Ben 10: Mana Information Page Clean-up

[Firestorm808]

At the moment, the page lists the following abilities:

• Conceptual Manipulation & Dimensional Manipulation: Type 2 [4-D] - Any sapient species can potentially learn to manipulate mana, an essence for every being in the universe, and it is higher-dimensional flow. It is tied directly to a person's being, allowing one to control the life energy and magic. Also Mana create magical worlds, and causes a change in the legerdomain.
• Non-Physical Interaction:
  • Intangibility [Immaterial]: Mana can interact with Ectonurites even when they are intangible. Can harm Ectonurites in phasing form.
  • Life-Energy, Energy, Dimensional, Concept [Type 2] and Spiritual: Mana can interact with Anodite, which is a spirit made of mana, a concept and higher-dimensional flows. Can interact with mana, such as here, here and here.
  • Abstract Existence [Type 2 {Concept & Name}]: Mana users can affect Alpha Rune, which is the secret true name of mana and even source of mana, such that if it either gets destroyed or disappear, Legerdomain would be destroyed. It has control over abstraction.

Here's the proposal as to why they should either get new justifications, moved under a different ability, or removed in general.

• Concept Manipulation was reconfirmed in a previous thread to not be accepted and will be removed.
• Dimensional Manipulation is the ability to manipulate the dimensions that aren't limited to just three-dimensional space. Its possible applications include being able to warp the dimensionality of a target to a higher or lower dimension, being capable of phasing someone in and out of existence by changing their positions in other dimensions, affecting a target by making it exist in more than one plane, among many other abilities.
  • All that was provided in the original thread was that the Multi-dimensional property Mana allows shields to prevent dimensional shifting from one area to another. It doesn't actually manipulate dimensions, let alone on a 4-D level. Being multi-dimension doesn't mean you manipulate dimensions on a 4-D level by default.
• Intangibility [Immaterial]
  • The clip only presents Gwen using a mana to expel Ectonurites possessing their hosts.
  • I consider this as just Purification unless we're, by default, allowing spiritual purification as a form of Intangible Interaction.
    • Purification is the act of removing contaminants from a person or object. This can either mean cleansing evil spirits or filtering out materials within a substance (ex. reverse osmosis in the purification of water). In the former case, this can be seen as a form of Soul Manipulation or Spiritual Healing and can be used as a counter to Possession. Purification can also be used to remove status effects.
  • It was also determined that Ectonurites are selectively intangible. They are not perpetually intangible. | https://vsbattles.com/threads/ben-10-update-fixing-and-additions-part-9.176885/post-6998119

@DarkDragonMedeus @Reiner04

 

[Reiner04]

Yeah, your proposed changes are fine by me, given some of the abilities that were added previously didn't had proper consensus.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

At the moment, the page lists the following abilities:

• Conceptual Manipulation & Dimensional Manipulation: Type 2 [4-D] - Any sapient species can potentially learn to manipulate mana, an essence for every being in the universe, and it is higher-dimensional flow. It is tied directly to a person's being, allowing one to control the life energy and magic. Also Mana create magical worlds, and causes a change in the legerdomain.

I'm not against to being CM should be removed, but Dimensional Manipulation is for manipulate higher-dimensional, it accepted the mana is higher-dimensional energy.

• Non-Physical Interaction:
  • Intangibility [Immaterial]: Mana can interact with Ectonurites even when they are intangible. Can harm Ectonurites in phasing form.
  • Life-Energy, Energy, Dimensional, Concept [Type 2] and Spiritual: Mana can interact with Anodite, which is a spirit made of mana, a concept and higher-dimensional flows. Can interact with mana, such as here, here and here.
  • Abstract Existence [Type 2 {Concept & Name}]: Mana users can affect Alpha Rune, which is the secret true name of mana and even source of mana, such that if it either gets destroyed or disappear, Legerdomain would be destroyed. It has control over abstraction.

Here's the proposal as to why they should either get new justifications, moved under a different ability, or removed in general.

• Concept Manipulation was reconfirmed in a previous thread to not be accepted and will be removed.
• Dimensional Manipulation is the ability to manipulate the dimensions that aren't limited to just three-dimensional space. Its possible applications include being able to warp the dimensionality of a target to a higher or lower dimension, being capable of phasing someone in and out of existence by changing their positions in other dimensions, affecting a target by making it exist in more than one plane, among many other abilities.

• Its possible applications include being able to warp the dimensionality of a target to a higher or lower dimension

Shown here they can blocking off dimensional shifting

• being capable of phasing someone in and out of existence by changing their positions in other dimensions

Can drag people from the Space-Time barrier

• • All that was provided in the original thread was that the Multi-dimensional property Mana allows shields to prevent dimensional shifting from one area to another.

Not only shields but also mana itself, is passive as shown when Gwen used here mana everytime, it should passive.

• • It doesn't actually manipulate dimensions, let alone on a 4-D level.

It manipulate dimensions on space-time level/4-D

• • Being multi-dimension doesn't mean you manipulate dimensions on a 4-D level by default.

Higher-Dimensional is at least 4-D

• Intangibility [Immaterial]
  • The clip only presents Gwen using a mana to expel Ectonurites possessing their hosts.
  • I consider this as just Purification unless we're, by default, allowing spiritual purification as a form of Intangible Interaction.
    • Purification is the act of removing contaminants from a person or object. This can either mean cleansing evil spirits or filtering out materials within a substance (ex. reverse osmosis in the purification of water). In the former case, this can be seen as a form of Soul Manipulation or Spiritual Healing and can be used as a counter to Possession. Purification can also be used to remove status effects.
  • It was also determined that Ectonurites are selectively intangible. They are not perpetually intangible. | https://vsbattles.com/threads/ben-10-update-fixing-and-additions-part-9.176885/post-6998119

The clip shown they in intangible, also when they use their possession ability, they will be in the Intangible form. Also this is Non-Physical Interaction (Intangibility [Immaterial]) not Phasing. Also some characters has Non-Physical Interaction due to same thing.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

All the proposals look great to me, I agree.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright.

 

[Firestorm808]

Yeah, your proposed changes are fine by me, given some of the abilities that were added previously didn't had proper consensus.

Looks alright.

Thank you for your time.

Should spiritual purification be considered a form of Intangible Interaction?

 

[Reiner04]

Thank you for your time.

Should spiritual purification be considered a form of Intangible Interaction?

I am not sure. I think just keeping it as purification should be fine as that alone can fill the bill here.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

I am not sure. I think just keeping it as purification should be fine as that alone can fill the bill here.

There many characters has Non-Physical Interaction due to Purification, for example: Lloyd

Lloyd Garmadon

The son of the evil Lord Garmadon and his childhood sweetheart Misako, Lloyd Montgomery Garmadon was sent to boarding school early on in his childhood by his parents to keep him safe. However, Lloyd ran away from the school in order to follow in his father’s footsteps. Accidentally releasing the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

• Soul and Mind (Comparable to Lloyd, who can affect souls and minds)

 

[Firestorm808]

There many characters has Non-Physical Interaction due to Purification, for example: Lloyd

Lloyd Garmadon

The son of the evil Lord Garmadon and his childhood sweetheart Misako, Lloyd Montgomery Garmadon was sent to boarding school early on in his childhood by his parents to keep him safe. However, Lloyd ran away from the school in order to follow in his father’s footsteps. Accidentally releasing the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

LLoyd doesn't have Non-Physical Interaction on his page.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

LLoyd doesn't have Non-Physical Interaction on his page.

He has it but it add in FSM's page as he has all powers of FSM

The First Spinjitzu Master

The First Spinjitzu Master was the first person to practice Spinjitzu and created the land of Ninjago. He was born in the Realm of Oni and Dragons, and was, in fact, the first and only hybrid. As a consequence, he possessed both the Powers of the Dragons and the ones of the Oni. Eventually, he...

vsbattles.fandom.com

• Soul and Mind (Comparable to Lloyd, who can affect souls and minds)

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

I'm not against to being CM should be removed, but Dimensional Manipulation is for manipulate higher-dimensional, it accepted the mana is higher-dimensional energy.


Shown here they can blocking off dimensional shifting

Can drag people from the Space-Time barrier

Not only shields but also mana itself, is passive as shown when Gwen used here mana everytime, it should passive.

It manipulate dimensions on space-time level/4-D

Higher-Dimensional is at least 4-D

The clip shown they in intangible, also when they use their possession ability, they will be in the Intangible form. Also this is Non-Physical Interaction (Intangibility [Immaterial]) not Phasing. Also some characters has Non-Physical Interaction due to same thing.

LLoyd doesn't have Non-Physical Interaction on his page.

Do you can reply to this

 

[Firestorm808]

I'm not against to being CM should be removed, but Dimensional Manipulation is for manipulate higher-dimensional, it accepted the mana is higher-dimensional energy.


Shown here they can blocking off dimensional shifting

Can drag people from the Space-Time barrier

Not only shields but also mana itself, is passive as shown when Gwen used here mana everytime, it should passive.

It manipulate dimensions on space-time level/4-D

Higher-Dimensional is at least 4-D

The clip shown they in intangible, also when they use their possession ability, they will be in the Intangible form. Also this is Non-Physical Interaction (Intangibility [Immaterial]) not Phasing. Also some characters has Non-Physical Interaction due to same thing.

1. Being multi-dimensional doesn't inherently mean anything.
2. That's not what it means. To "warp the dimensionality of a target to a higher or lower dimension" means being able to turn a 3-D person into a 2-D or a 4-D object.
3. That's not what it means. To "phase someone in and out of existence by changing their positions in other dimensions" means to literally change their position relative to another dimension. IE: I disappeared from 3-D space because I changed my relative position in 5-D space. Gwen physically reached inside and pulled Ben out of the white wall.
4. The only example we are given in the show is through the use of shields/walls/barriers to halt dimensional shifting movement.
5. No, it doesn't manipulate dimensions.
6. Being Mutli-dimensional doesn't mean anything.
7. I defer to other staff on the Purification/NPI overlap.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

1. Being multi-dimensional doesn't inherently mean anything.

It energy of universe itself, and it makes 4-D Realm, so it should 4-D due to energy makes 4-D or higher due to energy of universe?

1. The only example we are given in the show is through the use of shields/walls/barriers to halt dimensional shifting movement.

Also we see it here in other abilities

 

[Firestorm808]

It energy of universe itself, and it makes 4-D Realm, so it should 4-D due to energy makes 4-D or higher due to energy of universe?

Also we see it here in other abilities

Do we have precedence on this site for that sort of reasoning for Higher Dimensional Existance in this case for Mana?

I'm talking about constructs in general being able to block it.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Do we have precedence on this site for that sort of reasoning for Higher Dimensional Existance in this case for Mana?

Magic from Marvel: Magic has HDE (and 5-D Potency) due to magic make higher-dimensional beings

• The Faltines, who are higher-dimensional entities, are stated to be entirely made of magic.

I think also Astral Forms has 1-A due to same thing (as Mana is energy of universe, and come from high dimension called Legerdomain)

The Astral Plane is also stated to be the realm of Idea, Thought, and Narrative, as well as a substrate of Earth-616<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/T..._and_Telepathy_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-:0-2"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a>, and is stated to be "The edge of reality. The shores of oblivion. The realm of mind and spirit that exists between being and non-being"<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/T...and_Telepathy_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-:1-23"><span>[</span>23<span>]</span></a>. Doctor Strange also states that doing direct surgery on Eternity is to "operate on the astral plane"<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/T...e,_and_Telepathy_(Marvel_Comics)#cite_note-24"><span>[</span>24<span>]</span></a> in the same way one would say they will "operate on a patient". Both of these statements indicate that the Astral Plane stands in the outermost layer of Earth-616, likely in what would be Eternity's "skin" or body, going by Doctor Strange's comment. Because of the Astral Plane being on the very edge of Universal Eternity, who is 1-A in nature, this would make the Astral Plane a 1-A realm, which in turn would apply to all Astral Forms in regards to their very nature/potency

Dark Ki from SDBH/DBH has Low 1-C/5-D due to affect hypertimeline

.The potency of these special Ki is at least Low Complex Multiversal (Low 1-C), Dark Ki is capable of affecting 5-dimensional hypertimeline

Also Meta Nanite has IM (with 4-D Potency) due to being fundamental building block of reality

• Information Manipulation (Type 2; Could erase all of existence, which includes Rex's Dimension where space, time, matter, energy, etc... are fundamental building blocks of reality.)

I'm talking about constructs in general being able to block it.

Ok

 

[Firestorm808]

It energy of universe itself, and it makes 4-D Realm, so it should 4-D due to energy makes 4-D or higher due to energy of universe?

Also we see it here in other abilities

Wait. Why are you suggesting that mana is responsible for the time dimension for the realm? The time dimensions came from the Anlg.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Wait. Why are you suggesting that mana is responsible for the time dimension for the realm? The time dimensions came from the Anlg.

Isn't Legerdomain has different time flows. And what do you mean?

 

[Firestorm808]

Isn't Legerdomain has different time flows. And what do you mean?

What I mean is, why is Legerdomain a 4-D realm?

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

What I mean is, why is Legerdomain a 4-D realm?

Due to Realm has own space-time dimension and lack physical laws different from the rest of the dimensions

 

[Emerald]

Does interacting with AE type 2 grants you NPI? I thought it didnt

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Does interacting with AE type 2 grants you NPI? I thought it didnt

Honkai characters has AE Type 2 NPL

Abstract Existence [Type 2: Concept {Type 3: Vision, Sight & Death}]; Can affect Allseer, which embodies the concepts of vision and sight<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/M..._If_One_Dreams_At_Midnight_Special_Program-11"><span>[</span>11<span>]</span></a> as well as Something Unto Death, which is a sort of figurative amalgam of complex concepts, which for now is known as death<a href="https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/M..._If_One_Dreams_At_Midnight_Special_Program-11"><span>[</span>11<span>]</span></a>

 

[Vietthai96]

Does interacting with AE type 2 grants you NPI? I thought it didnt

No, it didn't, AE2 mean your existence are dependent on abstraction, not the abstraction itself. So most of the time AE2 characters have physical body, of course there are case of AE2 characters have non-physical body, but the verse need to show it, by default AE2 characters have physical body and everyone can interact with

It energy of universe itself, and it makes 4-D Realm, so it should 4-D due to energy makes 4-D or higher due to energy of universe?

Do we have precedence on this site for that sort of reasoning for Higher Dimensional Existance in this case for Mana?

I'm talking about constructs in general being able to block it.

I assume this is talking about Dimensional Manipulation, according to the page, the ability to manipulate more than basic 3 dimensions grant Limited Dimensional Manipulation, of course being multi-dimensional energy or simply be able to affect higher dimensional constructs without futher contexts do not grant Limited Dimensional Manipulation, as these feats could simply be AP/DC feats or hax potency feats

Honkai characters has AE Type 2 NPL

Ngl, i think this should be removed, but this isn't HI3rd revision thread

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

I assume this is talking about Dimensional Manipulation, according to the page, the ability to manipulate more than basic 3 dimensions grant Limited Dimensional Manipulation, of course being multi-dimensional energy or simply be able to affect higher dimensional constructs without futher contexts do not grant Limited Dimensional Manipulation, as these feats could simply be AP/DC feats or hax potency feats

I'm better sure, the nature of mana allows mana shields to blocking off "space-time" dimensional shifting not 3-D

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm better sure, the nature of mana allows mana shields to blocking off "space-time" dimensional shifting not 3-D

What is the context of this dimensional shifting?, if it is just another space-time, dimensional jump then it isn't dimension manipulation

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

What is the context of this dimensional shifting?, if it is just another space-time, dimensional jump then it isn't dimension manipulation

I have another feat for DM, as Mana can change a 2-D picture to a 3-D being. I was reinforcing your hypothesis that I have an effect on space-time dimension/barrier of space-time

 

[Firestorm808]

I have another feat for DM, as Mana can change a 2-D picture to a 3-D being. I was reinforcing your hypothesis that I have an effect on space-time dimension/barrier of space-time

The ability to create creatures from existing drawings would fall under a form of Animation, not Dimension Manipulation.

This is in line with the spell used, Actum, which animates objects.

 

[Firestorm808]

In any case the accepted changes will be applied.

 

[Firestorm808]

Revisions added. Closing.