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Summary
I want to touch on a few things for those who may not know: the first two CRTs were prepared by Mr. Stonkillerz. According to the initial plans, he was going to handle this CRT as well, but due to some commitments, I’ve taken over in his place.
Even though I know different topics might come up, please try to refrain from discussing anything outside this CRT. I’m aware that this one will spark a lot of debate, so the topic may easily get derailed. Let’s do our best to stick to the CRT subject as much as possible.
Star Forge (4-B, with stored power 3-B probably H3-A)
Even a small fragment of the Star Forge possessed the power to create entire galaxies.A prison on Belsavis, used by the Rakatan Infinite Empire to contain its most powerful prisoners, was built around a core reactor that, if destabilized, would emit waves "at lightspeed"—which, in Star Wars terminology, refers to propagation through hyperspace—capable of destroying the Belsavis system and many adjacent star systems.
It is essential to recognize that the Star Forge represents the zenith of Rakatan technological achievement, and all Rakatan devices, from weapons to fleets to planetary colonization mechanisms, operate upon a common foundation: the dark side of the Force. This same principle applies even to the technology found within this prison complex, such as the “Mother Machine”—a construct which, much like the Star Forge itself, operates as a fusion of advanced machinery and dark side energy.
Thus, it stands to reason that the Star Forge, at a bare minimum, is capable of outputting the same caliber of energy as the reactor within the Belsavis prison. Given that it is a structure vastly more important and iconic to the Rakatan civilization, there is no compelling rationale to suggest that the Rakatans would endow a relatively insignificant prison facility with a more potent energy core than they would the pride of their entire empire.(Calculation by Guruguru)
The Star Forge possessed infinite power and was regarded as an unstoppable superweapon.It also demonstrated infinite capacity for creation.This is a supporting source.
Dark Empire Sidious (1-C)
Force Storms are described as hyperspace wormholes that connect two points in space.Sidious himself declared that, through this power, he could unleash the dark side energies and even rend the very fabric of space.It has furthermore been stated that Force Storms tear space apart upon activation.This power has been described as capable of bending space-time and shattering the surface of an entire planet.More boldly still, it is affirmed that Force Storms consume all of space.
It is anticipated some may argue that the effects the storms have are merely environmental in nature, and therefore not indicative of Sidious's personal scale. Yet that assumption fails when actually analyzed, now let's see why these feats do scale to Sidious’s own power.
Dark Side users empower themselves through rage; their fury directly magnifies their strength.There exists a direct link between anger and bodily empowerment, a principle which The Book of the Sith also affirms.Rage empowers the individual's body.Sidious is the very embodiment of this doctrine—he channels the power of his hatred into the Force, amplifying his strength accordingly.
This connection between Force Storms and Sidious’s body is further emphasized in his duel against Luke as of Dark Empire. The aura flowing from his lightning, his blade, and the Force Storm itself all share a consistent visual manifestation—an aura that emanates through his body and surroundings, suggesting the very locus of this power resides in him. Wherever he channels the Force, that aspect of his being is strengthened—as can be seen here,and further illustrated in these panels.Sidious has become the center of all dark side powers—the nexus, the focal point, the vortex through which the dark side surges.Additional evidence supports this centrality.
Thus, it is evident that Palpatine should be rated 1-C by virtue of his use of Force Storms. These storms are not mere environmental destruction phenomena; they are hyperspace wormholes , tears in the continuum of space-time, it is not a matter of mundane spatial manipulation, nor simple environmental damage. And even if one were to insist upon such a view, it must be noted that this power scales directly to his physicality through Force augmentation.
The Sith tradition is clear: strong emotions —like anger and rage—directly fuels the Force. That same fuel enhances physical attributes for combat, such as in lightsaber dueling. Since the Force Storm is derived from pure hatred, and that same hatred augments the body, there is a shared source between his reality-warping sorcery and his martial ability. In short, they are different channels of the same power source. The Force aura Sidious emits , a swirling vortex of dark side energy that rends reality, is not distinct from the being himself—but is rather an extension of his will.
Additionally, Palpatine's durability via Force augmentation may also be rated at 1-C. Consider this: Luke Skywalker was able to survive exposure to a Force Storm and hyperspace. The very nature of hyperspace, in the Star Wars cosmology, is hostile to baryonic matter and is capable of shattering the minds of those who witness it. It is a higher-dimensional realm (7-D, as per the latest threads), making survival within it a great feat. Palpatine > Luke, thus the former should scale.
Debunking Possible Contentions
“Palpatine died to his own storm, so his durability could not possibly scale to it.”
This objection rests on a flawed assumption. The argument for 1-C durability concerns his Force-augmented state, not his base physical durability. During his death, it is explicitly stated that Luke and Leia severed his connection to the Force —rendering him powerless. One can't cite a depowered instance to refute feats attained while empowered.
“Palpatine can’t control his own storms.”
This is false. As the lore affirms, Sidious created and manipulated Force Storms with conscious intent. The fact that they are conjured and directed by his will invalidates this claim. He only lost control when he was cut off from the Dark Side by the combined force power of Luke, Leia and Anakin,as shown here
"Palpatine's Force Storms are just multi-continental or moon-level."
This claim misunderstands the distinction between Attack Potency and Destructive Capacity.
Destructive Capacity refers to the area physically affected, while Attack Potency denotes the amount of energy contained or channeled within the attack. Palpatine’s Force Storms are manifestations of his Dark Side energies, fueled by his emotions and directly manipulated through his will.
Palpatine does not just open wormholes,his pure rage can generate higher dimensional energies and open up destructive Hyperspace wormholes. These storms tear apart the very fabric of spacetime and threaten to annihilate all of space — refering to the spatial component of Hyperspace, which is six-dimensional in nature, as established in the past CRT.(CRT.(destruction of 6-D Hyperspace here).
Thus, the primary effect of a Force Storm occurs not in the 4D Realspace (where its visual destruction is limited), but in Hyperspace, the higher-dimensional continuum. Judging its potency solely by terrestrial destruction is a mischaracterization of its true scale.
Therefore, the claim is demonstrably invalid. Sidious’s Force Storms possess attack potency on a vastly higher-dimensional level, and their destructive range in Realspace is not all that matters to assess its capabilities.
Characters Who Should Scale to These Feats (Star Forge & Dark Empire Sidious)
Star Forge Scaling
During his final confrontation with Revan, Darth Malak drew power directly from the Star Forge. He fed upon its energies and maintained relativity with Revan's power. This demonstrates that Malak was actively channeling the power of the Star Forge during their battle. Given this, it is only reasonable to propose that Darth Malak, while amped, should be scaled to the full power of the Star Forge itself—particularly since he directly accessed its capabilities in combat.
Accordingly, characters presently rated at 4-B, ought to be reevaluated and placed at the Star Forge’s proposed tier with the same restriction imposed on it (3-B, possibly High 3-A with stored power). As for other characters who are not directly tied to this feat—such as Darth Vader, Darth Bane, or Darth Plagueis—it would be more appropriate to discuss their respective placements in the subsequent content revision threads.
Dark Empire Sidious Scaling
In Dark Empire, Luke Skywalker ultimately succeeds in defeating Emperor Palpatine in direct combat. However, it is crucial to acknowledge that he was aided by Leia Organa and her infant son during this confrontation.Leia's contribution empowered Luke, lending him the necessary strength to win.Even so, the audio drama clearly indicates that their duel lasted approximately thirty seconds,during which Luke was able to withstand and counteract the full power of Palpatine, who had become a nexus of dark side power and wielded Force Storms capable of tearing through space-time itself, as described above.
It would be improper to claim that Luke was definitively superior to Sidious, but given his performance and survival in such a battle, it is reasonable to scale him to Palpatine’s level during Dark Empire—while amped by Leia and the infant's harmonized force energies.
On the Nature of Force Storms
It should also, again, be emphasized that the Force Storms wielded by Palpatine are not mere environmental effects. These phenomena operate through hyperspace, a higher-dimensional universe,explicitly described as seven-dimensional, which dissolves baryonic (i.e., normal, lower-dimensional) matter upon contact.
Consequently, surviving or channeling hyperspace phenomena—such as Force Storms—entails resilience to existence erasure (on a body level) and exposure to energies of a higher-dimensional order (again, 7-D). This further solidifies that characters who contend with this, such as Amped-Luke during the Dark Empire events, should be scaled accordingly.
I want to touch on a few things for those who may not know: the first two CRTs were prepared by Mr. Stonkillerz. According to the initial plans, he was going to handle this CRT as well, but due to some commitments, I’ve taken over in his place.
Even though I know different topics might come up, please try to refrain from discussing anything outside this CRT. I’m aware that this one will spark a lot of debate, so the topic may easily get derailed. Let’s do our best to stick to the CRT subject as much as possible.
Star Forge (4-B, with stored power 3-B probably H3-A)
Even a small fragment of the Star Forge possessed the power to create entire galaxies.A prison on Belsavis, used by the Rakatan Infinite Empire to contain its most powerful prisoners, was built around a core reactor that, if destabilized, would emit waves "at lightspeed"—which, in Star Wars terminology, refers to propagation through hyperspace—capable of destroying the Belsavis system and many adjacent star systems.
It is essential to recognize that the Star Forge represents the zenith of Rakatan technological achievement, and all Rakatan devices, from weapons to fleets to planetary colonization mechanisms, operate upon a common foundation: the dark side of the Force. This same principle applies even to the technology found within this prison complex, such as the “Mother Machine”—a construct which, much like the Star Forge itself, operates as a fusion of advanced machinery and dark side energy.
Thus, it stands to reason that the Star Forge, at a bare minimum, is capable of outputting the same caliber of energy as the reactor within the Belsavis prison. Given that it is a structure vastly more important and iconic to the Rakatan civilization, there is no compelling rationale to suggest that the Rakatans would endow a relatively insignificant prison facility with a more potent energy core than they would the pride of their entire empire.(Calculation by Guruguru)
The Star Forge possessed infinite power and was regarded as an unstoppable superweapon.It also demonstrated infinite capacity for creation.This is a supporting source.
Dark Empire Sidious (1-C)
Force Storms are described as hyperspace wormholes that connect two points in space.Sidious himself declared that, through this power, he could unleash the dark side energies and even rend the very fabric of space.It has furthermore been stated that Force Storms tear space apart upon activation.This power has been described as capable of bending space-time and shattering the surface of an entire planet.More boldly still, it is affirmed that Force Storms consume all of space.
It is anticipated some may argue that the effects the storms have are merely environmental in nature, and therefore not indicative of Sidious's personal scale. Yet that assumption fails when actually analyzed, now let's see why these feats do scale to Sidious’s own power.
Dark Side users empower themselves through rage; their fury directly magnifies their strength.There exists a direct link between anger and bodily empowerment, a principle which The Book of the Sith also affirms.Rage empowers the individual's body.Sidious is the very embodiment of this doctrine—he channels the power of his hatred into the Force, amplifying his strength accordingly.
This connection between Force Storms and Sidious’s body is further emphasized in his duel against Luke as of Dark Empire. The aura flowing from his lightning, his blade, and the Force Storm itself all share a consistent visual manifestation—an aura that emanates through his body and surroundings, suggesting the very locus of this power resides in him. Wherever he channels the Force, that aspect of his being is strengthened—as can be seen here,and further illustrated in these panels.Sidious has become the center of all dark side powers—the nexus, the focal point, the vortex through which the dark side surges.Additional evidence supports this centrality.
Thus, it is evident that Palpatine should be rated 1-C by virtue of his use of Force Storms. These storms are not mere environmental destruction phenomena; they are hyperspace wormholes , tears in the continuum of space-time, it is not a matter of mundane spatial manipulation, nor simple environmental damage. And even if one were to insist upon such a view, it must be noted that this power scales directly to his physicality through Force augmentation.
The Sith tradition is clear: strong emotions —like anger and rage—directly fuels the Force. That same fuel enhances physical attributes for combat, such as in lightsaber dueling. Since the Force Storm is derived from pure hatred, and that same hatred augments the body, there is a shared source between his reality-warping sorcery and his martial ability. In short, they are different channels of the same power source. The Force aura Sidious emits , a swirling vortex of dark side energy that rends reality, is not distinct from the being himself—but is rather an extension of his will.
Additionally, Palpatine's durability via Force augmentation may also be rated at 1-C. Consider this: Luke Skywalker was able to survive exposure to a Force Storm and hyperspace. The very nature of hyperspace, in the Star Wars cosmology, is hostile to baryonic matter and is capable of shattering the minds of those who witness it. It is a higher-dimensional realm (7-D, as per the latest threads), making survival within it a great feat. Palpatine > Luke, thus the former should scale.
Debunking Possible Contentions
“Palpatine died to his own storm, so his durability could not possibly scale to it.”
This objection rests on a flawed assumption. The argument for 1-C durability concerns his Force-augmented state, not his base physical durability. During his death, it is explicitly stated that Luke and Leia severed his connection to the Force —rendering him powerless. One can't cite a depowered instance to refute feats attained while empowered.
“Palpatine can’t control his own storms.”
This is false. As the lore affirms, Sidious created and manipulated Force Storms with conscious intent. The fact that they are conjured and directed by his will invalidates this claim. He only lost control when he was cut off from the Dark Side by the combined force power of Luke, Leia and Anakin,as shown here
"Palpatine's Force Storms are just multi-continental or moon-level."
This claim misunderstands the distinction between Attack Potency and Destructive Capacity.
Destructive Capacity refers to the area physically affected, while Attack Potency denotes the amount of energy contained or channeled within the attack. Palpatine’s Force Storms are manifestations of his Dark Side energies, fueled by his emotions and directly manipulated through his will.
Palpatine does not just open wormholes,his pure rage can generate higher dimensional energies and open up destructive Hyperspace wormholes. These storms tear apart the very fabric of spacetime and threaten to annihilate all of space — refering to the spatial component of Hyperspace, which is six-dimensional in nature, as established in the past CRT.(CRT.(destruction of 6-D Hyperspace here).
Thus, the primary effect of a Force Storm occurs not in the 4D Realspace (where its visual destruction is limited), but in Hyperspace, the higher-dimensional continuum. Judging its potency solely by terrestrial destruction is a mischaracterization of its true scale.
Therefore, the claim is demonstrably invalid. Sidious’s Force Storms possess attack potency on a vastly higher-dimensional level, and their destructive range in Realspace is not all that matters to assess its capabilities.
Characters Who Should Scale to These Feats (Star Forge & Dark Empire Sidious)
Star Forge Scaling
During his final confrontation with Revan, Darth Malak drew power directly from the Star Forge. He fed upon its energies and maintained relativity with Revan's power. This demonstrates that Malak was actively channeling the power of the Star Forge during their battle. Given this, it is only reasonable to propose that Darth Malak, while amped, should be scaled to the full power of the Star Forge itself—particularly since he directly accessed its capabilities in combat.
Accordingly, characters presently rated at 4-B, ought to be reevaluated and placed at the Star Forge’s proposed tier with the same restriction imposed on it (3-B, possibly High 3-A with stored power). As for other characters who are not directly tied to this feat—such as Darth Vader, Darth Bane, or Darth Plagueis—it would be more appropriate to discuss their respective placements in the subsequent content revision threads.
Dark Empire Sidious Scaling
In Dark Empire, Luke Skywalker ultimately succeeds in defeating Emperor Palpatine in direct combat. However, it is crucial to acknowledge that he was aided by Leia Organa and her infant son during this confrontation.Leia's contribution empowered Luke, lending him the necessary strength to win.Even so, the audio drama clearly indicates that their duel lasted approximately thirty seconds,during which Luke was able to withstand and counteract the full power of Palpatine, who had become a nexus of dark side power and wielded Force Storms capable of tearing through space-time itself, as described above.
It would be improper to claim that Luke was definitively superior to Sidious, but given his performance and survival in such a battle, it is reasonable to scale him to Palpatine’s level during Dark Empire—while amped by Leia and the infant's harmonized force energies.
On the Nature of Force Storms
It should also, again, be emphasized that the Force Storms wielded by Palpatine are not mere environmental effects. These phenomena operate through hyperspace, a higher-dimensional universe,explicitly described as seven-dimensional, which dissolves baryonic (i.e., normal, lower-dimensional) matter upon contact.
Consequently, surviving or channeling hyperspace phenomena—such as Force Storms—entails resilience to existence erasure (on a body level) and exposure to energies of a higher-dimensional order (again, 7-D). This further solidifies that characters who contend with this, such as Amped-Luke during the Dark Empire events, should be scaled accordingly.
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