Code Lyoko Speed Re-Upgrade

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Greetings everyone. It is I, the sane professor who’s come back from the depths of procrastination and hiatus to bring forth a new CRT for kicks and giggles. And this time its Code Lyoko on the horizon. I noticed recently it went through a few changes, so now i'm doing my due diligence by making a thread to express my thoughts on said changes. First up would be the changes to speed.

It came to my attention from this recent thread that Code Lyoko (or mostly X.A.N.A. & Ulrich who are pretty much the only ones so far to have page)s had their speeds downgraded from Relativistic to Superhuman because of the lasers of XANA’s monsters in the verse lacking evidence of fitting with the Laser standards to be considered light speed. Obviously, quite a big jump. While I agree the initial handling of this was very badly done, I disagree with this downgrade and think the verse’s speed should return to Relativistic or at least have a similar rating. The main reason for Code Lyoko not fitting within the laser standards beforehand was the verse just being incredibly outdated. As the one who made XANA’s page initially in the first place, Code Lyoko just existed on the site prior to us updating or creating the laser standards, so it never needed to adjust to that earlier on, until now. Admittedly, thats a fault of mine since I never made more pages or additions to the verse sooner, especially for not being as active as before.

Having said that, the verse’s lasers do in fact have some evidence of qualifying under the standards. And even with light speed or Relativistic taken off of the table, Superhuman speed is far too low for them to be rated by, as I'll explain why. So let's dive right into this.

Evidence for Light Speed / Relativistic​

So, as the original poster talked about in his thread, these are the standards for lasers to be light speed here:

• The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or...
• The beam diffuses in a reasonably realistic way or reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror.
• The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources.
• It is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source.
• It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera.

And indeed, they are correct about this being the standards. However, as I mentioned before, Code Lyoko’s lasers do have evidence of fitting the standards, at least a part of them, that wasn't brought up before.

XANA’s Monsters Lasers Reflecting​

We’ve seen lasers from XANA’s monsters being able to be reflected off of things, and on a number of different occasions. Such cases:

-Ulrich’s sword reflecting the monsters lasers

-Ulrich’s sword doing so again

-Doing it again here

-William’s sword reflecting the lasers.

-Even in the real world, this happens. In an episode when XANA materializes his monsters into the real world, their lasers are able to be reflected off of a katana sword Ulrich uses. Here as well.

XANAfied Human Lasers Reflecting​

-This example here isn’t from one of XANA’s monsters, but from a human possessed by XANA. XANAfied humans are able to unleash laser beams of their own in that state when XANA possesses them in the real world, and theyre able to be reflected off of glass.

-Same thing happens here, a XANAfied human shoots a laser that can be reflected off mirrors, and Ulrich here in the real world even moves and grabs the mirror after the beam is fired.

These same XANAfied humans are among the many things XANA throws at the Lyoko warriors in the real world for them to fight, so they consistently go up against and hold their own against these kind of real world XANA threats.

In addition to this, even if the argument for XANA’s monsters or his XANAfied humans doesn’t hold up well, there are other supporting details to add here as well.

Lyoko Warriors Reacting to Laser Beams​

This in particular isn’t from XANA’s monsters either, but is still important evidence to bring up for feats.

Yumi & Odd in Season 1, even while in the real world, were able to more than once react to a laser beam from a Satellite XANA took control of, which as we see is able to travel from outer space to the ground extremely quickly. The first time, Yumi and Odd were in the middle of running, and they jump out of the way after the laser beam gets fired before it can reach the ground.

The second time, Yumi straight up faces the laser directly coming at her, and while she cant physically evade it in time because of her tripping over, she is able to visibly react to the laser while its in the middle of moving, only being saved by Aelita deactivating the tower to cause the laser to freeze in its tracks at the last second.

Now, notice how these feats in particular come from the Lyoko warriors real world selves, also? This should scale to their Lyoko forms since their virtual selves are, by narrative and self-explainable purposes, far superior to their real world selves.

This is even confirmed to be the case in-universe when Odd in this episode states that their natural talents are multiplied on Lyoko, signifying that their virtual incarnations physically have far superior superhuman capabilities and whatnot compared to their real world selves.

TL;DR​

Code Lyoko admittedly has been handled rather poorly. But simply put, one way or another, X.A.N.A and the Lyoko characters (once they actually get pages at some point) should have their speeds upgraded much beyond what the downgrade put them at. There’s evidence to make a case for the lasers being light speed, and even if not that fast, definitely fast enough to be at bare minimum closer to the prior Relativistic ratings. MHS+ if nothing else is on the table.

Agree:

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

XANA’s Monsters Lasers Reflecting​

We’ve seen lasers from XANA’s monsters being able to be reflected off of things, and on a number of different occasions. Such cases:

-Ulrich’s sword reflecting the monsters lasers

-Ulrich’s sword doing so again

-Doing it again here

-William’s sword reflecting the lasers.

These don't seem like realistic reflections (notice the sword glowing before the laser hits it). Wiliam is specially egregious when it looks like he's batting away the lasers, not properly reflecting.

-Even in the real world, this happens. In an episode when XANA materializes his monsters into the real world, their lasers are able to be reflected off of a katana sword Ulrich uses. Here as well.

This however is proper laser reflection.

XANAfied Human Lasers Reflecting​

-This example here isn’t from one of XANA’s monsters, but from a human possessed by XANA. XANAfied humans are able to unleash laser beams of their own in that state when XANA possesses them in the real world, and theyre able to be reflected off of glass.

-Same thing happens here, a XANAfied human shoots a laser that can be reflected off mirrors, and Ulrich here in the real world even moves and grabs the mirror after the beam is fired.

While these attacks are properly reflected, notice we don't only have a set of requirements the laser attacks should showcase, we also have a set of things that can disqualify energy beams as being realistic. In particular:

The beam curves through the air or otherwise doesn't travel in straight lines (with the exception of realistic refraction or deflection).

So I wouldn't support these as actual lasers.

Overall, the issue here is that this only meets one of the requirements for lasers, when our rules do state it should meet a couple and not be contradicted:

Please note that the opposite of these criteria do not prove a beam is at lightspeed, merely that it could be, should it meet enough criteria from the first list. Should there be great evidence in favor of the light being real or lightspeed, a comparably minor showing against it being real can be overruled.

Of course, the exact criteria to be met is left for the evaluating staff. And at least to me, this isn't enough to scale everyone to relativistic speeds. That being said:

Lyoko Warriors Reacting to Laser Beams​

This in particular isn’t from XANA’s monsters either, but is still important evidence to bring up for feats.

Yumi & Odd in Season 1, even while in the real world, were able to more than once react to a laser beam from a Satellite XANA took control of, which as we see is able to travel from outer space to the ground extremely quickly. The first time, Yumi and Odd were in the middle of running, and they jump out of the way after the laser beam gets fired before it can reach the ground.

The second time, Yumi straight up faces the laser directly coming at her, and while she cant physically evade it in time because of her tripping over, she is able to visibly react to the laser while its in the middle of moving, only being saved by Aelita deactivating the tower to cause the laser to freeze in its tracks at the last second.

This shows promise and should get a proper calc of the beam traveling from satellite orbit to the ground and the characters evading it.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

As the staff that evaluated the last thread, your thoughts here would be appreciated: @DarkDragonMedeus @Celestial_Pegasus

Further staff members that I would like their thoughts here: @Agnaa @Damage3245 @Armorchompy

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The new information about the lasers being real lasers look good now; however, the physical combat and reaction speeds of the characters moving relative to the beams is a different story that can use their own steps.

 

[Franstel]

XANA’s Monsters Lasers Reflecting​

We’ve seen lasers from XANA’s monsters being able to be reflected off of things, and on a number of different occasions. Such cases:

-Ulrich’s sword reflecting the monsters lasers

-Ulrich’s sword doing so again

-Doing it again here

-William’s sword reflecting the lasers.

-Even in the real world, this happens. In an episode when XANA materializes his monsters into the real world, their lasers are able to be reflected off of a katana sword Ulrich uses. Here as well.

Problem with that it is, yes the laser sometimes get reflected but most of the time they just disapear when they are parried and Yumi too can reflect laser like here and she do it with fans. So it's more likely a case of Attack Reflection more than anything. As for the real world simply being reflectable is not enough.

XANAfied Human Lasers Reflecting​

-This example here isn’t from one of XANA’s monsters, but from a human possessed by XANA. XANAfied humans are able to unleash laser beams of their own in that state when XANA possesses them in the real world, and theyre able to be reflected off of glass.

-Same thing happens here, a XANAfied human shoots a laser that can be reflected off mirrors, and Ulrich here in the real world even moves and grabs the mirror after the beam is fired.

These same XANAfied humans are among the many things XANA throws at the Lyoko warriors in the real world for them to fight, so they consistently go up against and hold their own against these kind of real world XANA threats.

It's electricity that is fired. Characters touched also show clear sign of being electrocuted and it is also conducted by metal.

Lyoko Warriors Reacting to Laser Beams​

This in particular isn’t from XANA’s monsters either, but is still important evidence to bring up for feats.

Yumi & Odd in Season 1, even while in the real world, were able to more than once react to a laser beam from a Satellite XANA took control of, which as we see is able to travel from outer space to the ground extremely quickly. The first time, Yumi and Odd were in the middle of running, and they jump out of the way after the laser beam gets fired before it can reach the ground.

The second time, Yumi straight up faces the laser directly coming at her, and while she cant physically evade it in time because of her tripping over, she is able to visibly react to the laser while its in the middle of moving, only being saved by Aelita deactivating the tower to cause the laser to freeze in its tracks at the last second.

Now, notice how these feats in particular come from the Lyoko warriors real world selves, also? This should scale to their Lyoko forms since their virtual selves are, by narrative and self-explainable purposes, far superior to their real world selves.

This is even confirmed to be the case in-universe when Odd in this episode states that their natural talents are multiplied on Lyoko, signifying that their virtual incarnations physically have far superior superhuman capabilities and whatnot compared to their real world selves.

I forgot about that one so it could be possible to get a reaction out of it.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Problem with that it is, yes the laser sometimes get reflected but most of the time they just disapear when they are parried and Yumi too can reflect laser like here and she do it with fans. So it's more likely a case of Attack Reflection more than anything. As for the real world simply being reflectable is not enough.

Yeah, that is pretty damning.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Problem with that it is, yes the laser sometimes get reflected but most of the time they just disapear when they are parried and Yumi too can reflect laser like here and she do it with fans. So it's more likely a case of Attack Reflection more than anything. As for the real world simply being reflectable is not enough.

Actually, the type of fans used by Yumi are intended to resemble these. There are shiny metallic alloys in the fans, so that's supporting evidence of consisting repelling off shiny pieces of metal.

It's electricity that is fired. Characters touched also show clear sign of being electrocuted and it is also conducted by metal.

But I do agree that looks more like machine generated electricity than laser.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Unfortunately (only because I'd love Relativistic Code Lyoko and not because of disliking Franstel or anything like that) , I'm going to be agreeing with Franstel until more evidence can strength Kukui's argument.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

These don't seem like realistic reflections (notice the sword glowing before the laser hits it). Wiliam is specially egregious when it looks like he's batting away the lasers, not properly reflecting.

I thought we accepted swords reflecting beams generally speaking, even if they're in an attacking motion? Didn't we accept that, for say, Renji for Bleach's FTL ratings IIRC?

If that isn't the case, then I suppose I understand this point. However, I think the second clip I gave should be able to be realistic reflecting? Since in that one, Ulrich is only really positioning his sword to deflect the Kankrelats laser before it can hit Aelita rather than forcibly swat it away like William did.

While these attacks are properly reflected, notice we don't only have a set of requirements the laser attacks should showcase, we also have a set of things that can disqualify energy beams as being realistic. In particular:

So I wouldn't support these as actual lasers.

Overall, the issue here is that this only meets one of the requirements for lasers, when our rules do state it should meet a couple and not be contradicted:

Of course, the exact criteria to be met is left for the evaluating staff. And at least to me, this isn't enough to scale everyone to relativistic speeds. That being said:

That's also fair. These I brought in as a start mainly because, having done RTs for the verse, this came immediately to mind after viewing the downgrade thread claiming there wasn't any criteria met when at least this one definitely is.

Problem with that it is, yes the laser sometimes get reflected but most of the time they just disapear when they are parried and Yumi too can reflect laser like here and she do it with fans. So it's more likely a case of Attack Reflection more than anything. As for the real world simply being reflectable is not enough.

Like Dark dragon said, Yumi's fans have reflective properties from what they're based on, but besides that, half the time Ulrich & Yumi can be deflecting them, or the other times they forcibly dispel the lasers with force, and even then, at times those get reflected when parried. Such as in one of the clips I gave for Ulrich.

It's electricity that is fired. Characters touched also show clear sign of being electrocuted and it is also conducted by metal.

At the very least then, this should be expected to grant MHS or such speed levels at the minimum if Relativistic, LS or whatnot are not options. If the latter can't be reached, that's one thing, but XANAfied humans and Polymorphs created by XANA consistently fighting with electricity should still be a sizable speed upgrade compared to where they are at now.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

At the very least then, this should be expected to grant MHS or such speed levels at the minimum if Relativistic, LS or whatnot are not options. If the latter can't be reached, that's one thing, but XANAfied humans and Polymorphs created by XANA consistently fighting with electricity should still be a sizable speed upgrade compared to where they are at now.

God, I wish, but electricity standards are another beast too

Still, yeah, that satellite feat is definitely promising

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Bump

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Bump

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

bump

 

[StrymULTRA]

At the very least then, this should be expected to grant MHS or such speed levels at the minimum if Relativistic, LS or whatnot are not options. If the latter can't be reached, that's one thing, but XANAfied humans and Polymorphs created by XANA consistently fighting with electricity should still be a sizable speed upgrade compared to where they are at now.

Electricity is Supersonic here actually.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well, putting that aside for now, there's still the matter of the laser feat that should definitely be worth something.

 

[StrymULTRA]

-Ulrich’s sword reflecting the monsters lasers

-Ulrich’s sword doing so again

-Doing it again here

-William’s sword reflecting the lasers.

-Even in the real world, this happens. In an episode when XANA materializes his monsters into the real world, their lasers are able to be reflected off of a katana sword Ulrich uses. Here as well.

Not stated to be a laser (no it going in a straight line is not enough as every beam in fiction is that), so nah.

-This example here isn’t from one of XANA’s monsters, but from a human possessed by XANA. XANAfied humans are able to unleash laser beams of their own in that state when XANA possesses them in the real world, and theyre able to be reflected off of glass.

Does NOT move in a straight line, this is an automatic disqualifier.

-Same thing happens here, a XANAfied human shoots a laser that can be reflected off mirrors, and Ulrich here in the real world even moves and grabs the mirror after the beam is fired.

Neither does this.

Yumi & Odd in Season 1, even while in the real world, were able to more than once react to a laser beam from a Satellite XANA took control of, which as we see is able to travel from outer space to the ground extremely quickly. The first time, Yumi and Odd were in the middle of running, and they jump out of the way after the laser beam gets fired before it can reach the ground.

TBH I'd just calc the beam in itself than just assuming it's a SoL laser just because.

The second time, Yumi straight up faces the laser directly coming at her, and while she cant physically evade it in time because of her tripping over, she is able to visibly react to the laser while its in the middle of moving, only being saved by Aelita deactivating the tower to cause the laser to freeze in its tracks at the last second.

Neither is this stated to be SoL.

Actually, the type of fans used by Yumi are intended to resemble these. There are shiny metallic alloys in the fans, so that's supporting evidence of consisting repelling off shiny pieces of metal.

What do you think about these?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Not stated to be a laser (no it going in a straight line is not enough as every beam in fiction is that), so nah.

I mean, not really? Thats kind of why we have traveling in a straight path as one of the qualifiers for LS, as well as reflection. But this was discussed earlier too, it's a start to go in that direction but may not be enough.

TBH I'd just calc the beam in itself than just assuming it's a SoL laser just because.

Neither is this stated to be SoL.

Considering this is from a satellite and it's traveling from outer space to the ground incredibly quickly, id say SoL should be a fair assumption. Either way, this laser feat is worth something if it can be calced.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I mean, not really? Thats kind of why we have traveling in a straight path as one of the qualifiers for LS, as well as reflection. But this was discussed earlier too, it's a start to go in that direction but may not be enough.

It always was, actually. I dunno you, but by what I always saw, there must always be a statement of the thing being a laser, being made of light/photons, otherwise is a no-no, even if it travels in a straight line.

And no, just coming out from a robot is no longer an acceptable factor anymore.

Considering this is from a satellite and it's traveling from outer space to the ground incredibly quickly, id say SoL should be a fair assumption. Either way, this laser feat is worth something if it can be calced.

It indeed can be calced, as even a MHS thing can go on Earth from space quickly.

By a rogue estimate I'd say it's around Mach 500, but I'd need to calc it myself.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

It always was, actually. I dunno you, but by what I always saw, there must always be a statement of the thing being a laser, being made of light/photons, otherwise is a no-no, even if it travels in a straight line.

And no, just coming out from a robot is no longer an acceptable factor anymore.

Taking a quick glance at that thread, it says coming from a robot or technological sources isn't automatically considered LS anymore, not that it can't ever be an acceptable factor. And while reasonable, Code Lyoko is very much a verse grounded to real life physics and technology instead of using something fictionally other-worldly like space plasma guns and whatnot. Given that, I don't really see why coming from machinery or something more blatant like a satellite prevents it from qualifying.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Taking a quick glance at that thread, it says coming from a robot or technological sources isn't automatically considered LS anymore, not that it can't ever be an acceptable factor. And while reasonable, Code Lyoko is very much a verse grounded to real life physics and technology instead of using something fictionally other-worldly like space plasma guns and whatnot. Given that, I don't really see why coming from machinery or something more blatant like a satellite prevents it from qualifying.

It's not a matter of "prevents" as if contradiction, more like a factor of "not enough to qualify".

In all the time I was here, there was never a case where simply being a beam fired from a technological piece that travels in a straight line was automatically given to SoL, a statement of it being related to light was always mandatory for these cases.

Yuga from MHA's Navel Laser for example is not SoL because of it just traveling in a straight line (and there's a whole discussion rule on it), we do not make Pokémon's Hyper Beam SoL just because Porygon can use the move either.

And mind you, a thread using your exact same basis of "straight line + robot source = SoL" was rejected right because of it not being enough, so I do not see why this should either.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

It's not a matter of "prevents" as if contradiction, more like a factor of "not enough to qualify".

In all the time I was here, there was never a case where simply being a beam fired from a technological piece that travels in a straight line was automatically given to SoL, a statement of it being related to light was always mandatory for these cases.

Yuga from MHA's Navel Laser for example is not SoL because of it just traveling in a straight line (and there's a whole discussion rule on it), we do not make Pokémon's Hyper Beam SoL just because Porygon can use the move either.

And mind you, a thread using your exact same basis of "straight line + robot source = SoL" was rejected right because of it not being enough, so I do not see why this should either.

Oh don't get me wrong, im not saying it should be the only thing needed for it to qualify, I wouldn't agree with that. Moreso I meant that coming from a technology thats reasonably acceptable, rather than something fictionally out-of-our-world, should be able to be A factor for consideration amongst the other variables like reflection, refraction, etc. generally speaking.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Oh don't get me wrong, im not saying it should be the only thing needed for it to qualify, I wouldn't agree with that. Moreso I meant that coming from a technology thats reasonably acceptable, rather than something fictionally out-of-our-world, should be able to be A factor for consideration amongst the other variables like reflection, refraction, etc. generally speaking.

Too bad that it's not anymore, so you shouldn't use the fact that it comes from a machine as a factor, because the Wiki no longer accepts that.

For me it also seems just a ordinary ass beam and nothing else, especially given that all the rest can be achieved without being a laser in the literal sense.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

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[ProfessorKukui4Life]

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