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Ruphas and Alovenus Layering Settings
Alovenus and Ruphas abilities work via layering settings upon settings, this is described in detail, and is as it sounds, this is basically akin to an author making up rules as they go
“There is no limit to the strength that people can imagine,” said Alovenus. “For example, take two different stories, and compare the strength of their two main characters. The character from the first story is strong enough to destroy the universe, but the character from the second story says that a universe is just a small cell in a part of an even larger megaverse.”
As Alovenus spoke, the universe started to shrink. It got smaller and smaller, and eventually, it was as small as it could get, small enough for Lufas and the other two to see the entirety of the universe at once. They were being shown that the universe was but a microcosm of something larger. Beyond that, there was an even larger space.
Unwilling to listen to the Goddess’s leisurely lecture, Lufas threw out an attack overlaid with Scorpius’s skill, a poison that would never disappear, while Orm used his breath attack. However, the Goddess didn’t stop.
“But this is where a third story comes in, and they claim that even the second story’s universe is but a small cell of an even bigger one.”
Once again, the universe shrunk. Thus, she once again showed them the sheer scale of things, where two nested universes were once again nested in a larger one.
“Even if there was someone labeled as the strongest among these characters in a setting this overwhelming, things would be flipped upside down by nothing but one word from the author, or in other words, God. That being that there was an even stronger character able to defeat the first character with but one punch. Just like that, another powerhouse would appear. Then that fourth powerhouse gets treated like a child by a fifth, who is then unable to react to the speed at which a sixth fights. Then the sixth character gets killed a hundred times over by a single forehead flick from a seventh, who can’t even lift a finger against an eighth, who equals a ninth in strength. Then, even if there were a hundred of the ninth character they would get trampled over by a tenth, who can be erased in a single breath by an eleventh... Hee hee hee. Doesn’t that sound rather common in fiction?”
Light gathered in Alovenus’s hand. It was no normal light; it contained countless universes and held the power to destroy hundreds, thousands, or even billions of worlds. This was the dimension of gods; the scale of it all was just different.
“This is all just the product of childish arguments,” Alovenus continued. “I’m sure your avatar did it as well when he was young, Lufas. Imagine two young children. One pretends to attack with some sort of awesome beam, but the other defends against it with an equally awesome barrier. Then the first child claims that their beam can easily break through any barrier, causing the second child to insist that their barrier is an invincible one still capable of blocking it. That just causes the child on the offensive to get angry and stubborn, and they continue to selfishly insist that their beam can break the barrier, no matter how invincible it is. Then, the second child tries to insist that their barrier will never break, no matter what... There is no end to this.”
Alovenus giggled again, showing her absolute confidence in her victory, her power. I cannot lose. There’s no reason I would. Even if there were, I could just go above it. I can make as many settings where I am the strongest as I please. Reason is nothing. Providence is nothing.
“I’ll start by telling you this: my power is endless. I can layer setting upon setting. For example, even if you all managed to obtain some sort of ability or power to defeat me, I would be able to answer it by saying, ‘Those abilities and powers will not work on me. I am strong enough to defeat you all with a single one of my fingers.’ Do you think it childish? Well, that’s because it is. I won’t deny it. But things like this are far more powerful than pretentious, unmoving settings that go on forever.”-Volume 9, Part 6
As Alovenus spoke, the universe started to shrink. It got smaller and smaller, and eventually, it was as small as it could get, small enough for Lufas and the other two to see the entirety of the universe at once. They were being shown that the universe was but a microcosm of something larger. Beyond that, there was an even larger space.
Unwilling to listen to the Goddess’s leisurely lecture, Lufas threw out an attack overlaid with Scorpius’s skill, a poison that would never disappear, while Orm used his breath attack. However, the Goddess didn’t stop.
“But this is where a third story comes in, and they claim that even the second story’s universe is but a small cell of an even bigger one.”
Once again, the universe shrunk. Thus, she once again showed them the sheer scale of things, where two nested universes were once again nested in a larger one.
“Even if there was someone labeled as the strongest among these characters in a setting this overwhelming, things would be flipped upside down by nothing but one word from the author, or in other words, God. That being that there was an even stronger character able to defeat the first character with but one punch. Just like that, another powerhouse would appear. Then that fourth powerhouse gets treated like a child by a fifth, who is then unable to react to the speed at which a sixth fights. Then the sixth character gets killed a hundred times over by a single forehead flick from a seventh, who can’t even lift a finger against an eighth, who equals a ninth in strength. Then, even if there were a hundred of the ninth character they would get trampled over by a tenth, who can be erased in a single breath by an eleventh... Hee hee hee. Doesn’t that sound rather common in fiction?”
Light gathered in Alovenus’s hand. It was no normal light; it contained countless universes and held the power to destroy hundreds, thousands, or even billions of worlds. This was the dimension of gods; the scale of it all was just different.
“This is all just the product of childish arguments,” Alovenus continued. “I’m sure your avatar did it as well when he was young, Lufas. Imagine two young children. One pretends to attack with some sort of awesome beam, but the other defends against it with an equally awesome barrier. Then the first child claims that their beam can easily break through any barrier, causing the second child to insist that their barrier is an invincible one still capable of blocking it. That just causes the child on the offensive to get angry and stubborn, and they continue to selfishly insist that their beam can break the barrier, no matter how invincible it is. Then, the second child tries to insist that their barrier will never break, no matter what... There is no end to this.”
Alovenus giggled again, showing her absolute confidence in her victory, her power. I cannot lose. There’s no reason I would. Even if there were, I could just go above it. I can make as many settings where I am the strongest as I please. Reason is nothing. Providence is nothing.
“I’ll start by telling you this: my power is endless. I can layer setting upon setting. For example, even if you all managed to obtain some sort of ability or power to defeat me, I would be able to answer it by saying, ‘Those abilities and powers will not work on me. I am strong enough to defeat you all with a single one of my fingers.’ Do you think it childish? Well, that’s because it is. I won’t deny it. But things like this are far more powerful than pretentious, unmoving settings that go on forever.”-Volume 9, Part 6
Alovenus by layering settings can simple state that she can defeat her opponent with 1 finger, and this beyond unmoving settings such as the example of 2 kids who keep 1 upping each other in game of who is more powerful.
It's stated that no matter what their opponent's do they will always be superior
Alovenus’s power spiked, causing a universe-sized explosion. Lufas and the other two defended against it with all their might, either erasing the explosion or absorbing it as their own power.
However, that was when Alovenus flew at them, flinging the three of them away at the same time. They all quickly regained their footing and went on the offensive, but their attacks were easily evaded. These were attacks that should have left behind the process of having to hit, because they came with infinite speed.
“Infinite speed? Yes, that’s amazing. So I’ll respond with, ‘To me, infinite speed is the same as one speed. I am still a hundred times faster,’” said the Goddess. “If you boast infinite attack strength, then I’ll respond, ‘There is another infinity behind that, which makes your infinity look like a one.’ If you manage to surpass that, then I will just add another layer on top. If you continue to get stronger infinitely, then I will just get stronger at a thousand times that speed.”
“Now, what will you do next?” she continued. “Use some sort of instant death power where you just have to look at the target? Use an ability to steal your opponent’s powers? Make use of some sort of special attribute that always makes you stronger than your opponent? Turn back time altogether and make it so this never happened? Use some amazing power to go to a higher world in order to rip up your opponent’s settings? Activate something that will nullify all abilities? Erect an invincible barrier that will reflect any and every attack at twice the strength? Manipulate the very concept of victory in order to make yourself always win, ignoring everything else? Cheat and implant the concept of defeat onto your opponent so that they will always lose? Make use of a pure and simple power that will pierce through everything to always kill the target? I don’t care what you do. Please, come at me until you’re satisfied. None of it will do anything, anyway.”-Volume 9, Part 7
However, that was when Alovenus flew at them, flinging the three of them away at the same time. They all quickly regained their footing and went on the offensive, but their attacks were easily evaded. These were attacks that should have left behind the process of having to hit, because they came with infinite speed.
“Infinite speed? Yes, that’s amazing. So I’ll respond with, ‘To me, infinite speed is the same as one speed. I am still a hundred times faster,’” said the Goddess. “If you boast infinite attack strength, then I’ll respond, ‘There is another infinity behind that, which makes your infinity look like a one.’ If you manage to surpass that, then I will just add another layer on top. If you continue to get stronger infinitely, then I will just get stronger at a thousand times that speed.”
“Now, what will you do next?” she continued. “Use some sort of instant death power where you just have to look at the target? Use an ability to steal your opponent’s powers? Make use of some sort of special attribute that always makes you stronger than your opponent? Turn back time altogether and make it so this never happened? Use some amazing power to go to a higher world in order to rip up your opponent’s settings? Activate something that will nullify all abilities? Erect an invincible barrier that will reflect any and every attack at twice the strength? Manipulate the very concept of victory in order to make yourself always win, ignoring everything else? Cheat and implant the concept of defeat onto your opponent so that they will always lose? Make use of a pure and simple power that will pierce through everything to always kill the target? I don’t care what you do. Please, come at me until you’re satisfied. None of it will do anything, anyway.”-Volume 9, Part 7
Their childish non-logic makes all strength, speed, abilities useless
After Alovenus went on the attack, Lufas and her group were forced into a purely defensive battle. However, no defenses worked, and their healing couldn’t keep up. Any attack they launched was meaningless, and as hard as they might try to use their skills, they were all nullified. Lufas’s group had powered up a phenomenal amount since the start of the battle, but even then, they couldn’t manage. Alovenus was just too ridiculous.
Alovenus spawned a universe outside the universe and another universe beyond that. Each universe was but a single cell of another one, which was in turn just another cell. After a dizzying hundred repetitions of this, a supergiant universe was born.
All of this was used by Alovenus as a consumable bomb. After starting a hundred big bangs, she destroyed it all with a big crunch. It was just way too much—way, way too much.
The scale of the fight was now so inflated it was becoming stale. What she was doing was just like selfish children arguing, saying, “Mine is way better than yours!” She was just making things bigger for the sake of it. She was using this childish non-logic as a brute-force response to everything, blowing all her problems away. All powers, speed, skills, everything was meaningless in front of what she was doing.-Volume 9, Part 7
Alovenus spawned a universe outside the universe and another universe beyond that. Each universe was but a single cell of another one, which was in turn just another cell. After a dizzying hundred repetitions of this, a supergiant universe was born.
All of this was used by Alovenus as a consumable bomb. After starting a hundred big bangs, she destroyed it all with a big crunch. It was just way too much—way, way too much.
The scale of the fight was now so inflated it was becoming stale. What she was doing was just like selfish children arguing, saying, “Mine is way better than yours!” She was just making things bigger for the sake of it. She was using this childish non-logic as a brute-force response to everything, blowing all her problems away. All powers, speed, skills, everything was meaningless in front of what she was doing.-Volume 9, Part 7
The most important statement from all this imo is "Use some amazing power to go to a higher world in order to rip up your opponent’s settings". Alovenus and Ruphas already have numerous statements about perceiving the world as a game, being the author of the world etc, thus essentially are already 1-A, however it explicitly says that even if you could ascend to an even higher world where you can rip up your opponents settings, it still wouldn't work on Alovenus, she would just get stronger than that.
Thus we could argue their ability to transcend is not just in terms of quantitative values, but qualitative.
Alovenus and Ruphas Reach Infinity
The fight between Ruphas and Alovenus is a fight where they climb to the summit of infinity
Eventually, the Goddess removed her hands from her face and spoke, seeming to have calmed down. “Hee hee hee... That’s some talk. Are you sure you can do it? It may sound like boasting, but my temper is a bit...extradimensional.”
“I don’t mind.”
Lufas beckoned Alovenus, prompting Benetnasch, who had been waiting for the conversation to end, to heave an exasperated sigh. Orm let out some strained laughter himself, and the two of them looked at each other and nodded.
“This is it for us then. You can take care of this spoiled child by yourself,” said Benet.
“I’d like to say that I feel I could handle the Goddess too...” Orm said, pausing. “But it seems to me that things are reaching a point where we cannot keep up. I’ll leave the rest to you.”
From here on out, the fight would take place in a realm for gods who could make everything go exactly how they pleased.
Benetnasch and Orm had already been fighting in this Endpoint at a level normal people would consider godlike, and they were holding their own. However, they had realized something after that laugh. The fight up until now—with those big bangs and big crunches and whatnot—had been fought with the Goddess still holding back greatly. She might not have even considered it fighting. From here on out, things would be even harder. The combatants would climb to the summit of infinity, piling infinity after infinity upon each other. It would be a fight without any upper limits.
However, while Benetnasch might attempt to keep up for Lufas, she couldn’t work up that much fighting spirit against the Goddess. She knew she would always end up slowing down. In a similar fashion, Orm was unable to believe that he was the absolute strongest, well, strongly enough. He knew he would always end up paying attention to any inconsistencies and contradictions, causing shadows of doubt to sprout. He would unmistakably end up dropping out in the middle, and that could not be allowed.-Volume 9, Part 7
“I don’t mind.”
Lufas beckoned Alovenus, prompting Benetnasch, who had been waiting for the conversation to end, to heave an exasperated sigh. Orm let out some strained laughter himself, and the two of them looked at each other and nodded.
“This is it for us then. You can take care of this spoiled child by yourself,” said Benet.
“I’d like to say that I feel I could handle the Goddess too...” Orm said, pausing. “But it seems to me that things are reaching a point where we cannot keep up. I’ll leave the rest to you.”
From here on out, the fight would take place in a realm for gods who could make everything go exactly how they pleased.
Benetnasch and Orm had already been fighting in this Endpoint at a level normal people would consider godlike, and they were holding their own. However, they had realized something after that laugh. The fight up until now—with those big bangs and big crunches and whatnot—had been fought with the Goddess still holding back greatly. She might not have even considered it fighting. From here on out, things would be even harder. The combatants would climb to the summit of infinity, piling infinity after infinity upon each other. It would be a fight without any upper limits.
However, while Benetnasch might attempt to keep up for Lufas, she couldn’t work up that much fighting spirit against the Goddess. She knew she would always end up slowing down. In a similar fashion, Orm was unable to believe that he was the absolute strongest, well, strongly enough. He knew he would always end up paying attention to any inconsistencies and contradictions, causing shadows of doubt to sprout. He would unmistakably end up dropping out in the middle, and that could not be allowed.-Volume 9, Part 7
Ruphas and Alovenus after fighting for a while, reached the heights of power, both infinite, neither should be superior to the other
“Hah!”
Lufas swung down her sword, and Alovenus evaded by leaping away.
Alovenus flipped her dress around, swinging her sword and sending a flurry of slashes at Lufas. The flying blades of energy would never miss, and they would destroy anything and everything. They slashed through everything, closing the distance until blades once again clashed, creating more shock waves.
At first glance, everything seemed even. In fact, it was even. Both sides repeatedly insisted that they were stronger, so no difference could be formed between them. Now that the two of them had reached the heights of power, this fight could not be anything but even. It was an equation so simple even small children could understand it. Infinity was always equal to infinity; there was no other answer. At least, that was how it should have been.
However, Lufas slowly started gaining the advantage in this sword-locked duel, and for the first time, Alovenus seemed somewhat anxious.
This is weird. I shouldn’t lose. I shouldn’t be being pushed back. I should have been raising my own power in concert with hers!
Of course, Lufas also knew that, so she took that into account and raised her own power to respond to Alovenus’s increases as well. That was why they should have been even. So why am I being pushed back? Why am I losing?
“Play-fighting between children... That was what you described it as, didn’t you, Alovenus?”
Lufas applied even more power, further pushing Alovenus back. She was doing the same thing as Alovenus, simply layering her own settings and character building over her opponent’s in order to make herself superior. However, Lufas was doing so just slightly faster than her opponent.-Volume 9, Part 8
Lufas swung down her sword, and Alovenus evaded by leaping away.
Alovenus flipped her dress around, swinging her sword and sending a flurry of slashes at Lufas. The flying blades of energy would never miss, and they would destroy anything and everything. They slashed through everything, closing the distance until blades once again clashed, creating more shock waves.
At first glance, everything seemed even. In fact, it was even. Both sides repeatedly insisted that they were stronger, so no difference could be formed between them. Now that the two of them had reached the heights of power, this fight could not be anything but even. It was an equation so simple even small children could understand it. Infinity was always equal to infinity; there was no other answer. At least, that was how it should have been.
However, Lufas slowly started gaining the advantage in this sword-locked duel, and for the first time, Alovenus seemed somewhat anxious.
This is weird. I shouldn’t lose. I shouldn’t be being pushed back. I should have been raising my own power in concert with hers!
Of course, Lufas also knew that, so she took that into account and raised her own power to respond to Alovenus’s increases as well. That was why they should have been even. So why am I being pushed back? Why am I losing?
“Play-fighting between children... That was what you described it as, didn’t you, Alovenus?”
Lufas applied even more power, further pushing Alovenus back. She was doing the same thing as Alovenus, simply layering her own settings and character building over her opponent’s in order to make herself superior. However, Lufas was doing so just slightly faster than her opponent.-Volume 9, Part 8
Argument here is if their transcendence is in terms on qualitative values, and they did this infinitely, this would make them 1-A+.
Addressing Rebuttals
Alovenus Ascending Above 1-A
The obvious rebuttal to this proposed change, would be that Alovenus and Ruphas were able to ascend to 1-A+, this was done via their own power, and not help from a higher being. This is a point against them being 1-A+.
However I will explain why that isn't necessarily the case. Alovenus wasn't always a God, she started off as mortal
“That seems to be the limit of just aping powers. You’ve stood out enough that it’s far too easy to understand what you can’t do. This world itself is already something made from a warped, patched-together version of myths from the other side, but the living things are especially bad. There’s nothing here that is totally original. Though there are some species that have evolved along their own lines, their roots are still traceable back to Earth.”
For example, there were monsters that resembled dogs and ones that resembled cats as well. There were reptilian demihumans and bug monsters too. Not to mention fishlike peoples in the ocean, and the heaven-winged, who resembled birds.
“Like.” “Resembled.” “Basically the same.” Those words could be applied to all the living things in this world. You didn’t say that dogs “resembled dogs,” nor did you do the same for cats. After all, they were all the originals of their kind. If I were to bring over a biologist from Earth who knew every single species on the planet, he would surely at least recognize everything in this world. Why? Because they’d been stolen.
“Pretty much anything a person could imagine? That’s not true. It’s more like you can only do what people can imagine, right? You do not have the power to truly bring about the unknown, the unprecedented.”
Mizgarz’s roots were firmly planted in Earth. It could be that she did actually have the power to create the unknown; she just had no imagination. Because the source of all her ideas and imagination was Earth, everything she put forth would resemble something from Earth in some way. All of that led me to one conclusion. Though I wasn’t absolutely sure, and this was just a theory, my heart was screaming that this was the truth. The fact that she had titled herself the creator but could not create life was strange.
“Alovenus, you are not the creator. You existed as something else before you became a god... Am I wrong?”
The Goddess/Dina was silent for a moment. “That’s an interesting idea. I see, I see... That’s not a bad development. So behind me, there would be a true god of creation who was the real puppet master... Hee hee... Is that what you
wanted to say?”
The Goddess/Dina tried to confuse me with an incredible statement, but that wouldn’t work. There was no doubt that she was the mastermind of all this, as well as the one at the pinnacle of this universe. There was no one behind her and no existence higher than hers.
“Of course not. Are you stupid?”
“Wha—?!”
“Alovenus, I believe that you were not originally a god. You are simply someone who left their original world for some purpose and became a god.”
Yes, now that we’d come this far, there was only one answer. There was the twisted form that Mizgarz took, the living beings that made it up, the patchwork nature of its mythology, the copying of not just the other side’s food culture, but culture in general, and most importantly, the fact that Alovenus hadn’t laid a finger on Earth even though she was going so wild over here. It was as if there was something inviolably sacred about Earth. She hadn’t even been able to realize that Dina had hidden herself on Earth. Alovenus viewed Earth as special. That was also why she always chose the main characters for her stories from Earth. She would pull in young men who were in no way suited for fighting and give them favorable treatment. Why was that? It was obvious.-Volume 9, Part 2
For example, there were monsters that resembled dogs and ones that resembled cats as well. There were reptilian demihumans and bug monsters too. Not to mention fishlike peoples in the ocean, and the heaven-winged, who resembled birds.
“Like.” “Resembled.” “Basically the same.” Those words could be applied to all the living things in this world. You didn’t say that dogs “resembled dogs,” nor did you do the same for cats. After all, they were all the originals of their kind. If I were to bring over a biologist from Earth who knew every single species on the planet, he would surely at least recognize everything in this world. Why? Because they’d been stolen.
“Pretty much anything a person could imagine? That’s not true. It’s more like you can only do what people can imagine, right? You do not have the power to truly bring about the unknown, the unprecedented.”
Mizgarz’s roots were firmly planted in Earth. It could be that she did actually have the power to create the unknown; she just had no imagination. Because the source of all her ideas and imagination was Earth, everything she put forth would resemble something from Earth in some way. All of that led me to one conclusion. Though I wasn’t absolutely sure, and this was just a theory, my heart was screaming that this was the truth. The fact that she had titled herself the creator but could not create life was strange.
“Alovenus, you are not the creator. You existed as something else before you became a god... Am I wrong?”
The Goddess/Dina was silent for a moment. “That’s an interesting idea. I see, I see... That’s not a bad development. So behind me, there would be a true god of creation who was the real puppet master... Hee hee... Is that what you
wanted to say?”
The Goddess/Dina tried to confuse me with an incredible statement, but that wouldn’t work. There was no doubt that she was the mastermind of all this, as well as the one at the pinnacle of this universe. There was no one behind her and no existence higher than hers.
“Of course not. Are you stupid?”
“Wha—?!”
“Alovenus, I believe that you were not originally a god. You are simply someone who left their original world for some purpose and became a god.”
Yes, now that we’d come this far, there was only one answer. There was the twisted form that Mizgarz took, the living beings that made it up, the patchwork nature of its mythology, the copying of not just the other side’s food culture, but culture in general, and most importantly, the fact that Alovenus hadn’t laid a finger on Earth even though she was going so wild over here. It was as if there was something inviolably sacred about Earth. She hadn’t even been able to realize that Dina had hidden herself on Earth. Alovenus viewed Earth as special. That was also why she always chose the main characters for her stories from Earth. She would pull in young men who were in no way suited for fighting and give them favorable treatment. Why was that? It was obvious.-Volume 9, Part 2
Even as a mortal, however Alovenus was special she was the only with superpowers in a world where it didn't exist
This is a story from long, long ago, so long that the person it is about doesn’t even remember. In this story, no one was at fault, but no one was in the right either. She was just too powerful, unfortunately. That was really it.
Ever since she was born, or possibly even before that, she was too powerful. She herself knew that something was gravely off with herself. There was no fantasy in the world, just days of never-ending, unmerciful reality. People had no superpowers, and they could not use magic. Those who claimed they could on television were just those good at faking it. Fortune-tellers and prophets were all simply people extrapolating from the past to guess at the future, and none of them could actually do what they claimed. That was why they would strut around like a peacock reminding everyone of their achievement whenever they managed to be right, but when they were wrong, they would craftily pretend that they didn’t remember ever making any such prediction.
People could not fly through the air, nor could they live without air. People could not produce fire from their hands either, nor could they combat aging. That was why all of that was confined to the realms of fantasy and fiction, only to be told of in fairy tales. All of this was simply a fleeting dream that could only exist in fiction, or it should have been.
She alone was different. In this world with no dreams and no fantasy, she alone had dreams; she alone was fantastic. She could use magic, and she had superpowers. She could fly through the air, survive being in space, produce fire from her hands, and if she wanted, she could stop growing at any time. She could even become younger at will. She had once tried burning herself to ash as an experiment, but even then, she’d never lost consciousness. All that had happened was that she’d lost her body. With her consciousness still remaining, she could get her body back in an instant if she wanted. Even life and death bent to her will.-Volume 9, Part 4
Ever since she was born, or possibly even before that, she was too powerful. She herself knew that something was gravely off with herself. There was no fantasy in the world, just days of never-ending, unmerciful reality. People had no superpowers, and they could not use magic. Those who claimed they could on television were just those good at faking it. Fortune-tellers and prophets were all simply people extrapolating from the past to guess at the future, and none of them could actually do what they claimed. That was why they would strut around like a peacock reminding everyone of their achievement whenever they managed to be right, but when they were wrong, they would craftily pretend that they didn’t remember ever making any such prediction.
People could not fly through the air, nor could they live without air. People could not produce fire from their hands either, nor could they combat aging. That was why all of that was confined to the realms of fantasy and fiction, only to be told of in fairy tales. All of this was simply a fleeting dream that could only exist in fiction, or it should have been.
She alone was different. In this world with no dreams and no fantasy, she alone had dreams; she alone was fantastic. She could use magic, and she had superpowers. She could fly through the air, survive being in space, produce fire from her hands, and if she wanted, she could stop growing at any time. She could even become younger at will. She had once tried burning herself to ash as an experiment, but even then, she’d never lost consciousness. All that had happened was that she’d lost her body. With her consciousness still remaining, she could get her body back in an instant if she wanted. Even life and death bent to her will.-Volume 9, Part 4
It is revealed that her existence is just a coincidence, something that had even less of a chance of happening than the universe, a singularity
However, that would then invite another question. Where did such a thing come from?
By repeating this cycle, the conclusion that the beginning was nothing would eventually be reached. However, reaching that conclusion would erase all meaning. If there was nothing, then there would be no coincidence or component, and there would be no universe. Wouldn’t the nothingness simply continue for eternity? After going that far, most likely no one would have a rebuttal, since this would be reaching into the area of philosophy.
Ultimately, there would always be unexplainable things if one inquired far enough, and she was probably one of them. She was something that could not be explained by reason. In fact, there might have been no specific reason behind her at all. She was born from a completely failed place where human intellect could not reach and illogicality and inconsistency ruled. She may have been born because humans imagined God, or maybe humans were born because she had imagined them. She may have come from the universe itself, or it was possible that the universe came from her. Not even she herself knew which had come first. After all, she currently stood in a place where a sense of time could not take hold. She both felt that she could have been alive before the universe had existed and that she could have come after the universe had ended.
What kind of thing am I? Why was I born? Why do I exist? Not even she could answer those questions.
In the end, it was probably all a coincidence, just like the universe that had sprung from nothing. Just like how a green planet called Earth happened to have been formed, and how life happened to have been born on it. Just like how fire and water existed and how time had begun as well. Just as how all things were born or formed, she was surely born as the concept of herself.
In other words, she herself was some sort of phenomenon, something that had even less of a chance of happening than the universe, a singularity that was able to be born and walk around on Earth. The biggest glitch ever to spring from the world.
She might have been the manifestation of all the unrealistic things that had been unnecessary when reality itself had been created. Maybe all the concepts and notions that had not been created in the world had taken human form and been born as her. This coincidence was basically impossible. It was as if someone had scattered computer parts all throughout the ocean, and they somehow came together and were assembled into a complete PC. There was an almost zero percent chance of it happening. However, she was born from such a happenstance. The impossible became possible.-Volume 9, Part 4
By repeating this cycle, the conclusion that the beginning was nothing would eventually be reached. However, reaching that conclusion would erase all meaning. If there was nothing, then there would be no coincidence or component, and there would be no universe. Wouldn’t the nothingness simply continue for eternity? After going that far, most likely no one would have a rebuttal, since this would be reaching into the area of philosophy.
Ultimately, there would always be unexplainable things if one inquired far enough, and she was probably one of them. She was something that could not be explained by reason. In fact, there might have been no specific reason behind her at all. She was born from a completely failed place where human intellect could not reach and illogicality and inconsistency ruled. She may have been born because humans imagined God, or maybe humans were born because she had imagined them. She may have come from the universe itself, or it was possible that the universe came from her. Not even she herself knew which had come first. After all, she currently stood in a place where a sense of time could not take hold. She both felt that she could have been alive before the universe had existed and that she could have come after the universe had ended.
What kind of thing am I? Why was I born? Why do I exist? Not even she could answer those questions.
In the end, it was probably all a coincidence, just like the universe that had sprung from nothing. Just like how a green planet called Earth happened to have been formed, and how life happened to have been born on it. Just like how fire and water existed and how time had begun as well. Just as how all things were born or formed, she was surely born as the concept of herself.
In other words, she herself was some sort of phenomenon, something that had even less of a chance of happening than the universe, a singularity that was able to be born and walk around on Earth. The biggest glitch ever to spring from the world.
She might have been the manifestation of all the unrealistic things that had been unnecessary when reality itself had been created. Maybe all the concepts and notions that had not been created in the world had taken human form and been born as her. This coincidence was basically impossible. It was as if someone had scattered computer parts all throughout the ocean, and they somehow came together and were assembled into a complete PC. There was an almost zero percent chance of it happening. However, she was born from such a happenstance. The impossible became possible.-Volume 9, Part 4
Here it's also stated that Alovenus might have been the manifestation of all the unrealistic things, all concepts and notions that had been unnecessary when reality itself had been created.
This computer parts analogy is interesting as this is how the cosmology is described as well, with universes being software contained in a folder etc. Alovenus is essentially a function of creation.
While she started off with a certain level of power, simply by asserting that she can do it, she was able to leave the universe and enter the transcendent, 1-A plane of The Endpoint
At some point, she started to think like that. After years, decades, centuries of living amongst people, the dissatisfaction she had towards whoever had made this world grew ever stronger each time she came to know of the suffering that she was divorced from.
Living things die. They leave behind children as proof they were alive, and they continue to pass the baton to the next generation. The reason living things exist is in order to leave behind children. They lived in order to leave behind proof of their life. That was probably a necessary evolution in order to survive. It had to be done in order to allow creatures to adapt to their surroundings and maintain diversity. By having generations quickly change out, resources were not wasted.
There were many other reasons why this was done, and she understood that. However, she still felt it cruel. Because they were gifted with knowledge, humans all died while crying about not wanting to die. The will of this world was for everything that lived to die. There was no salvation; from birth, the world itself told them to die, to not survive. Why was the world made this beautiful but also this cruel?
At some point, she went out on a journey to save people. From the sick to the wounded to the suffering, she reached out the hand of salvation to all those she laid eyes on, continuing to pick them up. She was called a savior, a saint, and a goddess. She saved, and she saved, and she saved, but it was hopeless. There was no end. After all, people were made to die. In the end, it was as if she’d never saved them at all.
Because the world had been made this way, she was not solving the underlying problem. In order to save this world—in order to free everybody from their suffering—she had to flip the world over completely. That was why she decided to change the foundations.
Reaching the place was easy; she simply flew through the sky and space so fast that light was not even close to catching up, until she reached the end of the universe. It was impossible for a human-sized lump of matter to surpass the
speed of light. Even if it did happen, it would be disastrous. However, none of that mattered to her. After all, she was a singularity. She was unbound by the laws of this universe, and she contained multitudes of different laws and providences within her. She simply rewrote the common sense of the universe, applied what laws were convenient to her, and forced them into place.
Normally, cooling water would turn it into ice. However, if she said that the water would become fire instead, cooling water would then produce fire. Why? Who knows? She was able to do it, and that was that. The question of why never entered her mind at all.
“I can do it.”
That was the truth, and that was all that mattered.-Volume 9, Part 4
Living things die. They leave behind children as proof they were alive, and they continue to pass the baton to the next generation. The reason living things exist is in order to leave behind children. They lived in order to leave behind proof of their life. That was probably a necessary evolution in order to survive. It had to be done in order to allow creatures to adapt to their surroundings and maintain diversity. By having generations quickly change out, resources were not wasted.
There were many other reasons why this was done, and she understood that. However, she still felt it cruel. Because they were gifted with knowledge, humans all died while crying about not wanting to die. The will of this world was for everything that lived to die. There was no salvation; from birth, the world itself told them to die, to not survive. Why was the world made this beautiful but also this cruel?
At some point, she went out on a journey to save people. From the sick to the wounded to the suffering, she reached out the hand of salvation to all those she laid eyes on, continuing to pick them up. She was called a savior, a saint, and a goddess. She saved, and she saved, and she saved, but it was hopeless. There was no end. After all, people were made to die. In the end, it was as if she’d never saved them at all.
Because the world had been made this way, she was not solving the underlying problem. In order to save this world—in order to free everybody from their suffering—she had to flip the world over completely. That was why she decided to change the foundations.
Reaching the place was easy; she simply flew through the sky and space so fast that light was not even close to catching up, until she reached the end of the universe. It was impossible for a human-sized lump of matter to surpass the
speed of light. Even if it did happen, it would be disastrous. However, none of that mattered to her. After all, she was a singularity. She was unbound by the laws of this universe, and she contained multitudes of different laws and providences within her. She simply rewrote the common sense of the universe, applied what laws were convenient to her, and forced them into place.
Normally, cooling water would turn it into ice. However, if she said that the water would become fire instead, cooling water would then produce fire. Why? Who knows? She was able to do it, and that was that. The question of why never entered her mind at all.
“I can do it.”
That was the truth, and that was all that mattered.-Volume 9, Part 4
Essentially the argument against the rebuttal is that Alovenus always had the ability to ascend to levels above 1-A, because she was born as the manifestation of all things unrealistic in creation, but she didn't have a reason to until she met Ruphas.
Alovenus only originally became 1-A when she decided to save everyone, and she could do it because she believed she could, which is exactly how the Endpoint/Final Point works; as long you believe something is possible it is, as a singularity of creation, Alovenus has this ability.
Alovenus Ascending by Infinities
Reposting this statement from above, the fight between Alovenus and Ruphas is one where they pile infinity after infinity upon each other
Eventually, the Goddess removed her hands from her face and spoke, seeming to have calmed down. “Hee hee hee... That’s some talk. Are you sure you can do it? It may sound like boasting, but my temper is a bit...extradimensional.”
“I don’t mind.”
Lufas beckoned Alovenus, prompting Benetnasch, who had been waiting for the conversation to end, to heave an exasperated sigh. Orm let out some strained laughter himself, and the two of them looked at each other and nodded.
“This is it for us then. You can take care of this spoiled child by yourself,” said Benet.
“I’d like to say that I feel I could handle the Goddess too...” Orm said, pausing. “But it seems to me that things are reaching a point where we cannot keep up. I’ll leave the rest to you.”
From here on out, the fight would take place in a realm for gods who could make everything go exactly how they pleased.
Benetnasch and Orm had already been fighting in this Endpoint at a level normal people would consider godlike, and they were holding their own. However, they had realized something after that laugh. The fight up until now—with those big bangs and big crunches and whatnot—had been fought with the Goddess still holding back greatly. She might not have even considered it fighting. From here on out, things would be even harder. The combatants would climb to the summit of infinity, piling infinity after infinity upon each other. It would be a fight without any upper limits.
However, while Benetnasch might attempt to keep up for Lufas, she couldn’t work up that much fighting spirit against the Goddess. She knew she would always end up slowing down. In a similar fashion, Orm was unable to believe that he was the absolute strongest, well, strongly enough. He knew he would always end up paying attention to any inconsistencies and contradictions, causing shadows of doubt to sprout. He would unmistakably end up dropping out in the middle, and that could not be allowed.-Volume 9, Part 7
“I don’t mind.”
Lufas beckoned Alovenus, prompting Benetnasch, who had been waiting for the conversation to end, to heave an exasperated sigh. Orm let out some strained laughter himself, and the two of them looked at each other and nodded.
“This is it for us then. You can take care of this spoiled child by yourself,” said Benet.
“I’d like to say that I feel I could handle the Goddess too...” Orm said, pausing. “But it seems to me that things are reaching a point where we cannot keep up. I’ll leave the rest to you.”
From here on out, the fight would take place in a realm for gods who could make everything go exactly how they pleased.
Benetnasch and Orm had already been fighting in this Endpoint at a level normal people would consider godlike, and they were holding their own. However, they had realized something after that laugh. The fight up until now—with those big bangs and big crunches and whatnot—had been fought with the Goddess still holding back greatly. She might not have even considered it fighting. From here on out, things would be even harder. The combatants would climb to the summit of infinity, piling infinity after infinity upon each other. It would be a fight without any upper limits.
However, while Benetnasch might attempt to keep up for Lufas, she couldn’t work up that much fighting spirit against the Goddess. She knew she would always end up slowing down. In a similar fashion, Orm was unable to believe that he was the absolute strongest, well, strongly enough. He knew he would always end up paying attention to any inconsistencies and contradictions, causing shadows of doubt to sprout. He would unmistakably end up dropping out in the middle, and that could not be allowed.-Volume 9, Part 7
Infinity is obviously a quantitative measure for things, so this would seem to suggest they aren't ascending qualitatively. The previous statement I posted before about ascending into a higher world and ripping up settings seems to deny this, but I think we have to examine what exactly infinity means in this context.
In the cosmology blog I go over an important topic in AWLBA, essentially that the cast can ignore common sense/logic, because they have Alovenus power, who is the manifestation of all things irrational. The higher leveled you get the more irrational you become. By the time the characters reach level 4200 they can ignore: reason, providence, common sense, logic, theorems, and law.
The characters are already ignoring theorems at these lower levels, and in the fight between Ruphas and Alovenus, we see that they are enforcing their own definitions of things. The speed of light is used here as an example, in a fight with beings who have long since surpass that, it's clearly not the speed of light we normally think of, but their own definition of the speed of light
“Don’t worry about it.”
Orm also transferred all the mana he carried to Lufas before disappearing.
Aigokeros and Pisces said their farewells to their lord and master before disappearing to return to their homeworld.
Now there were only two people left: Lufas and Alovenus. From here on out, it would be a clash of wills to decide who was stronger, so it had to be one-on-one.
If we were to fight three-on-one, Alovenus probably wouldn’t accept the result. It’d give her wiggle room to make an excuse. That can’t be allowed. She has to completely accept her loss, or this lonely Goddess will never stop.
“Now then, Alovenus. We’re finally alone. No need to hold back...” Lufas paused. “Come at me!”
“Yes... Let’s start this thing!”
Lufas and Alovenus both raised their hands, unleashing manifestations of pure destruction that had no name. There was no more need for skill names. Thinking of them was too much work.
Both combatants wielded infinite power, so they each one-upped their opponent’s infinite power, going ever more infinite as the fight went on. Small attacks, like big bangs and big crunches, were no longer used. They would be useless, after all. With no need for skill names, they clashed with the purest expressions of power.
I’m strong, thought one.
I’m stronger, thought the other.
Then I’m even stronger than that, thought the first.
Lufas continued to get ever faster, continuing to double the speed of light to increase the definition of speed itself without end. However, Alovenus accelerated at a pace that left such definitions behind in the dust. The next moment, Lufas did the same thing back to Alovenus.
If Lufas threw a punch with impossible power behind it, Alovenus would double up on it and punch back, which prompted Lufas to add on another stack and return the favor. If one of them were to state that the other’s infinity was just a one to them, then the other would just come back with an even higher level. The two of them used each other as footstools, trying to set themselves as the absolute powerhouse in the fight.-Volume 9, Part 7
Orm also transferred all the mana he carried to Lufas before disappearing.
Aigokeros and Pisces said their farewells to their lord and master before disappearing to return to their homeworld.
Now there were only two people left: Lufas and Alovenus. From here on out, it would be a clash of wills to decide who was stronger, so it had to be one-on-one.
If we were to fight three-on-one, Alovenus probably wouldn’t accept the result. It’d give her wiggle room to make an excuse. That can’t be allowed. She has to completely accept her loss, or this lonely Goddess will never stop.
“Now then, Alovenus. We’re finally alone. No need to hold back...” Lufas paused. “Come at me!”
“Yes... Let’s start this thing!”
Lufas and Alovenus both raised their hands, unleashing manifestations of pure destruction that had no name. There was no more need for skill names. Thinking of them was too much work.
Both combatants wielded infinite power, so they each one-upped their opponent’s infinite power, going ever more infinite as the fight went on. Small attacks, like big bangs and big crunches, were no longer used. They would be useless, after all. With no need for skill names, they clashed with the purest expressions of power.
I’m strong, thought one.
I’m stronger, thought the other.
Then I’m even stronger than that, thought the first.
Lufas continued to get ever faster, continuing to double the speed of light to increase the definition of speed itself without end. However, Alovenus accelerated at a pace that left such definitions behind in the dust. The next moment, Lufas did the same thing back to Alovenus.
If Lufas threw a punch with impossible power behind it, Alovenus would double up on it and punch back, which prompted Lufas to add on another stack and return the favor. If one of them were to state that the other’s infinity was just a one to them, then the other would just come back with an even higher level. The two of them used each other as footstools, trying to set themselves as the absolute powerhouse in the fight.-Volume 9, Part 7
In addition, at Ruphas and Aloevnus level concepts and limits don't exist, Gods create their own, they force the world to conform to their own will/logic
Then... Right. This is all just a competition of will. It’s because I keep thinking useless thoughts like, “I’m at the limit of my strength,” or wondering how strong I really am, that I get caught up like this. What’s important here is just forcing things to be the way I like it. There doesn’t need to be any reason or logic behind that. Those are just useless.
“You may be strong, but I’m stronger!”
As she spoke, Lufas’s power soared, surpassing the setting that Alovenus had laid down.
Supergiant universe? Who the hell cares. Infinite stats? That doesn’t matter. You can overwrite anything? So what? “I am stronger than all of that.” This simple line will counter everything.
Oddly enough, Alovenus was right. At this level, the concept of strength no longer exists. Concepts, providence, laws, and limits—all of these are decided by gods, so it follows that none of them exist in their dominion. We would have had to create them on our own.
What I have to do is paint over this pure-white canvas of a space and insist that I’m right. Alovenus could do it, so we can do it too! We came from the world that Alovenus made, after all, so normal laws don’t apply to us! Now that I think about it, that’s probably why the laws of physics didn’t apply to us at all. Of course we would be able to do things that would normally be unthinkable. We inherited Alovenus’s power.
There’s no doubt that Alovenus is the strongest. That’s why the only thing that can defeat her is her own power. So from now on, it’s a match of will and strength, one where the opponent says they’re strong, and I say I’m stronger. This will just be a childish argument where we repeat that over and over. This is God’s territory, so I can do it. I can do anything!-Volume 9, Part 7
“You may be strong, but I’m stronger!”
As she spoke, Lufas’s power soared, surpassing the setting that Alovenus had laid down.
Supergiant universe? Who the hell cares. Infinite stats? That doesn’t matter. You can overwrite anything? So what? “I am stronger than all of that.” This simple line will counter everything.
Oddly enough, Alovenus was right. At this level, the concept of strength no longer exists. Concepts, providence, laws, and limits—all of these are decided by gods, so it follows that none of them exist in their dominion. We would have had to create them on our own.
What I have to do is paint over this pure-white canvas of a space and insist that I’m right. Alovenus could do it, so we can do it too! We came from the world that Alovenus made, after all, so normal laws don’t apply to us! Now that I think about it, that’s probably why the laws of physics didn’t apply to us at all. Of course we would be able to do things that would normally be unthinkable. We inherited Alovenus’s power.
There’s no doubt that Alovenus is the strongest. That’s why the only thing that can defeat her is her own power. So from now on, it’s a match of will and strength, one where the opponent says they’re strong, and I say I’m stronger. This will just be a childish argument where we repeat that over and over. This is God’s territory, so I can do it. I can do anything!-Volume 9, Part 7
So, when they increase their stats by infinity, it's not as we understand in a quantitative sense, but their own definition of infinity, which as posted before, we know that their transcendence allows them to transcend even those who could ascend to a higher plane and toss aside their settings like paper, and the abilities of Ruphas and Alovenus work by layering settings upon settings.
Conclusion
If accepted, Alovenus and Ruphas will have a rating like 1-A, up to 1-A+ via transcendence/ascending, and then their EOS keys will just be 1-A+. But I am interested to see what people think about this topic, could see this going either way.
She also kindve explains it in order. First she says abilities that are able to always set you above the opponent won't work. But then afterward, she says going to a "higher world" to tear apart the setting instead won't work either. She is basically kindly explaining this ability to us...so settings seem to have that kind of idea here.
. Alovenus layers settings upon settings, basically akin to an author, in doing so she treats infinite as just a 1 by going an infinite beyond that
