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Sonic General Discussion Zone Act 1: New Frontiers

Gerald never says what you are claiming he is, stop being disingenuous and ignoring the context
I’m not being disingenuous, Gerald flat out says “We must not pollute the time stream, if you can stop this crisis, space time will shift and settle back into place” (which yes, does confirm both space and time follow the resettling effect), and that pivotal moments in history being restored would cause the rest to find equilibrium (which, given that some of the levels are in the future, means history is referring to all eras of time)
Which never do anything to restore the world, Tails specifies they'll need to restore the world themselves, so again, stop ignoring the context of a line just cause you don't want a character to have a certain hax... yes i am saying this is what you are doing, given you admitted bias a while ago
In the 3DS version which is debatable canon.
No? He is specifically talking about past pivotal moments and time paradoxes, as that is the whole context of the conversation to begin with, again, stop ignoring it
He’s not referring to the past specifically, he’s talking about pivotal moments in history, which normally would just be the past…except there are future events you traverse as well.
And this proves affecting one will erase the other inherently because? Again, stop shifting the point you are making, answer directly or don't answer at all
See above, both space and time are part of the resettling effect.
You want to affirm things? PROVE IT, if you can't, you don't have an argument i will ignore you
Prove that every chaos emerald user has the exact same ability to destroy and recreate all of these cosmology elements just because they have the same power source, which doesn’t make sense without further context when they’re different beings in physiology.
 
This damn notification glitch lol, always haunting me.

Sonic Question Time: If you could guarantee a crossover appearance in the upcoming CrossWorlds title, which character would it be?

I think, aside from NiGHTS, it would be cool to see somebody like DJ Professor K from Jet Set Radio would be an amazing choice (especially since Jet Set Radio is supposed to be getting an upcoming game)
Hmm, Kazuma Kiryu perhaps? First one that comes mind
I need to finish my Yakuza playthroughs
Edit: Ooh, or Segata Sanshiro
 
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I’m not being disingenuous
ignoring the context of the statement is what?

, Gerald flat out says “We must not pollute the time stream, if you can stop this crisis, space time will shift and settle back into place” (which yes, does confirm both space and time follow the resettling effect)
1 prove that phrase, send link

2 again, he is talking about time paradoxes, hence why he said to not "pollute the time stream", which has NOTHING to do with the Erasure by the TIme Eater, which he doesn't even know the cause

, and that pivotal moments in history being restored would cause the rest to find equilibrium (which, given that some of the levels are in the future, means history is referring to all eras of time)
The future is always the past of the future of the future, regardless, again, he isn't talking about the restoring the erasure, so it doesn't matter

In the 3DS version which is debatable canon.
I'm not having this conversation, address the point or do not answer

He’s not referring to the past specifically, he’s talking about pivotal moments in history, which normally would just be the past…except there are future events you traverse as well.
Again, irrelevant as he wasn't talking about erasure, but time paradoxes to begin with

See above, both space and time are part of the resettling effect.
Irrelevant, stop shifting your point, you were saying that he is talking about the erasure, you showed not proof of that, that is all

Prove that every chaos emerald user has the exact same ability to destroy and recreate all of these cosmology elements just because they have the same power source,
Proved that this power doesn't come from the Emeralds, you said they were Solaris' innate abbilities... now prove that, else you don't have a point

which doesn’t make sense without further context when they’re different beings in physiology.
prove their powers are affected by physiology, more over, prove Solaris' physiology was the cause

again, your self admited bias is showing, stop being disingenuous
 
ignoring the context of the statement is what?


1 prove that phrase, send link

2 again, he is talking about time paradoxes, hence why he said to not "pollute the time stream", which has NOTHING to do with the Erasure by the TIme Eater, which he doesn't even know the cause
Referring to Gerald’s conversations here, at one point he makes reference to the timestream being “damaged”, which is almost certainly referring to the erasure, meaning he knows about it.
I'm not having this conversation, address the point or do not answer
Even though Ian said stuff like only Colors DS being canon out of the handhelds, pretty sure there was a thread here about removing Gens 3DS canonicity.
Proved that this power doesn't come from the Emeralds, you said they were Solaris' innate abbilities... now prove that, else you don't have a point


prove their powers are affected by physiology, more over, prove Solaris' physiology was the cause
Why do I have to prove that, only Solaris actually demonstrated cosmology wiping with the chaos emeralds, no other being did that when amped by them, if anything you need to prove they can.
again, your self admited bias is showing, stop being disingenuous
Can you stop bringing up my “bias”, bro is dredging up things I said like a year ago because he has nothing else to do, like just talk to me normally and we’re all good.
 
you linked Omega, not Gerald

, at one point he makes reference to the timestream being “damaged”, which is almost certainly referring to the erasure, meaning he knows about it.
And is that the context is only about Time Paradoxes and nothing about said erasure, contrary to what you said before

Even though Ian said stuff like only Colors DS being canon out of the handhelds, pretty sure there was a thread here about removing Gens 3DS canonicity.
which was rejected... again, stop ignoring the point

Why do I have to prove that
"Why do i have to prove my positive claims?" Gee, i wonder, maybe cuz that is just how that works? What? I can't prove a negative, you made the claim, you prove that, that is your burden to prove, not mine

, only Solaris actually demonstrated cosmology wiping with the chaos emeralds, no other being did that when amped by them, if anything you need to prove they can.
and no other being showed Anger Empowerment outside of Chaos, does that mean no one else can do it?

One person doing it is not proof that no one else can, unless of course, you proof that this individual using it is what is causing the power to appear... which of course, you don't have here

Can you stop bringing up my “bias”, bro is dredging up things I said like a year ago because he has nothing else to do, like just talk to me normally and we’re all good.
How can i when you constantly come here to try and dismiss any high end stuff of the series by disingenuously ignoring the context of statements and outright ignoring me when i point that out? If you show a bad argument i will point it out, simple
 
And is that the context is only about Time Paradoxes and nothing about said erasure, contrary to what you said before
And yet you conveniently ignored a scene where Gerald says the timestream itself is damaged later on, wonder why.
which was rejected... again, stop ignoring the point
Have you considered maybe Shadow Gens just retconned this.
"Why do i have to prove my positive claims?" Gee, i wonder, maybe cuz that is just how that works? What? I can't prove a negative, you made the claim, you prove that, that is your burden to prove, not mine
The positive claim is not “only Solaris can do this”, that’s been established as smthn he can do and is the only 100% clear aspect, the burden of proof is saying other characters can do it.
and no other being showed Anger Empowerment outside of Chaos, does that mean no one else can do it?

One person doing it is not proof that no one else can, unless of course, you proof that this individual using it is what is causing the power to appear... which of course, you don't have here
Yes, because only one person actually does the thing with the chaos emeralds that is universally applied to every full power super form just because they use the same power source. Solaris isn’t a super form in the traditional sense either.
How can i when you constantly come here to try and dismiss any high end stuff of the series by disingenuously ignoring the context of statements and outright ignoring me when i point that out? If you show a bad argument i will point it out, simple
Yes, because clearly any disagreement with the five million Sonic buffs you peddle is automatically a bad argument. Idek why I bother talking to you.
 
And yet you conveniently ignored a scene where Gerald says the timestream itself is damaged later on, wonder why.
Oh i didn't, i just showed the statement you were talking about to begin with... the damage one just has nothing to do with anything, as the one after is just saying what the first statement is saying yet again. Nothing to do with erasure as you for some reason keep saying it does

Have you considered maybe Shadow Gens just retconned this.
Shadow Gens does nothing to retcon it at all

The positive claim is not “only Solaris can do this”, that’s been established as smthn he can do and is the only 100% clear aspect, the burden of proof is saying other characters can do it.
No? The burden of proof is you saying "Only he can do it", as that is factually a positive claim of your part, you are affirming Solaris is special and only he can do it, so you must prove that

Yes, because only one person actually does the thing with the chaos emeralds that is universally applied to every full power super form just because they use the same power source. Solaris isn’t a super form in the traditional sense either.
Neither is Perfect Chaos a Super Form, so good in ignoring the point, also i never used Solaris being a Super Form as a point... so cool that he isn't one?

The said source is what is giving him these powers to begin with, as neither Mephiles nor Iblis have shown these capabilities, you are the one who affirmed Solaris could always do it, so you prove it

Yes, because clearly any disagreement with the five million Sonic buffs you peddle is automatically a bad argument. Idek why I bother talking to you.
Factually not what i said, you ignoring context of the statements to always lowball everything? yeah, that's my issue with you, maybe if you didn't tried to ignore the context i would have been more chill... but you always do this
 
This damn notification glitch lol, always haunting me.

Sonic Question Time: If you could guarantee a crossover appearance in the upcoming CrossWorlds title, which character would it be?

I think, aside from NiGHTS, it would be cool to see somebody like DJ Professor K from Jet Set Radio would be an amazing choice (especially since Jet Set Radio is supposed to be getting an upcoming game)
Alis from Phantasy Star and something Burning Rangers, maybe. I would also really like Bayonetta and Vocaloid.

NiGHTS of course, too. I would like to see a Phantasy Star stage but I have no idea what to go for.
 
Oh i didn't, i just showed the statement you were talking about to begin with... the damage one just has nothing to do with anything, as the one after is just saying what the first statement is saying yet again. Nothing to do with erasure as you for some reason keep saying it does
Considering you first meet Gerald after Sunset Heights, a future level, it pretty much shoots the idea of trying to fix only time paradoxes in the foot, there’s no reason that future events would be pivotal moments in fixing time paradoxes in the past.
No? The burden of proof is you saying "Only he can do it", as that is factually a positive claim of your part, you are affirming Solaris is special and only he can do it, so you must prove that
No, the positive claim is saying that every super form can do what Solaris did, crazy how this concept has gotten twisted.
Neither is Perfect Chaos a Super Form, so good in ignoring the point, also i never used Solaris being a Super Form as a point... so cool that he isn't one?

The said source is what is giving him these powers to begin with, as neither Mephiles nor Iblis have shown these capabilities, you are the one who affirmed Solaris could always do it, so you prove it
I, never said that. I said Solaris’ physiology combined with the Emeralds gave him these powers, which considering he is the only one who has ever done this sort of thing with the Emeralds isn’t unreasonable.
Factually not what i said, you ignoring context of the statements to always lowball everything? yeah, that's my issue with you, maybe if you didn't tried to ignore the context i would have been more chill... but you always do this
And you always take the highest end interpretation.
 
Considering you first meet Gerald after Sunset Heights, a future level, it pretty much shoots the idea of trying to fix only time paradoxes in the foot, there’s no reason that future events would be pivotal moments in fixing time paradoxes in the past.
The future is the past of an even far away future, time paradoxes always occur

Besides... Gerald is talking about himself, the past, so... being after Sunset Heights doesn't matter

No, the positive claim is saying that every super form can do what Solaris did, crazy how this concept has gotten twisted.
No, you claimed "only Solaris can do it", so you have to prove, so far, you gave me no reason to believe that it is Solaris exclusve

I, never said that. I said Solaris’ physiology combined with the Emeralds gave him these powers
Which is the positive claim you need to prove, yes

, which considering he is the only one who has ever done this sort of thing with the Emeralds isn’t unreasonable.
absense of evidense isn't evidence, you didn't proved the other couldn't do it, so your point isn't supported and your claim remains umproved

And you always take the highest end interpretation.
Oh yeah, ignore the "ignoring context of the statements to always lowball everything" as being what is had a problem with

Also, not true, but that's besides the point
 
I'm wondering if we'll get any DC stuff in CrossWorlds. It might only be something like Batmobile parts, but it would be cool to see characters and locations.
 
This damn notification glitch lol, always haunting me.

Sonic Question Time: If you could guarantee a crossover appearance in the upcoming CrossWorlds title, which character would it be?

I think, aside from NiGHTS, it would be cool to see somebody like DJ Professor K from Jet Set Radio would be an amazing choice (especially since Jet Set Radio is supposed to be getting an upcoming game)
Everyone from the first Sonic and SEGA All Stars Racing
 
This damn notification glitch lol, always haunting me.

Sonic Question Time: If you could guarantee a crossover appearance in the upcoming CrossWorlds title, which character would it be?

I think, aside from NiGHTS, it would be cool to see somebody like DJ Professor K from Jet Set Radio would be an amazing choice (especially since Jet Set Radio is supposed to be getting an upcoming game)
I want Persona characters in my Sonic car racing game!!
 
again, your self admited bias is showing, stop being disingenuous
I don't really think you should be hurling such accusations against him. Does he make some takes I heavily disagree with? Yeah but it would be disingenuous on your side to dismiss everything he says for being biased just for having lower-end interpretations of the same feats and statements and believing he's then just lowballing. In the end, VS is subjective and we'll never know what's going through a writers head when making statements so we can only really piece things together leading to varying interpretations of the same thing so obviously some people are going to look at the same statements and believe different things. Plus being able to sit through and 100 percent shadow the hedgehog sounds like something only a die hard fan would do lol.
 
This damn notification glitch lol, always haunting me.

Sonic Question Time: If you could guarantee a crossover appearance in the upcoming CrossWorlds title, which character would it be?

I think, aside from NiGHTS, it would be cool to see somebody like DJ Professor K from Jet Set Radio would be an amazing choice (especially since Jet Set Radio is supposed to be getting an upcoming game)
Joker Persona 5. It would be funny.
 
The future is the past of an even far away future, time paradoxes always occur

Besides... Gerald is talking about himself, the past, so... being after Sunset Heights doesn't matter
No, he’s talking about space-time in general, he never makes a distinction about his own space time. Saying it’s about time paradoxes only even though Gerald knows the timestream is damaged doesn’t make sense, in fact part of the hypertimeline evidence is that time travel was used to fix space time after Time Eater’s death, which is just another indication Sonic didn’t restore space time as a whole, but the timeline itself did.
No, you claimed "only Solaris can do it", so you have to prove, so far, you gave me no reason to believe that it is Solaris exclusve


Which is the positive claim you need to prove, yes


absense of evidense isn't evidence, you didn't proved the other couldn't do it, so your point isn't supported and your claim remains umproved
Mate, the state that’s default is that only Solaris can do it, because only Solaris has done it. I don’t need to prove only he can do it, you need to prove everyone else can do it, that’s the positive claim.
 
No, he’s talking about space-time in general, he never makes a distinction about his own space time.
his own space time?

He is talking about Time Paradoxes here, as he says so himself to Shadow to not tell them anything of the future as to not "pollute the time stream", and using "ripples in the water" as the allegory, which is the same as he does here when talking about time "healing itself", he is just saying that the earlier theory he shared in the first link he now confirmed, he never mentioned the

Saying it’s about time paradoxes only even though Gerald knows the timestream is damaged doesn’t make sense
How does one correlate to the other? Yes, he knows time is screwed... that is simply not what he is refering to in the 2 statements linked, he is simply talking about time paradoxes and changing the past, as in, he is talking about his own past being changed via this situation he is in

in fact part of the hypertimeline evidence is that time travel was used to fix space time after Time Eater’s death, which is just another indication Sonic didn’t restore space time as a whole, but the timeline itself did.
Non-Sequitur, nothing more i can say, one literally does not prove the other, nor are they related in any way that would even have a bearing in proving... i legit don't know how that is the conclusion you arrived at

Mate, the state that’s default is that only Solaris can do it, because only Solaris has done it.
No, the default is that this is the Emeralds giving him the power to do it, as he used them to achieve it

More over, i already showed how neither Mephiles or Iblis have anything even close to the power in question, so it obviously came from the emeralds, being Solaris exclussive is not the default assumption

I don’t need to prove only he can do it, you need to prove everyone else can do it, that’s the positive claim.
No it isn't, you are the one who made the positive claim that only he could do it, pretending it is the default assumption won't fool me into thinking it is, you are just wrong here, end of story
 
his own space time?

He is talking about Time Paradoxes here, as he says so himself to Shadow to not tell them anything of the future as to not "pollute the time stream", and using "ripples in the water" as the allegory, which is the same as he does here when talking about time "healing itself", he is just saying that the earlier theory he shared in the first link he now confirmed, he never mentioned the
He doesn’t mention time paradoxes at all in the second clip and just talks about how restoring pivotal moments would cause the rest of the moments in history as a whole to find equilibrium, which is a step beyond just fixing time paradoxes connected to Shadow and referring to the whole timeline.
How does one correlate to the other? Yes, he knows time is screwed... that is simply not what he is refering to in the 2 statements linked, he is simply talking about time paradoxes and changing the past, as in, he is talking about his own past being changed via this situation he is in
Stuff like chaos island doesn’t cause any notable time paradoxes because Shadow never tells anyone about it, so restoring it as a pivotal moment in history is more likely referring to restoring the timestream as a whole by fixing pivotal moments.
Non-Sequitur, nothing more i can say, one literally does not prove the other, nor are they related in any way that would even have a bearing in proving... i legit don't know how that is the conclusion you arrived at
Because if time travel was responsible for fixing all of space time, that just strengthens the point that the timeline self-healed.
No, the default is that this is the Emeralds giving him the power to do it, as he used them to achieve it

More over, i already showed how neither Mephiles or Iblis have anything even close to the power in question, so it obviously came from the emeralds, being Solaris exclussive is not the default assumption


No it isn't, you are the one who made the positive claim that only he could do it, pretending it is the default assumption won't fool me into thinking it is, you are just wrong here, end of story
My point was never that the power didn’t in some way come from the Emeralds, my point was that Solaris is unique from any other being amplified by the Emeralds, and he’s the only one that got the power from them to erase the cosmology and all these disparate elements, and Solaris is not a standard super form to say that everyone else should get it just because Solaris is a super form, so it should be proven everyone else would be able to do the same thing with the Emeralds.
 
He doesn’t mention time paradoxes at all in the second clip

He is talking about Time Paradoxes here, as he says so himself to Shadow to not tell them anything of the future as to not "pollute the time stream", and using "ripples in the water" as the allegory, which is the same as he does here when talking about time "healing itself", he is just saying that the earlier theory he shared in the first link he now confirmed, he never mentioned the
He uses the exact same allegory for both, so he is talking the same for both, else he wouldn't use the exact same phrasing for 2 completely different things

and just talks about how restoring pivotal moments would cause the rest of the moments in history as a whole to find equilibrium
In the context of time paradoxes, yes

, which is a step beyond just fixing time paradoxes connected to Shadow and referring to the whole timeline.
not really, the "equilibrium" is history going more or less in the same events despite the paradoxes caused

Stuff like chaos island doesn’t cause any notable time paradoxes because Shadow never tells anyone about it, so restoring it as a pivotal moment in history is more likely referring to restoring the timestream as a whole by fixing pivotal moments.
You assume Gerald is talking about that in specific because?

Because if time travel was responsible for fixing all of space time, that just strengthens the point that the timeline self-healed.
Again, Non-Sequitur... i legit don't know how one is supposed to prove the other

My point was never that the power didn’t in some way come from the Emeralds, my point was that Solaris is unique from any other being amplified by the Emeralds
You need to prove this

, and he’s the only one that got the power from them to erase the cosmology and all these disparate elements, and Solaris is not a standard super form to say that everyone else should get it just because Solaris is a super form
Never used this argument, so it doesn't matter to me

, so it should be proven everyone else would be able to do the same thing with the Emeralds.
No, you should prove your claim that Solaris is using the Emeralds in the utmost unique way to have abilities no one else has, when you yourself admited the power is coming from the Emeralds themselves
 
Alright well it’s not going anywhere, suffice to say I’m still pretty iffy on super forms getting all of Solaris’ boss form abilities just because he has the chaos emeralds (why don’t super forms have temporal omnipresence then, where is the cutoff), and the idea of Sonic fixing the whole timestream by himself.
 
This damn notification glitch lol, always haunting me.

Sonic Question Time: If you could guarantee a crossover appearance in the upcoming CrossWorlds title, which character would it be?

I think, aside from NiGHTS, it would be cool to see somebody like DJ Professor K from Jet Set Radio would be an amazing choice (especially since Jet Set Radio is supposed to be getting an upcoming game)
I got a few answers depending on the category of character.

Non-Sonic SEGA character: Billy Hatcher (I think he needs another shot in the spotlight)

Non-Main Continuity Sonic character: Perhaps Nicole from Archie (She's fun and works well in the main continuity)

Non-SEGA or Sonic character: Lupin III (He's owned by a SEGA owned company and fits the energy of Sonic well + he has an iconic car base that'd work well in the game)

Guest vehicle appearance: Bumblebee (Transformers has SEGA products and is collabing with Sonic this year, and I think Bee fits the energy of this game well)
 
This damn notification glitch lol, always haunting me.

Sonic Question Time: If you could guarantee a crossover appearance in the upcoming CrossWorlds title, which character would it be?

I think, aside from NiGHTS, it would be cool to see somebody like DJ Professor K from Jet Set Radio would be an amazing choice (especially since Jet Set Radio is supposed to be getting an upcoming game)
Ratchet and Clank. I want my Lombax to finally join the Sonic Cast.
 
Ratchet and Clank. I want my Lombax to finally join the Sonic Cast.
YOOOO Ratchet and Clank in CrossWorlds would be actual fire and actually makes me think about how well Ratchet would work in Sonic's world.
Guest vehicle appearance: Bumblebee (Transformers has SEGA products and is collabing with Sonic this year, and I think Bee fits the energy of this game well)
Ha! Love that!
 
YOOOO Ratchet and Clank in CrossWorlds would be actual fire and actually makes me think about how well Ratchet would work in Sonic's world.

Ha! Love that!
It would be funny, even if it'd be very weird imo. If it does happen, I can imagine it happening via the Dimensionator.

I'm an avid fan of the Big Three of the PS2 Era
 
pretty sure there was a thread here about removing Gens 3DS canonicity.
We left it on hold, because I didn't prepare enough (Theat Op)
Unfortunately, I'm taking English exams and I'll be back at university soon, so it will take a while.

Also, I'm supposed to do a Danganronpa thread first (because I promised to do it before that one)
 
YOOOO Ratchet and Clank in CrossWorlds would be actual fire and actually makes me think about how well Ratchet would work in Sonic's world.

Ha! Love that!
Unironically just have him take place in the same dimension on the other side of the Universe. He’s older, so his adventures took place first (pre-Classic Era).

Then when Ratchet and Clank do Rift Apart, (which canonically has a decades gap between it and the previous title), it acts as a signal/beacon. The Sonic Cast then goes to investigate.

Bing bang boom.

Or you could just have it take place in another dimension and then meet. Because both deal with the multiverse.
 
Would Sonic during Shuffle being called the strongest in the world be contradictory? There's Dark Gaia, but upon it's awakening during Unleashed it was considered "premature" due to not having amassed enough negativity, so it would be even weaker during Shuffle, right?
 
Would Sonic during Shuffle being called the strongest in the world be contradictory? There's Dark Gaia, but upon it's awakening during Unleashed it was considered "premature" due to not having amassed enough negativity, so it would be even weaker during Shuffle, right?
I don't think this statement would apply to Dark Gaia, since It din't exist when this statement as made, right?
 
I do like R&C, I just don't see how thematic it'd be in Crossworlds. Especially since that's more of a Sony thing. I could, however, easily see Megaman being something that could make an appearance.
 
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How do I delete my good for nothing account on here?
SAY IT ISN'T SO! I've grown to like you, Issen, don't tell me you're leaving this place permanently?
Unironically just have him take place in the same dimension on the other side of the Universe. He’s older, so his adventures took place first (pre-Classic Era).
Taking place in the same verse would be jaw-droppingly cool, especially since I have the nostalgia factor from playing the first 5 or so titles (OG, Going Commando, Deadlocked, Up Your Arsenal, and Size Matters iirc). Would make sense considering "alien" companies (Dodon Pa Motors) exists and are pretty successful all things considered.
Then when Ratchet and Clank do Rift Apart, (which canonically has a decades gap between it and the previous title), it acts as a signal/beacon. The Sonic Cast then goes to investigate.
Wait, it CANONICALLY takes place decades after the previous installment? So Ratchey is like... in his late 30s/early 40s?? How the hell did THAT work?
 
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