Nanatsu no Taizai: Upgrade Low 5-B and FTL+

[Demon_Lord18]

It absorbed some and King had his pollen garden too

Yes, but from what I remember he only used it in the first attack.

The second lightning wasn’t « God’s Thunder » the sky didn’t turn red

The second was a "God’s Thunder", the sky turned red.

The third put them to the ground iirc

It was in the second one that they fell, in the third one they held up very well.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

The panel says otherwise

Where? I didn't see anything on the panel saying that he and Diane were seriously injured.

Tristan has a better feat than DM2 Meliodas

Definitely. If Meliodas at least tried to attack with his magic-imbued weapon, we wouldn't need Tristan.

They don’t talk about his OG self they talk about the Meliodas they know

I can see, although earlier Merlin was talking about her emotions and not power level

Cath absorbed a whole arm Chaos just give Small parts of his Powers to his subordinates

He does not give such small shares to his subordinates.

Lancelot wouldn’t risk killing him lol

Fair enough.

Sword that can regen but still couldn’t deploy the entire SR power without breaking

Lancelot says that the weapons can't withstand his power, not that he can't use all of it without a sacred treasure.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

I have only read the OP so far, but if you could provide a summary of what has been discussed, I would appreciate it.

1. Makai thinks that the Demon King should have 5 times greater endurance for withstanding 5 Full Counters and disagrees that knights with higher ranks should scale above Jericho.
2. EldemadeDityjon disagrees with Zeldris and the others receiving a downgrade from the DK (This is just for context, the arguments I used have been abandoned).
3. Here I argue why they should be downscarling from the DK.
4. Here he agrees with Zeldris scaling and asks why Post-Revival Meliodas scales.
5. Here I respond.
6. Here he backtracks and disagrees because he thinks the DK was holding back.
7. Here I respond, arguing that DK was not holding back.
8. Makai disagrees with some things in the scale.
9. Here I counter-argue

You can find the rest of the debate just by scrolling down.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Same thoughts as Makai

I was asked to comment here. Im not familiar with NNT but the OP looks ok.

Do you still agree with the CRT?

I don't have an opinion on the thread yet.

Sorry to bother you. Will you give your opinion on the CRT, or are you not interested in it? As an experienced member of the verse, your opinion would be of great help.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

If we ignore the context, this makes sense. At no point did he consider attacking or fighting Elizabeth, so this is irrelevant.

I explained why it's clearly holding back with Meliodas statement. He was understanding her
Even when DK Meli form was casually brushing them off until Ban appeared. They didn't even put a scratch on DK Meli without Ban help.

Diane had a minor head bleed, and Mael did not have any serious injuries.

Appeal to ignorance.
Scan literally shows how much damage they have received.

This is not an argument, and our wiki says otherwise. So next time, I will simply ignore it when your argument is: 'It's not the same, so it doesn't scale.' The wiki allows Dowscaling, so it scales.

Surviving an attack ≠ they automatically scales to it.

What context am I ignoring? Dude, I'll say it again because you might not have seen it: Meliodas AM is only quantifiable (10 times stronger) because of Tristan. Tristan does not scale to AM, it's exactly the opposite, AM scales to Tristan because he doesn't have a quantifiable feat on his own. The scan you're using to say this shows that he became stronger than ever before. Yes, that Escanor outside of The One couldn't beat Meliodas, that's already known.

No you are the one really ignoring the context.
Meliodas was still growing stronger even after the fight against The One Escanor. I literally posted the scans

She is not at the level of the DK, this has never been argued by me or anyone here. Cath, with a fragment of Chaos, equaled Meliodas' second mark, although this is irrelevant here, since Chaos Melascula scales to Base Tristan.

Yeah sure you can scale her to second Cursed mark Meliodas nothing more

Yes, this matters and supports the argument that everyone should be downgraded from the DK. Tristan did not get nearly killed like Nanashi, and Lancelot made that attack with a sword created by Chaos, it's not a normal sword.

Again you are ignoring Lancelot is their ally. He wouldn't go for the kill unlike the Arther knights.

Strawman fallacy. I NEVER said that Meliodas AM couldn't destroy the cocoon.

Then stop scaling Tristan to AM Meliodas. It's really unquatified

 

[Demon_Lord18]

I explained why it's clearly holding back with Meliodas statement.

No, he wasn't holding back, lol. You can't say he was holding back in a fight just because at one point he took someone hostage and thought they couldn't do anything against him.

He was understanding her
Even when DK Meli form was casually brushing them off until Ban appeared.

Ignoring them? He was blocking their attacks, I don't know where you saw him ignoring them.

They didn't even put a scratch on DK Meli without Ban help.

Yes, because he blocked them.

Appeal to ignorance.
Scan literally shows how much damage they have received.

No, we literally see that the damage to Diane is minor and Mael's damage is not serious. This is not an argument from ignorance, we have concrete evidence contrary to your claim.

Surviving an attack ≠ they automatically scales to it.

This is not the only reason, and it also helps to show the consistency in the scale. The main point is Nakaba's quote, and this helps support the quote by showing that it is consistent and that the gap is not nearly 1 billion times between them:

For the same reason as Zeldris and the other Commandments. This Meliodas is superior to the Unsealed Meliodas who can take on a Drole with his weakened magic.

Diane can withstand an attack from the Demon King (she had used Drole's dance shortly before, perhaps she was still under its effect), she can also endure blows from the Demon King at full power, although the circumstances are unknown since it happened off-screen. She can also withstand attacks from Mael with 4 Commandments, although she appears to have taken quite a bit of damage (this would be her base version). This same Diane is compared to Drole (who can strangely injure a weakened True Form Chandler). King can hurt Chandler who is comparable to Zeldris.

No you are the one really ignoring the context.
Meliodas was still growing stronger even after the fight against The One Escanor. I literally posted the scans

What does this have to do with what I wrote?
Meliodas is said to be returning to his state as the leader of the commandments because the DK stole his emotion, this implies that he was returning to being cruel as before and not strong as before.

Yeah sure you can scale her to second Cursed mark Meliodas nothing more

This Meliodas scales to the DK, so in other words, you agree that everyone should be downgraded from the DK. Melascula is scaled below Meliodas from Cursed by Light.

Again you are ignoring Lancelot is their ally. He wouldn't go for the kill unlike the Arther knights.

Lancelot also doesn't do that against all of Arthur's knights.

Then stop scaling Tristan to AM Meliodas. It's really unquatified

I'll put it in bold this time to see if you can see it, because it seems to be difficult.

Tristan does not scale to AM, it's exactly the opposite, AM scales to Tristan

I'm not going to go in circles here, now I'll wait for LephyrTheRevanchist's opinion to apply the accepted things.

 

[Nierre]

Not sure if this is relevant, but Fusions can be accepted as multiplying two equal beings power, as we do that for Fused Momoshiki in Boruto, so if there's logical reasoning to assume that the fusion is at least 2x then it's good to go.

As regards to this thread, I'll have to look through this in the (not-so) distant future

 

[speedster352]

We need some staff to review this. The scale seems to be going all over the place.

 

[Makai641001]

Where? I didn't see anything on the panel saying that he and Diane were seriously injured.

???
Here Mael bleeding and sweating Elisabeth coughing on the ground etc…

Definitely. If Meliodas at least tried to attack with his magic-imbued weapon, we wouldn't need Tristan.

Wouldn’t really change much his enchantment would get absorbed since it’s… darkness

I can see, although earlier Merlin was talking about her emotions and not power level

Yeah AM Meli <<<< OG Meli

He does not give such small shares to his subordinates.

Bro… Ironside and Pelle are litteraly Made to be members of the Four perils not basic knights with chaos staffs

Fair enough.

Lancelot says that the weapons can't withstand his power, not that he can't use all of it without a sacred treasure.

If It can’t contain his power he can’t deploy It entirely because the weapon can’t contain It

This is not the only reason, and it also helps to show the consistency in the scale. The main point is Nakaba's quote, and this helps support the quote by showing that it is consistent and that the gap is not nearly 1 billion times between them:

It’s not a billion but some of these characters may have to be downscaled a bit more

This Meliodas scales to the DK, so in other words, you agree that everyone should be downgraded from the DK. Melascula is scaled below Meliodas from Cursed by Light.

He is talking about pre purgatory DM2 nos EOS DM2 Mel

Lancelot also doesn't do that against all of Arthur's knights.

Not against weak ones.
He does against an uncontrollable wrath demon like Tristan Without any intent to kill him

 

[Makai641001]

Not sure if this is relevant, but Fusions can be accepted as multiplying two equal beings power, as we do that for Fused Momoshiki in Boruto, so if there's logical reasoning to assume that the fusion is at least 2x then it's good to go.

Yeah they are basically 2 halfs of a same original being

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Here Mael bleeding and sweating Elisabeth coughing on the ground etc…

Elizabeth is already standing in this same panel, and we see on a later page that she has very few injuries.

Wouldn’t really change much his enchantment would get absorbed since it’s… darkness

The darkness has never shown this characteristic, so it is an unfounded statement.

Bro… Ironside and Pelle are litteraly Made to be members of the Four perils not basic knights with chaos staffs

Galand and Melascula are not basic warriors with the Staff of Chaos.

If It can’t contain his power he can’t deploy It entirely because the weapon can’t contain It

The weapon breaks after the magic ends, not during, so this is not a problem.

It’s not a billion but some of these characters may have to be downscaled a bit more

Most characters scale much lower; I am just taking the old numbers and adjusting them. Currently, it would be like this.

Spoiler: Scale

Unsealed Mel = 46.57 Exatons

King, Derieri, and co = 189 Exatons

Estarossa/Base Post-Revival Meliodas = 374 Exatons

Tarmiel/Sariel = 749 Exatons

Demon Mark Post-Revival Meliodas = 1.5 Zettatons

Assault Mode Post-Revival, Enchanter Tristan = 3 Zettatons

True Body Ludo, OG Demon = 6 Zettatons

DK Meliodas, Corand Arc The One Escanor = 30 Zettatons

100% DK Zeldris = 60 Zettatons

DK Britannia = 204 Zettatons

 

[Makai641001]

Elizabeth is already standing in this same panel, and we see on a later page that she has very few injuries.

It doesn’t matter, she was put to the ground by the attack in the first place and they were harmed

The darkness has never shown this characteristic, so it is an unfounded statement.

Mh

Galand and Melascula are not basic warriors with the Staff of Chaos.

They had Chaos staffs iirc.
Btw they didn’t have the Chaos creature physiology (Small eyes appearing everywhere on their body etc…)

The weapon breaks after the magic ends, not during, so this is not a problem.

According to King, a Sacred Treasure allows the user to draw out their powers to their full potential. He exemplifies the strength by using a lake and a cup as a comparison for his use of Chastiefol in combat.

Most characters scale much lower; I am just taking the old numbers and adjusting them. Currently, it would be like this.

Spoiler: Scale

Unsealed Mel = 46.57 Exatons

King, Derieri, and co = 189 Exatons

Estarossa/Base Post-Revival Meliodas = 374 Exatons

Tarmiel/Sariel = 749 Exatons

Demon Mark Post-Revival Meliodas = 1.5 Zettatons

Spoiler: Scale

Tristan should be there

Assault Mode Post-Revival, Enchanter Tristan = 3 Zettatons

His feat surpasses DM2 but AM is unquantifiably > (Tristan also uses light while Meli used his Darkness/negative energy that got absorbed lol)

True Body Ludo, OG Demon = 6 Zettatons

Yeah Mael should be There too with a « higher » rating OG demon should get a higher rating too with Crisis

DK Meliodas, Corand Arc The One Escanor = 30 Zettatons

Hell nah Zel stated that this TO Escanor would have lost to AM Meliodas if he didn’t let his guard down he can’t be 10x higher

100% DK Zeldris = 60 Zettatons

DK Britannia = 204 Zettatons

Yeah

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

No, he wasn't holding back, lol. You can't say he was holding back in a fight just because at one point he took someone hostage and thought they couldn't do anything against him.

I didn't say it's because of "hostage" situation. I was referring to Meliodas' comment about the Demon King underestimating Elizabeth. Anyway, I'll get back to this latee. I'm currently revising the fight.

Ignoring them? He was blocking their attacks, I don't know where you saw him ignoring them.

Yes, because he blocked them.

If you look at the scan, Diana's attack directly connected with him (his back), while Mael's attack was blocked. We know that Mael has considerably greater strength compared to Diana. King is obviously comparable to Zeldris and is superior to Diana. Also, Mael and King have around a one-shot difference in attack potency. So, at best, I can agree that King and Mael's attacks might have had some power to damage Demon King Meliodas, but not Diana's.

No, we literally see that the damage to Diane is minor and Mael's damage is not serious. This is not an argument from ignorance, we have concrete evidence contrary to your claim.

Elizabeth is already standing in this same panel, and we see on a later page that she has very few injuries.

Dude, you're acting like they don't have healing abilities. Like Makai pointed out, those injuries were pretty serious. I'd call it dishonest to claim they weren’t, just because those characters have healing—it doesn't mean they never got damaged seriously.

This is not the only reason, and it also helps to show the consistency in the scale. The main point is Nakaba's quote, and this helps support the quote by showing that it is consistent and that the gap is not nearly 1 billion times between them:

commandments are not on Seven deadly sins who is comparable to DK (except Diana and Gowther I guess)

What does this have to do with what I wrote?
Meliodas is said to be returning to his state as the leader of the commandments because the DK stole his emotion, this implies that he was returning to being cruel as before and not strong as before.

He is growing stronger—that's what the scans state. It doesn’t matter whether it’s due to emotions or not. In fact, you should understand that he was holding back because of his emotions and was regaining his original strength as he lost them.

This Meliodas scales to the DK, so in other words, you agree that everyone should be downgraded from the DK. Melascula is scaled below Meliodas from Cursed by Light.

Lancelot also doesn't do that against all of Arthur's knights.

The fact that he said "near death to fully healed" suggests he wasn’t holding back. Saying he was holding back here seems like headcanon, and he shouldn’t have known that the weapon was capable of containing his power. So, I believe he was using a considerable amount of output.

I'll put it in bold this time to see if you can see it, because it seems to be difficult.

Sure, it's my fault for misunderstanding AM Meliodas' scaling you presented. I'll drop this point, but I still disagree with Tristan's scaling until I see why Melascula's cocoon is considered 5-B in durability. Or is there another possible reason for his scaling?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Snip

Actually, I checked Demon King Zeldris' feats.

The Demon King admitted that he had regained his full power.

Escanor performed better than against his fight with AM Meliodas.

I'm curious how this affects the scaling because Escanor, without The One, usually can't put up a decent fight against even AM Meliodas. Yet here, he's holding his own against the Demon King. On the other hand, the Demon King puts up a good fight against The One Escanor, while AM Meliodas got instantly destroyed.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

It doesn’t matter, she was put to the ground by the attack in the first place and they were harmed

It hardly suffered any damage; being thrown to the ground is irrelevant.

Mh

Hell Blaze is not darkness.

Btw they didn’t have the Chaos creature physiology (Small eyes appearing everywhere on their body etc…)

This only happens at the beginning; the eyes disappear afterward.

His feat surpasses DM2 but AM is unquantifiably > (Tristan also uses light while Meli used his Darkness/negative energy that got absorbed lol)

We know that AM Meliodas is superior to Tristan, but we don't know by how much. Therefore, he scales at least to Tristan's feat, neither above nor below.

Hell nah Zel stated that this TO Escanor would have lost to AM Meliodas if he didn’t let his guard down he can’t be 10x higher

He can endure an attack amplified 10 times by Meliodas and still land a hit on him.

If you look at the scan, Diana's attack directly connected with him (his back), while Mael's attack was blocked. We know that Mael has considerably greater strength compared to Diana. King is obviously comparable to Zeldris and is superior to Diana.

Diane is attacking him head-on, unless the Demon King's butt is positioned in front of his body.

Also, Mael and King have around a one-shot difference in attack potency.

Mael is inferior to King, lol.

Dude, you're acting like they don't have healing abilities. Like Makai pointed out, those injuries were pretty serious.

Nobody on the battlefield healed immediately after the attack. Elizabeth, while still on the ground, had few injuries. Diane had a small cut on her forehead, and Mael a wound on his chest. None of them used healing.

I'd call it dishonest to claim they weren’t, just because those characters have healing—it doesn't mean they never got damaged seriously.

When did I say they didn't suffer severe damage because of healing abilities? Only Mael and Elizabeth have that skill; King and Diane don't, and both also sustained minor injuries.

commandments are not on Seven deadly sins who is comparable to DK

The databook was published after this part of the manga, and its citation is more consistent than this one, as has been proven several times. It's not as if it were inconsistent with the manga's feats. Nakaba just changed his mind

He is growing stronger—that's what the scans state.

No, it states that he is stronger than ever, not that he is becoming stronger.

It doesn’t matter whether it’s due to emotions or not.

Of course it matters. He was becoming more ruthless due to the lack of emotions, not stronger.

In fact, you should understand that he was holding back because of his emotions and was regaining his original strength as he lost them.

He completely lost his emotions upon transforming; he didn’t lose them gradually during the fight.

 

[Makai641001]

Actually, I checked Demon King Zeldris' feats.

The Demon King admitted that he had regained his full power.

Escanor performed better than against his fight with AM Meliodas.

Escanor after receiving back Mael’s grace got a Huge amp he was recognised fully as the master of the sun not just a replacement.

I'm curious how this affects the scaling because Escanor, without The One, usually can't put up a decent fight against even AM Meliodas. Yet here, he's holding his own against the Demon King. On the other hand, the Demon King puts up a good fight against The One Escanor, while AM Meliodas got instantly destroyed.

Corand Arc Escanor could lose against AM Meli according to Zel.

It hardly suffered any damage; being thrown to the ground is irrelevant.

You’re delusional.
Diane: panting and visibly suffering
Elisabeth: coughing on the ground
Mael: sweating and bleeding + Ludo saying DK far exceeds him.
Demon_Lord18: « Nah they hardly suffered any damage »

Hell Blaze is not darkness.

Hellblaze is a dark power connected to the darkness of the Demon Realm. It allows the user to generate and control black flames that cannot be extinguished. In addition to its immensely devastating power, the flames also nullify any regenerative abilities including that of an immortal.

This only happens at the beginning; the eyes disappear afterward.

Arthur quite litteraly says that after absorbing this quantity of power they can ascend to sin lvl (That’s the goal of the four perils)
None of the others Chaos knights ascended to that lvl.

We know that AM Meliodas is superior to Tristan, but we don't know by how much. Therefore, he scales at least to Tristan's feat, neither above nor below.

Tristan should scale to DM2 and AM have a « higher rating

He can endure an attack amplified 10 times by Meliodas and still land a hit on him.

Meliodas was litteraly stated to have let his guard down.
Zel confirmed that the power he faced against The One may not be enough against a serious AM Meliodas

Diane is attacking him head-on, unless the Demon King's butt is positioned in front of his body.

Blud doesn’t seem to care tho

Mael is inferior to King, lol.

Yeah

Nobody on the battlefield healed immediately after the attack. Elizabeth, while still on the ground, had few injuries. Diane had a small cut on her forehead, and Mael a wound on his chest. None of them used healing.

They were damaged

When did I say they didn't suffer severe damage because of healing abilities? Only Mael and Elizabeth have that skill; King and Diane don't, and both also sustained minor injuries.

Diane didn’t sustain « minor injuries » she just didn’t get one shotted she was still on the ground at the end of the chapter lol King is just far > Diane

The databook was published after this part of the manga, and its citation is more consistent than this one, as has been proven several times. It's not as if it were inconsistent with the manga's feats. Nakaba just changed his mind

It’s not consistant.
Meliodas would 1v10
Ban would 1v10
King would too
The 10 commandments are specifically designed to be in balance of power with the 4 Archangels

No, it states that he is stronger than ever, not that he is becoming stronger.

We know for a fact that it is false OG Meliodas was stronger than that.
He was relative to Mael even at his peak AM Meli got knocked by TO Escanor

He completely lost his emotions upon transforming; he didn’t lose them gradually during the fight.

That’s his NE that intensifies and renforces him

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Diane is attacking him head-on, unless the Demon King's butt is positioned in front of his body.

We can clearly see where she was standing, and the attack impact was drawn on the back of his body. But if you want to believe the Demon King's butt is positioned in front of his body instead of accepting what I said with actual scans, sure.

Mael is inferior to King, lol.

Mael with Sunshine should be stronger than King overall.

Nobody on the battlefield healed immediately after the attack. Elizabeth, while still on the ground, had few injuries. Diane had a small cut on her forehead, and Mael a wound on his chest. None of them used healing.

Few injuries is headcanon as we clearly see her coughing blood. Even if we go by your arguments based on this panel we can clearly see others receiving great damage also Elizabeth scales above Diana by statements.

When did I say they didn't suffer severe damage because of healing abilities? Only Mael and Elizabeth have that skill; King and Diane don't, and both also sustained minor injuries.

Mael and Elizabeth can heal others.
Diana suffering minor injuries is headcanon where she was down for quite a time.

The databook was published after this part of the manga, and its citation is more consistent than this one, as has been proven several times.

There is nothing consistent about that statement

It's not as if it were inconsistent with the manga's feats. Nakaba just changed his mind

We don't consider statements that contradict the plot just because the author changed his mind after the series ended. That would be considered an outlier or a hyperbolic statement.

Also, you can't prove that the discussion was about Seven Deadly Sins in reference to their EOS versions, rather than a comparison to the Ten Commandments, which is what you haven't provided aby proof for so far.

No, it states that he is stronger than ever, not that he is becoming stronger.

It states that he is returning to the state he was in as the commander of the Ten Commandments.

Zeldris even comments that AM Meliodas shouldn’t have lost to Escanor; it might be because he wasn’t fighting seriously.

Of course it matters. He was becoming more ruthless due to the lack of emotions, not stronger.

Zeldris statement disagrees with your headcanon

He completely lost his emotions upon transforming; he didn’t lose them gradually during the fight.

He didn't lose his emotions for Elizabeth so obviously you are wrong.

 

[Majinere566]

Mael with Sunshine should be stronger than King overall.

He is not lmao

 

[Makai641001]

We can clearly see where she was standing, and the attack impact was drawn on the back of his body. But if you want to believe the Demon King's butt is positioned in front of his body instead of accepting what I said with actual scans, sure.

Agreed

Mael with Sunshine should be stronger than King overall.

Nah not at all

Few injuries is headcanon as we clearly see her coughing blood. Even if we go by your arguments based on this panel we can clearly see others receiving great damage also Elizabeth scales above Diana by statements.

Agreed

Mael and Elizabeth can heal others.
Diana suffering minor injuries is headcanon where she was down for quite a time.

Agreed

There is nothing consistent about that statement

We don't consider statements that contradict the plot just because the author changed his mind after the series ended. That would be considered an outlier or a hyperbolic statement.

Also, you can't prove that the discussion was about Seven Deadly Sins in reference to their EOS versions, rather than a comparison to the Ten Commandments, which is what you haven't provided aby proof for so far.

Exactly

It states that he is returning to the state he was in as the commander of the Ten Commandments.

Yeah

Zeldris even comments that AM Meliodas shouldn’t have lost to Escanor; it might be because he wasn’t fighting seriously.

Zeldris statement disagrees with your headcanon

Yeah

He didn't lose his emotions for Elizabeth so obviously you are wrong.

He wasn’t in love with her anymore he just wanted to keep his promise his emotions are what was trapped in purgatory

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

He is not lmao

Nah not at all

Can anyone clarify why not?

Escanor after receiving back Mael’s grace got a Huge amp he was recognised fully as the master of the sun not just a replacement.

Corand Arc Escanor could lose against AM Meli according to Zel.

I see.

Btw I have proposal scaling these characters to 5-B value.

• DK Meliodas (better vessel and should have more power due to adding his own to DK’s powers) > DK Zeldris
• Meliodas (his full power is stronger than DK; DK also admits Meliodas is on par with him at the beginning of their fight)
• Behemoth < DK ~ DK Zeldris (has regained his full power)
• Post-Purgatory Ban, King, and Escanor (could damage him)
• Merlin (obviously scales to it with certain magic)
• Original Demon (scales to King)
• Ludoshel (can hold his own against OD)
• Mael with Sunshine (one shotted OD)
• Elizabeth (stated to be comparable to the two above)
• AM Meliodas (scales to, if not above, the three above)
• Zeldris (I think he only scales to Mael with the emotional amp and OZ, as he couldn't do much without them. Also, Mael might have been holding back. Zeldris also had DK's magic power amps, if I’m understanding correctly, so I think it’s better to discuss.)
• The One Escanor (if we scale this version of Zeldris to Mael, who one shotted Original Demon).

 

[Syncornize]

being via multiplier I agree for speed. The rest is up for discussion, I don't want to add to the mess.

 

[Majinere566]

Can anyone clarify why not?

He full heartedly admitted he’s not capable of fighting The Demon King near noon if I remember correctly, whilst king alongside The top 3 sins fought and to my knowledge King Damages him

 

[Makai641001]

Can anyone clarify why not?

I see.

Btw I have proposal scaling these characters to 5-B value.

• DK Meliodas (better vessel and should have more power due to adding his own to DK’s powers) > DK Zeldris

DK Meli is only > incomplete DK Zel

• Meliodas (his full power is stronger than DK;

His full Power with commandments yeah

• DK also admits Meliodas is on par with him at the beginning of their fight)

Yeah he was stomping DK Zel in DM2 until he went back to his original power

• Behemoth < DK ~ DK Zeldris (has regained his full power)

DK Zeldris may be stronger due to the lake infinite output

• Post-Purgatory Ban, King, and Escanor (could damage him)

Ban could damage him as DK Meliodas only
King and Escanor could damage a little bit complete DK Zel
The One ultimate could fight equally with prime DK Zel

• Merlin (obviously scales to it with certain magic)

Yeah

• Original Demon (scales to King)

He doesn’t, King was using multiple forms from a pretty great distance Which reduce his power

• Ludoshel (can hold his own against OD)

Scales to OD that doesn’t Scale to DK

• Mael with Sunshine (one shotted OD)

We can argue

• Elizabeth (stated to be comparable to the two above)

She is stated to be equal or maybe above the 4 AA lvl imo only Mael is close

• AM Meliodas (scales to, if not above, the three above)

AM Meliodas isn’t that strong imo

• Zeldris (I think he only scales to Mael with the emotional amp and OZ, as he couldn't do much without them. Also, Mael might have been holding back. Zeldris also had DK's magic power amps, if I’m understanding correctly, so I think it’s better to discuss.)

Zel in CBL could damage SD he is shown to be really strong maybe due to being a vessel
In NNT he can one shot the Hermit that’s pretty dangerous

• The One Escanor (if we scale this version of Zeldris to Mael, who one shotted Original Demon).

EOS Escanor scales to prime DK

 

[Demon_Lord18]

You’re delusional.
Diane: panting and visibly suffering
Elisabeth: coughing on the ground
Mael: sweating and bleeding + Ludo saying DK far exceeds him.
Demon_Lord18: « Nah they hardly suffered any damage »

Sweating or coughing has no relation to the level of damage you suffered, lol. Diane wasn't gasping for air. The characters were already sweating even before suffering any attack. Lol, Ludociel, who didn't take any attacks, was sweating.

Hellblaze is a dark power connected to the darkness of the Demon Realm. It allows the user to generate and control black flames that cannot be extinguished. In addition to its immensely devastating power, the flames also nullify any regenerative abilities including that of an immortal.

Should this prove that Hellblaze is darkness? Hendrickson, even before injecting demon blood into his body, could use Hellblaze, but couldn't use darkness.

Arthur quite litteraly says that after absorbing this quantity of power they can ascend to sin lvl (That’s the goal of the four perils)
None of the others Chaos knights ascended to that lvl.

No one ascended to that level; it's a hyperbolic statement from Arthur. They just become incredibly stronger.

Tristan should scale to DM2 and AM have a « higher rating

Tristan scales to Meliodas 2DM, but Tristan with enchantments scales above him, and AM scales above this Tristan. However, since it is not known how much higher he scales, he is given at least the same level as Tristan with enchantments.

Meliodas was litteraly stated to have let his guard down.
Zel confirmed that the power he faced against The One may not be enough against a serious AM Meliodas

Zeldris even comments that AM Meliodas shouldn’t have lost to Escanor; it might be because he wasn’t fighting seriously.

It doesn't make sense for Meliodas to imbue his weapon with magic (10x amplifier) in a fight where he wasn't serious. The character's durability doesn't change just because he's casual. The same Zeldris says this here:

He's so strong, that he has a nasty habit of underestimating those stronger than him. So he got what was coming to him.

Blud doesn’t seem to care tho

If he didn't care, he wouldn't defend himself against the attacks. Ash Hendrickson didn't waste time defending himself from the knights' attacks because he knew they wouldn't hurt him.

Diane didn’t sustain « minor injuries » she just didn’t get one shotted she was still on the ground at the end of the chapter lol King is just far > Diane

If a slight bleeding is not considered minor damage, then I don't know what is. What does that have to do with the damage she suffered?

It’s not consistant.
Meliodas would 1v10
Ban would 1v10
King would too

Now this is a headcanon.

The 10 commandments are specifically designed to be in balance of power with the 4 Archangels

No, actually, it was the opposite.

We know for a fact that it is false OG Meliodas was stronger than that.
He was relative to Mael even at his peak AM Meli got knocked by TO Escanor

No, we don't know, and that statement comes from a reliable person, Merlin.
Mael fled from Demon Mark Meliodas in a battle they had in the Celestial Realm; he is far from being comparable to Assault Mode Meliodas. Escanor used energy that he had stored in his attack.

We can clearly see where she was standing, and the attack impact was drawn on the back of his body. But if you want to believe the Demon King's butt is positioned in front of his body instead of accepting what I said with actual scans, sure.

She doesn't attack the Demon King from behind, like, she is literally beside him..

Few injuries is headcanon as we clearly see her coughing blood. Even if we go by your arguments based on this panel we can clearly see others receiving great damage also Elizabeth scales above Diana by statements.

It's not a headcanon. Like... Nobody coughed up blood. Who else? Diane had a slight head injury (just like Elizabeth) and that's it, nothing more than that.I'm not placing Diane above Elizabeth.

Mael with Sunshine should be stronger than King overall.

Very funny

Mael and Elizabeth can heal others.
Diana suffering minor injuries is headcanon where she was down for quite a time.

Yes, we all know that they can, but they didn't. They all remain injured until the end of the fight, except for Mael and Elizabeth, who can heal passively.
So, what is in the manga has become headcanon? Diane clearly took very little damage, just a head injury and nothing more, and in 5 pages she was already getting up.

It states that he is returning to the state he was in as the commander of the Ten Commandments.

In terms of cruelty, she literally talks about her emotions in the same sentence.

HAVING HAD HIS EMOTIONS ROBBED OF HIM BY THE DEMON LORD, HE'S REVERTING INTO THE OLD MELIODAS.

He didn't lose his emotions for Elizabeth so obviously you are wrong.

Don't worry, I'll let Meliodas know that he was wrong when he said he didn't feel anything for Elizabeth anymore.

We don't consider statements that contradict the plot just because the author changed his mind after the series ended. That would be considered an outlier or a hyperbolic statement.

Also, you can't prove that the discussion was about Seven Deadly Sins in reference to their EOS versions, rather than a comparison to the Ten Commandments, which is what you haven't provided aby proof for so far.

This is not a hyperbole, although I don't mind letting it go.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

He full heartedly admitted he’s not capable of fighting The Demon King near noon if I remember correctly, whilst king alongside The top 3 sins fought and to my knowledge King Damages him

I bet you are talking about these?
Scan1
Scan2
I think it was talking him not being able to win though.

He doesn’t, King was using multiple forms from a pretty great distance Which reduce his power

Can I get the scan for reduce in power?
Because what I found is it just consumed more magic power that's all.

Scales to OD that doesn’t Scale to DK

I'm fine with Removing OD and others scaling though after we settle with Kings Damaging it or not with his full power.

She is stated to be equal or maybe above the 4 AA lvl imo only Mael is close

Isn't she is stated to be comparable to Mael and Ludeshel?

DK Meli is only > incomplete DK Zel

Sure I can go with this

His full Power with commandments yeah

Ok

Yeah he was stomping DK Zel in DM2 until he went back to his original power

I bet he was stronger than during Melascula Cocoon because of being Vessel to DK.

DK Zeldris may be stronger due to the lake infinite output

It's more like magic power was endless and he was recharging it. I don't think he got an amp from it.

Ban could damage him as DK Meliodas only

After checking the fight again yes you are right. Ban was fighting Alongside King and Escanor but he didn't do any damage

King and Escanor could damage a little bit complete DK Zel

Well this is durability stuff. They took same AOE attack. I think it's still fair to scale Ban to them

The One ultimate could fight equally with prime DK Zel

I agree with this

We can argue

Mael with Sunshine > OD
Mael with Sunshine > ON Zeldris

ON Zeldris took some small damage from Kings Massive AOE.
ON also cancelled out another AOE.
OD took the spear with no damage.

I'm fine with concluding Mael with Sunshine is not superior to King buf I think they should be around same level.

AM Meliodas isn’t that strong imo

If The One Escanor in EOS was stronger than The One who fought AM Meliodas sure then I'll drop this.

Zel in CBL could damage SD he is shown to be really strong maybe due to being a vessel

Yes that's why I'm suggesting we should seperate his keys

In NNT he can one shot the Hermit that’s pretty dangerous

If that's the case Mael just upscales from him though.

EOS Escanor scales to prime DK

Yes I completely agree

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Sweating or coughing has no relation to the level of damage you suffered, lol. Diane wasn't gasping for air. The characters were already sweating even before suffering any attack. Lol, Ludociel, who didn't take any attacks, was sweating.

Coughing and sweating are different things. Ludciel was scared while Diana was injured. You are arguments doesn't make sense on this topic anymore.

It doesn't make sense for Meliodas to imbue his weapon with magic (10x amplifier) in a fight where he wasn't serious. The character's durability doesn't change just because he's casual. The same Zeldris says this here:

Meliodas uses weapons even before Escanor got stronger. Does less damage

Later uses normal punches does more damage

All the more reason to assume he was not going all out. Him using weapons doesn't mean he was always amping himself, as you are trying to make it sound. It's logical to assume he only used a certain amount of power at that point, underestimating The One.

She doesn't attack the Demon King from behind, like, she is literally beside him..

She is swinging her hammer, and it doesn’t matter if she was beside him at the beginning before she started attacking. Anyone can see that the impact from her attacks was drawn on the backside of Demon King Meliodas, where he didn’t care at all. You completely ignored the fact that I already pointed this out.

Mael with Sunshine attacks DK Meli from front and at that point he blocked those attacks

It's not a headcanon. Like... Nobody coughed up blood. Who else? Diane had a slight head injury (just like Elizabeth) and that's it, nothing more than that.I'm not placing Diane above Elizabeth.

You can't call both has same injuries and next moment you point out Elizabeth was standing with less injury.
Diana was down for longer time and only Elizabeth was up.

Yes, we all know that they can, but they didn't. They all remain injured until the end of the fight, except for Mael and Elizabeth, who can heal passively.
So, what is in the manga has become headcanon? Diane clearly took very little damage, just a head injury and nothing more, and in 5 pages she was already getting up.

I agree with one thing—after checking the chapters again, I conclude that, sure, they didn’t heal. However, I disagree with your take on Diane taking less injury. Anyone can read and see the scans for themselves, so I’ll let the staff decide on that. She has no feats supporting that she scales to the Demon King anyway.

Even if you go with this, it would only be a durability rating at most—nothing more.

In terms of cruelty, she literally talks about her emotions in the same sentence.

It doesn't make sense looking at Escanor fight and Zeldris comments.

Don't worry, I'll let Meliodas know that he was wrong when he said he didn't feel anything for Elizabeth anymore.

I bet this was after Escanor fight so I disagree with your take.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Coughing and sweating are different things. Ludciel was scared while Diana was injured. You are arguments doesn't make sense on this topic anymore.

And in neither of the two cases does this have to do with the damage a person suffers. Everyone on the battlefield was sweating for the same reason: the Demon King was strong. It has no relation to damage. You're not the one who decides that, lol.

Meliodas uses weapons even before Escanor got stronger. Does less damage

Later uses normal punches does more damage

All the more reason to assume he was not going all out. Him using weapons doesn't mean he was always amping himself, as you are trying to make it sound. It's logical to assume he only used a certain amount of power at that point, underestimating The One.

Where did I say he was serious just because he used a weapon? The sword completely pierced Escanor's torso; it wasn’t weaker than the punch, it just could only affect a smaller area. Where did I say that him using weapons = a 10x amplifier? I literally sent the scan of the moment when he amplifies his power by 10x and doesn’t even scratch Escanor, and then he gets one-shot.

She is swinging her hammer, and it doesn’t matter if she was beside him at the beginning before she started attacking. Anyone can see that the impact from her attacks was drawn on the backside of Demon King Meliodas, where he didn’t care at all. You completely ignored the fact that I already pointed this out.

Actually, no, the impact does not happen on the back. Regardless, Mael said that the Demon King was BLOCKING ALL OF THEIR ATTACKS. I hope that, in caps lock, you can read and understand.

You can't call both has same injuries and next moment you point out Elizabeth was standing with less injury.
Diana was down for longer time and only Elizabeth was up.

Where did I say that Elizabeth had fewer injuries?

Even if you go with this, it would only be a durability rating at most—nothing more.

...

It doesn't make sense looking at Escanor fight and Zeldris comments.

The fight reinforces this idea.

I bet this was after Escanor fight so I disagree with your take.

I can disagree that 2+2 equals 4, but that won't change the result.

 

[Majinere566]

I bet you are talking about these?
Scan1
Scan2
I think it was talking him not being able to win though.

Yes scan 2. It most certainly does not talk about him “winning”. He quite literally says “When it comes to fighting”

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

And in neither of the two cases does this have to do with the damage a person suffers. Everyone on the battlefield was sweating for the same reason: the Demon King was strong. It has no relation to damage. You're not the one who decides that, lol.

At this point, I'll let the staff decide whether those injuries are serious or not. Not to mention, DK was casual with those attacks. You will just call it minor injuries nonetheless no matter how many times I point out the scans

Where did I say he was serious just because he used a weapon? The sword completely pierced Escanor's torso; it wasn’t weaker than the punch, it just could only affect a smaller area. Where did I say that him using weapons = a 10x amplifier? I literally sent the scan of the moment when he amplifies his power by 10x and doesn’t even scratch Escanor, and then he gets one-shot.

Still, he got cooked worse than Zeldris, which already shows that AM was not at full power or going at full power. Zeldris is inferior to AM Meliodas, even by his own words.

Actually, no, the impact does not happen on the back.

It did

Regardless, Mael said that the Demon King was BLOCKING ALL OF THEIR ATTACKS. I hope that, in caps lock, you can read and understand.

One of the FTL states this so I'd prefer if some TL members checked the raws.

Also scan shows —until King and Mael attacked, no attacks were blocked. We even see Diane’s attack impact his back. Again, I'll leave it to the staff because you're just nitpicking certain words without considering how it's drawn and displayed. Diane literally has zero feats except for lifting DK Zeldris from the ground, which is just a lifting strength feat. She was also emotionally amped and giving it her all.

Where did I say that Elizabeth had fewer injuries?

Elizabeth is already standing in this same panel, and we see on a later page that she has very few injuries.

The fight reinforces this idea.

It doesn't.

I can disagree that 2+2 equals 4, but that won't change the result.

Then you're just bad at math—nothing more. Also, that's a false equivalence.

Merlin states that he was reverting to the same Meliodas who led the Commandments, which means he was still in the process of completely letting go of his emotions. Your scans claiming he lacked emotions after the fight with The One don’t prove that he had already lost them completely at that point. You're contradicting your own scans and arguments.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yes scan 2. It most certainly does not talk about him “winning”. He quite literally says “When it comes to fighting”

You know Mael is a better user of Sunshine than Escanor, right? He also has better physical stats to amp himself with Sunshine ignoring Escanor limitations. I think he could put up the same level of fight as Escanor, but that’s still not enough to take down the Demon King. So I think that’s what he meant.

 

[Majinere566]

You know Mael is a better user of Sunshine than Escanor, right? He also has better physical stats to amp himself with Sunshine ignoring Escanor limitations. I think he could put up the same level of fight as Escanor, but that’s still not enough to take down the Demon King. So I think that’s what he meant.

His body is more suited for Sunshine and more proficient with the use of the grace. I have 0 recollections of actual statements saying Mael’s physical stats with Sunshine was higher than Escanor’s.

Your argument makes zero sense and steelmaning your argument why would he give Sunshine back to someone that has lesser physical stats than Escanor in a very crucial battle?

“You think he could” He himself said he stands no chance. Stop with these Mental Gymnastics.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

His body is more suited for Sunshine and more proficient with the use of the grace. I have 0 recollections of actual statements saying Mael’s physical stats with Sunshine was higher than Escanor’s.

We literally see his fight with OD. Also Escanor himself states this

Let's not forget Mael even without being in The one state cooked ON Zeldris. Where TO Escanor needed put some effort.

Your argument makes zero sense and steelmaning your argument why would he give Sunshine back to someone that has lesser physical stats than Escanor in a very crucial battle?

“You think he could” He himself said he stands no chance. Stop with these Mental Gymnastics.

He literally didn't want to give Escanor Sunshine because Escanor's body couldn't handle it. He also never stated that Escanor could beat the Demon King. You are the one doing mental gymnastics without understanding what others are saying. Also, Sunshine with Mael has feats comparable to King. Show me where he said that Escanor with Sunshine could beat the Demon King. Also can you stop getting angry and argue properly? Otherwise just drop your arguments and let staffs evaluate it. You don't need to agree with my interpretations.

 

[Majinere566]

We literally see his fight with OD. Also Escanor himself states this

All these panels really just proves my point further actually. All it does is acknowledge that Sunshine, the power is capable of aiding the protagonists defeat the villain. It however burdens Escanor because it was not built for a human body, rather a Goddess body. Escanor also quite literally said he “doesn’t have enough strength to handle the be burdens of sunshine” because as I have already mentioned before, it is not designed for a human.

Let's not forget Mael even without being in The one state cooked ON Zeldris. Where TO Escanor needed put some effort.

This point will eventually go back to my old point above but first of all. We quite literally are Mael get dragged in quite easily once he activates it, using the comparison you made with TO Escanor, he casually strolls in it.

Secondly, Mael Melts the sword rendering ON Nebula ineffective at the moment, this is due to the fact that, one it’s a grave originally meant for his body and two he’s a more efficient user of the grace

Once again nowhere stated that Mael’s physical stats mentioned being above Escanor’s while using the Grace. And to put the cherry on top this argument we see here Zeldris effectively winning the 1 on 1, Mael was out for the time being and Mael later on sneaking behind Zeldris(mind you who’s been fighting almost constantly before) to attack him

So no he did not “cook” ON Zeldris in the way you implied it.
it.

He literally didn't want to give Escanor Sunshine because Escanor's body couldn't handle it. He also never stated that Escanor could beat the Demon King.

I never asserted this.
But we do see Escanor end up being equal to the Likes of the Demon King.

You are the one doing mental gymnastics without understanding what others are saying.

So I see Mael admit inferiority to the Demon King, gives off his grace to Escanor, Escanor proceeds to but the beat down on The Demon King and I conclude that Escanor is stronger vs YOUR interpretation of Mael being stronger than Escanor even tho he admitted inferiority to the same character Escanor put the beats on? How am I doing mental gymnastics when there’s literal backflips in your arguments

Also have this panel basically confirming everything I asserted as Mael not being able to fight against the Demon King

Show me where he said that Escanor with Sunshine could beat the Demon King. Also can you stop getting angry and argue properly?

Never asserted this mind you don’t strawman

 

[Makai641001]

Sweating or coughing has no relation to the level of damage you suffered, lol. Diane wasn't gasping for air. The characters were already sweating even before suffering any attack. Lol, Ludociel, who didn't take any attacks, was sweating.

It was an image… not litteral they were knocked on the ground not able to get back up immediately they suffered damage from casual slap from Meliodas DK

Should this prove that Hellblaze is darkness?

It’s pretty much fire imbued with the darkness of the demon realm

Hendrickson, even before injecting demon blood into his body, could use Hellblaze, but couldn't use darkness.

Yeah just like he could use Purge without being a deity just like the whole Druid group that’s a magic spell that can be learned

No one ascended to that level;

Diane got cooked by Worrheldane

it's a hyperbolic statement from Arthur. They just become incredibly stronger.

Nah

Tristan scales to Meliodas 2DM, but Tristan with enchantments scales above him,

Makes sense

and AM scales above this Tristan.

So a higher rating for AM should be ok

However, since it is not known how much higher he scales, he is given at least the same level as Tristan with enchantments.

Ok

It doesn't make sense for Meliodas to imbue his weapon with magic (10x amplifier) in a fight where he wasn't serious.
The character's durability doesn't change just because he's casual. The same Zeldris says this here:

Zel litteraly says he wasn’t serious and wouldn’t have lost if he was

I’m not saying that Meliodas scales higher, he is relative

If he didn't care, he wouldn't defend himself against the attacks. Ash Hendrickson didn't waste time defending himself from the knights' attacks because he knew they wouldn't hurt him.

That’s two different people

If a slight bleeding is not considered minor damage, then I don't know what is.

That’s damage and it was not really a « slight bleeding »

What does that have to do with the damage she suffered?

He wasn’t damaged cause he Scale fully while Diane should down scale

Now this is a headcanon.

Base Post Revival Meliodas was PLAYING with 2 commandments… (that are among the strongest) while being horrendously weaker than EOS Meliodas Ban and King
In fact even Chandler and Cuzack made up for the 8 missing Commandments

No, actually, it was the opposite.

Both groups are equal so the war can’t finish

No, we don't know, and that statement comes from a reliable person, Merlin.

Same Merlin that didn’t know how strong OG Mel was.

You argued for Corand TO Escanor being > AM
But someone capable of repelling Mael alone is supposed to be weaker

Mael fled from Demon Mark Meliodas in a battle they had in the Celestial Realm; he is far from being comparable to Assault Mode Meliodas. Escanor used energy that he had stored in his attack.

OG Mel in DM2 would stomp AM Mel blud was OP

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Not to mention, DK was casual with those attacks.

It wasn't casual.

Still, he got cooked worse than Zeldris, which already shows that AM was not at full power or going at full power.

Zeldris used Ominous Nebula to avoid being hit by Escanor's attack. Escanor used more energy in his attack on Meliodas than in his attack on Zeldris.

Zeldris is inferior to AM Meliodas, even by his own words.

Yes, Zeldris is inferior to Meliodas.

One of the FTL states this so I'd prefer if some TL members checked the raws.

The guy is trying to oppose the official translation with one made by fans, lol.
edit: Here is the raw content in case anyone wants to check the translation.

Also scan shows —until King and Mael attacked, no attacks were blocked. We even see Diane’s attack impact his back. Again, I'll leave it to the staff because you're just nitpicking certain words without considering how it's drawn and displayed.

King, Mael, and Diane attacked the Demon King together, and it was only possible to see that he was blocking the attacks when we were viewing from Mael's perspective, following his logic. He also wasn't blocking King's attacks. Diane was next to the Demon King, and Mael says that he is blocking all the attacks, so he must also be blocking Diane's attacks. That is logical.

Lol, I didn't remember that.

It doesn't.

That is not an argument.

Merlin states that he was reverting to the same Meliodas who led the Commandments, which means he was still in the process of completely letting go of his emotions.

He wasn't abandoning his emotions. The Demon King literally stole them; he didn't do it gradually.

Your scans claiming he lacked emotions after the fight with The One don’t prove that he had already lost them completely at that point.

Dude... Even before the fight started, Merlin said that he had lost his emotions.

You're contradicting your own scans and arguments.

Elaborate.

Yeah just like he could use Purge without being a deity just like the whole Druid group that’s a magic spell that can be learned

Because it doesn’t depend on physiology. We never see a character who isn’t a goddess using Ark or any light magic. Only demons can use darkness.

Diane got cooked by Worrheldane

Worreldane would be killed by King even with his magic sealed.

Zel litteraly says he wasn’t serious and wouldn’t have lost if he was

I’m not saying that Meliodas scales higher, he is relative

The Escanor that Meliodas faced used energy that he had stored for a long time all at once, while the Escanor that Zeldris saw was weaker. So, I think he should really be compared to the Escanor that Zeldris saw.

That’s two different people

The Demon King is much prouder than Hendrickson; he would really let those attacks hit him just to show that he is far superior to them.

He wasn’t damaged cause he Scale fully while Diane should down scale

Diane scales below; I'm not trying to argue that she is equal to 50% Demon King.

Base Post Revival Meliodas was PLAYING with 2 commandments… (that are among the strongest) while being horrendously weaker than EOS Meliodas Ban and King
In fact even Chandler and Cuzack made up for the 8 missing Commandments

Fair.

Same Merlin that didn’t know how strong OG Mel was.

She met this Meliodas personally; she knows how strong he was.

You argued for Corand TO Escanor being > AM
But someone capable of repelling Mael alone is supposed to be weaker

Escanor The One in the Corand arc is his strongest version before the fight against the Demon King. He used energy accumulated over years, which is why.
Corand TO Escanor>AM=New Holy War TO Escanor.

Present the scale you believe is the best.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Diane literally has zero feats except for lifting DK Zeldris from the ground, which is just a lifting strength feat. She was also emotionally amped and giving it her all.

 

[Makai641001]

Because it doesn’t depend on physiology. We never see a character who isn’t a goddess using Ark or any light magic. Only demons can use darkness.

Purge is a deity technique:

Purge「浄化パージ, Pāji; lit. "Purify"」 is a secret technique known only to the Druids, taught to them by the Goddess Clan

Worreldane would be killed by King even with his magic sealed.

Yeah, she Still cooked Diane, a SIN LEVEL

The Escanor that Meliodas faced used energy that he had stored for a long time all at once, while the Escanor that Zeldris saw was weaker. So, I think he should really be compared to the Escanor that Zeldris saw.

Though is isn’t on the same lvl as EOS Escanor

The Demon King is much prouder than Hendrickson; he would really let those attacks hit him just to show that he is far superior to them.

That’s an assumption you persisted in saying that DK is always serious how can you say thé complete opposite ?

Diane scales below; I'm not trying to argue that she is equal to 50% Demon King.

Is There any feat showing that her AP should scale at least close to Dk ?

Fair.

She met this Meliodas personally; she knows how strong he was.

Meeting him against weaklings ≠ seeing how strong he was against strong people

Escanor The One in the Corand arc is his strongest version before the fight against the Demon King. He used energy accumulated over years, which is why.
Corand TO Escanor>AM=New Holy War TO Escanor.

Present the scale you believe is the best.

New Holy War TO Escanor can fight against 100% DK
Corand TO can be beaten by a serious AM Meliodas

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

It wasn't casual.

Anyone who read the scan can tell it was casual.

Zeldris used Ominous Nebula to avoid being hit by Escanor's attack. Escanor used more energy in his attack on Meliodas than in his attack on Zeldris.

It doesn't state that he used more energy. Highlight where it was stated that he used more energy than in the fight against Zeldris.

All your scans only mention him using stored energy suddenly and his body not being able to handle it. You also need to prove that Escanor didn’t do the same against Zeldris.

The guy is trying to oppose the official translation with one made by fans, lol.
edit: Here is the raw content in case anyone wants to check the translation.

You are acting like OTL never mistakes?
Are you for real?

King, Mael, and Diane attacked the Demon King together, and it was only possible to see that he was blocking the attacks when we were viewing from Mael's perspective, following his logic. He also wasn't blocking King's attacks. Diane was next to the Demon King, and Mael says that he is blocking all the attacks, so he must also be blocking Diane's attacks. That is logical.

Our can just mean 2 people also. Also already @Makai641001 pointed out Diana is far inferior to King and Elizabeth nothing puts her attacks on his level.
Mael can just mean our as in his and King attacks.

That is not an argument.

I should be saying that do you.

He wasn't abandoning his emotions. The Demon King literally stole them; he didn't do it gradually.

Okay, sure, but that doesn't mean he instantly regained his original powers.

Merlin clearly mentioned that he was reverting back. Even if you go with your interpretation, him getting cooked by Escanor kind of disproves the idea that he regained his power or was fighting seriously.

Dude... Even before the fight started, Merlin said that he had lost his emotions.

The same sentence states that as he was reverting back to his old self, he grew stronger than before.

Elaborate.

Merlin states he is reverting back meaning he hasn't reverted to his old self yet.

Elizabeth confirmed this by saying she can stop down the process.

So yes he hasn't gotten back to OG Meliodas level at.

Sure wherever that scales.

---

Anyway I'm not going to go back and forth. Let staff evaluate on this topic.
I disagree with Gowther and Diana scaling to DK
Other 5 Sins can scale to DK.

If anything we now I want to discuss Tristan and Zeldris scaling now.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

All these panels really just proves my point further actually. All it does is acknowledge that Sunshine, the power is capable of aiding the protagonists defeat the villain. It however burdens Escanor because it was not built for a human body, rather a Goddess body. Escanor also quite literally said he “doesn’t have enough strength to handle the be burdens of sunshine” because as I have already mentioned before, it is not designed for a human

Do you realize how weak Escanor’s body is without Sunshine?

Even without Sunshine, Mael should be stronger than most of the Commandments.

I’m not sure if you understood what I said above—Sunshine is an amp, so applying it to a stronger physical body should result in better amplification than applying it to a weaker one.

This point will eventually go back to my old point above but first of all. We quite literally are Mael get dragged in quite easily once he activates it, using the comparison you made with TO Escanor, he casually strolls in it.

That’s Escanor in The One state.

My original claim was that Mael should be stronger than King. Later, after seeing Makai’s comments, I asked him a few questions, but he didn’t reply.

But King and the others were also affected by ON. I don’t see how Escanor walking through it is any different when King also bypassed ON without even breaking Zeldris’ sword.

Secondly, Mael Melts the sword rendering ON Nebula ineffective at the moment, this is due to the fact that, one it’s a grave originally meant for his body and two he’s a more efficient user of the grace

So, are you telling me Escanor’s body doesn’t produce heat?

Even if that weren’t the case, why didn’t Escanor’s sword do any damage?

Once again nowhere stated that Mael’s physical stats mentioned being above Escanor’s while using the Grace. And to put the cherry on top this argument we see here Zeldris effectively winning the 1 on 1, Mael was out for the time being and Mael later on sneaking behind Zeldris(mind you who’s been fighting almost constantly before) to attack him

Ignoring the whole point where Mael was talking let his guard down in previous page and Zeldris emotional amp. Even your scans states desperate drive.

Before that he was beating up Zeldris lol

So no he did not “cook” ON Zeldris in the way you implied it.
it.

It also states Demon Lord and ON can't block his attacks

I never asserted this.
But we do see Escanor end up being equal to the Likes of the Demon King.

That's because The one not normal Escanor fully scaling to DK.

So I see Mael admit inferiority to the Demon King, gives off his grace to Escanor, Escanor proceeds to but the beat down on The Demon King and I conclude that Escanor is stronger vs YOUR interpretation of Mael being stronger than Escanor even tho he admitted inferiority to the same character Escanor put the beats on? How am I doing mental gymnastics when there’s literal backflips in your arguments

Also have this panel basically confirming everything I asserted as Mael not being able to fight against the Demon King

Even Escanor had only chance when he entered The one.Never asserted this mind you don’t strawman

You are literally asserting that Mael gave Escanor the Grace so he could beat down the Demon King.

So, you’re claiming that Mael gave it to him because Escanor had a chance, which was never stated in the series so far.

Also one who is really strawman arguments are with you.
I said both should be in same level not that one is superior to others.

I think he could put up the same level of fight as Escanor, but that’s still not enough to take down the Demon King. So I think that’s what he meant.

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Anyway, it seems like you're just nitpicking certain points without even understanding my claims.

I never said Mael is stronger than Escanor—I said Mael should have better physicals to handle Sunshine. Hence, he should be able to put up a similar level of fight against the Demon King if he wanted. But he never had a real chance of winning since The One state doesn’t last long. So, even if he tried, he still couldn’t win.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Cusack dominated Ludociel in Margaret's body with Flash. He and Chandler are said to be very fast and strong. Cusack and Chandler fuse and return to their original form, and Ludociel, in his true body, can keep up with them before the crisis. The fusion is Chandler + Cusack, and as shown before, it significantly increases speed and strength, so it would be fair for Ludociel to be 2x fast in his true body.

What is your opinion on CRT?

I agree with most of the speed scaling but this one particularly is a no. Fusions doesn't automatically apply to speed.