[MCU] Death/Wiccan revision

[LMalone22]

Not really seeing nigh omnipresence with that clip alone, the rest looks fine

So I'll add another clip of her appearance after Agatha child is stillborn

 

[LMalone22]

Not really seeing nigh omnipresence with that clip alone, the rest looks fine

I have already added the clip

 

[Theglassman12]

that’s not nigh omnipresence, that’s specifically if you exists practically anywhere and everywhere. Her appearing when death occurs is just typical death folklore stuff.

 

[LMalone22]

that’s not nigh omnipresence, that’s specifically if you exists practically anywhere and everywhere. Her appearing when death occurs is just typical death folklore stuff.

If that's not nigh-omnipresent so what is it? Teleportation and Enhanced senses and multiple avatars, right?

 

[Theglassman12]

Most likely yeah. If it was Nigh Omnipresence she’d pull a stunt similar to Infinite Zamasu in dragon ball super where he exists practically everywhere in the universe

 

[LMalone22]

If that's case then I won't have any objections. And I have no knowledge about nigh-omnipresent as good as it should be

 

[LMalone22]

bump

 

[LMalone22]

bump

 

[LMalone22]

Right now I only need one more staff member's opinion, right?

 

[LMalone22]

bump

 

[LMalone22]

bump

 

[Qawsedf234]

Downgrade

Fine with me

Abstract Existence Type 1

Type is Fine for existing before those concepts were properly established like Eternity. The other reasons I'm not getting as valid Type 1 reasonings.

likely at least 5-A with Magic -> At least 8-C, likely at least 5-C with Magic

Alright

Other Stuff for Rio

I'm fine with all the suggested changes

Speed: Nigh-Omnipresent for Rio

Nothing listed qualifies for Nigh-Omnipresence. Its just teleportation mixed with some form of awareness power.

Attack Potency: Universe level+

Durability: Universe level+

Without directly fighting or interacting with Eternity I'm not sure if you can give her a Low 2-C rating. She has to have a valid reason of being its equal other than being a competing force.

 

[LMalone22]

Type is Fine for existing before those concepts were properly established like Eternity. The other reasons I'm not getting as valid Type 1 reasonings.

She is the original concept like eternity, and she is also said to be the nature of all things, including concepts

Nothing listed qualifies for Nigh-Omnipresence. Its just teleportation mixed with some form of awareness power.

Ok

Without directly fighting or interacting with Eternity I'm not sure if you can give her a Low 2-C rating. She has to have a valid reason of being its equal other than being a competing force.

In MCU, there are cases where scaling can follow other characters because she herself is a cosmic entity like eternity and is one of the creators. The infinity stone is the balance for the universe. As the ancient one explains, if one stone is missing the universe will be out of balance

 

[RoTt35]

and is one of the creators. The infinity stone is the balance for the universe. As the ancient one explains, if one stone is missing the universe will be out of balance

The Cosmic Entities didn't create the Infinity Stones, they were created from six singularities by the Big Bang, which was caused by Arishem

 

[LMalone22]

The Cosmic Entities didn't create the Infinity Stones, they were created from six singularities by the Big Bang, which was caused by Arishem

Wong has simply explained that during the Big Bang, a singularity was created that was scattered throughout the universe before being molded into the Infinity Stones, which was not the work of celestials, but rather cosmic entities. As shown in the official concept image, the cosmic entities are seen molding all of the Infinity Stones And the collector also explained that Before the birth of all things There are six egos. Then the universe exploded and caused an accident. Shards from each singularity Melted together into a dense mass of matter. It's an infinity stone

As the picture shows the cosmic entities creating the infinity stones

 

[FentyBeauty]

Wong has simply explained that during the Big Bang, a singularity was created that was scattered throughout the universe before being molded into the Infinity Stones, which was not the work of celestials, but rather cosmic entities.

“big bang sent six elemental crystals” basically saying that the big bang itself caused the infinity stones to form

As shown in the official concept image, the cosmic entities are seen molding all of the Infinity Stones

snip

As the picture shows the cosmic entities creating the infinity stones

it’s just concept art (well it was also shown when the collector explained the stones but wtv) and it doesn’t rlly fully confirm that they did bc the description in the artbook doesn’t rlly say much abt it and other than that they never rlly expanded on that either so there’s not much support for that other than the mural

And the collector also explained that Before the birth of all things There are six egos. Then the universe exploded and caused an accident. Shards from each singularity Melted together into a dense mass of matter. It's an infinity stone

feel like that just adds on to the big bang forming the stones rather than cosmic entities

 

[RoTt35]

This VFX interview confirms that Arishem caused the Big Bang, who btw is older than the Cosmic Entities (who came into existence at the beginning of time) and the six Singularities. And the Marvel Website straight up states that the Infinity Stones were created by the Big Bang:

Wong revealed the history of the Infinity Stones, how the Big Bang created six stones containing the universe’s elemental energies: time, power, reality, soul, space and mind.

The concept art only shows the Cosmic Entities with the stones, it doesn't say that they were their creators, which wouldn't make sense since they were created at the same time.

 

[LMalone22]

If that's case, I won't have any objections. I think the cosmic entities actually created the Infinity Stones according to the concept art

 

[LMalone22]

I removed the content about creating infinity stones and added new content to upgrade her

 

[FentyBeauty]

I removed the content about creating infinity stones and added new content to upgrade her

While Eternity and Infinity represent necessity, Death represents vengeance
being stated to be in constant competition with both Eternity and Infinity

RoTt already addressed that, constant competition ≠ being comparable in terms of power, she’s just maintaining the balance of life and death alongside eternity and infinity

It is said that all souls must come to see her. She takes souls to Hereafter, After exchanging the souls that had to be sacrificed for souls stones, it seemed impossible to redeem them and revive them, even by the power of the Infinity Stone. seems to resist the power of the Infinity Stone

souls going to her isn’t universe level+, also
sacrificed ppl not being able to return is a soul stone thing, not rio’s and we don’t know if she’s even associated with the soul stone

Even The Watcher himself could not sense the afterlife. Even though he said he knew and saw everything, he could not perceive the afterlife

in that scene where he’s implying if peggy was still alive since he could feel her, we don’t even know where she is or whether she’s actually alive or not, and u also have the prove wherever she is (if she is actually alive and she does happen to be in some plane of existence that the watcher can’t see) is the same as the afterlife rio takes people to

 

[LMalone22]

souls going to her isn’t universe level+, also
sacrificed ppl not being able to return is a soul stone thing, not rio’s and we don’t know if she’s even associated with the soul stone

She represents the death of the entire universe if someone dies in any way. Rio was going to take souls to the afterlife, so even if she had nothing to do with the souls stone, the dead souls of the sacrificed ones would gotta meet her anyway and she would have to take them to the afterlife If couldn't resurrection them then she was resisting resuscitation

 

[FentyBeauty]

She represents the death of the entire universe if someone dies in any way. Rio was going to take souls to the afterlife, so even if she had nothing to do with the souls stone, the dead souls of the sacrificed ones would gotta meet her anyway and she would have to take them to the afterlife If couldn't resurrection them then she was resisting resuscitation

that’s not an ap feat, rather that seems more related to her abstract existence/death hax instead

 

[LMalone22]

in that scene where he’s implying if peggy was still alive since he could feel her, we don’t even know where she is or whether she’s actually alive or not, and u also have the prove wherever she is (if she is actually alive and she does happen to be in some plane of existence that the watcher can’t see) is the same as the afterlife rio takes people to

I don't think he sensed her and knew she was still alive somewhere. He said perhaps she is someone somewhere is always watching and ever since her sacrifice for the first time in all time it feels like someone watching over me

 

[LMalone22]

that’s not an ap feat, rather that seems more related to her abstract existence/death hax instead

But that means she is against resurrecting people by the Infinity Stone

 

[FentyBeauty]

I don't think he sensed her and knew she was still alive somewhere. He said perhaps she is someone somewhere is always watching and ever since her scarifier for the first time in all time it feels like someone watching over me

she’s somewhere which we don’t know where she is so i don’t think this would be enough for her having an upgrade

and considering how there r many depictions of the afterlife in the mcu, it’s hard to tell so we’d like still have to prove if that place is the same one that rio takes ppl to

and i dont think that would even give her a tier anyway unless we also have proof that she has control over that afterlife

But that means she is against resurrecting people by the Infinity Stone

that’s hax not AP

 

[LMalone22]

and i dont think that would even give her a tier anyway unless we also have proof that she has control over that afterlife

eternity represents all time and he is approved as low2-c, even though his embodiment is the universe, death never shows her true body But at least she plays an important role in the universe and controls the balance of everything, including Time why she cannot be compared to eternity in some way Because in Thor:4 I saw a statue at the center of the universe where the watcher and cosmic entities and celestial and the living tribunal also existed, so she could at least be compared to them

 

[FentyBeauty]

eternity represents all time and he is approved as low2-c, even though his embodiment is the universe, death never shows her true body But at least she plays an important role in the universe and controls the balance of everything, including Time

well like it’s her job to control the balance, i still don’t see how that equates to AP

eternity being the embodiment of the universe n representing all time in it makes him Low 2-C bc he’d basically have 4D existence. u have to show her controlling/destroying space-time on the exact scale of eternity if ur planning to upgrade her to his tier based on that

why she cannot be compared to eternity in some way Because in Thor:4 I saw a statue at the center of the universe where the watcher and cosmic entities and celestial and the living tribunal also existed, so she could at least be compared to them

doesn’t have to mean she’s comparable to them. being included there could also mean she’s viewed as a very important entity just like the rest of them not that she’s as powerful as them

and based on marvel lore, it wouldn’t make sense if she was literally as powerful as the living tribunal himself either

there isn’t enough for her either since she has no direct on-screen feats/statements that’d put her up there. we only seen her as a witch/avatar fighting with agatha and billy, and she hasn’t portrayed anything on the level of cosmic entities as a witch

 

[FentyBeauty]

there’s also going to be an artbook for the agatha all along series which we might get more info on rio/death

there’s not enough stuff for her to be upgraded to have the same tier as eternity, so i feel like we should wait for that instead

 

[LMalone22]

there’s also going to be an artbook for the agatha all along series which we might get more info on rio/death

there’s not enough stuff for her to be upgraded to have the same tier as eternity, so i feel like we should wait for that instead

ok, I will wait for more information from said art book

 

[GyroNutz]

Not sure on AE type 1 and disagree with nigh-omnipresence based on the logic presented. Looking through this I also think it's best to hold off on Low 2-C upgrades until the artbook is released. Agree with everything else

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Same feelings as Qawsed.

 

[LMalone22]

Same feelings as Qawsed.

I'll wait for the art book to come out and ask for your opinion again later

 

[FentyBeauty]

since the tier 2 upgrade for rio seems to have 2 admin disagreements and the nigh-omnipresence/ae type 1 r disagreed with too, i think we can apply the already accepted stuff and close this

 

[FinePoint]

I've closed this since the accepted revisions have been applied, and the supporters seem to want to wait a while before bringing up the more controversial stuff again, which should probably be its own thread.