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Which problem?
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Ben 10: Tier 4 Upgrade
- Thread starter Hellformer
- Start date
- Status
GeneralSol16
He/Him- 1,736
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We've been discussing the Way Big scaling for 2 pages by now, and it may be a discussion topic in the future for calc stacking.
Just upscaling everyone could be a good "at least", as well as working as a second alternative to the staff members. If u can convince them of the scaling calc, nice, but if there's an alternative solution that can solve this at sole point, it'd be mentioned.
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It's not calc stalking when done through statements within the franchise. Calculating is use of results of one calced feat to find the another, like luffy speed if calc'd to be hypersonic at one instance, we can't use the value of that calcs directly to calculate feat of some other entirely different instance of him. But of luffy speed stated to be light speed, we can use it anywhere. Same as all values are already given here within the franchise. This method is present and accepted on ben 10 page already.
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Here's a simplified version of the Formula Method.
Calc Stacking
Calc stacking refers to the practice of using results from one calculation in order to calculate other feats. Usually calc stacking is believed to be flawed, so that calculations that use it should be disregarded almost always. Usually people try to use it for calculating characters speed, but...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Examples of calc-stacking that can not be applied:
Character A moved so fast that character B couldn't react to him. So character A needs to have crossed the distance until he could be seen by character B again in the time that character B requires to react. Since we know from a calculation how long character B needs to react we can calculate the speed of character A based on that.
Character A has a certain speed through a calculation. He can not dodge the projectiles from character B from 2 meter distance. But Character C can dodge them from 1 meter distance, so character C has to be twice as fast as character A.
Character A has a certain attack potency through a calculation. They made a 1mm dent in character B's shield composed of a fictional material. But character C destroyed the whole 30mm thick shield, so character C is thirty times as strong as character A.
Based on the examples, I don't think it counts as calc stacking.
Here's what I'm seeing so far regarding the formula method.
- Where X = Average UA Alien AP
- Ultimate Aggregor = Y = 9.47508618e56 Joules, or 9.475 TeraFOE (4-B)
- Ultimate Aggregor = Aggregor + 5 Andromeda Aliens + Portal Energy
- Aggregor absorbed Portal Energy for a reason. It's not simply 6X.
- 22 Omnitrix Aliens
- Humungousaur
- Bigchill
- Goop
- Chromastone
- Spidermonkey
- Swampfire
- Brainstorm
- Echo echo
- Jetray
- Canonbolt
- Diamondhead
- Upchuck
- Fourarms
- Ripjaws
- Ghostfreak
- Waterhazard
- NRG
- Ampfibian
- Armodrillo
- Terraspin
- Lodestar
- Rath
Conservative Scaling Chain
- Ultimate Kevin Pre Aggregor = Base Kevin + 1/10 of (22 Omnitrix Aliens + Ultimate Humungousaur + 5 other Ultimate Aliens + Way Big) = Ultimate Aggregor
- Ultimate Kevin Pre Aggregor = X + 1/10 of (22X + 10X + 5X + W) = 9.47508618e56 Joules
- Kevin gains 10% of what he absorbed.
- Ultimate Kevin Post Aggregor = Base Kevin + 1/10 of (22 Omnitrix Aliens + Ultimate Humungousaur + 5 other Ultimate Aliens + Way Big + Ultimate Aggregor + Alan)
- Ultimate Kevin Post Aggregor = X + 1/10 of (22X + 10X + 5X + W + Y)
- Ultimate Humungousaur = Ultimate Kevin Post Aggregor = 10x Base Humungousaur
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X + 1/10 of (22X + 10X + 5X + W)=YHere's what I'm seeing so far regarding the formula method.
- Where X = Average Alien AP
- Ultimate Aggregor = Y = 9.47508618e56 Joules, or 9.475 TeraFOE (4-B)
Entropy Pump calc
- Ultimate Aggregor = Aggregor + 5 Andromeda Aliens + Portal Energy
- Aggregor absorbed Portal Energy for a reason. It's not simply 6X.
Conservative Scaling Chain 1
- Ultimate Kevin Pre Aggregor = Base Kevin + 1/10 of (22 Omnitrix Aliens + Ultimate Humungousaur + 5 other Ultimate Aliens + Way Big) = Ultimate Aggregor
- Ultimate Kevin Pre Aggregor = X + 1/10 of (22X + 10X + 5X + W) = 9.47508618e56 Joules
- Ultimate Kevin Post Aggregor = Base Kevin + 1/10 of (22 Omnitrix Aliens + Ultimate Humungousaur + 5 other Ultimate Aliens + Way Big + Ultimate Aggregor + Alan)
- Ultimate Kevin Post Aggregor = X + 1/10 of (22X + 10X + 5X + W + Y)
- Do we have an "at least" value to apply for Way Big?
- Ultimate Humungousaur = Ultimate Kevin Post Aggregor = 10x Base Humungousaur = 10X
- 22 Omnitrix Aliens
- Humungousaur
- Bigchill
- Goop
- Chromastone
- Spidermonkey
- Swampfire
- Brainstorm
- Echo echo
- Jetray
- Canonbolt
- Diamondhead
- Upchuck
- Fourarms
- Ripjaws
- Ghostfreak
- Waterhazard
- NRG
- Ampfibian
- Armodrillo
- Terraspin
- Lodestar
- Rath
(47X+W)/10 = Y ...(i)
10X = X+(1/10)(22X + 10X + 5X + W + Y)
Y/10 = 9X - (1/10) (22X + 10X + 5X + W)
Y/10 = (53X−W)/10
Y = 53X-W ...(ii)
Evaluating i and ii we get
53X-W = (47X+W)/10
483X = 11W
W = 483X/11
Putting the value of W wrt X in (i) with Y having value 9.47508618e56, we get
(47X+(483X/11))/10 = 9.47508618e56
11(47X)+483X = 11×(9.47508618×10⁵⁷)
517X+483X = 1.04225948×10⁵⁹
X = 1.04225948×10⁵⁶ joules.
W= 4.5764666258×10⁵⁷ Joules.
GeneralSol16
He/Him- 1,736
- 781
Actually, he just absorbed the energy so he could attack Alien Force, he didn't absorb the energy of the machine, he just absorbed the aliens.
So, what would be the results of all of these? So it can be better understood.
GeneralSol16
He/Him- 1,736
- 781
Could u summarize every value for all of Ben's aliens? So this can be mobilized
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Y = X + (37X+W)/10
10X = X+(1/10)(22X + 10X + 5X + W + Y) => 10X = X+(1/10)(22X + 10X + 5X + W + (X + (37x+W)/10))
W = 483x/11
Y = 9.47508618e56 Joules = X + (37X+(483X/11))/10
X = 1.04226e56 Joules
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Yes further evaluation will lead to:
Y = (10X+37X+W)/10 = (47X+W)/10
Hellformer
He/Him- 2,632
- 2,359
- Thread starter
- #210
Your idea? nope
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Dagon > Ult Way Big > Way Big > Eatle = Lucubra Vilgax = Ascalon > or = Ult Humungousaur = Ultimate Kevin Post Aggregor > Ultimate Aggregor = 4-B
Do you mean this?
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Hellformer
He/Him- 2,632
- 2,359
- Thread starter
- #212
So do you agree with it now?
I mean can I count your vote as "agree"?
(For the chain scale that you made)
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Dagon > Ult Way Big > Atomix? > Way Big > Eatle = Lucubra Vilgax = Ascalon > or = Ult Humungousaur = Ultimate Kevin Post Aggregor > Ultimate Aggregor = 4-B Calc
The above scale seems fine.
The exact energy values are still being verified.
@DarkDragonMedeus
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GeneralSol16
He/Him- 1,736
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U forgot Atomix.
Ult Way Big >/= (it's unknowkm) Atomix > Way Big > Eatle / Lucubrax / Ascalon George =/> Ult Hsaur
I was actually referring to the exact energy values, but He'll former already helped with that..
Okey then, let's see what happens next
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Hellformer
He/Him- 2,632
- 2,359
- Thread starter
- #215
Fine, I'll start making the changes after the energy values are verified by you
Hellformer
He/Him- 2,632
- 2,359
- Thread starter
- #216
There might be some changes
Hellformer
He/Him- 2,632
- 2,359
- Thread starter
- #217
If X=1.04226E+56 J=1.04226 TeraFoe (4-B)
Then 10X=10.4226 TeraFoe (4-B+)
W=45.7621 TeraFoe (4-A)
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So Humungosaur punching the 4-B portal isnt accepted then right? And just Aggregor gets it after absorbing andromeda aliens
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Hellformer
He/Him- 2,632
- 2,359
- Thread starter
- #220
Humungousaur's feat needs another thread in itself
Hellformer
He/Him- 2,632
- 2,359
- Thread starter
- #221
I did the math using pen and paper. The energy values are accurate so please let me know what exactly more do you need for verification (calc staff approval or smth?)
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Calc staff approval so we are following the rules with this thing.
Hellformer
He/Him- 2,632
- 2,359
- Thread starter
- #223
Ah please tag some calc staff for the final approval
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Here's a simplified version of the Formula Method.
Calc Stacking
Calc stacking refers to the practice of using results from one calculation in order to calculate other feats. Usually calc stacking is believed to be flawed, so that calculations that use it should be disregarded almost always. Usually people try to use it for calculating characters speed, but...
Examples of calc-stacking that can not be applied:
Character A moved so fast that character B couldn't react to him. So character A needs to have crossed the distance until he could be seen by character B again in the time that character B requires to react. Since we know from a calculation how long character B needs to react we can calculate the speed of character A based on that.
Character A has a certain speed through a calculation. He can not dodge the projectiles from character B from 2 meter distance. But Character C can dodge them from 1 meter distance, so character C has to be twice as fast as character A.
Character A has a certain attack potency through a calculation. They made a 1mm dent in character B's shield composed of a fictional material. But character C destroyed the whole 30mm thick shield, so character C is thirty times as strong as character A.
Based on the examples, I don't think it counts as calc stacking.
Here's what I'm seeing so far regarding the formula method.
- Where X = Average UA Alien AP
- Ultimate Aggregor = Y = 9.47508618e56 Joules, or 9.475 TeraFOE (4-B)
- Ultimate Aggregor = Aggregor + 5 Andromeda Aliens + Portal Energy
- Aggregor absorbed Portal Energy for a reason. It's not simply 6X.
- 22 Omnitrix Aliens
- Humungousaur
- Bigchill
- Goop
- Chromastone
- Spidermonkey
- Swampfire
- Brainstorm
- Echo echo
- Jetray
- Canonbolt
- Diamondhead
- Upchuck
- Fourarms
- Ripjaws
- Ghostfreak
- Waterhazard
- NRG
- Ampfibian
- Armodrillo
- Terraspin
- Lodestar
- Rath
Conservative Scaling Chain
- Ultimate Kevin Pre Aggregor = Base Kevin + 1/10 of (22 Omnitrix Aliens + Ultimate Humungousaur + 5 other Ultimate Aliens + Way Big) = Ultimate Aggregor
- Ultimate Kevin Pre Aggregor = X + 1/10 of (22X + 10X + 5X + W) = 9.47508618e56 Joules
- Kevin gains 10% of what he absorbed.
- Ultimate Kevin Post Aggregor = Base Kevin + 1/10 of (22 Omnitrix Aliens + Ultimate Humungousaur + 5 other Ultimate Aliens + Way Big + Ultimate Aggregor + Alan)
- Ultimate Kevin Post Aggregor = X + 1/10 of (22X + 10X + 5X + W + Y)
- Ultimate Humungousaur = Ultimate Kevin Post Aggregor = 10x Base Humungousaur = 10X
@Vzearr @Therefir
Can you please confirm that this math is valid for scaling?
Hellformer
He/Him- 2,632
- 2,359
- Thread starter
- #225
Where exactly is it stated that he absorbed portal energy as well?
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@Damage3245 @TheRustyOne @Armorchompy @Migue79 @Psychomaster35 @CloverDragon03 @Dark-Carioca @Dalesean027I don't remember it being forbidden, but you should probably ask some calc group members to make certain.
Are any of you willing to help out here please? Medeus, I, and Firestorm are uncertsin regarding our rules for this.
Hellformer
He/Him- 2,632
- 2,359
- Thread starter
- #228
I think firestorm made it clear that it ain't calc stacking and derived certain energy values. All he has to do is approve it from some calc staffs to conclude this thread in a crystal clear manner.@Damage3245 @TheRustyOne @Armorchompy @Migue79 @Psychomaster35 @CloverDragon03 @Dark-Carioca @Dalesean027
Are any of you willing to help out here please? Medeus, I, and Firestorm are uncertsin regarding our rules for this.
Here's a simplified version of the Formula Method.
Calc Stacking
Calc stacking refers to the practice of using results from one calculation in order to calculate other feats. Usually calc stacking is believed to be flawed, so that calculations that use it should be disregarded almost always. Usually people try to use it for calculating characters speed, but...
Examples of calc-stacking that can not be applied:
Character A moved so fast that character B couldn't react to him. So character A needs to have crossed the distance until he could be seen by character B again in the time that character B requires to react. Since we know from a calculation how long character B needs to react we can calculate the speed of character A based on that.
Character A has a certain speed through a calculation. He can not dodge the projectiles from character B from 2 meter distance. But Character C can dodge them from 1 meter distance, so character C has to be twice as fast as character A.
Character A has a certain attack potency through a calculation. They made a 1mm dent in character B's shield composed of a fictional material. But character C destroyed the whole 30mm thick shield, so character C is thirty times as strong as character A.
Based on the examples, I don't think it counts as calc stacking.
Here's what I'm seeing so far regarding the formula method.
- Where X = Average UA Alien AP
- Ultimate Aggregor = Y = 9.47508618e56 Joules, or 9.475 TeraFOE (4-B)
- Ultimate Aggregor = Aggregor + 5 Andromeda Aliens + Portal Energy
- Aggregor absorbed Portal Energy for a reason. It's not simply 6X.
- 22 Omnitrix Aliens
- Humungousaur
- Bigchill
- Goop
- Chromastone
- Spidermonkey
- Swampfire
- Brainstorm
- Echo echo
- Jetray
- Canonbolt
- Diamondhead
- Upchuck
- Fourarms
- Ripjaws
- Ghostfreak
- Waterhazard
- NRG
- Ampfibian
- Armodrillo
- Terraspin
- Lodestar
- Rath
Conservative Scaling Chain
- Ultimate Kevin Pre Aggregor = Base Kevin + 1/10 of (22 Omnitrix Aliens + Ultimate Humungousaur + 5 other Ultimate Aliens + Way Big) = Ultimate Aggregor
- Ultimate Kevin Pre Aggregor = X + 1/10 of (22X + 10X + 5X + W) = 9.47508618e56 Joules
- Kevin gains 10% of what he absorbed.
- Ultimate Kevin Post Aggregor = Base Kevin + 1/10 of (22 Omnitrix Aliens + Ultimate Humungousaur + 5 other Ultimate Aliens + Way Big + Ultimate Aggregor + Alan)
- Ultimate Kevin Post Aggregor = X + 1/10 of (22X + 10X + 5X + W + Y)
- Ultimate Humungousaur = Ultimate Kevin Post Aggregor = 10x Base Humungousaur
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He use the portal to absorb energy and matter of Aliens
GeneralSol16
He/Him- 1,736
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Being fair, he used that energy to blast Kevin (apparently).
And his statement of being able to tank the destruction caused by the machine was before that moment, so the feat relates directly to the 5 aliens.
And him absorbing the energy wasn't take that serious at all, he just starting to absorb the aliens was shown to be more "powerful" or important than the machine's energy itself.
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Per Dwayne McDuffie, the staff can also be used as a ranged weapon to fire blasts of red energy that come from itself and not Aggregor.
GeneralSol16
He/Him- 1,736
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Maybe, but the other points are maintained.
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Why is this relevant? The bottom line is that Ultimate Aggregor scales to the explosion.
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Now that I think about it, Aggregor bypassed the 10% aspect by absorbing the aliens in their entirety.
This was then passed into Kevin. Shouldn't this also bypass the 10% aspect.
I'll revise the formulas in a bit.
This was then passed into Kevin. Shouldn't this also bypass the 10% aspect.
I'll revise the formulas in a bit.
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Aggregor used Entropy pump for that unlike Kevin.
Hellformer
He/Him- 2,632
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- #238
Bump
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@Migue79 @AbaddonTheDisappointment @Aguywhodoesthings @DemiiPowa @SeijiSetto @SunDaGamer
We seem to need some help here.
Hellformer
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Bump
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