Lovecraft Revision (Why Not And I Can’t Trust Anyone Else)

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Yeah, this verse is cool and all but the tiering is outdated. Sadly, my original thread was not compatible because it contains more than “20 Images” which I didn't have such a problem with the Unsong thread. Instead, I had to use that draft as a blog:

Back Up(Love Craft Revision)

vsbattles.fandom.com

TL; DR(Ratings)​

The Outer Gods: 1-A - The Outer Gods are layers into 1-A due to seeing the lower-dimensional planes as nothing but a dream in their unreality. They are also located in a place beyond the juncture point of all dimensional space and beyond the infinite-dimensional plane.

The Absolute: High 1-A or 0 - The former is if the archetype of infinity or the Supreme Archetype is either Yog-Sothoth or Azathoth since that's distinctly destroying the idea of pure individual being with that notion implying multiplicity and division. If its neither then it is 0 being “BEING” itself which dissolves all things into one unison consciousness that exist beyond all things at the sacred mysteries in all existence. The description of an ineffable reality and self-sustaining pervading force should be enough for 0 if the criterias are met.

 

[Re5yh]

Yeah, this verse is cool and all but the tiering is outdated. Sadly, my original thread was not compatible because it contains more than “20 Images” which I didn't have such a problem with the Unsong thread. Instead, I had to use that draft as a blog:

Back Up(Love Craft Revision)

vsbattles.fandom.com

TL; DR(Ratings)​

The Outer Gods: 1-A - The Outer Gods are layers into 1-A due to seeing the lower-dimensional planes as nothing but a dream in their unreality. They are also located in a place beyond the juncture point of all dimensional space and beyond the infinite-dimensional plane.

The Absolute: High 1-A or 0 - The former is if the archetype of infinity or the Supreme Archetype is either Yog-Sothoth or Azathoth since that's distinctly destroying the idea of pure individual being with that notion implying multiplicity and division. If its neither then it is 0 being “BEING” itself which dissolves all things into one unison consciousness that exist beyond all things at the scare mysteries in all existence. The description of an ineffable reality and self-sustaining pervading force should be enough for 0 if the criteria are met.

Shouldn't the Outer Gods be 1-A+, because of the cosmology?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Shouldn't the Outer Gods be 1-A+, because of the cosmology?

No, I already explained the very flowery language and “infinity” isn't specifically referring to layers. I can see where it comes from but unless there's direct affirmation then using too much supplementary lore rather than direct evidence is quite dumb. They are several layers into 1-A, maybe we can concur a “possible 1-A+.”

 

[Livinmeme]

Agree with tier 0, lovecraft won't stop being tier 0 until moral improves.

 

[Re5yh]

Agree with tier 0, lovecraft won't stop being tier 0 until moral improves.

I always love tier 0 Lovecraft

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Tier 0 is quite clear. Just “who” it applies to isn't.

 

[Da3ggman]

What’s the evidence for each Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth being the Tier 0 of the verse? We could probably determine which would is more “correct” by directly comparing them.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

What’s the evidence for each Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth being the Tier 0 of the verse? We could probably determine which would is more “correct” by directly comparing them.

Yog has ground with the “All-In-One and One-In-All” statement but other than that he seems normal.

Aza has grounds with all the description of him being the ultimate ruler of the Void seemingly a representation of that supreme force.

I just say they don't receive it.

 

[Apotheosis69]

It looks good, but I do feel like the Outer Gods' Layers into 1-A should be specified.

Cough Cosmology Page

From what I remember, the Supreme Archetype just has aspects to itself like Azathoth and Yog-Sothoth not full on divisions. Thus I believe the Supreme Archetype could be Tier 0, but I could be wrong

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

It looks good, but I do feel like the Outer Gods' Layers into 1-A should be specified.

It’s unquantifiable.

From what I remember, the Supreme Archetype just has aspects to itself like Azathoth and Yog-Sothoth not full on divisions. Thus I believe the Supreme Archetype could be Tier 0, but I could be wrong

Even with this preconceived notion, it would still be fallible. If they were both “avatars” then they get High 1-A+(Type 2) but obviously, there can only be one “all possible space.” So it could be that Yog is that archetype while Azathoth is the direct expression. However, I'm not keen on giving either of them a 0 or a High 1-A+ rating.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

With that being said above. A High 1-A+(Type 1) shout is very much possible. Since 0 or in this case the Absolute dissolve all possibilities into one: itself. Then Azathoth and Yog-Sothoth can actualize that into any applicant to whatever they direct it to. Azathoth is constantly slumbering and maintaining the stability of reality, while Yog-Sothoth is “the unison of all division” ie All-In-One and One-In-All or just “oneness.”

 

[Apotheosis69]

It’s unquantifiable.

So 1-A+ then?

Even with this preconceived notion, it would still be fallible. If they were both “avatars” then they get High 1-A+(Type 2) but obviously, there can only be one “all possible space.” So it could be that Yog is that archetype while Azathoth is the direct expression. However, I'm not keen on giving either of them a 0 or a High 1-A+ rating.

Yeah, both Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth are completely equal right? If so, that could make them High 1-A+ (Type 1). Assuming they can manipulate modal possibilities/logistics

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

So 1-A+ then?

No. Just like how “countless” and “innumerable” does not imply infinity, it's also the case with unquantifiable. I'm just saying that “they're unquantifiable” in which “where they scale” not that the hierarchy itself is infinite and they being infinitely high into it.

Yeah, both Yog-Sothoth and Azathoth are completely equal right? If so, that could make them High 1-A+ (Type 1). Assuming they can manipulate modal possibilities/logistics

In essence, that's the most likely what they should scale to.

 

[Apotheosis69]

No. Just like how “countless” and “innumerable” does not imply infinity, it's also the case with unquantifiable. I'm just saying that “they're unquantifiable” in which “where they scale” not that the hierarchy itself is infinite and they being infinitely high into it.

But being unquantifiable is pretty much beyond cardinalities, cus that's what they are (quantities). Cus like Aleph-null, which is the first Infinity... is still quantifiable. So that should be superior right?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

But being unquantifiable is pretty much beyond cardinalities, cus that's what they are (quantities). Cus like Aleph-null, which is the first Infinity... is still quantifiable. So that should be superior right?

You're interpreting that sentence with too much vsbw-ism. We use "unquantifiable" for any tier. It really just means the character are higher into the tier but its unclear how much high. In this case, what Goofy is saying is that the Outer Gods are above baseline but in an unknown layer.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

But being unquantifiable is pretty much beyond cardinalities, cus that's what they are (quantities). Cus like Aleph-null, which is the first Infinity... is still quantifiable. So that should be superior right?

I didn't describe them as unquantifiable as in the quantitative placement of them in a hierarchy. Rather, you can't place them anywhere within it since there's no clear indication where exactly they scale. Said hierarchy also isn't described as infinite so there's that but the terminology I used isn't meant to denote anything of the sort you're explaining.

 

[Apotheosis69]

I understand. Then with that, this looks good

 

[Udlmaster]

Yeah, this verse is cool and all but the tiering is outdated. Sadly, my original thread was not compatible because it contains more than “20 Images” which I didn't have such a problem with the Unsong thread. Instead, I had to use that draft as a blog:

Back Up(Love Craft Revision)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Ask and thou shalt receive, part 1:

With the forms of these ancient entities being beyond all descriptions whom have infinite complex shapes

The text itself doesn't really imply this in a literal sense. If you looked at only one sentence where it says;

The general type of masonry was identical with that of the rampart we had examined; but the extravagant shapes which this masonry took in its urban manifestations were past all description.

But in the context of the whole, it's more so describing how it's constantly shifting;

Even the pictures illustrate only one or two phases of its infinite bizarrerie, endless variety, preternatural massiveness, and utterly alien exoticism.

Even the pictures illustrate only one or two phases of its infinite bizarrerie, endless variety, preternatural massiveness, and utterly alien exoticism. There were geometrical forms for which an Euclid could scarcely find a name—cones of all degrees of irregularity and truncation; terraces of every sort of provocative disproportion; shafts with odd bulbous enlargements; broken columns in curious groups; and five-pointed or five-ridged arrangements of mad grotesqueness. As we drew nearer we could see beneath certain transparent parts of the ice-sheet, and detect some of the tubular stone bridges that connected the crazily sprinkled structures at various heights. Of orderly streets there seemed to be none, the only broad open swath being a mile to the left, where the ancient river had doubtless flowed through the town into the mountains.

As in the words of the text, it's constantly shifting in its form, as something beyond description the text does describe it a lot.

The steady trend down the ages was from water to land; a movement encouraged by the rise of new land masses, though the ocean was never wholly deserted. Another cause of the landward movement was the new difficulty in breeding and managing the shoggoths upon which successful sea-life depended. With the march of time, as the sculptures sadly confessed, the art of creating new life from inorganic matter had been lost; so that the Old Ones had to depend on the moulding of forms already in existence. On land the great reptiles proved highly tractable; but the shoggoths of the sea, reproducing by fission and acquiring a dangerous degree of accidental intelligence, presented for a time a formidable problem.

They had always been controlled through the hypnotic suggestion of the Old Ones, and had modelled their tough plasticity into various useful temporary limbs and organs; but now their self-modelling powers were sometimes exercised independently, and in various imitative forms implanted by past suggestion. They had, it seems, developed a semi-stable brain whose separate and occasionally stubborn volition echoed the will of the Old Ones without always obeying it. Sculptured images of these shoggoths filled Danforth and me with horror and loathing. They were normally shapeless entities composed of a viscous jelly which looked like an agglutination of bubbles; and each averaged about fifteen feet in diameter when a sphere. They had, however, a constantly shifting shape and volume; throwing out temporary developments or forming apparent organs of sight, hearing, and speech in imitation of their masters, either spontaneously or according to suggestion.

They seem to have become peculiarly intractable toward the middle of the Permian age, perhaps 150 million years ago, when a veritable war of re-subjugation was waged upon them by the marine Old Ones. Pictures of this war, and of the headless, slime-coated fashion in which the shoggoths typically left their slain victims, held a marvellously fearsome quality despite the intervening abyss of untold ages. The Old Ones had used curious weapons of molecular disturbance against the rebel entities, and in the end had achieved a complete victory. Thereafter the sculptures shewed a period in which shoggoths were tamed and broken by armed Old Ones as the wild horses of the American west were tamed by cowboys. Though during the rebellion the shoggoths had shewn an ability to live out of water, this transition was not encouraged; since their usefulness on land would hardly have been commensurate with the trouble of their management.

This doesn't really have much to do with the overall point, there's not explanatory text explaining what it has to do with the overall point.

The Mountains of Madness that already is stated to be at the gulf of remote time, space, and ultra-dimensions overlooks into the gateways of a sort of dream-space holding sorts of ultimate and ethereal beyondness beyond spatiality that has no remoteness nor separateness into the ultimate abyss:

The text itself doesn't say a "gulf of XYZ", it says a "gulf of remote XYZ", likewise, it doesn't say it's beyond spatiality at all, nor that it has no remoteness nor separateness.

as if these stark, nightmare spires marked the pylons of a frightful gateway into forbidden spheres of dream, and complex gulfs of remote time, space, and ultra-dimensionality. I could not help feeling that they were evil things—mountains of madness whose farther slopes looked out over some accursed ultimate abyss. That seething, half-luminous cloud-background held ineffable suggestions of a vague, ethereal beyondness far more than terrestrially spatial; and gave appalling reminders of the utter remoteness, separateness, desolation, and aeon-long death of this untrodden and unfathomed austral world.

The difference here is key.

The part discussing the remoteness is just referring to how far away those things are.

It is also not beyond spatiality as the text simply says "ethereal beyondness far more than terrestrially spatial". This is beyond Earth's space, not Spatiality in general, especially as it's talking about "beyondness".

Likewise, the part about separateness and remoteness have nothing to due with the nature of the abyss and have entirely to do with the feelings of the crew who are, by the way, looking at this on a plane, on Earth, in Earth's sky. They are sending all the things they're seeing and researching to the Newspaper.

Every incident of that four-and-a-half-hour flight is burned into my recollection because of its crucial position in my life. It marked my loss, at the age of fifty-four, of all that peace and balance which the normal mind possesses through its accustomed conception of external Nature and Nature’s laws. Thenceforward the ten of us—but the student Danforth and myself above all others—were to face a hideously amplified world of lurking horrors which nothing can erase from our emotions, and which we would refrain from sharing with mankind in general if we could. The newspapers have printed the bulletins we sent from the moving plane; telling of our non-stop course, our two battles with treacherous upper-air gales, our glimpse of the broken surface where Lake had sunk his mid-journey shaft three days before, and our sight of a group of those strange fluffy snow-cylinders noted by Amundsen and Byrd as rolling in the wind across the endless leagues of frozen plateau. There came a point, though, when our sensations could not be conveyed in any words the press would understand; and a later point when we had to adopt an actual rule of strict censorship.

The realm encompassing life and death, time and space, and alongside all the horrors that intermingle horrendous alliance:

It doesn't say it encompasses anything, the word doesn't even show up in the text:

Less than a fortnight later we left the last hint of polar land behind us, and thanked heaven that we were clear of a haunted, accursed realm where life and death, space and time, have made black and blasphemous alliances in the unknown epochs since matter first writhed and swam on the planet’s scarce-cooled crust.

As you can see, the closest you get is a fanciful description of these having made "black and blasphemous alliances", not that it encompasses them.

The realm being connected through dreamland and beyond it:

I believe the argument here is that the "ultimate abyss" with which the text used prior is being equated to the "Great Abyss" in the Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath.

The text however doesn't use nouns for the ultimate abyss and in the text while Great Abyss is used as a noun, simply talks about the slope, that's all;

I could not help feeling that they were evil things—mountains of madness whose farther slopes looked out over some accursed ultimate abyss.

This is describing the fear of the writer who's looking down on the slopes from a Plane and is dreading looking at it. This doesn't so relate to the Dreamland.

The closest we get in any reference to the Dreamlands are this statement, and is again only talking about remote parts of it:

In the whole spectacle there was a persistent, pervasive hint of stupendous secrecy and potential revelation; as if these stark, nightmare spires marked the pylons of a frightful gateway into forbidden spheres of dream, and complex gulfs of remote time, space, and ultra-dimensionality.

The rest is discussing the nature of the Void and so doesn't relate to the above;

Also, the Void is beyond any lines at the edge of this chasm and the interconnecting point of peaceful oblivion to which was described earlier to be the connection to the very absolute archetype:

This is another example of a abyss. The abyss in the section here from The Transition of Juan Romero, which was written 14 years before Through the Gate and Silver Key and 12 years before At the Mountains of Madness, is simply a abyss in a Cave that they are mining in. Near the end, when the Miner awakes from "all in le head", the lightning bolt that struck the mountain blocked the abyss;

That storm, said men who had ventured down the mine shaft, had caused extensive caving in, and had completely closed the deep abyss which had created so much apprehension the day before. When I asked the watchman what sounds he had heard prior to the mighty thunderbolt, he mentioned a coyote, a dog, and the snarling mountain wind—nothing more. Nor do I doubt his word.

It is also not a "peaceful oblivion" either, as the text outright says that the Mine Worker looks into the Abyss and sees terrible things that causes him to black out

and I saw—was it Juan Romero?—but God! I dare not tell you what I saw! . . . Some power from heaven, coming to my aid, obliterated both sights and sounds in such a crash as may be heard when two universes collide in space. Chaos supervened, and I knew the peace of oblivion.

I hardly know how to continue, since conditions so singular are involved; but I will do my best, not even trying to differentiate betwixt the real and the apparent. When I awaked, I was safe in my bunk and the red glow of dawn was visible at the window. Some distance away the lifeless body of Juan Romero lay upon a table, surrounded by a group of men, including the camp doctor.

These nameless creatures exist beyond the Mountains of Madness which were described to be infinite in width and measureless

The Mountains themselves aren't actually infinite, firstly, it should needs be remarked, that it is still on Earth in Antarctica.

Lovecraft himself likes to use "infinite" to mean "a great distance";

The sailor Larsen was first to spy the jagged line of witch-like cones and pinnacles ahead, and his shouts sent everyone to the windows of the great cabined plane. Despite our speed, they were very slow in gaining prominence; hence we knew that they must be infinitely far off, and visible only because of their abnormal height.

If they were so infinite, then they should always be able to see it, but someone has to point out when they begin to see the mountains, and again, they are flying to them on a plane. A 1930s plane, no less.

When reading the 3 chapters of the story, Lovecraft uses infinite or Infinity all the time to just mean "a lot"

Beyond the inclined planes and dimensional levels of which are dreams that can be conjured from the things in the darkness:

The abyss referenced in this story is just a hole near the Great Sphinx. The context of this story is that of an alleged real account of Harry Houdini (Yes, that one) who got captured by a Egyptian Guide and thrown into a hole and finds a god who inspired the Sphinx.

Then it did emerge . . . it did emerge, and at the sight I turned and fled into the darkness up the higher staircase that rose behind me; fled unknowingly up incredible steps and ladders and inclined planes to which no human sight or logic guided me

This doesn't mean the slopes were beyond human sight or logic, he's talking about how he runs without thinking, "no sight or logic guided me", he's not seeing or thinking.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

The text itself doesn't really imply this in a literal sense. If you looked at only one sentence where it says;

Poon. I half-assed for the coolness factor. I contemplated about using it to make a nonsensical point.

But in the context of the whole, it's more so describing how it's constantly shifting;


As in the words of the text, it's constantly shifting in its form, as something beyond description the text does describe it a lot.

This doesn't really have much to do with the overall point, there's not explanatory text explaining what it has to do with the overall point.


The text itself doesn't say a "gulf of XYZ", it says a "gulf of remote XYZ", likewise, it doesn't say it's beyond spatiality at all, nor that it has no remoteness nor separateness.

The difference here is key.

The part discussing the remoteness is just referring to how far away those things are.

It is also not beyond spatiality as the text simply says "ethereal beyondness far more than terrestrially spatial". This is beyond Earth's space, not Spatiality in general, especially as it's talking about "beyondness".

Likewise, the part about separateness and remoteness have nothing to due with the nature of the abyss and have entirely to do with the feelings of the crew who are, by the way, looking at this on a plane, on Earth, in Earth's sky. They are sending all the things they're seeing and researching to the Newspaper.



It doesn't say it encompasses anything, the word doesn't even show up in the text:

As you can see, the closest you get is a fanciful description of these having made "black and blasphemous alliances", not that it encompasses them.

I believe the argument here is that the "ultimate abyss" with which the text used prior is being equated to the "Great Abyss" in the Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath.

The text however doesn't use nouns for the ultimate abyss and in the text while Great Abyss is used as a noun, simply talks about the slope, that's all;


This is describing the fear of the writer who's looking down on the slopes from a Plane and is dreading looking at it. This doesn't so relate to the Dreamland.

The closest we get in any reference to the Dreamlands are this statement, and is again only talking about remote parts of it:


The rest is discussing the nature of the Void and so doesn't relate to the above;


This is another example of a abyss. The abyss in the section here from The Transition of Juan Romero, which was written 14 years before Through the Gate and Silver Key and 12 years before At the Mountains of Madness, is simply a abyss in a Cave that they are mining in. Near the end, when the Miner awakes from "all in le head", the lightning bolt that struck the mountain blocked the abyss;


It is also not a "peaceful oblivion" either, as the text outright says that the Mine Worker looks into the Abyss and sees terrible things that causes him to black out

Its metaphorical since oblivion was used a lot later when describing about dissolving into non-existence. Another poetic device in this context it was referring not to the Abyss in the direct sense of the place where the Outer Gods lived.

Also, laziness on my part for not organizing that correctly. I may of intentionally added extra context where no context existed.

Lovecraft himself likes to use "infinite" to mean "a great distance";


If they were so infinite, then they should always be able to see it, but someone has to point out when they begin to see the mountains, and again, they are flying to them on a plane. A 1930s plane, no less.

When reading the 3 chapters of the story, Lovecraft uses infinite or Infinity all the time to just mean "a lot"

Yeah, that's why I didn't use “infinite hierarchy” as a literal thing.

The abyss referenced in this story is just a hole near the Great Sphinx. The context of this story is that of an alleged real account of Harry Houdini (Yes, that one) who got captured by a Egyptian Guide and thrown into a hole and finds a god who inspired the Sphinx.


This doesn't mean the slopes were beyond human sight or logic, he's talking about how he runs without thinking, "no sight or logic guided me", he's not seeing or thinking.

Poon Teng Pie. The obvious poetic devices can be ignored. I just used them for the cool factor really. Yeah, I do agree for the most part though most of the obvious rating is hardly reflected upon these specific reasoning and some of the examples I used weren't really for what you explained mainly “spatiality” I just name drop that and didn't further elaborate it since I knew after reading it a couple of time it wasn't referring to space as the core concept, but “space of earthly plane.” I'm guilty as charged for it.

 

[Udlmaster]

Ask and thou shall receive, part 2:

(CLEAN UP YOUR SCANS, YOU DON'T NEED THE YAPPING JUST POST THE MAIN PARAGRAPH UGHHHHHHH)

Its metaphorical since oblivion was used a lot later when describing about dissolving into non-existence.

Right, but this isn't the Abyss at all, it's a hole in a mine.

These Suerpnal realms of radiance are infinitely beyond any conception of human consciousness

The Supernal here isn't so much beyond any human conception or consciousness, but rather, as the text says, something only a superior or exceptional brain could conceive.

By degrees I commenced to feel an overwhelming wonder at the mad and fantastic conceptions of Joe Slater. The man himself was pitiably inferior in mentality and language alike; but his glowing, titanic visions, though described in a barbarous and disjointed jargon, were assuredly things which only a superior or even exceptional brain could conceive.

The part about how the Intern (btw, the PoV is an Intern) thinks the man has a spark of something beyond his understand is tied both his inability to understand it from a medical view;

More and more I inclined to the belief that in the pitiful personality who cringed before me lay the disordered nucleus of something beyond my comprehension; something infinitely beyond the comprehension of my more experienced but less imaginative medical and scientific colleagues.

But also that he is a man of science, which at several points in Lovecraft's writing has he said are incapable of understanding the mysteries of the world;

whose existence we suspect only in certain forms of sleep—those rare dreams beyond dreams which come never to common men, and but once or twice in the lifetime of imaginative men.

The array of vital evidence was damnably vast and overwhelming; and the cool, scientific attitude of Akeley—an attitude removed as far as imaginable from the demented, the fanatical, the hysterical, or even the extravagantly speculative—had a tremendous effect on my thought and judgment.

Then we get some stuff about a truer conception of things as concept within concepts but also something that lacks and transcends both:

That doesn't seem to be the case, rather the absence of dualities, there's no mention that it transcends both, rather pretty standard transdualism "Neither X or Y"

Now there was no distinction between boy and man. There was only the entity Randolph Carter, with a certain store of images which had lost all connexion with terrestrial scenes and circumstances of acquisition. A moment before, there had been an inner cave with vague suggestions of a monstrous arch and gigantic sculptured hand on the farther wall. Now there was neither cave nor absence of cave; neither wall nor absence of wall. There was only a flux of impressions not so much visual as cerebral, amidst which the entity that was Randolph Carter experienced perceptions or registrations of all that his mind revolved on, yet without any clear consciousness of the way in which he received them.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Ask and thou shall receive, part 2:

(CLEAN UP YOUR SCANS, YOU DON'T NEED THE YAPPING JUST POST THE MAIN PARAGRAPH UGHHHHHHH)

No. The yap is needed or it doesn't look aesthetic.

Right, but this isn't the Abyss at all, it's a hole in a mine.

Right, not the point though.

The Supernal here isn't so much beyond any human conception or consciousness, but rather, as the text says, something only a superior or exceptional brain could conceive.

The realms are Supernal regardless if they are meant to being beyond human consciousness. I used it as an adjective precisely as how the story described them using that phrase.

That doesn't seem to be the case, rather the absence of dualities, there's no mention that it transcends both, rather pretty standard transdualism "Neither X or Y"

Well, 0 are rather non-dual but also transdual. This doesn't really need to be pointed out as I assumed it was the natural essence of any Boundless characters(though, I added it for the coolness factor).

 

[Udlmaster]

No. The yap is needed or it doesn't look aesthetic.

It wasn't very aesthetic for reading when the important part is the last sentences in the whole thing.

Right, not the point though.

But it's not metaphorical sense either. Because they're not the same.

It's linking two completely unrelated phenomena together because they're vaguely called the same thing and that it mentions "oblivion" when it didn't match your description of events or the framing.

The realms are Supernal regardless if they are meant to being beyond human consciousness.

Right, but the important part of your description of the text was that it was beyond human consciousness, which it wasn't.

Naturally otherwise you'd have simply put "These realms are Supernal:"

Well, 0 are rather non-dual but also transdual.

As in the tier? Well, I don't find that material to the discussion since we're discussing the text and extrapolations rather than any tiering assigned to it.

If you mean "0" in terms of binary, then it wouldn't be that either. As the text says "X nor not X", in this example it's neither 0 or 1.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

It wasn't very aesthetic for reading when the important part is the last sentences in the whole thing.


But it's not metaphorical sense either. Because they're not the same.

I still found an inkling of connection. The way it was explained by me was atrocious.

Right, but the important part of your description of the text was that it was beyond human consciousness, which it wasn't.

I was also using it as supplementary info since the whole point was that the Outer Gods and the realms they live in is for the most part beyond human consciousness.

Naturally otherwise you'd have simply put "These realms are Supernal:"

They mean same thing to me. The description is for the realms not really that “Supernal” means beyond.

As in the tier? Well, I don't find that material to the discussion since we're discussing the text and extrapolations rather than any tiering assigned to it.

If you mean "0" in terms of binary, then it wouldn't be that either. As the text says "X nor not X", in this example it's neither 0 or 1.

I wasn't going for that. I was just going they lack duality but in the same vein transcend it. The text itself doesn't state it but I assume with the other information it was made self-evident. Regardless, it wouldn’t have changed anything.

 

[Hirotoswnn1x]

Yog-Sothoth should be 0 ?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Yog-Sothoth should be 0 ?

No.

 

[Billy390]

Yog has ground with the “All-In-One and One-In-All” statement but other than that he seems normal.

Aza has grounds with all the description of him being the ultimate ruler of the Void seemingly a representation of that supreme force.

I just say they don't receive it.

Unless you haven't actually read Lovecraft, Yog-Sothoth has actually been shown multiple times to be above Azathoth. The only reason Azathoth is above Yog-Sothoth is because they think Azathoth dreamed existence, which is false.

 

[Antvasima]

So what, if any changes to your suggested tiering needs to be applied based on Udlmaster's feedback here?

@Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Planck69 @Emirp sumitpo @IdiosyncraticLawyer @The_King_of_Prudence

What do you think about this?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

So what, if any changes to your suggested tiering needs to be applied based on Udlmaster's feedback here?

He's not targeting the ratings. He was pointing out a lot of nonsense I was writing to make the blog look more “aesthetic” it doesn't at all affect the rating. It was true I added some stuff that had no actual meaning.

Unless you haven't actually read Lovecraft, Yog-Sothoth has actually been shown multiple times to be above Azathoth. The only reason Azathoth is above Yog-Sothoth is because they think Azathoth dreamed existence, which is false.

I never claimed one was above the other.

 

[Antvasima]

He's not targeting the ratings. He was pointing out a lot of nonsense I was writing to make the blog look more “aesthetic” it doesn't at all affect the rating. It was true I added some stuff that had no actual meaning.

Okay. I would appreciate if you please make the blog as matter-of-fact and professional looking as possible.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Okay. I would appreciate if you please make the blog as matter-of-fact and professional looking as possible.

I don't plan to use the blog at all(it was a backup since I couldn't post here due to the image restriction). I just wanted the ratings to be revised. Everything in the Cosmology blog is good but the rating is not up to date and there's only one portion to remove if this does get accepted. There's nothing wrong with the blog in terms of structuring or anything, I just happened to add something unwarranted stuff.

 

[Re5yh]

No.

I disagree that Yog-Sothoth has all of fiction inside of him.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I disagree that Yog-Sothoth has all of fiction inside of him.

No. Yog most certainly does not.

 

[Lordhesperus]

shouldn't Yog-sothoth be the only one Tier 0 if he is the Supreme Archetype and Azathoth is simply an avatar of the Supreme Archetype? or are they simply both avatars of the Supreme Archetype, one representing the all-in-one aspect of the Supreme Archetype while the other being represents the Supreme Archetype as the ruler of all?

 

[Antvasima]

I don't plan to use the blog at all(it was a backup since I couldn't post here due to the image restriction). I just wanted the ratings to be revised. Everything in the Cosmology blog is good but the rating is not up to date and there's only one portion to remove if this does get accepted. There's nothing wrong with the blog in terms of structuring or anything, I just happened to add something unwarranted stuff.

Okay. Never mind then. Thank you for helping out.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

shouldn't Yog-sothoth be the only one Tier 0 if he is the Supreme Archetype and Azathoth is simply an avatar of the Supreme Archetype? or are they simply both avatars of the Supreme Archetype, one representing the all-in-one aspect of the Supreme Archetype while the other being represents the Supreme Archetype as the ruler of all?

Latter, most likely.

 

[Antvasima]

So which staff members have accepted what here so far?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

So which staff members have accepted what here so far?

No staff so far.

 

[Antvasima]

No staff so far.

@DontTalkDT @DarkDragonMedeus @Just_a_Random_Butler @Agnaa @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @GrathOfLux @Dereck03 @Planck69 @LephyrTheRevanchist @Executor_N0 @Ovy7 @Rakih_Elyan @IdiosyncraticLawyer @RatherClueless @Udlmaster

Your help would be very appreciated here.

 

[Udlmaster]

The 1-A part is generally fine, there shouldn't be any problems there.

I think Yog-Sothoth as the Supreme Archetype is completely fine for 0, it fulfils pretty much all requirements of being 0.

I generally think "The Absolute" referenced throughout the book is just Yog-Sothoth, with Azathoth as the King but Yog-Sothoth being the proverbial "Castle" with both the Supreme Archetype and Yog-Sothoth are the "same".

 

[Apotheosis69]

Would Azathoth be High 1-A+ as it would be like an "Expression" of the Supreme Archetype?