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Does SSG scale to SS4 Vegito now?
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Dragon Ball Daima Spoiler Discussion Thread
- Thread starter StarShooter80
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Ruphas_Mafahl123
He/Him- 6,331
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We dont know the multipliers yet. Altho, its pretty obvious Daima now is part of the main storyline
Ruphas_Mafahl123
He/Him- 6,331
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We don't know how strong is SSJ4 compared to SSG, if SS4 re-appears in DBS, Toyotaro and Toei will invent some shit like SSJ4 being comparable to Blue or even stronger.
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Spinoirr
He/Him- 17,732
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Here is all the difference between Cannon Daima and my FCOC AU version
Now to find a way to write about the difference for their summary for their Daima profiles to fit the new rules of FCOC...
Here is all of the difference between Dragon Ball RWBY'S Daima vs cannon
Like Ruby goes the demon realm alongside Shin frist BC she beat Majin Buu
Ruby makes sure their ship isn't destroyed or saves it from crashing thus they arrive to their locations faster
Vegeta, Piccolo, Penny, Bann all head to the demon realm once they're picked up
Ruby fights Tamagami 3 and wins using Kaio-ken x100, gets the Dragon Ball
Ruby shrinks down the Dragon Ball with magic and puts it in her pouch (Dragon Ball is never temporary stolen)
Knowing of Majin Buu's revival, Dr. Arinsu followed Babidi and the Supreme Demon King Dabura to Remnant in Universe 7. After Vegeta's failed self-destructing sacrifice to destroy Majin Buu, Dr. Arinsu claimed a fragment of Majin Buu before he could reform and took some locks of Ruby's hair after noticing she was unconscious after Vegeta had knocked her out to fight Majin Buu alone. Sometime later, Dr. Arinsu gave the fragment and Ruby's hair to Marba, Majin Buu's true creator, to create another Majin for her to help her become the new Supreme Demon King. Marba would then begin the process of creating a new Majin
Majin Kuu and Majin Duu are Majin's created by Marba using a Saibaman seed alongside some of Ruby Rose's hair infused with the essence of Majin Buu and other factors. This not only caused them to have silver eyes, thus Preservation Energy but also make them stronger then cannon. She only took Ruby's DNA because of her Preservation Energy, something she could actually somewhat sense from Ruby and given how calm Preservation Energy is in her mind it'd make controlling a Majin much easier and she was right
Majin Kuu fights Tamagami number 1, and was evenly matched with him but gave up after a while seeing that as the much smarter opinion after seeing the Tamagami power up even further
Shin explains his kind come from five Glind Trees but they have since died out. When Penny points out that it means that his race will one day become extinct, Shin confirms it. Both Ruby and Penny look at one another thinks to use their magic to restore the five Glind Trees using Afteran Magic
Vegeta claims that he will be the one fighting Tamagami Number Two, much to Bann's frustration. However Penny says she'll fight Tamagami Number Two, upsetting Vegeta but he agrees much to his displeasure when Penny threatens to not fix the gravity room she built for him
Penny fights Tamagami Number Two using her Winter Maiden Powers and kept up a good fight until Neva provides his creation with some additional power. With the Tamagami's power having grown significantly, forcing Penny to go Ultimate, she beats Tamagami Number Two and passes the trick question test
Ruby reveals that Penny unlocked her potential after the events of the Buu Saga and Weiss, Blake, Yang, Nora, Ren, Jaune also had their potential unlocked. Ruby convinced Elder Kai to do this not just because she saved the universe against Majin Buu but also threatening to turn him into a cloud of molecules again with her Semblance
Majin Duu is made, again with Ruby's DNA making him stronger then cannon
On planet Mega, Penny and Panzy finish repairs on the plane while Ruby choses to solve the problem of the Megath child and their dog by growing to the size of an adult Megath with magic after going Ultimate to tell the kid off to buy time for the ship to get fixed and it actually worked
Upon arriving at the Sir Warp they find that it is not operational. Neva realises that Gomah must have issued the order for the Sir Warp to be shut down due to seeing them heading to the first Demon world so fast, so with no other choice Ruby and Penny uses their Magic to remove the barrier surrounding the Demon Realm Tunnel, Impressed by their abilities, Neva tells Penny and Ruby (Who whenever they use Ultimate use their magic to make themselves Adults again) that their magic seems to ignore universal laws and let's them do whatever they think they can do, a very powerful and versatile ability and he is glad that they're using the power with pure intent as manipulating reality like that is a selfish power and selfish actions lead to doom. Neva then says he was the one who conjured up the barrier originally and explains why
Third Demon realm differences:
Ruby and Penny stop holding back and go Ultimate and turn into adults again via their Afteran Magic and power Nullify all the attacks the Gendamerie soldiers use on them so they can't he paralyzed at all and solo them all before the Kadan Force arrived to help
Bann, Ruby, Penny, Vegeta, Piccolo and Shin head inside the palace while the others wait outside and like normal Panzy has a curious feeling and later enters the castle as well
Bann and Vegeta play play rock, paper, scissors to decide it as both Bann and Vegeta haven't fought yet and Bann wins and fights Majin Kuu and makes Bann go Super Saiyan 2 against him but the fight is interrupted like normal
Vegeta attacks Evil Third Eye Gomah like normal. Bann suggests they all attack together as he is joined by Piccolo, Ruby, Penny, Shin and Glorio. Even working together, the group find no leeway
Ruby doesn't drops the pouch containing the Medi Bugs during all the commotion unlike Goku as the Medi Bugs are in her pouch on her belt
Majin Kuu, Duu join in without anyone telling them to do so to help and Tamagami number 1 joins in to help too via Neva telling him to like normal
Ruby chooses to use Kaio-ken x 100 and Penny choses to use her Winter Maiden powers after they noticed Gomah adapts to their power
Neva unlocks ssj4 for Bann as Bann himself explained at the end of the arc "Hiding? You mean super saiyan 4? Nah, I had a general idea to mix Great Ape with Super Saiyan, but didn't know how to, guess all I needed was a little push hehe" (The little push being Neva's Magic unlocking his potential), however it looks like GT's ssj4 just with enlarged forearms
After some time passes, the other fighters join in (Unlike normal Vegeta joins in after getting healed by Penny's Afteran Magic), having got a second wind, join back in on the fight and Vegeta goes Super Saiyan 3 to help fight
Gomah becomes stronger then ssj4 Kid Goku like normal via the Evil Third Eye's RPL and like normal Glorio wished for everyone to be returned back to their normal ages
Vegeta fights Gomah like normal alone, and after Bann suggests to fight instead Vegeta, refuses and continues to battle alone but Ruby steps forward and tells Vegeta to let someone else take over or she will never spar with him again. Vegeta immediately pulls out of the fight because of Ruby's threat
Ssj4 Adult Bann vs Gomah goes the same as normal, Gomah regenerates and is too powerful so Penny and Ruby go Ultimate to join ssj4 Bann against Gomah, fighting on par with SSJ4 Bann however even this isn't enough as Gomah adapts to their power again forcing Ruby to use the fusion bugs with Penny to fuse into Rubenny and in base one shot a hole through Gomah's stomach pushing him up into the hole in the first Demon realm caused by Bann's Kamehameha and then Rubenny goes Ultimate, charing up a Rose Kamehameha Cannon while Gomah is regenerating and fires it at Gomah and using her Afteran Magic's Subjective Reality to nullify any Reactive Power Level or Reactive Evolution BS to completely vaporize him and kill him
After he's dead by Rubenny, she defenses willingly by using their Afteran Magic to defuse themselves
After the fights over there's a debate on whether or not Ruby or Penny should become the new Demon Queen because their fusion killed Gomah, but they want to leave back to Remnant so Ruby brings up a good point, it's because of Majin Duu and Arinsu who are residents of the Demon realm who did help fight Gomah and help them win so Ruby suggests Majin Duu become the new Demon King, Ruby and Penny even makes sure to fight Majin Duu and pretend to lose to him to make it official too (lol) and so Majin Duu becomes the Supreme Demon King with Dr. Arinsu as his Vice Supreme Demon King and Glorio, Neva, Marba, Kadan, and Majin Duu as his Ministers.
Meanwhile Degesu is sealed away for 99 years
Ruby and Penny visit the second demon realm before heading to the third one to restore all the Glind Trees using Afteran Magic and then visit that shop with the medi bugs and find out Evil Third Eye but two more are revealed to exist in a shop in the third Demon Realm
Vegeta basically asks Penny or Ruby to use their Afteran Magic to give him ssj4 so he can be on a equal playing field with Bann and them so sparing against them they won't need to hold back. So they do it and Vegeta gains ssj4
Like Ruby goes the demon realm alongside Shin frist BC she beat Majin Buu
Ruby makes sure their ship isn't destroyed or saves it from crashing thus they arrive to their locations faster
Vegeta, Piccolo, Penny, Bann all head to the demon realm once they're picked up
Ruby fights Tamagami 3 and wins using Kaio-ken x100, gets the Dragon Ball
Ruby shrinks down the Dragon Ball with magic and puts it in her pouch (Dragon Ball is never temporary stolen)
Knowing of Majin Buu's revival, Dr. Arinsu followed Babidi and the Supreme Demon King Dabura to Remnant in Universe 7. After Vegeta's failed self-destructing sacrifice to destroy Majin Buu, Dr. Arinsu claimed a fragment of Majin Buu before he could reform and took some locks of Ruby's hair after noticing she was unconscious after Vegeta had knocked her out to fight Majin Buu alone. Sometime later, Dr. Arinsu gave the fragment and Ruby's hair to Marba, Majin Buu's true creator, to create another Majin for her to help her become the new Supreme Demon King. Marba would then begin the process of creating a new Majin
Majin Kuu and Majin Duu are Majin's created by Marba using a Saibaman seed alongside some of Ruby Rose's hair infused with the essence of Majin Buu and other factors. This not only caused them to have silver eyes, thus Preservation Energy but also make them stronger then cannon. She only took Ruby's DNA because of her Preservation Energy, something she could actually somewhat sense from Ruby and given how calm Preservation Energy is in her mind it'd make controlling a Majin much easier and she was right
Majin Kuu fights Tamagami number 1, and was evenly matched with him but gave up after a while seeing that as the much smarter opinion after seeing the Tamagami power up even further
Shin explains his kind come from five Glind Trees but they have since died out. When Penny points out that it means that his race will one day become extinct, Shin confirms it. Both Ruby and Penny look at one another thinks to use their magic to restore the five Glind Trees using Afteran Magic
Vegeta claims that he will be the one fighting Tamagami Number Two, much to Bann's frustration. However Penny says she'll fight Tamagami Number Two, upsetting Vegeta but he agrees much to his displeasure when Penny threatens to not fix the gravity room she built for him
Penny fights Tamagami Number Two using her Winter Maiden Powers and kept up a good fight until Neva provides his creation with some additional power. With the Tamagami's power having grown significantly, forcing Penny to go Ultimate, she beats Tamagami Number Two and passes the trick question test
Ruby reveals that Penny unlocked her potential after the events of the Buu Saga and Weiss, Blake, Yang, Nora, Ren, Jaune also had their potential unlocked. Ruby convinced Elder Kai to do this not just because she saved the universe against Majin Buu but also threatening to turn him into a cloud of molecules again with her Semblance
Majin Duu is made, again with Ruby's DNA making him stronger then cannon
On planet Mega, Penny and Panzy finish repairs on the plane while Ruby choses to solve the problem of the Megath child and their dog by growing to the size of an adult Megath with magic after going Ultimate to tell the kid off to buy time for the ship to get fixed and it actually worked
Upon arriving at the Sir Warp they find that it is not operational. Neva realises that Gomah must have issued the order for the Sir Warp to be shut down due to seeing them heading to the first Demon world so fast, so with no other choice Ruby and Penny uses their Magic to remove the barrier surrounding the Demon Realm Tunnel, Impressed by their abilities, Neva tells Penny and Ruby (Who whenever they use Ultimate use their magic to make themselves Adults again) that their magic seems to ignore universal laws and let's them do whatever they think they can do, a very powerful and versatile ability and he is glad that they're using the power with pure intent as manipulating reality like that is a selfish power and selfish actions lead to doom. Neva then says he was the one who conjured up the barrier originally and explains why
Third Demon realm differences:
Ruby and Penny stop holding back and go Ultimate and turn into adults again via their Afteran Magic and power Nullify all the attacks the Gendamerie soldiers use on them so they can't he paralyzed at all and solo them all before the Kadan Force arrived to help
Bann, Ruby, Penny, Vegeta, Piccolo and Shin head inside the palace while the others wait outside and like normal Panzy has a curious feeling and later enters the castle as well
Bann and Vegeta play play rock, paper, scissors to decide it as both Bann and Vegeta haven't fought yet and Bann wins and fights Majin Kuu and makes Bann go Super Saiyan 2 against him but the fight is interrupted like normal
Vegeta attacks Evil Third Eye Gomah like normal. Bann suggests they all attack together as he is joined by Piccolo, Ruby, Penny, Shin and Glorio. Even working together, the group find no leeway
Ruby doesn't drops the pouch containing the Medi Bugs during all the commotion unlike Goku as the Medi Bugs are in her pouch on her belt
Majin Kuu, Duu join in without anyone telling them to do so to help and Tamagami number 1 joins in to help too via Neva telling him to like normal
Ruby chooses to use Kaio-ken x 100 and Penny choses to use her Winter Maiden powers after they noticed Gomah adapts to their power
Neva unlocks ssj4 for Bann as Bann himself explained at the end of the arc "Hiding? You mean super saiyan 4? Nah, I had a general idea to mix Great Ape with Super Saiyan, but didn't know how to, guess all I needed was a little push hehe" (The little push being Neva's Magic unlocking his potential), however it looks like GT's ssj4 just with enlarged forearms
After some time passes, the other fighters join in (Unlike normal Vegeta joins in after getting healed by Penny's Afteran Magic), having got a second wind, join back in on the fight and Vegeta goes Super Saiyan 3 to help fight
Gomah becomes stronger then ssj4 Kid Goku like normal via the Evil Third Eye's RPL and like normal Glorio wished for everyone to be returned back to their normal ages
Vegeta fights Gomah like normal alone, and after Bann suggests to fight instead Vegeta, refuses and continues to battle alone but Ruby steps forward and tells Vegeta to let someone else take over or she will never spar with him again. Vegeta immediately pulls out of the fight because of Ruby's threat
Ssj4 Adult Bann vs Gomah goes the same as normal, Gomah regenerates and is too powerful so Penny and Ruby go Ultimate to join ssj4 Bann against Gomah, fighting on par with SSJ4 Bann however even this isn't enough as Gomah adapts to their power again forcing Ruby to use the fusion bugs with Penny to fuse into Rubenny and in base one shot a hole through Gomah's stomach pushing him up into the hole in the first Demon realm caused by Bann's Kamehameha and then Rubenny goes Ultimate, charing up a Rose Kamehameha Cannon while Gomah is regenerating and fires it at Gomah and using her Afteran Magic's Subjective Reality to nullify any Reactive Power Level or Reactive Evolution BS to completely vaporize him and kill him
After he's dead by Rubenny, she defenses willingly by using their Afteran Magic to defuse themselves
After the fights over there's a debate on whether or not Ruby or Penny should become the new Demon Queen because their fusion killed Gomah, but they want to leave back to Remnant so Ruby brings up a good point, it's because of Majin Duu and Arinsu who are residents of the Demon realm who did help fight Gomah and help them win so Ruby suggests Majin Duu become the new Demon King, Ruby and Penny even makes sure to fight Majin Duu and pretend to lose to him to make it official too (lol) and so Majin Duu becomes the Supreme Demon King with Dr. Arinsu as his Vice Supreme Demon King and Glorio, Neva, Marba, Kadan, and Majin Duu as his Ministers.
Meanwhile Degesu is sealed away for 99 years
Ruby and Penny visit the second demon realm before heading to the third one to restore all the Glind Trees using Afteran Magic and then visit that shop with the medi bugs and find out Evil Third Eye but two more are revealed to exist in a shop in the third Demon Realm
Vegeta basically asks Penny or Ruby to use their Afteran Magic to give him ssj4 so he can be on a equal playing field with Bann and them so sparing against them they won't need to hold back. So they do it and Vegeta gains ssj4
Now to find a way to write about the difference for their summary for their Daima profiles to fit the new rules of FCOC...
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Let’s assume daima is canon, and God would be stronger then all of gokus previous forms, and max vegito. This includes 4. So daimas 4 cannot be god level.
Ruphas_Mafahl123
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We see DBS Gods appearing. I get it, you are one of the few who thinks Daima is still canon cuz it's made by Toriyama but is a separate Timeline?. Seems like a valid reasoning given the contradictions, but most of the fanbase do actually think its part of the main canon. Retcons are like that, those are author choices and they arent supposed to always make sense, who we are to question their decision?
Ruphas_Mafahl123
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And again, if it re-appears in Daima, we dont know how is Toyotaro and co going to handle it, they can pretty much make SS4 as strong as God forms and call it day.
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I also think it's impossible to refute Daima being canon, especially with DB having several contradictions and retcons.
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its beyond just not making sense its straight up stupid, its revealed that goku always had ssj4 even before daima started, if thats true then why the hell did he not use this agaisnt beerus when they first fought? like atp daima seems to be canon just not apart of the dbs anime or manga
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like if were seriously just gonna ignore such an insane plot hole then whatever i guess lmao you do you
Ruphas_Mafahl123
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Exactly, people seem like they dont know how Dragon Ball works or how Toriyama tends to be sooooo forgetful
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You can think that, but you’d still be incorrect. Unless a second season eventually clears things up, it’s pretty incongruent
Ruphas_Mafahl123
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Its Dragon ball, things do not make sense. And its Toriyama we are talking about, the king of retcons
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Well until it's retconned I feel like the BoG fusion statement is the closest thing to a strength comparison between the forms. We're already scaling to hypothetical SS3 Vegito so I don't think hypothetical SS4 is that different besides funky continuity. (Adult SS4 is definitely getting a higher DP than SSG in Sparking Zero though.)
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yea because toryiama totally forgot about super saiyan god and super saiyan blue and the rest of super for some reason lmao
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this just sounds like cope and mental gymnastics to me
Ruphas_Mafahl123
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Author is not obligated to appeal the fans by making sense, it's their own work and series. Also, Toriyama when writing Daima was senile and old enough to the verge of death, literally. Can't blame him.
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Dude, there are quotes from the Akio Iyoku stating that Dragon Ball Daima makes connections with everything, even about the Kaioshins, the demons, the namekuseijin and the multiverse itself, in addition it is written right at the beginning of the episode for everyone to see "ORIGINAL WORK", about these contradictions are mere retcon that Dragon Ball it won.
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The king of "Author forgot"
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Assuming they are canon to one another, It’s tough to tell. we can’t trust that what Goku said/does in relation to forms in BoG actually happened exactly as we’ve seen, but I guess God ends up being above ssj4 vegito tentatively? But Ssj4 doesn’t exactly seem similar enough to the lower forms that we can logic out that a fusion should be capable of it like they are with 3. Especially because we just don’t have information. Not sure
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Your reasoning is incorrect and does not match the work.
Nullflowerblush
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Which makes zero sense because Super already established the number of timelines within its continuity.
Ruphas_Mafahl123
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Like, random fans think they know more about the stuff than the Author and Toei itself lol
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that's funny because toryiama literally wasn't the only person writing daima. also its not about appealing to the fans its about keeping up at least a semblance of consistency and continuity lmao, if as a writer you don't even want to do that then you're not a good writer
Ruphas_Mafahl123
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I mean, nor that he ever was a good one to begin with, he was criticized a lot by reasons like this.
Ruphas_Mafahl123
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I agree with you, but tell that to the people that keep being in denial
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The guys wanting to play creator for DB, that's a funny thing to see, lol
Ruphas_Mafahl123
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Its like, they say "Daima is not canon" appealing to authority lol. As if they owned Toei or Sueisha
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If daima isn’t the same timeline as super, then I’d have it as outside supers scope entirely like heroes or something for this reason
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hoops and bounds to somehow connect daima to dbs bro 
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Like they would care about continuity, they just want the money that come from Dragon Ball's name
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Friend, it is said by Akira Toriyama himself that he forgets the things he himself does, he himself Akio Iyoku said he did literally everything, if there is any contradiction it was because he forgot something and generated a retcon in DBS
Ruphas_Mafahl123
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Yeah, one of the ramifications of the present timeline. Altho, it wouldn't surprise me, as the number of timelines in DB is infinite, so it would make sense.
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