Pokemon rematch revisions

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Forgive me for using Bulbapedia, but this is a simple revision and without it, to find footage of every battle that entails this CRT might legitimately take years.

Our Gym Leader profiles are extremely outdated, and to a lesser extent, this goes for Elite Four and Champions too, for all the same reasons.

The use of "Gens" in our profiles​

A lot of our profiles for early Gym Leaders have Keys that go "Gen 1 | Gen 2 | Gen 5".

The thing is, those aren't the actual gens we're dealing with. FireRed and LeafGreen has completely replaced Red and Blue in the canon of the games, and HGSS has done the same to Gold and Silver. This was before any of the multiverse stuff happened in Pokemon, and in fact doesn't even have any very vague statements about Mega Evolution not existing, so these games can't be argued to just be "different timelines in the multiverse".
Secondly, "Gen" is an extremely unprofessional term, given it's a fan term only and many of them have more than one fight in a "Gen" and automatically dismisses side games which fit under the blanket of the term "Gens". We should be abbreviating the games that they're from, like FRLG or HGSS (as some people might not even know what games the "Gen" entails).

FRLG changes​

The reason why this matters is a little thing called "postgame fights". Gym Leaders in FRLG do not have postgame fights, but Elite Four members and Blue do, which makes them stronger than Blue was when he became League Champion. Hence, they should all get a 6-C Key for their Rematch, Blue himself an At least 6-C. (While levels are not a perfect means of scaling from Pokemon to Pokemon, this is already how we judge the physicals of virtually every Rival character, much less Gym Leader, in the verse, outside of "The player character must've required significant effort since I did in my playthrough".)

HGSS changes​

HGSS has postgame fights for everyone, however. Johto Gym Leaders in their refight are about as strong as League Champion Lance was (6-B) while rematch Kanto Gym Leaders are even stronger. Supporting this is the statement that Kanto Gym Leaders are as strong as any in Johto ("Hmm? You're not collecting Kanto Gym Badges? The Gym Leaders in Kanto are as tough as any you battled in Johto. I recommend that you challenge them."). Refought Elite Four members are close to how strong Mewtwo and even Rayquaza are in the game (5-B), and Lance's Dragonite is straight up stronger than them (At least 5-B).


Ideally, their Keys should look like "FRLG | FRLG rematch | HGSS | HGSS rematch | B2W2". Gym Leader Keys would look the same but without the FRLG rematch. Our Johto profiles should get the same but without FRLG entirely.

Sinnoh changes​

Literally only Candice's page does this, but whoever made it forgot about the Battleground in Pokemon Platinum, in which Gym Leaders can appear, and she is portrayed stronger than members of the Sinnoh Elite Four, giving her a 2-B, possibly 2-A Key.
Cynthia should also get Keys for her post-Stark Mountain rematch, her appearance in Black and White, her other appearance in B2W2, and obviously her portrayal in USUM in which she battles Elio and also reveals she has Mega Evolution, though all of these would just be higher degrees of 2-B, possibly 2-A.

The Hell that is quantifying the Kalos refights​

Gym Leaders​

The Kalos Gym Leaders, Elite Four, and Champion don't technically have formal "refights", instead they show up again in the Battle Chateau, and in there they also have a rematch. In the Battle Chateau, all Gym Leaders are put at level 40, regardless of where they were at before. ...Don't ask me why they made it like this. In any case, this makes everybody about as strong as Valerie's Gym Team (High 7-A)... except for the fact that Writs exist. In X and Y, Black Writs tell incoming Trainers that you want to fight them so seriously that they're practically bloodlusted. Under such a Writ, instead of Level 40, everyone is rendered stronger than Wulfric's Gym Team, rendering serious Gym Leaders At least High 7-A. The rematches in the Battle Chateau render the Gym Leaders just weaker than Wulfric, but their rematch versions can be summoned by the Black Writ too. While rematching under the Black Writ, they are stronger than Diantha's base Champion team (At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A).

Elite Four​

Elite Four Members do not have a Battle Chateau rematch, and also in their base Battle Chateau fight they get WEAKER than they normally are. I guess in their base fight they're just really casual? However, they can come under the effects of Writs as well, under the Black Writ being even higher above Base Diantha than the Gym Leaders are (also At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A).

Diantha​

She does not have a Battle Chateau rematch, and also gets weaker in her base appearance, but under a Black Writ she has the highest leveled Pokemon in the game. More than enough for another At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A Key.

Keep in mind, we already treat rematches like this on the site, with even Youngster Joey scaling on Lance's level in his third rematch.

Everything that should be changed​

• The "Gen 1 | Gen 2 | Gen 5" dialogue changed to "FRLG | HGSS | B2W2"
• The Kanto Elite Four gets a 6-C Key reflecting their postgame rematch in FRLG
• The HGSS Gym Leaders, Elite Four, and Champion receive a 6-B, 5-B, and At Least 5-B, respectively, Key reflecting their postgame rematch in HGSS
• Candice gets a 2-B, possibly 2-A Battleground Key
• Cynthia gets a Post-Stark Mountain Key, a BW Key, a B2W2 Key, and a USUM Key
• The Kalos Gym Leaders all get 2 Battle Chateau Keys; the first one High 7-A and the second one At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A.
• The Kalos Elite Four gets a Battle Chateau Key, also At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A
• Diantha gets a far stronger At least 3-C, possibly High 3-A Key.

 

[Hasty12345]

Level 20 pokemon being tier 7 whilst level 60 pokemon being 3-C possibly high 3-A is hilarious.

 

[henryzx900ruly]

You know what, as also the hero of pokemon. I think I agree with these changes But i think the MASSIVE pokemon crt is still ongoing so.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

You know what, as also the hero of pokemon. I think I agree with these changes But i think the MASSIVE pokemon crt is still ongoing so.

The canon split was undone by now, so I think this is actually the biggest one right now.

 

[henryzx900ruly]

The canon split was undone by now, so I think this is actually the biggest one right now.

True that

 

[XitSign]

Level 20 pokemon being tier 7 whilst level 60 pokemon being 3-C possibly high 3-A is hilarious.

Pokemon levels are complete and utter nonsense.

 

[Hasty12345]

Pokemon levels are complete and utter nonsense.

So is scaling everyone who battles the MC to those ratings. Makes Cyrus and CT a complete non threat when every trainer after you face after the fact are considered “harder”.

 

[XitSign]

So is scaling everyone who battles the MC to those ratings. Makes Cyrus and CT a complete non threat when every trainer after you face after the fact are considered “harder”.

I mean, is it really?

I have no opinion on the thread and all the decisions of it yet, or what my own opinions are, but character rematching and battling this MC who engages with a plot that's world-changing levels of stacks making them at least downscale at least makes SOME sense to me. Especially since they still lose, just put up a fight.

Not a vote yet, there's a lot I wanna review, but don't think this makes any stakes 'non threats'.

 

[Hasty12345]

I mean, is it really?

Yes. The fact I can canonically train a metapod to level 100 and use harden to resist 2-A attacks is stupid no matter how valid it may or may not be.

 

[henryzx900ruly]

Yes. The fact I can canonically train a metapod to level 100 and use harden to resist 2-A attacks is stupid no matter how valid it may or may not be.

It's stupid yes but on vsbw if something is both valid and stupid we accept it because it's the validity and soundness which is what we want.

 

[Hasty12345]

It's stupid yes but on vsbw if something is both valid and stupid we accept it because it's the validity and soundness which is what we want.

At what point do we start considering outliers?

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

At what point do we start considering outliers?

Probably Wild Pokemon? Here it’s very obvious the intent was for the Trainers to have gotten massively stronger, but it would make no sense for Legendaries to lose a 1v1 against a Wild Pokemon (though they’d still have trouble against Monster Houses, etc)

 

[Hasty12345]

Probably Wild Pokemon? Here it’s very obvious the intent was for the Trainers to have gotten massively stronger, but it would make no sense for Legendaries to lose a 1v1 against a Wild Pokemon (though they’d still have trouble against Monster Houses, etc)

The more and more I think about this the more absurd it gets. Not withstanding the games' limitations, the anime and manga make legendries total jobbers and are clearly not depicted as 2-A.

It makes far more sense the avatar forms of the CT are varied in power than it does to have anyone above Cyrus having multiversal pokemon due to a human making them cut down trees as opposed to wild pokemon simply not.

 

[henryzx900ruly]

The more and more I think about this the more absurd it gets. Not withstanding the games' limitations, the anime and manga make legendries total jobbers and are clearly not depicted as 2-A.

It makes far more sense the avatar forms of the CT are varied in power than it does to have anyone above Cyrus having multiversal pokemon due to a human making them cut down trees as opposed to wild pokemon simply not.

Jobber? Is bro from tuskcord.
Also while it does become absurd, we do have to realize when validity regions supreme

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

The more and more I think about this the more absurd it gets. Not withstanding the games' limitations, the anime and manga make legendries total jobbers and are clearly not depicted as 2-A.

It makes far more sense the avatar forms of the CT are varied in power than it does to have anyone above Cyrus having multiversal pokemon due to a human making them cut down trees as opposed to wild pokemon simply not.

I mean, yeah, the Creation Trio is almost never portrayed as OP as we have them on this site, but we still have them as that high.

 

[Hasty12345]

Also while it does become absurd, we do have to realize when validity regions supreme

Like 2-A pokemon unable to destroy a pokemon stadium

 

[henryzx900ruly]

Like 2-A pokemon unable to destroy a pokemon stadium

Bro doesn't know about AP

 

[Hasty12345]

Bro doesn't know about AP

Bro does know about AP

But AP isn't a catch-all counter to not having any destructive capacity.

 

[XitSign]

I highly disagree here, especially as the Creation Trio and Legendaries have become more and more frequently used in main games, make more appearances in side games and secondary material, and we see them in the anime frequently, the argument of AP and DC seems as important as ever.

'Unable' to destroy a Pokemon Stadium? Or not practical for the games or anime to have stadiums destroyed every single time in a series where the core of the franchise is combat, especially between members.

The 'Varies' argument for the creation trio doesn't seem to have much in the way of actual support, just the vibe of it 'not feeling right' that such powerful members of the franchise's lore have and continue to make appearances, meaning more and more people either fight them, or are someone on the chain of people who fight them/catch them.

Especially since 'scaling' has a bad habit of always feeling like the gut reaction is everyone needs to keep upscaling, but in truth? Most of the characters probably downscale in some way, being in the ballpark of being able to fight characters who do these great accomplishments, but they still lose.

Stadiums not exploding just isn't doing for me personally, as is most reasons given. I think its just that major trainers are going to keep upscaling Legendary Feats the longer the franchise has gone on, and many of these Legendaries just keep appearing and reappearing, and its only going to keep homogenizing major characters having reasons to be on the scaling chains somewhere, especially when the franchise pushes very often that the MCs are inspiring characters to get stronger, train, to try to 'catch up with them' for that next rematch. Its frankly very central to what this franchise is about, and I'm finding myself swayed that as ridiculously high as the scaling will become, its probably going to have my support.

Again, still working over everything, I may have a few notes and additions to this CRT when I get the time, especially on keys. But I will support to core idea presented here, for now.

 

[Hasty12345]

2-A Draco Meteor (strongest dragon type attack) fails to create more than a dust cloud (twice)

This is not an AP vs DC issue, this is a problematic portrayal of a Pokémon's power.

Pokémon

For detailed information about this franchise, visit Bulbapedia or the Pokémon Wiki. Pokémon is a video game franchise owned by Nintendo and developed by Game Freak that made its first release on the Game Boy and has turned into one of the most successful video-game media franchises ever made by...

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Not a single feat in the verse outside the CT is anywhere near tier 2.

The idea "via training" a pokemon can go from island level to 2-A is frankly absurd when Trainers train on trees and often these wild pokemon. Who are around town level.

Saying that a trainer can simply train their mons beyond the creation trio because one character can beat a CT avatar (which in and of itself has nebulous scaling to their own feats which could be an expression of their hax) when training mostly consists of punching trees and beating town level pokemon is a blatant disregard for logic and consistency.

 

[XitSign]

What you've shown there is indeed a problematic portrayal...But still a DC related issue. This is going to need to be much much MUCH wider expanded than it simply being a pokemon issue if the evidence is going to be that the video game or the animator DIDN'T show the destruction once we hit a level of power, especially with where we draw that line if we're going to set it as a standard. Should it be Tier 2 that this is no longer acceptable? Or lower due to the scales of power even as high as Tier 8? Such a powerful move didn't just make a dust cloud, but there doesn't seem to even be a crater or even a disturbance in any of the background shots. How is that, by the same logic, acceptable for even Tier 8 or 7? My problem here is that this is such a frequent problem is so much fiction that it's going to be MUCH bigger than just a Pokemon CRT...

As for there being no other feats that are Tier 2, while that's true no other pokemon has a Tier 2 feat without scaling, we still have feats that WELL outpace the 'standard' for normal pokemon to the level of oneshotting so many times over, they essentially have the same problem. From Tier 6 feats that should oneshot average pokemon by multipliers that should be unrealistic, if not impossible, all the way up to the staggering Tier 3 difference.

Frankly, by the logic of what you're presenting here, we shouldn't be tolerating any trainer having ever beaten a major legendary in their plot. I'm struggling to put myself in your shoes and see the Island Kahunas or the player character having ever stood a chance against the Ultra Beasts, Lunala, Solgeleo, and Necrozma included. There's no amount of 'Punching Trees and fighting Tier 6s' that should be enough to clear distances for pokemon with Multi-continental or Tier 5 or Tier 3 feats either.

But...That's the nature of the genre, isn't it? Common meme is 'First mission save cat, last mission kill god', and the application of logic should say that certain methods of training just can't clear those kinds of gaps. But to me this is coming off as arguing from incredulity, and the expectation that the writers would anticipate just how insanely bumped up feats have become from pokemon game to pokemon game.

And again...You're doing exactly what my first post said. I don't think the correct answer here is 'Beyond the creation trio' the moment characters are being argued to scale to ANY major feat, but a consideration that a ballpark exists to TRY to win, and to put up a fight, but to not be strong enough still. Some sort of downscale is more likely in my eyes for a character who spends their time training to put up a fight, and does, but still loses to these major characters, rather than the major legendary suddenly being the bottom of the chain.

I maintain, I do not agree with where you're drawing your lines here, I am generally finding this acceptable, with my own caveats admittedly (will continue to work on it when I feel I have a full argument for everything)

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

So who actually agrees with the CRT being put into place?

 

[Hasty12345]

snip

To be clear, I think once you recognise the existence of outliers, the problems solve themselves.

The story presents the threat the main antagonists pose to the world is legitimate, so when there exists trainers second only to Arceus, the story completely breaks.

 

[XitSign]

So who actually agrees with the CRT being put into place?

Like posted above, I agree with the core idea, but I have a few concerns I want to review. Might have a counter proposal. No official vote yet.

 

[Banjo77]

we can call some staff member

 

[Lou_change]

The thing is, those aren't the actual gens we're dealing with. FireRed and LeafGreen has completely replaced Red and Blue in the canon of the games, and HGSS has done the same to Gold and Silver. This was before any of the multiverse stuff happened in Pokemon, and in fact doesn't even have any very vague statements about Mega Evolution not existing, so these games can't be argued to just be "different timelines in the multiverse".

1. Red's later appearances are based on Yellow aren't they.
2. Wasn't there that deleted tweet that said they were different universes.
3. What about brilliant diamond and shining pearl.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

1. Red's later appearances are based on Yellow aren't they.
2. Wasn't there that deleted tweet that said they were different universes.
3. What about brilliant diamond and shining pearl.

1. No, they weren't. Yellow was made to be more like the anime. Furthermore, Yellow's remakes, Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee, weren't in the game timeline at all.
2. That deleted tweet was about the timeline of the main games, which they clearly don't view as true anymore.
3. BDSP were remasters, not remakes, would conflict with Pokemon Platinum which is the definitive Sinnoh game, and were also terrible games.

 

[Lou_change]

No, they weren't. Yellow was made to be more like the anime. Furthermore, Yellow's remakes, Let's Go Pikachu and Let's Go Eevee, weren't in the game timeline at all.

The three starters and the Pikachu indicate it is based on Yellow

2. That deleted tweet was about the timeline of the main games, which they clearly don't view as true anymore.

That is bulbapedia's primary source for it's timeline explanation and we have a later statement implying they don't strictly follow the timeline

3. BDSP were remasters, not remakes, would conflict with Pokemon Platinum which is the definitive Sinnoh game, and were also terrible game

They are officially referred to as remakes and what about the other 2 third games you are trying to replace.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

The three starters and the Pikachu indicate it is based on Yellow

No, it doesn't. It literally shows him catching Pikachu in the wild in Pokemon Generations, and the HGSS guidebook directly implies HGSS is a sequel to FRLG.

That is bulbapedia's primary source for it's timeline explanation and we have a later statement implying they don't strictly follow the timeline

The games themselves explain most of that already.

They are officially referred to as remakes and what about the other 2 third games you are trying to replace.

"Remakes" imply they are adding content instead of taking it away and being a shit game. Pokemon Crystal has never been canon on this site and neither has Yellow.

 

[Lou_change]

No, it doesn't. It literally shows him catching Pikachu in the wild in Pokemon Generations, and the HGSS guidebook directly implies HGSS is a sequel to FRLG.

The whole team is based on Pokemon you either have to fight to complete the story (Snorlax) or Pokemon you are given (Pikachu, starter trio, Lapras, and originally Eevee)

The games themselves explain most of that already.

The games don't explain that the kanto and hoenn games are contemporary, the games contridict each other on whether the Johto or Sinnoh games take place first. Yet the fact Sabrina says she thinks she'll meet a strong trainer in three years referencing the gen 2 character and a younger Mina shows up means that the let's go games can't be part of the timeline. Why because a book written for gen one says porygon was made the year before Red's journey and the Alola games say Porygon was made 20 year's ago. Meanwhile the book also says they only discovered 151 Pokemon at the end of Red's journey but in firered you can find 386 pokemon. It isn't even necessarily the case Sabrina is actually referring the gen 2 character as she could simply be predicting another future event.

"Remakes" imply they are adding content instead of taking it away and being a shit game. Pokemon Crystal has never been canon on this site and neither has Yellow.

I mean they are still the new version why should they not get the same treatment being a bad game doesn't seem like a good counter argument in this context. Also I would like proof for crystal and yellow not being accepted by the site just anyone else saying something like that.

 

[Bobsican]

I disagree on decanonizing non-remake games from their remake counterparts, given the whole end-game plot of Omera Ruby and Alpha Sapphire is about there being an alternate world where the events of regular RSE took place. Additionally the connection RBY and GSE have to Sun and Moon onwards out of Bank would still apply to make them usable. Plus going otherwise would also raise even more inconsistencies if we take LGPE over FRLG or even Yellow.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I disagree on decanonizing non-remake games from their remake counterparts, given the whole end-game plot of Omera Ruby and Alpha Sapphire is about there being an alternate world where the events of regular RSE took place. Additionally the connection RBY and GSE have to Sun and Moon onwards out of Bank would still apply to make them usable. Plus going otherwise would also raise even more inconsistencies if we take LGPE over FRLG or even Yellow.

Not every single game will be fully decanonized just for having a remake. For example B2W2/Masters heavily implies the Emerald rematches happened. Masters also establishes Kris being a person that exists in tandem with Lyra, just not a main character.

The alternate world being RSE is headcanon. Zinnia just screamed about how a different universe might not even have Mega Evolution to protect themselves. They don't have a connection to Sun and Moon, they were just on Virtual Console on the 3DS. LGPE takes place in the GO timeline, so it wouldn't replace FRLG. I don't think this site has Yellow as canon anyways.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

The whole team is based on Pokemon you either have to fight to complete the story (Snorlax) or Pokemon you are given (Pikachu, starter trio, Lapras, and originally Eevee)

It seems like you think he's from Pokemon Yellow just from the fact he has the Starters. For example, there's a Route on the Pokewalker that gives you as many Torchics as you want.

The games don't explain that the kanto and hoenn games are contemporary, the games contridict each other on whether the Johto or Sinnoh games take place first. Yet the fact Sabrina says she thinks she'll meet a strong trainer in three years referencing the gen 2 character and a younger Mina shows up means that the let's go games can't be part of the timeline. Why because a book written for gen one says porygon was made the year before Red's journey and the Alola games say Porygon was made 20 year's ago. Meanwhile the book also says they only discovered 151 Pokemon at the end of Red's journey but in firered you can find 386 pokemon. It isn't even necessarily the case Sabrina is actually referring the gen 2 character as she could simply be predicting another future event.

The Let's Go games are part of the GO timeline, not the main game timeline. And ofc there are more Pokemon in FRLG than in Red and Blue.

I mean they are still the new version why should they not get the same treatment being a bad game doesn't seem like a good counter argument in this context. Also I would like proof for crystal and yellow not being accepted by the site just anyone else saying something like that.

It honestly doesn't really change anything feat-wise if it's canon or not, except what game the scans come from, and BDSP is really un-charming to look at. Yellow is just a mix between the normal games and the anime and even has stuff like Jessie and James in it. HGSS itself kinda retcons Crystal, but it's probably the closest one to canon since Kris is still a character in the verse according to Masters.

 

[Lou_change]

The alternate world being RSE is headcanon.

I am pretty sure that is the primary implication, but several things from RS are referred to as how things were roughly ten to eleven years ago.

LGPE takes place in the GO timeline, so it wouldn't replace FRLG.

counter point

It seems like you think he's from Pokemon Yellow just from the fact he has the Starters. For example, there's a Route on the Pokewalker that gives you as many Torchics as you want.

that is exclusive to HGSS

It honestly doesn't really change anything feat-wise if it's canon or not, except what game the scans come from, and BDSP is really un-charming to look at. Yellow is just a mix between the normal games and the anime and even has stuff like Jessie and James in it. HGSS itself kinda retcons Crystal, but it's probably the closest one to canon since Kris is still a character in the verse according to Masters.

My point is more that every game is technically canon for example pokemon transfer through games are referred to a traveling through time and space. Ash's frog and mouse show up in mainline games also characters having counterparts across worlds is pretty normal for the series.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I am pretty sure that is the primary implication, but several things from RS are referred to as how things were roughly ten to eleven years ago.

In the alternate timeline?

counter point

Gimmighoul doesn't even exist normally within Pokemon GO, you have to transfer it into it.

that is exclusive to HGSS

So's Ethan. And it doesn't mean he's from Emerald.

My point is more that every game is technically canon for example pokemon transfer through games are referred to a traveling through time and space. Ash's frog and mouse show up in mainline games also characters having counterparts across worlds is pretty normal for the series.

It's already well established that the games and anime are connected.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

From what I've read so far, the main premise of this thread isn't totally clear to me. Overall, for now, I say I lean towards agreeing with what Bobsican and some others have argued. In other words, leaning towards disagreeing.

Having said that, however, the one point I definitely 100% am against is the point of it being ridiculous for trainer Pokemon to be scaling to legendaries. First things first, I saw back and forth discussing about the AP/DC argument brought up before, so this should already be pretty straightforward regarding that. Pokemon not always "blowing stadiums" up or similar scenarios like this is not a counter argument against scaling as that mainly goes against the entire point of AP and how it works. Especially arguments like "Draco meteor's used and it barely causes dust within the battlefield". This forcibly makes DC the focal point of tiering them, and thats not how this works. Particularly, you'd also be arguing that those Pokemon wouldn't even be above "stadium level" by the same merit, which would also be ridiculous to claim.

But more importantly, even if we look past the AP/DC fallacy aspect of the argument, theres an important point I want to bring to attention for people to remember here. Pokemon canonically has an in-universe justification for why their attacks don't always necessarily match the DC of what they should be doing. And the reason for that is Giratina / the Distortion World.





As this is explained in the anime (and games too, btw), the Distortion / Reverse world holds the role of being a balancer in The Pokemon Cosmology. Whenever an imbalance takes place, the Distortion World then corrects these said imbalances, so that the balance between time and space is maintained. And whenever the distortion world does this, black toxic clouds are created as bi-products of repairing space-time. And this happens constantly. The 2nd clip shows that this also applies to attacks, as Dialga and Palkia's battle in Alamos Town, which was greatly distorting time and space with every attack they both made, was supported by the Distortion World counteracting the effects of their battle. As a result, this also caused the distortion world to be overflowed with large quantities of those toxic clouds.

So long story short, the Distortion World plays the role of keeping everything in the cosmology in existence, and making it so that attacks unleashed don't just blow up everything like they should. This is precisely the reason why Dialga and Palkia, two 2-A beings, don't inflict 2-A level damage as seen. We don't see them blow apart multiple universes or the whole multiverse instantly because of the DW repairing any potential effects or damage that would do that. And this would, in fact, go for the rest of the verse too.

 

[Lou_change]

In the alternate timeline?

No examples listed on bulbapedia's history of the Pokemon world include
"I heard that Pokémon Centers had two stories up until around 10 years ago! And they used to have a special area called a “Pokémon Cable Club”!"
"A long time ago at Dewford Gym, it was always dark inside. We trained our minds by practicing in the dark!"
"I just love making Pokéblocks! In the old days it used to take four of us to make a Pokéblock with this machine. A machine that was used to mix Berries in this region long ago."
"This used to be a desolate place. The ground had holes here and there, and I used to fall in!"
"The Litleonids, hmm? I remember going to see them with your dad 11 years ago when they last passed by!" (12 in the Japanese and Korean versions)
"Hmm? Is that an Eon Ticket you have there? Hm...it’s been a good 11 years since I last saw a ticket like this..."

Gimmighoul doesn't even exist normally within Pokemon GO, you have to transfer it into it.

The only way to get a roaming form gimmighoul is Pokemon go.

So's Ethan. And it doesn't mean he's from Emerald.

What even is this argument?

It's already well established that the games and anime are connected

as different universes I feel it is reasonable to say all games are part of the multiverse

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Soooo no rematch Keys?

 

[Lou_change]

Soooo no rematch Keys?

That's not what I am arguing. I am arguing against the complete removal of the original version of trainer fights due to remakes if they are different. If you are worried it will result in people saying stuff should be removed because it is confusing we can just add a note. For example in red's original fight in GSC he has espeon instead of lapras
Note: This profile includes both the GSC and HGSS version of Red's team while technically it doesn't make sense to say Red used both these teams in his fight against Ethan both have been included on this profile for the sake of indexing and to avoid confusion from creating multiple profiles just to deal with remake differences.

 

[Lou_change]

I suppose technically this would actually be something we add later actually based on how the profiles currently look but we already have all of rainbow rocket sharing profiles with other versions of the game character so there is a precedent for this type of thing.