Miraculous CRT Part 3

[Lort15]

Marinette Dupain-Cheng + Miraculouses:

- Madness Manipulation Type 3 for Miraculouses and resistance to Madness Manipulation for Marinette (Type 3; it's a side affect of the miraculous, merging miraculous gives too much power, it could make lose holder's mind, meanwhile Marinette didn't lose her mind. Even Master fu admitted that "No miraculous holder owner in all of history has never been mentally physically strong enough to use that many miraculous at the same time", Stated by Cat Noir even using 2 miraculous at the same time is too dangerous which is reffering to side affects of the miraculous)

- Conceptual Manipulation for Miraculouses, holders and Abstract Existence Type 1 for Kwamis (Type 2; Gimmi already got conceptual existence because each kwami exist as a conceptual being of their respective powers, with the example given for Conceptual Manipulation by Xuppu "Take Tikki as an example she is the kwami of creation, if there is another creation then it is not creation, it's replication" Xuppu, Sass and Orriko were trying to explain why Gabriel can't grant Tikki's power because it's being a concept, a concept only exist in the universe once and both Sass and Xuppu were reffering to the creation power aka Ladybug's power lucky charm as a concept. In the past kwamis are used to accross travel the universe without being able to interact with the other living beings, Kwamis were like sprit-like beings before the miraculouses however a Chinese mage figured out how to create special magical jewels, the Miraculouses. These jewels allowed the Kwamis to manifest in physical form, Tikki also explains to Monarch that when Plagg destroyed his own miraculous he lost his only means to communicate with the human world. So before Miraculouses Kwamis were sprit-like creatures which lacks a physical body but now they have an avatar that could interact, communicate with the human world but if their avatars gets killed or destroyed somehow they will turn back to their sprit-like forms which lacks a body.)



- Limited Absorption/Power Absorption (Miraculous absorps Kwami's and their powers for grant their powers to the holders)

- Limited Body puppetry and Paralysis indicument (Holders are able to control Kwami's actions, They can shut their mouth, can force them to give informations, even can paralyze their bodies as long as they want)

- Ladybug resistance to Limited Precognition
(Furious Fu couldn't predict Ladybug's plan's all details however he predicted the rest of it except Mariane's part)

- Cosmic awareness (Lucky charm was aware from second chance being used by Monarch it gave a different Lucky charm to Ladybug everytime Monarch used second chance)

- Memory Manipulation, Weather Manipulation and NPI for minds (Miraculous Cat Noir is able to erase memories from people's minds also it affected the weather somehow)

Agree: CelestialVortex01, TWILIGHT-OP (as shown here), Dalesean027 (same as TWILIGHT-OP),
Reiner04 (same as TWILIGHT-OP)
Disagree:
TWILIGHT-OP (as shown here), Dalesean027 (same as TWILIGHT-OP),
Reiner04 (same as TWILIGHT-OP)
Neutral:
TWILIGHT-OP (as shown here), Dalesean027 (same as TWILIGHT-OP),
Reiner04 (same as TWILIGHT-OP)

 

[CelestialVortex01]

Yeah these all look perfectly fine, I agree.

 

[Lort15]

Yeah these all look perfectly fine, I agree.

thanks bro i will count ur vote

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

CM Type 2 need to shown the Miraculouses holders can change concept and every object are bound by this concept, for example:
Tikki's power can change concept of creation, so everything will change because the concept has changed.
I agree with Type 3
Instead of CM Type 2, add Non-Physical Interaction (Abstraction [Type 1{Concept Type 3}])

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

- Memory Manipulation, Weather Manipulation and NPI for minds (Miraculous Cat Noir is able to erase memories from people's minds also it affected the weather somehow)

More like Information Manipulation Type 1?

 

[Deleted member 40129]

Everything makes sense, but you should probably specify that Kwamis are only physically present because of their miraculous (¿)

 

[Deleted member 40129]

CM Type 2 need to shown the Miraculouses holders can change concept and every object are bound by this concept, for example:
Tikki's power can change concept of creation, so everything will change because the concept has changed.
I agree with Type 3
Instead of CM Type 2, add Non-Physical Interaction (Abstraction [Type 1{Concept Type 3}])

The evidence is pretty jarring, so no need for showcase of such feat. Tikki (¿) came into existence after the creation of the universe, thus becoming Kwami of creation itself. The scan also elaborates on how there cannot be two Kwamis of the same concept, further proving it's not a personal construct.

 

[Lort15]

Everything makes sense, but you should probably specify that Kwamis are only physically present because of their miraculous (¿)

i did actually

- Conceptual Manipulation for Miraculouses, holders and Abstract Existence Type 1 for Kwamis (Type 2; Gimmi already got conceptual existence because each kwami exist as a conceptual being of their respective powers, with the example given for Conceptual Manipulation by Xuppu "Take Tikki as an example she is the kwami of creation, if there is another creation then it is not creation, it's replication" Xuppu, Sass and Orriko were trying to explain why Gabriel can't grant Tikki's power because it's being a concept, a concept only exist in the universe once and both Sass and Xuppu were reffering to the creation power aka Ladybug's power lucky charm as a concept. In the past kwamis are used to accross travel the universe without being able to interact with the other living beings, Kwamis were like sprit-like beings before the miraculouses however a Chinese mage figured out how to create special magical jewels, the Miraculouses. These jewels allowed the Kwamis to manifest in physical form, Tikki also explains to Monarch that when Plagg destroyed his own miraculous he lost his only means to communicate with the human world. So before Miraculouses Kwamis were sprit-like creatures which lacks a physical body but now they have an avatar that could interact, communicate with the human world but if their avatars gets killed or destroyed somehow they will turn back to their sprit-like forms which lacks a body.)

 

[Lort15]

More like Information Manipulation Type 1?

no? since when erasing someone's memory counts as info manip? Gabriel being monarch information wasn't erased it was just erased from Alya's memory, Marinette still knows Gabriel Agreste was Monarch

 

[Deleted member 40129]

i did actually

No, make a separate key, you lazy bum. A key for Kwamis where they are not hold down by Miraculous (¿) Even if it's just a single ability, clarity is of utmost importance.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Marinette Dupain-Cheng + Miraculouses:

- Madness Manipulation Type 3 for Miraculouses and resistance to Madness Manipulation for Marinette (Type 3; it's a side affect of the miraculous, merging miraculous gives too much power, it could make lose holder's mind, meanwhile Marinette didn't lose her mind. Even Master fu admitted that "No miraculous holder owner in all of history has never been mentally physically strong enough to use that many miraculous at the same time", Stated by Cat Noir even using 2 miraculous at the same time is too dangerous which is reffering to side affects of the miraculous)

Fine ig.

- Conceptual Manipulation for Miraculouses, holders and Abstract Existence Type 1 for Kwamis (Type 2; Gimmi already got conceptual existence because each kwami exist as a conceptual being of their respective powers, with the example given for Conceptual Manipulation by Xuppu "Take Tikki as an example she is the kwami of creation, if there is another creation then it is not creation, it's replication" Xuppu, Sass and Orriko were trying to explain why Gabriel can't grant Tikki's power because it's being a concept, a concept only exist in the universe once and both Sass and Xuppu were reffering to the creation power aka Ladybug's power lucky charm as a concept. In the past kwamis are used to accross travel the universe without being able to interact with the other living beings, Kwamis were like sprit-like beings before the miraculouses however a Chinese mage figured out how to create special magical jewels, the Miraculouses. These jewels allowed the Kwamis to manifest in physical form, Tikki also explains to Monarch that when Plagg destroyed his own miraculous he lost his only means to communicate with the human world. So before Miraculouses Kwamis were sprit-like creatures which lacks a physical body but now they have an avatar that could interact, communicate with the human world but if their avatars gets killed or destroyed somehow they will turn back to their sprit-like forms which lacks a body.)

I told you before, so I'll not repeat but will agree to posible rating.

- Limited Absorption/Power Absorption (Miraculous absorps Kwami's and their powers for grant their powers to the holders)

Sure

- Limited Body puppetry and Paralysis indicument (Holders are able to control Kwami's actions, They can shut their mouth, can force them to give informations, even can paralyze their bodies as long as they want)

Fine

- Ladybug resistance to Limited Precognition
(Furious Fu couldn't predict Ladybug's plan's all details however he predicted the rest of it except Mariane's part)

Idk actually

- Cosmic awareness (Lucky charm was aware from second chance being used by Monarch it gave a different Lucky charm to Ladybug everytime Monarch used second chance)

Nah, I wouldn’t call that cosmic awareness. But every time Monarch used Second Chance, he also altered his plan before Ladybug even used her powers. That clearly changed the outcome, which in turn would have affected the Lucky Charm as well.

- Memory Manipulation, Weather Manipulation and NPI for minds (Miraculous Cat Noir is able to erase memories from people's minds also it affected the weather somehow)

Fine.

 

[Lort15]

Nah, I wouldn’t call that cosmic awareness. But every time Monarch used Second Chance, he also altered his plan before Ladybug even used her powers. That clearly changed the outcome, which in turn would have affected the Lucky Charm as well.

i mean it didn't affect the part of supernatural luck ngl also the object part Ladybug still won against monarch even with such power, Lucky charm doesn't have something like instictive reaction to active itself, we can't ignore the fact that Lucky charm gave Ladybug different objects everytime when second chance was used by Monarch if Lucky charm wasn't aware from Second chance it wouldn't give Ladybug a different object

 

[AsterReal]

More like Information Manipulation Type 1?

Why would it be type 1 information and not mental manipulation/memory manipulation? The context of what happened is that Adrien destroys part of the Alya Memory with the power of destruction. Since the power of creation could not reverse the fact that Alya knew the secret of Marinette.

 

[AsterReal]

- Cosmic awareness (Lucky charm was aware from second chance being used by Monarch it gave a different Lucky charm to Ladybug everytime Monarch used second chance)

I think this fits better as Passive Probability Manipulation.

 

[Lort15]

Why would it be type 1 information and not mental manipulation/memory manipulation? The context of what happened is that Adrien destroys part of the Alya Memory with the power of destruction. Since the power of creation could not reverse the fact that Alya knew the secret of Marinette.

power of creation only repairs the damage it can not destroy things thats why and ye it isnt info manip

 

[AsterReal]

Marinette Dupain-Cheng + Miraculouses:

- Madness Manipulation Type 3 for Miraculouses and resistance to Madness Manipulation for Marinette (Type 3; it's a side affect of the miraculous, merging miraculous gives too much power, it could make lose holder's mind, meanwhile Marinette didn't lose her mind. Even Master fu admitted that "No miraculous holder owner in all of history has never been mentally physically strong enough to use that many miraculous at the same time", Stated by Cat Noir even using 2 miraculous at the same time is too dangerous which is reffering to side affects of the miraculous)

- Conceptual Manipulation for Miraculouses, holders and Abstract Existence Type 1 for Kwamis (Type 2; Gimmi already got conceptual existence because each kwami exist as a conceptual being of their respective powers, with the example given for Conceptual Manipulation by Xuppu "Take Tikki as an example she is the kwami of creation, if there is another creation then it is not creation, it's replication" Xuppu, Sass and Orriko were trying to explain why Gabriel can't grant Tikki's power because it's being a concept, a concept only exist in the universe once and both Sass and Xuppu were reffering to the creation power aka Ladybug's power lucky charm as a concept. In the past kwamis are used to accross travel the universe without being able to interact with the other living beings, Kwamis were like sprit-like beings before the miraculouses however a Chinese mage figured out how to create special magical jewels, the Miraculouses. These jewels allowed the Kwamis to manifest in physical form, Tikki also explains to Monarch that when Plagg destroyed his own miraculous he lost his only means to communicate with the human world. So before Miraculouses Kwamis were sprit-like creatures which lacks a physical body but now they have an avatar that could interact, communicate with the human world but if their avatars gets killed or destroyed somehow they will turn back to their sprit-like forms which lacks a body.)



- Limited Absorption/Power Absorption (Miraculous absorps Kwami's and their powers for grant their powers to the holders)

- Limited Body puppetry and Paralysis indicument (Holders are able to control Kwami's actions, They can shut their mouth, can force them to give informations, even can paralyze their bodies as long as they want)

- Ladybug resistance to Limited Precognition
(Furious Fu couldn't predict Ladybug's plan's all details however he predicted the rest of it except Mariane's part)

- Cosmic awareness (Lucky charm was aware from second chance being used by Monarch it gave a different Lucky charm to Ladybug everytime Monarch used second chance)

- Memory Manipulation, Weather Manipulation and NPI for minds (Miraculous Cat Noir is able to erase memories from people's minds also it affected the weather somehow)

I already gave my opinion on Cosmic Consciousness, I agree with the rest, but I remain neutral with respect to Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation.

Talking about the new skills of the Revelator Chapter. Should Alya not have a Limited Form Change through Mirage?

 

[Lort15]

I already gave my opinion on Cosmic Consciousness, I agree with the rest, but I remain neutral with respect to Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation.

Talking about the new skills of the Revelator Chapter. Should Alya not have a Limited Form Change through Mirage?

ty and fox miraculous already have shapeshifting ability but it is not in the every fox miraculous holders profile, i've added it to monarch and also twilight added that to marinette you can check

 

[AsterReal]

power of creation only repairs the damage it can not destroy things thats why and ye it isnt info manip

If I meant that, since there was nothing to repair. The Miraculous Ladybug did not erase the memory of Alya, although Marinette should have him in her profile as a skill. Since I remember that in Season 3, the Miraculous Ladybug erased the memory of her and Adrien after de-akumatizing Oblivion.

ty and fox miraculous already have shapeshifting ability but it is not in the every fox miraculous holders profile, i've added it to monarch and also twilight added that to marinette you can check

If you already have two users of the Miraculous I guess it is okay.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Talking about the new skills of the Revelator Chapter. Should Alya not have a Limited Form Change through Mirage?

Her form isn't changing, it's only a layer of illusion around her making her seem like someone else, if someone touch her the illusion disappears

 

[Lort15]

If I meant that, since there was nothing to repair. The Miraculous Ladybug did not erase the memory of Alya, although Marinette should have him in her profile as a skill. Since I remember that in Season 3, the Miraculous Ladybug erased the memory of her and Adrien after de-akumatizing Oblivion.

honestly i think this a plot hole ngl miraculous ladybug also erased cat blancs universe and a sentimonster before i feel like writers are trying to make cat noirs power equally with ladybug

 

[AsterReal]

honestly i think this a plot hole ngl miraculous ladybug also erased cat blancs universe and a sentimonster before i feel like writers are trying to make cat noirs power equally with ladybug

Well it was pretty blatant to call it Miraculous Chat Noir. But if you consider Oblivion to be a Plot Hole, I think it is good if you discard the Manipulation of Memory for the Miraculous Ladybug.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

honestly i think this a plot hole ngl miraculous ladybug also erased cat blancs universe and a sentimonster before i feel like writers are trying to make cat noirs power equally with ladybug

If I meant that, since there was nothing to repair. The Miraculous Ladybug did not erase the memory of Alya, although Marinette should have him in her profile as a skill. Since I remember that in Season 3, the Miraculous Ladybug erased the memory of her and Adrien after de-akumatizing Oblivion.

I think it's restoration taking her back to her previous form where she had all her memories, so it didn't erase her memories nor did it gave her new ones, it brought her back into the state where she had her memories which resulted in losing the previous ones.

 

[AsterReal]

I think it's restoration taking her back to her previous form where she had all her memories, so it didn't erase her memories nor did it gave her new ones, it brought her back into the state where she had her memories which resulted in losing the previous ones.

Well since the Ladybug Miraculous has Time Manipulation in the Marinette Profile I guess okay.

 

[Lort15]

I think it's restoration taking her back to her previous form where she had all her memories, so it didn't erase her memories nor did it gave her new ones, it brought her back into the state where she had her memories which resulted in losing the previous ones.

i mean it must be same for rena rouge's situation she learned that info because of revelators power

 

[FentyBeauty]

i agree with resistances for marinette, powers from controlling the kwamis n stuff for holder, and cat noir’s stuff

im too slow to understand conceptual manipulation & the limited prediction + cosmic awareness stuff so im neutral for those

Memory Manipulation, Weather Manipulation and NPI for minds (Miraculous Cat Noir is able to erase memories from people's minds also it affected the weather somehow)

tbh this also seems like darkness manipulation bc when he did his miraculous cat noir thing it got darker around them when there was still some light at the center of his powers til everything did become dark n when that ended it just became brighter again

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

i mean it must be same for rena rouge's situation she learned that info because of revelators power

Marinetta not knowing who she is would be considered "broken" but Rouge knowing a secret Marinetta doesn't want her to know it's not

 

[Lort15]

Marinetta not knowing who she is would be considered "broken" but Rouge knowing a secret Marinetta doesn't want her to know it's not

Rena rougeu didn't want to know that she even said if she can forget that that would be good she rlly wants to forget that yet miraculous ladybug couldn't do that

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Rena rougeu didn't want to know that she even said if she can forget that that would be good she rlly wants to forget that yet miraculous ladybug couldn't do that

Didn't Lb said herself that her powers cannot repair non physical stuff.

we can't ignore the fact that Lucky charm gave Ladybug different objects everytime when second chance was used by Monarch if Lucky charm wasn't aware from Second chance it wouldn't give Ladybug a different object

Every time Monarch used his second chance, he altered the scenario, which in turn changed the outcome. As a result, if Lucky Charm had given her the same objects, they wouldn’t have worked as intended. Therefore, a different Lucky Charm was necessary.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Rena rougeu didn't want to know that she even said if she can forget that that would be good she rlly wants to forget that yet miraculous ladybug couldn't do that

Not wanting to know is different from being broken, it's all up to the definition of broken that miraculous uses.

Didn't Lb said herself that her powers cannot repair non physical stuff.

Nah, her power can do a lot of non physical stuff, some of that is already on her profile she can fix a lot of crap the villains do.

 

[Lort15]

Didn't Lb said herself that her powers cannot repair non physical stuff.

Ehm ehm oblivio

Every time Monarch used his second chance, he altered the scenario, which in turn changed the outcome. As a result, if Lucky Charm had given her the same objects, they wouldn’t have worked as intended. Therefore, a different Lucky Charm was necessary.

That's the problem if Lucky charm wasn't aware from the part where Monarch altered the scenario they would really lost if Lucky charm wasn't aware from that it really wouldn't give a different solution, i mean if it wasn't aware from the outcome has changed why would it give a different item it would act like Cat Noir and Ladybug who isn't even aware from second chance

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Ehm ehm oblivio

Anyways

That's the problem if Lucky charm wasn't aware from the part where Monarch altered the scenario they would really lost if Lucky charm wasn't aware from that it really wouldn't give a different solution, i mean if it wasn't aware from the outcome has changed why would it give a different item it would act like Cat Noir and Ladybug who isn't even aware from second chance

@Suigetsuhyugs wut you think?

 

[Lort15]

Not wanting to know is different from being broken, it's all up to the definition of broken that miraculous uses.

It must be like that in the oblivio everyone learned the secrets because of revelator's powers, revelator powers shows the truth to everyone, for repairing things they must forget the thing that revealed by revelator because this damage/thing caused by an akumatized villain

Nah, her power can do a lot of non physical stuff, some of that is already on her profile she can fix a lot of crap the villains do.

That's the problem Ladybug is saying that she can't fix non physical things she is saying memory isn't a physical damage so her lucky charm couldn't fix it

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Also alya knowing her secret wasn't any damage to alya's memory so to repair it was out of the question hence Chat noir has to use his power to fix/reset her memory.

 

[Lort15]

No, make a separate key, you lazy bum. A key for Kwamis where they are not hold down by Miraculous (¿) Even if it's just a single ability, clarity is of utmost importance.

Which is abstract existence only i can do it's not a problem, the miraculous is the thing makes them communicate, interact with the human world without them they are turning back to their non-physical form

 

[Lort15]

@TWILIGHT-OP btw not to be confused i'm only suggesting cosmic awareness to lucky charm (if tikki is the one who is controlling the Lucky charm she must be too)

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

@Suigetsuhyugs wut you think?

I think to some extent it makes sense, not always the scenario changed in ways that should significantly affect the object or the plan, in the end each object given by miraculous is not necessarily an object with a single use but based on Marinetta's personality it grants an object with very weird possibilities, and the miraculous is often somewhat aware of things that even Marinetta is not, such as going back in time to fix a damage she created in the first place like in the cat blank episode, or is aware that Marinetta by herself won't be enought so it gives her tips that she needs to see the guardian.
Although I'm not sure if that fits into cosmic awareness.

 

[Lort15]

Also alya knowing her secret wasn't any damage to alya's memory so to repair it was out of the question hence Chat noir has to use his power to fix/reset her memory.

I don't really have any beef with the feat it's just miraculous have plot hole like why Ladybug is saying she can't fix ppls minds because it's not a physical damage? She repaired ppls memories in oblivio already

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

I don't really have any beef with the feat it's just miraculous have plot hole like why Ladybug is saying she can't fix ppls minds because it's not a physical damage? She repaired ppls memories in oblivio already

It can only restore damage caused by villains, whether physical or non-physical. And Alya, knowing that Secret wasn’t something that needed repairing but destroying, and lb can't destroy.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

@Reiner04, @Vzearr, @Dalesean027 any help would be appreciated

 

[Lort15]

It can only restore damage caused by villains, whether physical or non-physical. And Alya, knowing that Secret wasn’t something that needed repairing but destroying, and lb can't destroy.

that's not the point i was reffering to but whatever i will just wait for staffs