God (The Shack) Profile Addition

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

The Shack is a Canadian novel written in 2007. You can read more about it here.

There is only one character from that novel worth of making a profile, which is God. So I wont be making a verse page.

Here is the profile for said character:

Oblivion Of The Endless/Papa

vsbattles.fandom.com

TLDR:

• God is unreachable and will alwas be beyond whatever we imagine he might be.
• He is beyond time and all that exists.
• He does not have parts and is "The One".
• He is the ground of all being.
• He is the only "truly real" existence (also stated to be "The Real" in relation to his creation).

You might wonder "Wouldn't this be Tier 0?". At first, I thought it would be too, but I had a little talk with Ultima and he said this, so looks like it'll just be 1-A.

------------------------------
Staff votes:

Agree: @Elizhaa, @ActuallySpaceMan42, @Sir_Ovens

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

agree

 

[BreezeHM]

Looks good

 

[KaramcaS]

I think BDE2 requires more detailed contexts, but I don't know much. It would be nice if a Staff would look here.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

It's a 1-A character so it would have BDE2 by default. Some of the reasonings I added there was just to make it more fancy, but the part that matters is that God does not have parts and is the only truly real existence (also stated to be "The Real").

 

[StrymULTRA]

You might wonder "Wouldn't this be Tier 0?". At first, I thought it would be too, but I had a little talk with Ultima and he said this, so looks like it'll just be 1-A.

So you'd have to transcend also Qualitative Superior beings alongside apophasis, as the latter alone is not enough.

Noted.

 

[Robo432343]

this is tier 0

 

[Elizhaa]

It looks fine.

 

[Livinmeme]

Tier 0 doesn't need to trascend anything, as tier 0 is inherently beyond trascenscion and it exists as his own thing.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Profile seems fine.

 

[ProbNotAFelon]

I haven't read the book but I've seen the movie, and... isn't this character very clearly intended to literally be God from Christianity?
This kind of thing was discussed extensively for another case, so it may be a problem with site standards.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I haven't read the book but I've seen the movie, and... isn't this character very clearly intended to literally be God from Christianity?
This kind of thing was discussed extensively for another case, so it may be a problem with site standards.

The conclusion from that thread seems to be that a profile for those kind of things are fine if their feats/lore are different enough from the actual Scriptures. This is why characters like Aslan and Eru are allowed, despite them being intended (and stated by the author) to be the Christian God. It's the same case here. I mean, in the book, God from the shack literally manifests as a black woman and the Holy Spirit as an asian woman, he listens to funk and also curses at the protagonist, among other stuff. It's no wonder the book was called "heretic" and "false" by several people:

Mars Hill Church pastor Mark Driscoll criticized The Shack, saying that "it misrepresents God"[13] and called William P. Young "a heretic".[14] Evangelical author Chuck Colson wrote a review, called "Stay Out of The Shack", in which he criticizes the attribution of "silly lines" to characters representing the three Persons of the Trinity, and the author's "low view of scripture".[15] R. Albert Mohler Jr. called The Shack "deeply troubling" on his radio show, saying that it "includes undiluted heresy".[16] Apologists author Norman Geisler and William C. Roach published a critique in 2012 detailing their 14 points of theological disagreement with the book (including "unorthodox", "false", "classic heresy", "non-rational", "psychologically helpful ... doctrinally harmful", and "very dangerous").[17]

 

[ProbNotAFelon]

The conclusion from that thread seems to be that a profile for those kind of things are fine if their feats/lore are different enough from the actual Scriptures. This is why characters like Aslan and Eru are allowed, despite them being intended (and stated by the author) to be the Christian God.

I think there’s an important distinction to be made between those examples and the character in The Shack. While Aslan and Eru are representations of God, the connection between them and the Christian God is more abstract and symbolic.
In contrast, in The Shack, the character of God is explicitly called the Christian God within the story. It is true that God in the book appears and behaves differently than in Scripture, but the core concept of the Trinity, with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is maintained. While there are similar themes in Narnia and Lord of the Rings, the connection to the Trinity is more implicit in those works, whereas in The Shack, it's much more explicitly represented (such as the Son literally being called Jesus). The differences, while notable, seem more like stylistic choices rather than a complete departure from the nature of God in Christian teachings.

It's the same case here. I mean, in the book, God from the shack literally manifests as a black woman and the Holy Spirit as an asian woman, he listens to funk and also curses at the protagonist, among other stuff. It's no wonder the book was called "heretic" and "false" by several people:

These differences in the portrayal seem somewhat superficial to me. For example, God manifesting in different forms isn’t inconsistent with scripture; God takes on many different appearances in the Bible. As for God enjoying funk music, it’s worth noting that music, in all its forms, is celebrated as beautiful in many Christian teachings. And while God swearing at someone isn't something one would traditionally expect from Him, God is often quite stern in scripture (for one example, from Matthew 23: "You serpents! You brood of vipers! How will you escape the judgment of Gehenna?").

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

While Aslan and Eru are representations of God, the connection between them and the Christian God is more abstract and symbolic.

"If Aslan represented the immaterial Deity, he would be an allegorical figure. In reality however, he is an invention giving an imaginary answer to the question, "What might Christ become like if there really were a world like Narnia and He chose to be incarnate and die and rise again in that world as He actually has done in ours?" This is not allegory at all."

 

[ProbNotAFelon]

My bad, I worded that poorly. My point was that Aslan in Narnia has more clear, obvious differences from the scriptural Jesus (namely, he is a lion), and he is never directly referred to as Jesus or the Son of God within the story. In The Shack, there is a middle eastern-looking carpenter named Jesus who walks on water and is referred to as the Son of God.

 

[Livinmeme]

I genuinely don't know why this is a concern, ******* xenosaga of all things had jesus as a character

 

[DaReaperMan]

Jesus (American Gods)

Shadow's conversation with Jesus Jesus is the primary figure of Christianity and the most worshiped deity in America. He is a kind, emphatic and loving figure, who died for humanity's sins and was resurrected in the day of Ostara's spring festival, which would later be appropriated by Christians...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I think I've said enough on if this is close enough to God to be gone.

The profile has good references and scans, so it passes the test, good work.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Jesus (American Gods)

Shadow's conversation with Jesus Jesus is the primary figure of Christianity and the most worshiped deity in America. He is a kind, emphatic and loving figure, who died for humanity's sins and was resurrected in the day of Ostara's spring festival, which would later be appropriated by Christians...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I think I've said enough on if this is close enough to God to be gone.

The profile has good references and scans, so it passes the test, good work.

Ok to be fair, the primary difference there is that American Gods Jesus cannot be THE Jesus simply based on how the verse works. The belief of Americans create the American Gods, and there are in fact dozens of "Jesus Christs" in the show as they are manifestations of the many sects of Christianity. So you can't really equate one to the other.

The bottom line is that depictions of God that are 1:1 aren't allowed on the wiki. If it deviates in any way from gospel then it's free game. God in name, in concept, in theory, in aspect, are all allowed on the wiki.

That being said, I personally cannot judge the book's depiction of God or its applicability as a profile on the wiki cause I haven't read it. But I have no qualms with the profile itself, objectively speaking.

 

[Ebihara]

This feels different enough to me.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Oblivion requested that I close this thread on the grounds it has enough staff votes. So, closing.