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My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

TheRustyOne said:
How does this work in versus thread?

Doesn't the Omnitrix protect Ben from actually dying? This thing has Low-Godly regeneration.

Does defeating the alien count if you force him to change into a different one? Assuming you're using the alien profile.
Click to expand...
The Omnitrix is also made of Plotium, because that thing is ungodly durable. Like, the only thing I can think of that actually damaged the Omnitrix...was the Omnitrix. Specifically, when Ben made it Self-Destruct. It's survived the Chronosapien Time Bomb, Charmcaster's Machine, and has even facetanked The Big Bang. Now, that doesn't mean it's resistant to Decay, because physical durability and what Decay inflicts upon you are two completely different things, but what I am saying is the Omnitrix probably would be immune to Decay, because it's literally survived literal bullshit to the face and come out unscathed.

Ignore that one time Ben removed the faceplate from the Prototype with an ordinary screwdriver.

I bring that up because not ONLY does Ben get turned into the Alien he needs to survive (or at least, the Complete Omnitrix does this, the Prototype's ability to do this is unclear), but it's capable of using Ben's transformations as extra lives to perserve him, such as when it brought back Ben from just the device itself and turned him into Diamondhead (The Recalibrated Omnitrix) against Vilgax, or when Ultimate Way Big was hit with a Time Ray by Eon (The Ultimatrix).

Not only would Shigaraki have to deal with "Perfect Counter" alien transformations, but when he does kill Ben he'll have to fight again and again. Victory might still be possible for him, though, because Kid Ben lacks access to a lot of his abilities. Plus, a lot of these features are displayed by later iterations, so assuming they apply to the Original Prototype could be seen as a stretch. Not to mention that there isn't exactly an "Anti-Decay" Alien within there that Ben has access to. The closest is Diamondhead, and that wasn't based on decay logic, but TIME logic. Diamonds don't decay and erode into dust with age, so suddenly blasted with a one million years of time ray doesn't affect Diamondhead. Because he can't age. And, again, just because the Omnitrix is absurdly resistant doesn't make it immune to Decay, it just makes it obscenely difficult to harm and makes the logistics of Decay working on it...somewhat questionable.
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Maybe Ben Tennyson? His Original Series aliens are only slightly above Complete Shigaraki in terms of physical stats when you use the High 6-A end (5.71 Exatons). I feel like Shiggy would be too haxed for Ben, but idk I’m back in a Ben 10 phase rn so he was my first thought.
Click to expand...
Also shouldn't Shigaraki just copy or take Ben's aliens powers

I mean their powers are biological as its from their DNA and Shigaraki could do what Kevin did to the Omnitrix
 
Also shouldn't Shigaraki's power absorbing be one layer as he can bypass OFA's resistance to power absorbing
 
Spinoirr said:
Also shouldn't Shigaraki just copy or take Ben's aliens powers

I mean their powers are biological as its from their DNA and Shigaraki could do what Kevin did to the Omnitrix
Click to expand...
Not really? Quirks are biological and genetic, but they work under the pre-conception that he's stealing from another Human. Specifically a superpowered Human. There's a difference between taking the Quirk Factor/Genetics from another person and trying to just take everything an alien is.

Like, Four-Arms having four arms isn't a superpower. It's just basic evolutionary ability in the same way you or I have two arms. It's essentially like trying to steal Shigaraki's Surgery Buffs, which isn't possible because those aren't superpower additions to his physical form, that's just the basic state of his physical form now.

I make that distinction because I'm 100% certain AFO could steal Quirks from Nedzu, Monster Cat, or Queen Bee. So if he found a Tetramand with a Quirk, sure. But he couldn't steal being a Tetramand. Because that's not a power. The Tetramand is Quirkless. It just happens that Tetramands are four armed red skinned wrestler people who WE would interpret being superpowered, because as squishy, fragile, weak humans, basically everything is a superpower.
 
I was gonna say Victor from Undead Unluck but that's a never ending match. And Jin Woo doesn't have a profile here for some reason. Eh I can't think of anything that isn't a stomp on both sides.
 
TheRustyOne said:
How does this work in versus thread?

Doesn't the Omnitrix protect Ben from actually dying? This thing has Low-Godly regeneration.
Click to expand...
Iirc the most we see the prototype Omnitrix do itself is release an energy surge when someone tried to forcefully take it off. However I just realised checking the profile that the Low-Godly regen comes from a moment where he has the Ultimatrix, which is way worse than the Omnitrix when it comes to security and failsafes so I presume the prototype Omnitrix would be the same (also the current profile seems to composite every version of the device into one, so even if that wasn’t the case that’s still what the profile says lol). EDIT: I do wonder if Decay could affect Ben’s soul, as the Ultimatrix couldn’t stop Charmcaster from forcefully removing it from him despite restoring his body at the same time.

Also idk how the Omnitrix’s failsafe would react to Decay, but I would presume it would work more like the scene used to justify Low-Godly (where he got to keep Chromastone) than being aged by Eon (where he temporarily lost his transformations), so simply destroying all of Bens aliens might not be a win-con for Shiggy like I originally thought. Idk if I’m entirely right about that though.

And here I thought Ben might’ve had a rough chance against Shiggy even with Master Control, gotta love how BS that watch is

I wonder if any other Original Series character would be a fair matchup for Shiggy, but with his wide array of abilities and most characters’ relative lack thereof there’s probably no fair fight. Maybe Malware or Kevin 11, but that’s the best I can think of outside of Ben himself. Oh well.

TheRustyOne said:
Does defeating the alien count if you force him to change into a different one? Assuming you're using the alien profile.
Click to expand...
I think it depends? I remember seeing matchups like “Ben Tennyson (No Alien X/Way Big/Atomix) vs [X]”, so I imagine the standard assumption is that the fight continues until Ben can’t win with any given aliens. Idk how customisable it’s allowed to be though.

Spinoirr said:
Also shouldn't Shigaraki just copy or take Ben's aliens powers

I mean their powers are biological as its from their DNA and Shigaraki could do what Kevin did to the Omnitrix
Click to expand...
RedReaper616 said:
Not really? Quirks are biological and genetic, but they work under the pre-conception that he's stealing from another Human. Specifically a superpowered Human. There's a difference between taking the Quirk Factor/Genetics from another person and trying to just take everything an alien is.

Like, Four-Arms having four arms isn't a superpower. It's just basic evolutionary ability in the same way you or I have two arms. It's essentially like trying to steal Shigaraki's Surgery Buffs, which isn't possible because those aren't superpower additions to his physical form, that's just the basic state of his physical form now.

I make that distinction because I'm 100% certain AFO could steal Quirks from Nedzu, Monster Cat, or Queen Bee. So if he found a Tetramand with a Quirk, sure. But he couldn't steal being a Tetramand. Because that's not a power. The Tetramand is Quirkless. It just happens that Tetramands are four armed red skinned wrestler people who WE would interpret being superpowered, because as squishy, fragile, weak humans, basically everything is a superpower.
Click to expand...
Yeah I imagine AFO doesn’t work on the standard alien powers. He might be able to steal stuff from characters like Kevin, Darkstar or Clancy as their powers are more analogous to Quirks, but natural biological abilities that aliens normally have are probs a no-go.
 
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XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Alright, the new Death Battle makes me wanna make Shigaraki matches. Anyone got ideas? Don't care if it's Pre-Surgery or Post-Surgery.
Click to expand...
Nagato from Naruto Series, Black Star from Soul Eater, Canon Only Vader I think would make decent MU's for post-surgery Shiggy, not sure about pre-sugery. I'd love to see a Shiggy match made (please do tag me if you do make one) so I'll throw some ideas around. Speed equalized or unequalized whichever'll will make sense.
 
Did this. Not entirely sure if Shiggy would just immediately stomp due to decay, so went with Izuku to be safe.

vsbattles.com

Cecilus Segmunt vs. Izuku Midoriya (Deku) (0-0-0)

I desire chaos... Tbh, I kinda wanted to do a Reinhard vs Shiggy match-up due to his recent death battle victory but that's an obvious stomp, so... Here's the next best thing. Speed is equal Both are High 6-A but anything higher is restricted Both are bloodlusted Battlefield: The wastelands...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Did this. Not entirely sure if Shiggy would just immediately stomp due to decay, so went with Izuku to be safe.

vsbattles.com

Cecilus Segmunt vs. Izuku Midoriya (Deku) (0-0-0)

I desire chaos... Tbh, I kinda wanted to do a Reinhard vs Shiggy match-up due to his recent death battle victory but that's an obvious stomp, so... Here's the next best thing. Speed is equal Both are High 6-A but anything higher is restricted Both are bloodlusted Battlefield: The wastelands...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Click to expand...
Ngl you might've accidentally caused an even bigger stomp with that matchup 😭
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
or an entirely different re zero character maybe lol
Click to expand...
The only other High 6-A Re:Zero characters is Satella (who doesn't have any actual feats and is immortal), Reinhard (who is immortal and first move is EE CM2 kilometer AoE attack) and Reid (who is the same as Reinhard sans the immortality). It is what it is, I suppose. Maybe some MHA might be able to figure out smth viable for Izuku, if not, ig I'll request the thread to be closed.
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
vsbattles.com

Izuku Midoriya (Deku) Vs Asta (MHA vs Black Clover) [8-1-0] (GRACE)

Izuku Midoriya (Final Act) Vs Asta (Post-Timeskip) Final War Arc Deku will be used Attack Potency: 2.542 Exatons, 12.71 Exatons with Fa Jin Durability: 2.542 Exatons Lifting Strength: Class P Speed: 0.6227c Spade Kingdom Raid Arc Asta will be used Attack Potency: 1.782 Exatons Durability...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

Would love to see them run it back. Also first mha matchup after the upgrade.
Click to expand...
Cant believe Deku finally won an Asta matchup without getting completely stomped like the past several matchups against him. Bonus: it was the strongest version of post time skip asta.
 
Ok, I was late to the recent MHA revision where it was decided that Deku's final smash against Shigaraki that split the clouds on a continental level was at the level of a weakened All Might and not Prime All Might. Since it's closed and I can't make any comments, I've decided to make my case for why that rationale makes very little sense and why the previous Large Country level+ should be returned.

The main argument that was presented there was that because Deku was only using the embers of OFA and that he'd already been exhausted from the battle, that made him x60 weaker. However, we have seen in several instances that both fatigue and having the embers of OFA don't inherently mean that your power is drastically weakened. During All Might's fight with the U.S.J. Nomu, he'd already exhausted his hero form and was going beyond his time limit. Not only that, but the Nomu inadvertently grabbed All Might's weak spot which further damaged him. But despite that, All Might was still capable of fighting beyond his body's limits and punching the Nomu at power greater than his 100%. On this wiki, we literally have it listed that All Might's AP is higher with Plus Ultra. This was all done with the embers of OFA that he'd already carried for at least a week or two, I believe.

Then there's Deku's fight with Nine. Like his final battle with AFO/Shigaraki, Deku just lost OFA and had it transferred to Bakugo, leaving only the embers. Like the final battle, Deku was also exhausted and damaged from his battle with Nine. But despite that, his performance against Nine wasn't impaired, and he fought using 100% Full Cowl to the fullest of his abilities.

All these instances demonstrate that Deku and other users of OFA were capable of fighting at 100% of OFA's capacity even when they were exhausted or when they lost the original Quirk and were only left with embers. So to suddenly try and argue that Deku was at the level of Prime All Might during the final battle with Shigaraki, but due to losing OFA, he immediately becomes x60 weaker is an immense stretch that isn't backed up by nearly enough evidence. If there were some off-handed comment by Deku saying, "Even with the embers of OFA and a fraction of my power, my punch managed to part clouds all the way in the United State," then I'd be more inclined to agree with the change. But given the limited evidence, there's not enough justification to argue Deku experienced such a massive drop in power by being left with only the embers of OFA.
 
CastoriceTheFifth said:
Have you fully read the thread or Rusty’s arguments?
Click to expand...
Yeah, I read the full thread and the arguments. But the reasoning given still doesn't justify assuming that Deku was weakened to SUCH a massive extent. There's also other factors to consider. Deku's arms were completely restored to their original strength, basically as good as new. Even if Deku's body was massively weakened, that would apply to his main body and his legs which would decrease his speed. But that doesn't automatically correlate to his strength being weakened. Deku himself said that his final punch was done with a little more power than what All Might could deliver, suggesting that his power when delivering the final blow was basically close to Prime All Might or slightly greater. That's why I'm against the x60 upgrade to the characters and the feat.
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
Snip
Click to expand...
Again, have you actually read the thread or read Rusty’s argument? It really seems like you didn’t all because you said this.
“Deku himself said that his final punch was done with a little more power than what All Might could deliver, suggesting that his power when delivering the final blow was basically close to Prime All Might or slightly greater.”

Please read the thread. All your concerns are already answered and addressed there, especially that Deku statement.

Literally half of the thread was Rusty explaining what that Deku statement is due to numerous people disagreeing due to misunderstanding that statement.

Edit: Back to their original strength?? My dude Eri’s quirk isn’t healing or regeneration. It’s rewind.
10-848.jpg
 
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CastoriceTheFifth said:
Again, have you actually read the thread or read Rusty’s argument? It really seems like you didn’t all because you said this.
“Deku himself said that his final punch was done with a little more power than what All Might could deliver, suggesting that his power when delivering the final blow was basically close to Prime All Might or slightly greater.”

Please read the thread. All your concerns are already answered and addressed there, especially that Deku statement.

Literally half of the thread was Rusty explaining what that Deku statement is due to numerous people disagreeing due to misunderstanding that statement.

Edit: Back to their original strength?? My dude Eri’s quirk isn’t healing or regeneration. It’s rewind.
10-848.jpg
Click to expand...
Even if Deku's statement about OFA's power isn't representative of how much power Deku had remaining, that doesn't prove that Deku was weakened to such a drastic extent that he's x60 weaker. Some supporting arguments made were that Deku was weak enough that Kurogiri intercepted him. But that isn't a very good justification: during the U.S.J., Kurogiri was capable of reacting to All Might's suplex against the Nomu and made a portal before All Might could finish the suplex. But All Might wasn't so drastically weakened at that point in the battle, and we don't scale Kurogiri to All Might's speed based on that. As I already said before, OFA users can use the Quirk to go past their limit and exert greater strength regardless of exhaustion, as proven when All Might fought U.S.J. Nomu and when Deku overcharged his Quirk against Muscular to defeat him.

And as for the argument of "Eri's Quirk isn't regeneration or healing, it's just Rewind," those differences are irrelevant given they achieve the same result. Though after re-reading the chapters, I forgot that the time rewinded wasn't excessively long, and Deku's arms weren't exactly restored to as good as new. I'll concede that point, but I still insist that they were healed enough that they were in better condition compared to the rest of his body at that moment.
 
I've figured out how to make Izuku's percentage linear, and everyone will scale as per usual.

Twin Impact Scaling = 1.13 Petatons of TNT (Continent level)

5% = 2.11 Petatons of TNT (Continent level)

8% = 3.39 Petatons of TNT (Continent level+)

10% = 4.23 Petatons of TNT (Continent level+)

15% = 6.35 Petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent level)

20% = 8.47 Petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent level)

30% = 12.71 Petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent level)

45% = 19.07 Petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent level)

100% = 42.37 Petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent level)

Have you ever seen anything more revolting? It's pure perfection.
 
TheRustyOne said:
I've figured out how to make Izuku's percentage linear, and everyone will scale as per usual.

Twin Impact Scaling = 1.13 Petatons of TNT (Continent level)

5% = 2.11 Petatons of TNT (Continent level)

8% = 3.39 Petatons of TNT (Continent level+)

10% = 4.23 Petatons of TNT (Continent level+)

15% = 6.35 Petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent level)

20% = 8.47 Petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent level)

30% = 12.71 Petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent level)

45% = 19.07 Petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent level)

100% = 42.37 Petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent level)

Have you ever seen anything more revolting? It's pure perfection.
Click to expand...
Kota water spash is one shotting Gojo😭😭
 
TheRustyOne said:
I've figured out how to make Izuku's percentage linear, and everyone will scale as per usual.

Twin Impact Scaling = 1.13 Petatons of TNT (Continent level)

5% = 2.11 Petatons of TNT (Continent level)

8% = 3.39 Petatons of TNT (Continent level+)

10% = 4.23 Petatons of TNT (Continent level+)

15% = 6.35 Petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent level)

20% = 8.47 Petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent level)

30% = 12.71 Petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent level)

45% = 19.07 Petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent level)

100% = 42.37 Petatons of TNT (Multi-Continent level)

Have you ever seen anything more revolting? It's pure perfection.
Click to expand...
Did you factor in that the percentages are on top of his base, so you have to subtract his base value, divide the remainder, and add the base value back?
 
SlendVeny said:
Did you factor in that the percentages are on top of his base, so you have to subtract his base value, divide the remainder, and add the base value back?
Click to expand...
His base scales to the percentages, so there's no way to do that. It would create infinite circular scaling. Twin Impact is his base here.
 
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