Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[Arc7Kuroi]

I could never get into bleach scaling because of its inconsistencies ngl.
You get direct statements like sub lightning speed Candice or mach 500 Gin in the manga just for people online to hit you with "oh no they're actually 8482884972c because Ceros are actually mftl+ according to the databooks"

But like we use Mach 500 Gin and ~lightning speed Candice as the backbone of Bleach speed scaling on wiki… on the flip side stop watching Clyde videos

Also there being contentious in verse debates doesn’t make it inconsistent, it just means the community is split

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Look at the majority of the community coming together to dispel the “me vs them” mindset

actually his scaling comes from the Elite Sternritter being > most of the non elite Sternritter. But yeah in terms of who he fights (outside of speed since he has plenty of speed feats), he doesn’t have too many quantifiable AP feats. But we can scale characters off of clear cut statements. Manga states the elites are the strongest Sternritter, anime says the same thing, CFYOW calls them unparalleled. That’s to say Askin is consistently above your normal Sternritter (Bambis, Bazz, Robert Acutrone, etc etc etc). And ignoring multipliers for a second, the normal Sternritter get their scaling from fighting Captains who scale above the Gran Rey Cero and Sokyoku spear, or even stuff like Toshiro’s weather manipulation and SS arc Ichigo and gang shaking the shakonmaku. All of which are massively above wall level (vary from mountain level to multi continental depending on interpretation). So, while Askin isn’t going around doing lots of destruction, his scaling is consistently above wall level or building level or whatever. If we scaled characters solely based on what they did empirically we’d have Blue Vegito at building level or adult Naruto and Sasuke at street level. But obviously that’s not the author’s intention, they establish characters strength through keystone statements and feats so they don’t have to have every character they write nuke the planet with every attack. It’s a concession power scaling makes. Candice’s 5 gigajoule statement is a funny downplay statement tho for debate gooning it’s in the same vein of people using sound based attacks in FTL verses

yeah that statement does not necessitate he's physically stronger, he can be on their tier due to his elite hax, and guess what we actually see him act like a ***** on screen, he's terrified and runs away from physically clashing with others until his hax comes to clutch up he wants to strategically kill them, so that's just blatant narrative portrayal that all his value comes from his the deadliness of his poison and his strategic mindset and that his physicals are not up there with others, idk why you would see that and assert he has multi continental~moon level striking strength
that's why I said charitable interpretations because calling someone unrivalled doesnt mean its exclusively talking about punching power as opposed to skill set, intelligence, physiological qualities, hax abilities etc


Also I don't think the sound based attack argument is the same as this, a blatant value the author gives you isnt the same as things commonly ignored in powerscaling, the latter is as it is now because they're not major or explicit, if you want to get your 7A, 6B, 6A bleach scaling based on "author statements" you'd have to accept the 5 giga joules thing as well, you don't get to have both sides

 

[DavidTPPM]

But like we use Mach 500 Gin and ~lightning speed Candice as the backbone of Bleach speed scaling on wiki… on the flip side stop watching Clyde videos

I mean the issue is usually less the videos saying it(I don't watch powerscalers on YouTube, shit sucks lmao) and more a lot of people saying it.
Also isn't Clyde the guy who used faked DM screen shots with Kubo or something

Also there being contentious in verse debates doesn’t make it inconsistent, it just means the community is split

I mean yeah that's true but that kinda applies to every "inconsistency". You can almost always come up with some explanation

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

yeah that statement does not necessitate he's physically stronger, he can be on their tier due to his elite hax, and guess what we actually see him act like a ***** on screen, he's terrified and runs away from physically clashing with others until his hax comes to clutch up he wants to strategically kill them, so that's just blatant narrative portrayal that all his value comes from his the deadliness of his poison and his strategic mindset and that his physicals are not up there with others, idk why you would see that and assert he has multi continental~moon level striking strength

This is Askin's fighting style. He likes to win by poisoning him insidiously. He refused to fight Mayuri just because he couldn't do it against Mayuri. Maybe his fist is capable of killing Mayuri, we don't know.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Anyone have a source for Naruto Kizuna: The Words that Bind?

Yeah, 1 & 2

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

yeah that statement does not necessitate he's physically stronger, he can be on their tier due to his elite hax, and guess what we actually see him act like a ***** on screen, he's terrified and runs away from physically clashing with others until his hax comes to clutch up he wants to strategically kill them, so that's just blatant narrative portrayal that all his value comes from his the deadliness of his poison and his strategic mindset and that his physicals are not up there with others, idk why you would see that and assert he has multi continental~moon level striking strength
that's why I said charitable interpretations because calling someone unrivalled doesnt mean its exclusively talking about punching power as opposed to skill set, intelligence, physiological qualities, hax abilities etc

Him running away from Grimmjow, Yoruichi, Yushiro, and Kirinji don’t support the claim that he’s weak. Askin tries to explicitly make himself seem defenseless in order to lure his opponents into a false sense of security to catch them off guard with his Schrift. Utilizing strategy =/= being weak. Also, Askin has a plethora of great durability feats, for example he tanks both Yoruichi and Yushiro’s Shunko attacks (since he necessarily has to before he can gain immunity to them, as he needs to ingest lots of reiatsu), and given how the energy system works within Bleach, it adds consistency to him having AP on that level, since his durability is (also Quincy explicitly utilize the same system for both offense and defense). I’m curious why you think being cautious makes you weak, by that metric is Aizen super weak? Before he became transcendent, he was one of the most cautious people in the verse, while simultaneously being among the strongest. I agree that Askin’s most lethal techniques are his hax, but that doesn’t entail the conclusion that he’s physically weak.

Also I don't think the sound based attack argument is the same as this, a blatant value the author gives you isnt the same as things commonly ignored in powerscaling, the latter is as it is now because they're not major or explicit, if you want to get your 7A, 6B, 6A bleach scaling based on "author statements" you'd have to accept the 5 giga joules thing as well, you don't get to have both sides

1) the author isn’t giving us a direct value, a character is, and characters can be fallible, and even intentionally written to be fallible
2) I don’t have to accept 5 GJ Candice, as it is far from being consistent, and you couldn’t even prove that her statement is correct

So I’m not cherry picking anything here. I’m evaluating the series on what’s most consistent. When we scale we need to look at context in its entirety, and a single one off 5 GJ Candice statement is not more consistent than the dozens to hundreds of feats and statements that place the Candice tier and even weaker characters far beyond 5 GJ. We can agree to disagree, but let’s not be dishonest and pretend that Candice’s statement is a WoG author statement.

 

[Deceived3596]

Believes in Low 2-C / 2-C Boruto god tiers, but is skeptical about Bleach characters like Askin being above building level.

I can't.

 

[Damage3245]

Believes in Low 2-C / 2-C Boruto god tiers, but is skeptical about Bleach characters like Askin being above building level.

I can't.

And they call me the downplayer.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Him running away from Grimmjow, Yoruichi, Yushiro, and Kirinji don’t support the claim that he’s weak. Askin tries to explicitly make himself seem defenseless in order to lure his opponents into a false sense of security to catch them off guard with his Schrift. Utilizing strategy =/= being weak. Also, Askin has a plethora of great durability feats, for example he tanks both Yoruichi and Yushiro’s Shunko attacks (since he necessarily has to before he can gain immunity to them, as he needs to ingest lots of reiatsu), and given how the energy system works within Bleach, it adds consistency to him having AP on that level, since his durability is (also Quincy explicitly utilize the same system for both offense and defense). I’m

I'll respond to this in a sec (ass counter btw)

Believes in Low 2-C / 2-C Boruto god tiers, but is skeptical about Bleach characters like Askin being above building level.

I can't.

I also believe in 4A~3C~3B Bleach God Tiers
now what?
ever considered the fact that maybe JUST MAYBE
the evidence and arguments for Askin just suck instead of me being a bleach hating naruto fan?
it's not like we see him get scared of flying rocks and evade anything to do with physical combat

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

it's not like we see him get scared of flying rocks and evade anything to do with physical combat

And it’s not like adult Naruto’s best feats are only causing tier 9 damage to the ground Brody, oh wait they are, so let’s not be absurdists and pretend the authors show everything to the scale which we power scale the characters. Idk why you’re being so pigheaded about this. And furthermore, you’ve yet to explain why Askin fighting smart entails he’s weak. Repeating “he has no big punching feats” isn’t an argument.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Maybe buildings constructed by Yhwach's Reishi are just that strong that their falling pieces can one-shot high ranking Quincies

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Small Planet Level Rocks and 4D gravity

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Maybe buildings constructed by Yhwach's Reishi are just that strong that their falling pieces can one-shot high ranking Quincies

Shadow already explained away the contradiction. People are irrational beings when it comes to getting hurt. Someone will flinch at a piece of paper being flung at them, someone will worry about an ant, etc etc. So, there exists very reasonable interpretations of Askin’s statement that are more consistent with the established power scaling that don’t make him wall level or whatever. There doesn’t need to be any “reishi buildings tho ” no one is going to take that seriously (rightfully so). Just go read Shadows post.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

And it’s not like adult Naruto’s best feats are only causing tier 9 damage to the ground Brody, oh wait they are, so let’s not be absurdists and pretend the authors show everything to the scale which we power scale the characters. Idk why you’re being so pigheaded about this. And furthermore, you’ve yet to explain why Askin fighting smart entails he’s weak. Repeating “he has no big punching feats” isn’t an argument.

I have no skin in this argument, but allow me to ask a question… would it be valid to ask why the “Unparalleled” statement, among others, is generalized to cover all areas instead of focusing on the areas these characters specialize in that would make them “Unparalleled”?

As an example, Death Dealing in and of itself is a power that 96% of the verse could not handle. The same Ichigo that pieced up Yhwach when he wasn't using Almighty was faceplanted by Askin on ability’s affect alone. Doesn’t that merit an argument of these characters aren’t “necessarily” unparalleled in all areas comparatively.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Shadow already explained away the contradiction. People are irrational beings when it comes to getting hurt. Someone will flinch at a piece of paper being flung at them, someone will worry about an ant, etc etc. So, there exists very reasonable interpretations of Askin’s statement that are more consistent with the established power scaling that don’t make him wall level or whatever. There doesn’t need to be any “reishi buildings tho ” no one is going to take that seriously (rightfully so). Just go read Shadows post.

Yeah, I'm just trolling. I don't think it downgrades Askin to Building Level (suprisingly).

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I have no skin in this argument, but allow me to ask a question… would it be valid to ask why the “Unparalleled” statement, among others, is generalized to cover all areas instead of focusing on the areas these characters specialize in that would make them “Unparalleled”?

As an example, Death Dealing in and of itself is a power that 96% of the verse could not handle. The same Ichigo that pieced up Yhwach when he wasn't using Almighty was faceplanted by Askin on ability’s affect alone. Doesn’t that merit an argument of these characters aren’t “necessarily” unparalleled in all areas comparatively.

100% valid question to ask.

So Liltotto makes that statement right, so we can establish that at least she thinks the Elite are unparalleled to herself, since she’s making the statement, she’s conceding that they’re above her. This same Liltotto also admits that she barely knows the abilities of the Elite’s schrifts and the full extent of their hax. Meanwhile, we know that Quincy are extremely adept at spiritual senses, so we can deduce that she’s most likely talking about statistics. Since that’s something we know she can prod at, while we blatantly know she isn’t aware of the full extent of the Elite’s hax. And that’s why I personally argue that those statements are about a level of power and not just “OP hax tho”. And it also makes logical sense for Yhwach to pick the strongest of his soldiers in all respects for his personal guard. That’s the tldr.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yeah, 1 & 2

Uh how does this work

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

It is blatant it’s just not consistent.

ONG is that Hulkenburg?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

ONG is that Hulkenburg?

Had to represent

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

In the novel, when Liltotto learns that Gerard and Yhwach lost, my husband opens his mouth and looks at him in surprise. And this character hasn't even seen Gerard after Aushwelen. We can even say Pre-Aushwelen Gerard>>>>>>Liltotto.

There are 2 things I don't agree with in the Bleach profiles on this wiki. One is that the Espada are listed according to numbers. The other is that Quincy is generally above Espada. I had argued with Arc before, but it was a debate where neither side changed their minds. I respect that though.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

In the novel, when Liltotto learns that Gerard and Yhwach lost, my husband opens his mouth and looks at him in surprise. And this character hasn't even seen Gerard after Aushwelen. We can even say Pre-Aushwelen Gerard>>>>>>Liltotto.

There are 2 things I don't agree with in the Bleach profiles on this wiki. One is that the Espada are listed according to numbers. The other is that Quincy is generally above Espada. I had argued with Arc before, but it was a debate where neither side changed their minds. I respect that though.

I took your lack of responding/ghosting that debate as a concession via burden of rejoinder ngl. But we can always run that back in Bleach general whenever you’re feeling motivated lol.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Him running away from Grimmjow, Yoruichi, Yushiro, and Kirinji don’t support the claim that he’s weak. Askin tries to explicitly make himself seem defenseless in order to lure his opponents into a false sense of security to catch them off guard with his Schrift. Utilizing strategy =/= being weak. Also, Askin has a plethora of great durability feats, for example he tanks both Yoruichi and Yushiro’s Shunko attacks (since he necessarily has to before he can gain immunity to them, as he needs to ingest lots of reiatsu), and given how the energy system works within Bleach, it adds consistency to him having AP on that level, since his durability is (also Quincy explicitly utilize the same system for both offense and defense). I’m curious why you think being cautious makes you weak, by that metric is Aizen super weak? Before he became transcendent, he was one of the most cautious people in the verse, while simultaneously being among the strongest. I agree that Askin’s most lethal techniques are his hax, but that doesn’t entail the conclusion that he’s physically weak.

Him NOT showing AP feats and the reverse is a very strong implication of him NOT being on that level, if Askin physically beat up a bunch of H6As and then ran away we could consider that, you want AP and striking strength you have to show valid feats or statements that lead up to such a conclusion, if there is NO evidence for his physicals then him running like a ***** and explaining how he doesn't wanna beat them but kill them (referring to strategical victories) showcasing him straying from brawling that by itself is a valid reason to NOT give him his scaling

the aizen argument is so ass, aizen has shown blatant feats and there are times where he physically cant compete against certain characters where he needs to be strategic so yes in those cases he definitely doesn't scale to those enemies, simple

• you have anti feats (rocks)
• you have no AP feats
• you have him in character evading physical combat
• you have statements that are totally vague and not supportive of the conclusions you draw especially attributed to his hax, all the advantages and Ws he gets in the narrative are thanks to hax

so there's no real valid reason to give that bum multi continental punches other than "i like him and want him to scale high", we can consider the strategy thing to not be an inverse anti feat IF he a very strong history of physically clashing with others, which he does not, at all.
the wiki is a conservative place where you have to bring strong evidence to support your conclusion, otherwise we would give Konan island level possibly small country level for being an akatsuki member or town level for being above jonins, we dont do that even tho she CAN be physically that strong but because we dont have the necessary evidence to prove it, same thing with Askin he and Candice in my opinion should be rated as unknown

1) the author isn’t giving us a direct value, a character is, and characters can be fallible, and even intentionally written to be fallible
2) I don’t have to accept 5 GJ Candice, as it is far from being consistent, and you couldn’t even prove that her statement is correct

So I’m not cherry picking anything here. I’m evaluating the series on what’s most consistent. When we scale we need to look at context in its entirety, and a single one off 5 GJ Candice statement is not more consistent than the dozens to hundreds of feats and statements that place the Candice tier and even weaker characters far beyond 5 GJ. We can agree to disagree, but let’s not be dishonest and pretend that Candice’s statement is a WoG author statement.

1) yeah no, it's a rare case where character spit out cross verse scaling applicable statements and end up completely wrong even so such a claim that Kubo wrote her intentionally to be wrong needs to be substantiated by good reasoning, which there isnt
2) it's not my job to prove its correct, we assume explicit statements are correct unless proven wrong and you dont get to pull the "its not consistent" card when the sternritters have multiple anti feats, and candace doesnt even have tier 6 feats nor does she have feats against tier 6 people, all she has is one klub outside statement thats doesnt explicitly mention physicals either

you believe it is more consistent for sure but I disagree there, you have no issues wanking the hell out of single one off statements if it means getting upgrades (this is for your naruto scaling as well points to multi cont obito) all the dozens of feats of the higher end stuff isnt helping your case if the people who had those feats arent beat up by her, her statement would be as valid as a WOG statement unless someone can prove there is strong reason for kubo to intentionally make her say the wrong things as opposed to not having his mid tier characters scale that high

100% valid question to ask.

So Liltotto makes that statement right, so we can establish that at least she thinks the Elite are unparalleled to herself, since she’s making the statement, she’s conceding that they’re above her. This same Liltotto also admits that she barely knows the abilities of the Elite’s schrifts and the full extent of their hax. Meanwhile, we know that Quincy are extremely adept at spiritual senses, so we can deduce that she’s most likely talking about statistics. Since that’s something we know she can prod at, while we blatantly know she isn’t aware of the full extent of the Elite’s hax. And that’s why I personally argue that those statements are about a level of power and not just “OP hax tho”. And it also makes logical sense for Yhwach to pick the strongest of his soldiers in all respects for his personal guard. That’s the tldr.

most sternritters bleach characters in general have broken hax, so you cant really say their hax are never considered when giving them placements in the story, also Idk most of the context for the statement but I doubt very much a character who isnt a physically oriented fighter is gonna be regarded at all for his physical stats, there's a lot of variables to consider than just "haha she doesnt know his ability so shes talking about how strong he punches"

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Getting back to a Naruto/Boruto oriented discussion though, what do you guys honestly think the outcome of the current fights should be? Is it too soon for a Shinju to lose? Would it anti-climactic if the Shinju leave this fight having not left a victim?

I’ve seen the argument going around that the Shinju, particularly Ryu, should achieve his goal in devouring Gaara because otherwise, the Shinju are ineffective as “threatening” antagonists (Big strong group that hasn’t done anything notable before they start losing).

Thoughts?

 

[Nierre]

So Liltotto makes that statement right, so we can establish that at least she thinks the Elite are unparalleled to herself, since she’s making the statement, she’s conceding that they’re above her. This same Liltotto also admits that she barely knows the abilities of the Elite’s schrifts and the full extent of their hax.

I mean, couldn't this also mean that from the little she knows it's his hax that grants him his "unparalleled" superiority to her. She knows little about his abilities but she knows that he was chosen due to how strong he is, which AFAIK doesn't automatically mean physical strength, especially considering how broken the Elites abilities are. And considering that he's not much of a physical fighter, the argument that it's more of an "OP" hax thing has more credence to me anyway.

It's been years since I've seen bleach so I can't give my full thoughts on this, but based on what I'm seeing here, it seems more 50/50 than you're making it out to be tbh

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Getting back to a Naruto/Boruto oriented discussion though, what do you guys honestly think the outcome of the current fights should be? Is it too soon for a Shinju to lose? Would it anti-climactic if the Shinju leave this fight having not left a victim?

I’ve seen the argument going around that the Shinju, particularly Ryu, should achieve his goal in devouring Gaara because otherwise, the Shinju are ineffective as “threatening” antagonists (Big strong group that hasn’t done anything notable before they start losing).

Thoughts?

I hope no one dies

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I mean, couldn't this also mean that from the little she knows it's his hax that grants him his "unparalleled" superiority to her. She knows little about his abilities but she knows that he was chosen due to how strong he is, which AFAIK doesn't automatically mean physical strength, especially considering how broken the Elites abilities are. And considering that he's not much of a physical fighter, the argument that it's more of an "OP" hax thing has more credence to me anyway.

It's been years since I've seen bleach so I can't give my full thoughts on this, but based on what I'm seeing here, it seems more 50/50 than you're making it out to be tbh

Can you post what scan you’re talking about when you say “she knows it’s his hax that makes him superior”? I’m not really sure what you’re talking about here.

 

[Nierre]

Getting back to a Naruto/Boruto oriented discussion though, what do you guys honestly think the outcome of the current fights should be? Is it too soon for a Shinju to lose? Would it anti-climactic if the Shinju leave this fight having not left a victim?

I’ve seen the argument going around that the Shinju, particularly Ryu, should achieve his goal in devouring Gaara because otherwise, the Shinju are ineffective as “threatening” antagonists (Big strong group that hasn’t done anything notable before they start losing).

Thoughts?

there was a V-Jump thing that came up that showed Boruto and Ryu, and pretty much compared them to Naruto and Gaara, saying that they "inherited their battles", as in, Boruto is going to eventually fight Ryu. So it's likely that Team 7 and Sand Duo get into trouble, and Boruto joins in and fights. In terms of outcome, I low-key want Konohamaru to lose and be taken back but on purpose so he can recon while being captured. If Ryu vs Boruto is gonna be anything like Naruto vs Gaara, he probably gets defeated here

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Uh how does this work

Download them and then download a CBZ reader.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Can you post what scan you’re talking about when you say “she knows it’s his hax that makes him superior”? I’m not really sure what you’re talking about here.

lol, it says she knew their capabilities
so there goes your argument of her not knowing the "OP hax"
https://media.**********.net/attachments/1068381282976935936/1338203751176998964/5Tb5jXa.png?ex=67aa3adc&is=67a8e95c&hm=08e93007f1cf61ffeb5cf4517a5f3994135acc02f2a2749ae506aeede6d5f9df&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=2160&height=453

this is what their profile justification has for physicals

 

[Damage3245]

Your link doesn't work.

 

[Deceived3596]

Link broken like every link on all of the Naruto profiles.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Your link doesn't work.

try now or check from askin's profile

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Download them and then download a CBZ reader.

What do you use? Comics++ doesn't seem to work.

 

[Nierre]

Can you post what scan you’re talking about when you say “she knows it’s his hax that makes him superior”? I’m not really sure what you’re talking about here.

Its not from a scan, that was the conclusion I was entertaining Liliotto's statement of the Elites being unparalleled. I was saying that based on his showings it's likely referring to his hax.

The way I see it is like Shino. Like yeah he's a Jounin, and he's "stronger" than characters like Boruto, but he's not a physical fighter at all, and its more likely than not that he got to that ranking due to his experience, skills, hax/abilities etc etc, but definitely not physicals. Not the same ik, but I feel like it's a fair comparison

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Him NOT showing AP feats and the reverse is a very strong implication of him NOT being on that level, if Askin physically beat up a bunch of H6As and then ran away we could consider that, you want AP and striking strength you have to show valid feats or statements that lead up to such a conclusion, if there is NO evidence for his physicals then him running like a ***** and explaining how he doesn't wanna beat them but kill them (referring to strategical victories) showcasing him straying from brawling that by itself is a valid reason to NOT give him his scaling

He doesn’t like to brutally strangle his opponents because it’s barbaric and lacks style. Verbatim what he said. Him using tactical retreats doesn’t entail a physical weakness. He’s got an uber busted hax that guarantees victory vs risking it in physical confrontation. It doesn’t take a genius to know which stratagem is superior.

the aizen argument is so ass, aizen has shown blatant feats and there are times where he physically cant compete against certain characters where he needs to be strategic so yes in those cases he definitely doesn't scale to those enemies, simple

He quite literally physically tanks several attacks from Yoruichi and Yushiro… the notion that he never competes physically is just incorrect. It’s never stated in anyway that he NEEDS his hax to win, only that he doesn’t like direct confrontation because it’s barbaric and lacks style.

• you have anti feats (rocks)

Not an anti feat, Shadow explained perfectly why it can be interpreted in ways that don’t entail Askin gets negged by rubble. And rather than address that you just repeat this.

• you have no AP feats

He does tho. He can harm Yushiro, Yushiro can harm Askin, Askin (pre invulnerability) can take attacks from Yoruichi. So boom there’s some relativity scaling Askin ~ Yushiro ~ Yoruichi.

• you have him in character evading physical combat

Yep characters generally evade shit most of the time.

• you have statements that are totally vague and not supportive of the conclusions you draw especially attributed to his hax, all the advantages and Ws he gets in the narrative are thanks to hax

I’ve made a case for them not being vague, and winning with his hax doesn’t support your claim.

so there's no real valid reason to give that bum multi continental punches other than "i like him and want him to scale high", we can consider the strategy thing to not be an inverse anti feat IF he a very strong history of physically clashing with others, which he does not, at all.

lol not at all but pop off. Imagine if you could only be scaled if you fought like it’s DBZ.

the wiki is a conservative place where you have to bring strong evidence to support your conclusion, otherwise we would give Konan island level possibly small country level for being an akatsuki member or town level for being above jonins, we dont do that even tho she CAN be physically that strong but because we dont have the necessary evidence to prove it, same thing with Askin he and Candice in my opinion should be rated as unknown

You’re entitled to that opinion

1) yeah no, it's a rare case where character spit out cross verse scaling applicable statements and end up completely wrong even so such a claim that Kubo wrote her intentionally to be wrong needs to be substantiated by good reasoning, which there isnt

There is, as I brought up the numerous contradictory feats and statements that you can see by either opening the manga or looking at the verse page.

2) it's not my job to prove its correct, we assume explicit statements are correct unless proven wrong and you dont get to pull the "its not consistent" card when the sternritters have multiple anti feats, and candace doesnt even have tier 6 feats nor does she have feats against tier 6 people, all she has is one klub outside statement thats doesnt explicitly mention physicals either

You actually do need to prove your claim. You’re asserting that she’s a reliable narrator and that her statement takes utmost precedent. You absolutely need to substantiate that.

you believe it is more consistent for sure but I disagree there, you have no issues wanking the hell out of single one off statements if it means getting upgrades (this is for your naruto scaling as well points to multi cont obito) all the dozens of feats of the higher end stuff isnt helping your case if the people who had those feats arent beat up by her, her statement would be as valid as a WOG statement unless someone can prove there is strong reason for kubo to intentionally make her say the wrong things as opposed to not having his mid tier characters scale that high

Your perspective is fundamentally flawed, and it’s exemplified by your “you need to physically beat someone down or you cannot scale” mentality. And I’ve got no invested interest in changing your mind in that regard, you’re free to maintain an empiricism or bust type of scaling (lots of people do). However, most of your argument buckles down to equivocal interpretations without substantiation and ad hominems, it’s just not convincing.

 

[ssgengar]

Getting back to a Naruto/Boruto oriented discussion though, what do you guys honestly think the outcome of the current fights should be? Is it too soon for a Shinju to lose? Would it anti-climactic if the Shinju leave this fight having not left a victim?

I’ve seen the argument going around that the Shinju, particularly Ryu, should achieve his goal in devouring Gaara because otherwise, the Shinju are ineffective as “threatening” antagonists (Big strong group that hasn’t done anything notable before they start losing).

Thoughts?

I wouldn’t mind a death tbh. Right now, aside from Jura, the Shinju don’t seem very threatening to me so seeing Ryu get a dub here is something I’d actually like to see

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Its not from a scan, that was the conclusion I was entertaining Liliotto's statement of the Elites being unparalleled. I was saying that based on his showings it's likely referring to his hax.

The way I see it is like Shino. Like yeah he's a Jounin, and he's "stronger" than characters like Boruto, but he's not a physical fighter at all, and its more likely than not that he got to that ranking due to his experience, skills, hax/abilities etc etc, but definitely not physicals. Not the same ik, but I feel like it's a fair comparison

Liltotto isn’t making a statement based on his showings. She has never seen him fight. Her only information that she can directly confirm is based on what she can sense. I’d be inclined to agree if the context of the statement was in relation to a wholistic view of Askin but it’s not.

 

[Nierre]

I don't think they're very threatening from a meta standpoint, like even Jigen felt more threatening and he's long gone

but I still think theyre still pretty threatening. Konoha needing to send their best team to deal with two of em and it's likely Boruto is gonna save them so they're still a problem. Ada can't even use her hax cuz of Bug

Bug clashed with Boruto
Hidari clashed with Boruto, and Boruto needed Uzuhiko to defeat him
Ryu will likely clash with Boruto
Jura is Jura
Matsuri is TBD

 

[ssgengar]

I don't think they're very threatening from a meta standpoint, like even Jigen felt more threatening and he's long gone

but I still think theyre still pretty threatening. Konoha needing to send their best team to deal with two of em and it's likely Boruto is gonna save them so they're still a problem. Ada can't even use her hax cuz of Bug

Bug clashed with Boruto
Hidari clashed with Boruto, and Boruto needed Uzuhiko to defeat him
Ryu will likely clash with Boruto
Jura is Jura
Matsuri is TBD

Despite what I just said I will say I do have pretty high expectations for Bug. Him sensing Ada was a pretty cool/creepy scene so I hope to see him do some damage in his first real fight

 

[Nierre]

yeah for sure. I think Ryu and Bug have my highest expectations. I've always liked Shinki's abilities, couple that with Ryu's personality he's great. Bug is sus as hell and his ability was sick too