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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

ShakeResounding said:
Because then both Blaze and it lose an integral part of their identity, which is why I assume they aren't too keen on it.
Sega needs the confidence to do anything there in the first place, which they don't have yet, so there's no purpose to rushing in and having it be a trainwreck to mock.
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no, she is still a princess, she is still guardian of the sol emeralds, she will just not be from another dimension.
man, Sega fears to much.
ShakeResounding said:
I don't have to explain why your overlord said anything, you do. Because yes, I'm claiming it's stupid for Ian to think that.
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he is not my overlord, he is just a guy who does his job well, and how it is stupid?yes i get that, but he never explained why.
ShakeResounding said:
In community reception. Her goal is completely hamfisted, she has never "always wanted" to do that. Literally ever, until Ian had a say.
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it was one of the ideas in Sonic adventure (yes it was with the birds, but the idea was established there).
ShakeResounding said:
Because it makes Shadow look like an even bigger fool than he already was.
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so Shadow should look like he could never lose for anything?(or i am miss reading)
ShakeResounding said:
They did, that wasn't my point though. And Flynn isn't really doing her many favors when it comes to not being overshadowed and unremarkable.
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how is she unremarkable?
ShakeResounding said:
Oh don't worry, Evan and Christopher have their issues too.
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but no one cares to mention them more than Ian, they seem like randoms in comparison
 
Alexander said:
but no one cares to mention them more than Ian, they seem like randoms in comparison
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It's because Ian writes in the games and was the main writer for IDW's most popular and controversial arcs. Furthermore, Ian hates to take fault for his writing mistakes, always deflecting to Sega, unlike someone like Evan.
 
JED said:
Flynn didn’t self create these stories. Stop this misinformation. The higher ups at Sega and Sonic Team wrote the story, they simply told him to write the script. But the story itself was penned by others. Hence why Shadow acts differently in the actual games compared to the comics.

Wild that for all the shit the “mandates” get, they are unironically what prevented IDW shadow from leaking into the games.
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Sonic Team created a basic outline where Ian then filled in the blanks, and weaved it into a cohesive story with Sonic Team assistance. Then after that, Kishimoto readjusted his script back to the Japanese audience and fit their sensibilities better. Or, something like that I think. Ian was put on a leash pretty much.
 
Executor_N0 said:
A bit of that ia because of the idea those moves aren't canon. Going from what both him and Chris said, just because somethings are possible in gameplay, doesn't mean they are real in the in-universe lore.

So stuff like Shadow's other chaos moves was on the same state like Amy's invisibility, just a gameplay element.
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Sounds like a lot of bullshit to me. Let the characters do cool stuff, I say. This is why I hardly take what Ian says seriously LOL.
 
ZothythoTheNephalem said:
Sounds like a lot of bullshit to me. Let the characters do cool stuff, I say. This is why I hardly take what Ian says seriously LOL.
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I think it's a consequence of the style of approach to stories. Some authors just prefer to have abilities that fit the type of narrative they talk about instead of having a bunch of abilities that haven't been used for long years. So with Ian, at least it's common for him to drastically limit the type of abilities the characters display for the sake of consistency with the narrative, and I'm sure there are even stories he dislikes that have some things that make no sense for happening just one time.

This type of narrative doesn't go just for the amount of abilities, but also the level of the existing abilities, like how Ian prefers for Sonic to just move at the speed of sound and most of his descriptions for his speed are "He moves around at Mach speed". So previous feats end up having to be recontextualized to fit with being limited to a particular story, instead of something general. Like how although Sonic originally was depicted in Sonic CD to just time travel by sheer speed, now it needs to be something vastly limited so it doesn't bring up the question "Why won't Sonic just time travel and stop X thing from happening?".

There are other writers that prefer to increase the number of abilities that fit with a character, be it because they like to depict them in different situations and make a new power, or just because they like to come up with new powers.

I think that at least with American Sonic writers, it's much more common for them to just use more common abilities that are standard in fiction, and nothing too deep. I think that the only exception for this is Amy's fortune cards coming back, but even then it's vaguely defined and they barely to anything really interesting with them. if they had given Amy her invisibility, that would have been cool.
 
Executor_N0 said:
I think it's a consequence of the style of approach to stories. Some authors just prefer to have abilities that fit the type of narrative they talk about instead of having a bunch of abilities that haven't been used for long years. So with Ian, at least it's common for him to drastically limit the type of abilities the characters display for the sake of consistency with the narrative, and I'm sure there are even stories he dislikes that have some things that make no sense for happening just one time.

This type of narrative doesn't go just for the amount of abilities, but also the level of the existing abilities, like how Ian prefers for Sonic to just move at the speed of sound and most of his descriptions for his speed are "He moves around at Mach speed". So previous feats end up having to be recontextualized to fit with being limited to a particular story, instead of something general. Like how although Sonic originally was depicted in Sonic CD to just time travel by sheer speed, now it needs to be something vastly limited so it doesn't bring up the question "Why won't Sonic just time travel and stop X thing from happening?".

There are other writers that prefer to increase the number of abilities that fit with a character, be it because they like to depict them in different situations and make a new power, or just because they like to come up with new powers.

I think that at least with American Sonic writers, it's much more common for them to just use more common abilities that are standard in fiction, and nothing too deep. I think that the only exception for this is Amy's fortune cards coming back, but even then it's vaguely defined and they barely to anything really interesting with them. if they had given Amy her invisibility, that would have been cool.
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Sure, but it also wouldn't hurt to use certain moves here and there cuz it's cool. They have many moves that can easily fit a narrative. So long as it doesn't break pace or destroy tension, it shouldn't be a problem.
 
But also, SEGA doesn't let anyone besides Sonic and Eggman do stuff, so I'd understand the idea of bringing Blaze closer to the forefront in terms of setting, to let her do more than the occasional fire blast and cameo.
 
ZothythoTheNephalem said:
Sure, but it also wouldn't hurt to use certain moves here and there cuz it's cool. They have many moves that can easily fit a narrative. So long as it doesn't break pace or destroy tension, it shouldn't be a problem.
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For some reason, this reminded me of the current Miles Morales comic, where he's been given so much new stuff that allegedly people have started losing interest in it because nothing feels like a threat to him anymore (I say "allegedly" because I haven't read the comic myself and can't confirm anything). Maybe they're trying to avoid something similar? IDK, just guessing here.
 
Jimmy.robinson.5099 said:
For some reason, this reminded me of the current Miles Morales comic, where he's been given so much new stuff that allegedly people have started losing interest in it because nothing feels like a threat to him anymore (I say "allegedly" because I haven't read the comic myself and can't confirm anything). Maybe they're trying to avoid something similar? IDK, just guessing here.
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I think that's a part of it. Sonic having an innate time stop that he can just do whenever, and Amy also having innate invisibility not only creates the problem of "why didn't the character use this in past games/stories", but now you have a Sonic who can always crawl out of a corner on his own.

If they give Sonic the power to summon an auto-tracking tornado onto a target whenever he wants, then him not using that and his time stop in the events of certain Sonic games would make him seem dumb.
 
I have another idea for that. It's not impossible SEGA and/or Sonic Team want for certain Sonic characters to be "natural", and for others to have superpowers. So, Sonic, Amy, Knuckles, Tails, Whisper, Starline, etc would be "natural" while Silver, Shadow, Blaze, Metal Sonic, etc would have superpowers. So Sonic stopping time without external gear could get in the way of that natural aspect, if it is a priority.

This idea applies inside of the universe specifically, not for gameplay. There's already a disconnect/separation there.
 
MysticMania said:
I have another idea for that. It's not impossible SEGA and/or Sonic Team want for certain Sonic characters to be "natural", and for others to have superpowers. So, Sonic, Amy, Knuckles, Tails, Whisper, Starline, etc would be "natural" while Silver, Shadow, Blaze, Metal Sonic, etc would have superpowers. So Sonic stopping time without external gear could get in the way of that natural aspect, if it is a priority.
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i am ******* sure that even in their natural, being faster than sound is still pretty ******* super power
 
Of course, the capabilities aren't realistic. What I mean is that Sonic's speed isn't the result of any origin, and minus a case like Generations, his speed doesn't tend to have any inherent hax aspect. His speed works like ours does. However, no matter how well you train your body, no matter the fictional limit on that strain, you can't stop time. They could say his speed is insane and natural, but they couldn't do the same with time manipulation.
 
Alexander said:
i am ******* sure that even in their natural, being faster than sound is still pretty ******* super power
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Funny enough, back in the day I remember Sonic Chronicle's bio saying that Hedgehogs in that universe just were naturally that fast by nature, Sonic was just a high-level hedgehog so to speak. Still, that game isn't canon anymore.

But even the DC Crossover seems to go with the idea that they are just normal animals (Even if not canon, I think they at least want to be consistent with the lore and characters).
 
Executor_N0 said:
Funny enough, back in the day I remember Sonic Chronicle's bio saying that Hedgehogs in that universe just were naturally that fast by nature, Sonic was just a high-level hedgehog so to speak. Still, that game isn't canon anymore.

But even the DC Crossover seems to go with the idea that they are just normal animals (Even if not canon, I think they at least want to be consistent with the lore and characters).
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then ******* strong they are if they are "normal"
 
Jimmy.robinson.5099 said:
For some reason, this reminded me of the current Miles Morales comic, where he's been given so much new stuff that allegedly people have started losing interest in it because nothing feels like a threat to him anymore (I say "allegedly" because I haven't read the comic myself and can't confirm anything). Maybe they're trying to avoid something similar? IDK, just guessing here.
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Sure, but it's also not like they have to use every power within their arsenal, either. It'd just be cool for them to use some of the regular-ish moves that look awesome and would look cool on panel.
 
People have really strong stances about Ian it seems.
Honestly, he’s done some good work, some work I’m not huge on, but he’s an alright writer. Better than Pontac and Graff in terms of fitting the series
 
I prefer Frontiers & Shadow Generation scripts over Lost World & Forces and whatnot, but it is kinda true that Ian works better when fleshing out Sonic Team's script over creating stories. It worked for Archie Sonic, but Game Sonic does feel little off in IDW vs games directly, even with Evan too. It is jarring how IDW just avoided Shadow while Sonic Team made him go beat Metal Overlord lol

There are the other nuanced things that Ian does that arent great, too many references, some characters etc. but ngl removing Ian might make game scripts worse, so Id stick with current methods for now. Tho IDW will probably never go beyond average unless writing team evolves, which is unfortunate.
 
We have no idea if he's tried this, so saying so is only an assumption really.

Myself, I can't think of any thoughts he's shared that I've strongly disagreed with in terms of Sonic stuff.
 
Just because Ian is better than Pontaff doesn't make him good. The biggest problem is that he isn't used to the game characterization of characters and actively fights against Sega's direction. All because he's used to the Archie and his own versions.

He also is bad at making original stories and his own iconic dialogue. The fact that the movies dialogue is more iconic is very grim for Ian.
 
Theuser789 said:
The fact that the movies dialogue is more iconic is very grim for Ian.
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The movies reach a far larger audience than comics and games though, to my understanding. I also can't think of any movie quotes beyond "konnichi-whaaaaa" unfortunately
 
It also depends on what lines we're comparing to for "iconic". Most iconic Sonic lines I can think of are older than a decade at least, so a line being well-known outside of a fanbase can take a while.
 
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