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Fecto Elfilis vs Void Termina

Flashlight237

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Okay, so maybe this'll be a closer match-up than Master Crown vs Void Termina. I have played Kirby and the Forgotten Land, so maybe I can handle this better.

So, as far as I'm aware, the scaling basically peaked at Void Termina and everything basically broke off from there. Elfilis' profile says that Kirby had gotten stronger, but it's a pretty vague descriptor. There's plenty of leeway to be had here. Fecto Elfilis had been fought by Kirby, optionally in addition to Bandana Dee; yet, Void Termina had been fought by FOUR characters (Kirby plus three allies). Through that technicality, it'd be more like this:

2x Kirby vs 4x Kirby

Even if Elfilis were to be physically stronger, Void Termina has a wider variety of hax that I feel will provide Void Termina with more options to put down Elfilis than Elfilis has to put down Void Termina.

That and I think it's a telling sign that Elfilis got demolished by a straight-up semi truck as opposed to the stuff Kirby had to use to handle Void Termina.

In regards to agility, I think Elfilis would be better in this regard than Void Termina, but that's more based on how they moved in their respective boss fights than anything else.

Anyway, this is 2-C Fecto Elfilis (I don't know why that distinction needed to be made since Kirby is straight-up 2-C at that point) against Void Termina. Here are their profiles.:

Fecto Elfilis' Profile
Void Termina's Profile

Who takes this?

Fecto Elfilis: 1 (Arceus0x)
Void Termina: 0
Inconclusive: 1 (Eficiente)
 
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Uh, I don't think that's how scaling works mate...doesn't really matter how many fought him, what matters is whom he scales to individually.
Outer shell VT can no-sell most hits from the Star Allies Sparkler unless they hit the eye. SAS > Kirby at least and so VT outer body is >> Kirby. Void Soul is a different story as he is <= SAS at full power where it is used by Kirby directly. Kirby can also fight it, even alone in Ultimate Choice if I remember correctly so it is somewhat comparable but generally above Kirby.
Fecto Elfilis fights Kirby directly and Bandana dee is very much an optional ally here, even more so than in any other game since here he doesn't even appear in cutscenes. This means Kirby can, in fact, solo FE. FE < Kirby > Kirby in SA < SAS => Void Soul
So in the end both scale close to each other, although VT's shell is notably above him in durability.

So it comes down to Hax in the end and tbh I think, funnily enough, FE might have an edge here. If he goes against Void Soul he could arguably get nuked by the mind waves, something FE doesn't resist I believe. At the same time im pretty sure he doesn't have enough mind control layers to win against VT's own resistance.
But then we have one thing that VT has no way of countering - BFR. FE could unironically just teleport VT to a different dimension. He doesn't do it to Kirby, sure, but at the same time if he keeps hitting VT and VT just tanks it with his outer shell he could just do it.
I think FE is too agile for VT's physical body and its attacks and if VT releases his eyes it could all lead to FE encountering Void Soul and getting haxxed, but at the same time I don't think FE would really get sucked into VT's body like Kirby did and even if he did he could probably get out with portals.

Overall, I think this whole fight is rather subjective but at the same time FE might have an edge here with portals so I'll hesitantly vote for him.
 
Uh, I don't think that's how scaling works mate...doesn't really matter how many fought him, what matters is whom he scales to individually.
Outer shell VT can no-sell most hits from the Star Allies Sparkler unless they hit the eye. SAS > Kirby at least and so VT outer body is >> Kirby. Void Soul is a different story as he is <= SAS at full power where it is used by Kirby directly. Kirby can also fight it, even alone in Ultimate Choice if I remember correctly so it is somewhat comparable but generally above Kirby.
Fecto Elfilis fights Kirby directly and Bandana dee is very much an optional ally here, even more so than in any other game since here he doesn't even appear in cutscenes. This means Kirby can, in fact, solo FE. FE < Kirby > Kirby in SA < SAS => Void Soul
So in the end both scale close to each other, although VT's shell is notably above him in durability.

So it comes down to Hax in the end and tbh I think, funnily enough, FE might have an edge here. If he goes against Void Soul he could arguably get nuked by the mind waves, something FE doesn't resist I believe. At the same time im pretty sure he doesn't have enough mind control layers to win against VT's own resistance.
But then we have one thing that VT has no way of countering - BFR. FE could unironically just teleport VT to a different dimension. He doesn't do it to Kirby, sure, but at the same time if he keeps hitting VT and VT just tanks it with his outer shell he could just do it.
I think FE is too agile for VT's physical body and its attacks and if VT releases his eyes it could all lead to FE encountering Void Soul and getting haxxed, but at the same time I don't think FE would really get sucked into VT's body like Kirby did and even if he did he could probably get out with portals.

Overall, I think this whole fight is rather subjective but at the same time FE might have an edge here with portals so I'll hesitantly vote for him.
Yeah, I had my own concerns with this match, but hey, at least it's fairly closer.
 
So, as far as I'm aware, the scaling basically peaked at Void Termina and everything basically broke off from there.
You could say that, yes.
Elfilis' profile says that Kirby had gotten stronger, but it's a pretty vague descriptor. There's plenty of leeway to be had here.
We don't know how strong is "getting stronger," so that's why.
That and I think it's a telling sign that Elfilis got demolished by a straight-up semi truck as opposed to the stuff Kirby had to use to handle Void Termina.
For the record, the truck attack was a MM ability, which are implied to be stronger than Copy Abilities (see Kirby's profile). The stuff Kirby pulled off against VT were still "more special" though.
this is 2-C Fecto Elfilis (I don't know why that distinction needed to be made since Kirby is straight-up 2-C at that point)
Bc I'm yet to edit his profile and update him.
Uh, I don't think that's how scaling works mate...doesn't really matter how many fought him, what matters is whom he scales to individually.
I disagree, would you be saying this if he had fought 10 Star Allies? How about 20? That's not to say that one is as strong as the amount of people they can fight at once, but that it's a pretty good display.

Regardless, all of Void Termina's phases are as powerful as each other, and his last form's beam attack could match the Star Allies Sparkler's "Team Star Allies Go!" attack (That's its name), which uses power not just from Kirby, but all the team. So this clash-out proves Void Termina to be around as strong as 4 Kirbys.
Fecto Elfilis fights Kirby directly and Bandana dee is very much an optional ally here, even more so than in any other game since here he doesn't even appear in cutscenes. This means Kirby can, in fact, solo FE. FE < Kirby > Kirby in SA < SAS => Void Soul
So in the end both scale close to each other, although VT's shell is notably above him in durability.
Hold on, there is no reason to jump into saying that "FE < Kirby." Kirby can defeat him, but defeating doesn't equal being stronger. In fact we see a weaked FE overpower Kirby's MM truck attack, which again, is stronger than a Copy Ability. It's more likely that FE was somewhat stronger, and Kirby was simply more skilled in their battle.

Also we don't know if "SAS => Void Soul," but that's fine.
So it comes down to Hax in the end and tbh I think, funnily enough, FE might have an edge here. If he goes against Void Soul he could arguably get nuked by the mind waves, something FE doesn't resist I believe.
Isn't this Story Mode VT?
At the same time im pretty sure he doesn't have enough mind control layers to win against VT's own resistance.
FE's mind control is said to be slow (to have slowly spread around the world), so we can't really say he can use it in combat, since we don't know if he can. He could use minions against Kirby as a truck, but those were already under his control.
But then we have one thing that VT has no way of countering - BFR. FE could unironically just teleport VT to a different dimension. He doesn't do it to Kirby, sure, but at the same time if he keeps hitting VT and VT just tanks it with his outer shell he could just do it.
Well, VT can create portals back to the fight. He did so to travel into another reality as mere darkness before creating his body, and was going to come back to destroy the universe.
----
Those were my thoughts on what was said so far. However, I don't know how wins immediately.
  • In terms of power and durability, as we know, Kirby has gotten stronger in Fighters 2, and we don't know how strong is "getting stronger is," so I'll give VT the edge, since being x4 times stronger than a weaker Kirby is a quantifiable, more impressive edge. Still, it is a relatively minor edge.
  • In terms of speed, the cast doesn't get faster, so VT's cores and FE are even. VT's outer shell is slower, however, the fight against Kirby & co. was still an even fight. Let's not assume he is as slow as in gameplay, as in, the threat of him being able to land hits is very much there. Still, FE has an edge there, and he can even "teleport" by using his portals over himself very fast. So this will help him a lot.
  • FE doesn't resist mind control, so he can get hax'd in the last phase.
  • FE could try to assimilate VT. His profile isn't updated with this yet, but turns out he went from planet to planet doing that to others before the events of the game. We all know the scenes were he did so twice in the game. And, one could miss this out, but his soul form was going to try to do the same, before being interrupted. So even if he didn't use it in gameplay, he can pull this move. He won't against VT's outer shell forms, as they are too big. But, once they fall, he might just use it, w/o going inside his body. Or if he gets sucked inside, he might use it against the First Core. This even works against souls, so the soul inside yet to come out wouldn't be save.
I will go inconclusive, at least for now.
 
I disagree, would you be saying this if he had fought 10 Star Allies? How about 20? That's not to say that one is as strong as the amount of people they can fight at once, but that it's a pretty good display.
We don't really know how much they affect the fight though, not to mention that at no point is there an attack where Void overpowers or matches all 4 of the allies until his final laser but even then its questionable whether its SAS+Kirby or SAS+every ally
Regardless, all of Void Termina's phases are as powerful as each other, and his last form's beam attack could match the Star Allies Sparkler's "Team Star Allies Go!" attack (That's its name), which uses power not just from Kirby, but all the team. So this clash-out proves Void Termina to be around as strong as 4 Kirbys.
ok that answers my question above and in this case then VT's strongest beam attack is 4x above Kirby. That's it. Normal attacks aren't 4x above, thus its the only really important hting here.
Hold on, there is no reason to jump into saying that "FE < Kirby." Kirby can defeat him, but defeating doesn't equal being stronger.
It does though, he beats him half to death and leaves him melting on the floor, its one of Kirby's most blatant victories
In fact we see a weaked FE overpower Kirby's MM truck attack, which again, is stronger than a Copy Ability.
Except the truck jumped from the ground and FE overpowered its jump. In the end it would be different if Kirby was on hard ground since, ya know, a truck is far more effective on the ground than 100 feet in the air, even if there was lower gravity
It's more likely that FE was somewhat stronger, and Kirby was simply more skilled in their battle.
Maybe, maybe not, his last bit of power was wasted trying to overpower Kirby's truck jumping through the air, it very much looked like a last ditch effort to stop him, so at most I can see FE being just slightly above Kirby with his asbolute strongest attacks. Kirby beat a stronger version of Elfilis powered by chaos energy and then his orb form which is even stronger so there's that.
Also we don't know if "SAS => Void Soul," but that's fine.
I meant that in the sense that SAS final beam and Void's beam clash ended in SAS winning and since SAS is above the normal sparkler which is already somewhat above the power of Kirby, whilst Kirby can fight VT normally outside of his final beam clash.
Isn't this Story Mode VT?
uh, what does that change? VT has the mind waves in all versions
FE's mind control is said to be slow (to have slowly spread around the world), so we can't really say he can use it in combat, since we don't know if he can. He could use minions against Kirby as a truck, but those were already under his control.
I mean Dedede, Kirby and MK all arrived at the same time or so and MK and Ddd were both affected very quickly (mk broke through but still). We also see FE possess and control Leongar instantly the moment we defeat him and afaik Leongar got controlled immediately after meeting FE as well
"These two were famous leaders of the animal kingdom...until Leon found ID-F86. After that, he began speaking in a language Carol couldn't understand..."
There's nothing that suggests it is slow.
Well, VT can create portals back to the fight. He did so to travel into another reality as mere darkness before creating his body, and was going to come back to destroy the universe.
Problem is, we don't know if he can actually return. He could travel once as darkness but afterwards we never see him use portals in any way shape or form. It is unknown if he can "return" to where FE is instead of just going to a random reality

Most importantly - it's not on his profile at all.
----
Those were my thoughts on what was said so far. However, I don't know how wins immediately.
  • In terms of power and durability, as we know, Kirby has gotten stronger in Fighters 2, and we don't know how strong is "getting stronger is," so I'll give VT the edge, since being x4 times stronger than a weaker Kirby is a quantifiable, more impressive edge. Still, it is a relatively minor edge.
4x with his beam, sure, not with the rest of the attacks, the beam is clearly way above anything he used so otherwise his soul would scale some extent above Kirby
  • In terms of speed, the cast doesn't get faster, so VT's cores and FE are even. VT's outer shell is slower, however, the fight against Kirby & co. was still an even fight. Let's not assume he is as slow as in gameplay, as in, the threat of him being able to land hits is very much there. Still, FE has an edge there, and he can even "teleport" by using his portals over himself very fast. So this will help him a lot.
true
  • FE doesn't resist mind control, so he can get hax'd in the last phase.
that's true but that's assuming this will go phase by phase like in the game. We can't ignore that FE can just...not get sucked into VT's body and not unleash his soul forme and just keep fighting his
  • FE could try to assimilate VT. His profile isn't updated with this yet, but turns out he went from planet to planet doing that to others before the events of the game. We all know the scenes were he did so twice in the game. And, one could miss this out, but his soul form was going to try to do the same, before being interrupted. So even if he didn't use it in gameplay, he can pull this move. He won't against VT's outer shell forms, as they are too big. But, once they fall, he might just use it, w/o going inside his body. Or if he gets sucked inside, he might use it against the First Core. This even works against souls, so the soul inside yet to come out wouldn't be save.
that's actually an interesting take, he does absorb entities straight up in the game
I will go inconclusive, at least for now.
fair
 
We don't really know how much they affect the fight though, not to mention that at no point is there an attack where Void overpowers or matches all 4 of the allies until his final laser but even then its questionable whether its SAS+Kirby or SAS+every ally

ok that answers my question above and in this case then VT's strongest beam attack is 4x above Kirby. That's it. Normal attacks aren't 4x above, thus its the only really important hting here.
Before using his "strongest beam attack," the beam attacks he was using, which was rematching the "Team Star Allies Go!" attack, were the same beam attack his phase 4 was using in combat. So yes, he is that strong in general. He is not pulling more power out of nowhere; If anything, all other versions of VT die before even that point. Only Story Mode VT pulls this final effort, even his TUC version with the same colors.
It does though, he beats him half to death and leaves him melting on the floor, its one of Kirby's most blatant victories
He is "half-dead" and "melting" bc he lost a part of himself he needed to be in that form, maybe even to live on the long run. What Kirby does is defeat him, and anyone defeating FE will cause Elfilin to pop up in his back like that, and anyone removing Elfilin will cause FE to be half-dead and melting, Kirby did not cause this due to being more powerful, he caused that due to defeating him.
Except the truck jumped from the ground and FE overpowered its jump. In the end it would be different if Kirby was on hard ground since, ya know, a truck is far more effective on the ground than 100 feet in the air, even if there was lower gravity
I will explain: The "jump" would have hit FE with more power than any other attack Kirby has, and was matching a similar amount of power going against it while trying to push it down, proving the power behind the attack to be far above the factor of "gravity" being relevant. If the factor of gravity was relevant, FE's attack would need to touch the truck once and that's it, it would fall. But the fantasy creature that is Kirby made it so his stats were going into FE's direction, needing an equal or higher force to stop it. Worse, it was somehow constantly going into that direction in the short time the clash lasted, which is nonsense, but it's what happened.
Maybe, maybe not, his last bit of power was wasted trying to overpower Kirby's truck jumping through the air, it very much looked like a last ditch effort to stop him, so at most I can see FE being just slightly above Kirby with his asbolute strongest attacks. Kirby beat a stronger version of Elfilis powered by chaos energy and then his orb form which is even stronger so there's that.
Well, FE looks tired right before the clash, so I would't say adrenalin was hitting in and he was attacking better than before. He was just as strong as before, or weaker. But yes, it doesn't grant him anything beyond being slightly above Kirby. With any attack I say.

Well, as the game goes on, Kirby does get better, "stronger" Copy Abilities to use, and Bandana Dee somehow gets stronger to match their evotution level. ...and maybe Kirby got stronger but who knows those things.
I meant that in the sense that SAS final beam and Void's beam clash ended in SAS winning and since SAS is above the normal sparkler which is already somewhat above the power of Kirby, whilst Kirby can fight VT normally outside of his final beam clash.
Sure, they won. But they were on around the same level in general. Idk if the normal Sparkler is already somewhat above the power of Kirby, maybe it is, maybe it isn't. It is above a Warp Star, which is not on that level.
uh, what does that change? VT has the mind waves in all versions
Void Soul comes from a stronger version of VT. Not much changes though.
I mean Dedede, Kirby and MK all arrived at the same time or so and MK and Ddd were both affected very quickly (mk broke through but still).
There is some time dilation that made time move faster in the New World next to Kirby's universe, Dedede was stated to be months there trying to find Kirby. I think I got it covered in the Cosmology blog.
We also see FE possess and control Leongar instantly the moment we defeat him and afaik Leongar got controlled immediately after meeting FE as well
"These two were famous leaders of the animal kingdom...until Leon found ID-F86. After that, he began speaking in a language Carol couldn't understand..."
There's nothing that suggests it is slow.
FE was affecting that guy in particular for a very long time, being his first victim. And in Fecto Dreams, he had him in a bubble to possess him before Kirby went inside Fecto Dreams and finished all the levels there.

He was "Gradually gaining control of the animals". Basically, we don't know if the "slow" part affects how many beings he can affect at once, or how fast his mind control to whip out. But there is no evidence of the latter being quick enough to use in combat.
Problem is, we don't know if he can actually return. He could travel once as darkness but afterwards we never see him use portals in any way shape or form. It is unknown if he can "return" to where FE is instead of just going to a random reality
Well, in the end of the day he still has that power in his profile, if you want to make a CRT about it later (I would not agree with removing that). But sure, maybe he only knows how to go into the reality where we fight him and Kirby's universe, nothing beyond that. I don't take it as a definitive possibility though.
Most importantly - it's not on his profile at all.
"Portal Creation (Created a portal to a different dimension that remains behind the Divine Terminus and appears to be bigger than it)"
that's true but that's assuming this will go phase by phase like in the game. We can't ignore that FE can just...not get sucked into VT's body and not unleash his soul forme and just keep fighting his
I know, there is not way of knowing if that will happen or not. Maybe he will think that he won and move on with his day, then VT rises up and the fight starts from 0...minus any damage FE had. Maybe he will sense life inside the body and attack it from the outside, and who knows if it's a good idea next to willingly going inside VT. Since the latter can recover and all, and his body is hella durable. Or maybe he takes the bait and enters inside him.
 
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