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The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

Yeah even at her worst Gwenpool is described as having at least Scarlet Witch level Reality Warping powers. Not to mention as Saman said, her plot/narrative powers are explicitly only limited by the Real Life Authors and them actively undoing her stuff if she goes too far with it, which is consistently stated so this isn't like some one off thing, it's clearly meant to be her true restriction to her powers.
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
Yeah even at her worst Gwenpool is described as having at least Scarlet Witch level Reality Warping powers. Not to mention as Saman said, her plot/narrative powers are explicitly only limited by the Real Life Authors and them actively undoing her stuff if she goes too far with it, which is consistently stated so this isn't like some one off thing, it's clearly meant to be her true restriction to her powers.
Click to expand...
She was also shown to play with writers too, she once made a writer spill the coffee, and there was once she apparently summoned a real world writer to make an appearance on her comic.
 
Tomfer

Thread 'Welcome Werewolf by Night, plus upgrades (Marvel Comics)'

Jack Russell's Profile:​

vsbattles.fandom.com

Tomfer/Jack Russell

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

Here's the profile of Jack Russell, the OG Werewolf by Night. Here are the most notable additions of his profile that need a closer look:
  • Tomfer
  • marvel comics moon knight (marvel comics) tigra (marvel comics) werewolf by night (marvel comics)
  • Replies: 30
  • Forum: Content Revision
  • Like
 
So, a few things I found out after reading Volume 6:
  • Doctor Doom states that the Cormurant comes from a Higher Plane of Existence entirely than Earth 616 in Vol 6 issue 25. Cormurant confirms this in Vol 6 issue 43
  • The Cormorant was stated by Dr. Doom to be one of the most powerful beings in this or any reality.
  • Wrath empowered by the M'krann Crystal that he himself destroyed before being amped by them, still was being defeated by Comurant until he used the one weakness he built into Cormurant just in case of this exact situation (Fantastic Four Vol 6 issue 44) . Wrath stated he survived a blast that eradicated 9/10ths of Creation, something confirmed by Uatu. (Vol 6 issue 42). I say defeat loosely because he really didn't seem that affected afterwards so yeah Cormurant is a whole beast.
  • Despite being told about The Cormurant by Dr.Doom, Reed is still confident Franklin could fight him (Vol 6 issue 25)
  • Cormurant straight up acknowledges that Franklin was the only being who could possibly fight him in 616 (Once again, Vol 6 issue 25)

So yeah, 1-A even for a Heavily Weakened Franklin is completely confirmed as of Volume 6. Like he was roughly even with Cormurant who was about to kill someone who tanked 9/10ths of All of Creation being destroyed, is from a higher plane of reality, and straight up said no one else in 616 could possibly match him other than Franklin.
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
I have this, but I don't have eventual plans to upgrade her directly. Maybe add some High 1-B feats to her profile at best.
vsbattles.fandom.com

Limbo Weapons (Marvel Comics)

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
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Oh okay sweet I'll use this on her profile as well if you don't mind and thank god I didn't want to sound crazy but she had so much stuff I couldn't help but think the soulsword should be tier 1 from all I've read so far
 
ProfectusInfinity said:
You can use all the feats if you want, but not the hax.
Click to expand...
oh yeah I'm aware if anything once your page is made I'll just link that to the profile instead of copying and pasting cause that'd be ratty and you already did like 10000% of the work for that, I've already got my own soulsword section I've worked out to add those abilities specific to it with my own scans I've been gathering especially since this from your stuff seems to be all limbo specific abilities and tiering anyways
 
Excellence616

Thread 'Marvel Comics: High 3-A Heralds Upgrade'

All High 3-A Heralds should be upgraded to Low 1-C.

Feat:
  • Excellence616
  • beta ray bill galactus (marvel comics) hercules (marvel comics) hulk (marvel comics) marvel marvel comics silver surfer (marvel comics) thanos (marvel comics) the sentry thor (marvel comics)
  • Replies: 69
  • Forum: Content Revision
  • Like
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Are Loki and Malekith High Tier Sorcerers?
Click to expand...
Definitely. Before Doctor Strange became Sorcerer Supreme, Loki was incomparably more powerful than him. Doctor Strange said his power was without comprehension, and Loki was just using a spiritual form during that fight, so was much weaker than normal.

I'm planning on a CRT adding Malekith and a bunch of other Thor characters, as well as revising/upgrading Loki. I'll post it after my Yggdrasil thread is completed, and since most of the characters will scale to Herald Tier I'll wait until @Excellence616's thread is done too.
 
Oh uh, BTW Onslaught was explicitly stated (yes, without the Nate Grey / Franklin amp he got) to be the most powerful evil entity the X-Men have ever faced in Wolverine Vol 2 #104... (Yes, this would include Dark Phoenix. I'm not joking. Onslaught even compared himself to the power Jean Grey had as the Phoenix [He said this in X-Men Vol 2 #53], and since he's part Xavier he's literally seen that power firsthand) . This also is supported by how a Fully Powered Legion was hesitant to fight a weaker Onslaught that appeared in Krakoa without every Krakoan fighting alongside him.

So if the Pheonix Avatars get upgraded later on due to the Otherworld shenanigans, Base Onslaught, and as a result Child Franklin, Nate Grey, and Banner-less Hulk would get upgraded as well.
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
Oh uh, BTW Onslaught was explicitly stated (yes, without the Nate Grey / Franklin amp he got) to be the most powerful evil entity the X-Men have ever faced in Wolverine Vol 2 #104... (Yes, this would include Dark Phoenix. I'm not joking. Onslaught even compared himself to the power Jean Grey had as the Phoenix [He said this in X-Men Vol 2 #53], and since he's part Xavier he's literally seen that power firsthand) . This also is supported by how a Fully Powered Legion was hesitant to fight a weaker Onslaught that appeared in Krakoa without every Krakoan fighting alongside him.

So if the Pheonix Avatars get upgraded later on due to the Otherworld shenanigans, Base Onslaught, and as a result Child Franklin, Nate Grey, and Banner-less Hulk would get upgraded as well.
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Wouldn't that then upgrade a ton of characters? Like I could be wrong, but aren't Celestials comparable to Franklin, and below Uni Abstracts?
 
A struggle I've noticed we've had recently on the site is that there is a LOT of 1-A stuff popping up that threatens to basically have every relevant cosmic character end up as 1-A. So like... is everyone 1-A?

Regardless there needs to be some organized effort to recategorize everyone and make it clear EXACTLY where on 1-A everyone is, and reevaluating how Abstract scaling works at all. Like where would the Phoenix revision leave it in relation to Uni Abstracts?

I feel Uni Abstract scaling in general needs to be revisited, since there is so much that kinda indicates that 616 Abstracts at least scale above characters who scale to all realities. That's a problem under our current system, but is consistent in-verse, so our system needs to change

Whatever happens, the verse page needs to have a Tier list of some sort, explaining Hell Lord vs Skyfather vs Celestial vs Uni Abstract vs Multi Abstract levels, and who fits into what and who is above who.
 
ObberGobb said:
Wouldn't that then upgrade a ton of characters? Like I could be wrong, but aren't Celestials comparable to Franklin, and below Uni Abstracts?
Click to expand...
Celestials vary a lot though. While Heroes Reborn tries to introduce that they are weaker, even during Heroes Reborn they straight up contradict that hard by implicating that no other being in 616's history ever reached their level until Franklin appeared)

Heck ROMA of all people call the Celestials All-Powerful despite being stated to be more than powerful enough to justify her title as being the Guardian and Protector of the Omniverse
 
Sorry for the double post but this is pretty damning:
  • A weaker variant of Child Franklin than the one from Heroes Reborn (because as I showed earlier Franklin's powers are constantly growing) already has a feat against fighting Phoenix Force Rachel and Nightmare, both he's shown superiority towards during Excalibur #29. This already puts them being so much weaker than the Abstracts into question.
  • In Heroes Reborn: The Return #4, Doctor Strange even indirectly admitted he couldn't do anything against stopping Asheema, saying that Eternity was 'his Last Hope' , meaning literally nothing he could do would be able to stop them. Considering the fact he has access to Abstract level powers this is extremely damning.
  • Also, if Celestials were considered so far below the Abstracts, Franklin wouldn't have been considered a threat to them (a threat that's proven later by harming them during the Abraxas Arc with an attack that wasn't even intended to harm them) and the entirety of everything as Roma puts it, someone whose everything would include the Omniverse as that's literally her job to observe and protect it.
  • Okay so re-reading it it's even crazier... The Celestials stated that his powers are unprecedented in his race's history. At the time Franklin was considered a mutant, so this is essentially saying 'he has powers unprecedented in the mutant race's history' , and with Asheema doubling down that humanity reached it's pinnacle with Franklin.

So this is essentially saying no human/mutant ever compared to Franklin up until this point, regardless of external amps and what not. I... don't need to explain how ridiculous such a statement is. It basically confirmed Franklin as being the de-factor Goat of 616 and with The Celestials being straight up superior to them in the same mannerisms. It also confirms his superiority to A LOT of 1-A characters up until this point.
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
Celestials vary a lot though. While Heroes Reborn tries to introduce that they are weaker, even during Heroes Reborn they straight up contradict that hard by implicating that no other being in 616's history ever reached their level until Franklin appeared)

Heck ROMA of all people call the Celestials All-Powerful despite being stated to be more than powerful enough to justify her title as being the Guardian and Protector of the Omniverse
Click to expand...
So do you think we should scale the above or below Franklin?
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
Sorry for the double post but this is pretty damning:
  • A weaker variant of Child Franklin than the one from Heroes Reborn (because as I showed earlier Franklin's powers are constantly growing) already has a feat against fighting Phoenix Force Rachel and Nightmare, both he's shown superiority towards during Excalibur #29. This already puts them being so much weaker than the Abstracts into question.
  • In Heroes Reborn: The Return #4, Doctor Strange even indirectly admitted he couldn't do anything against stopping Asheema, saying that Eternity was 'his Last Hope' , meaning literally nothing he could do would be able to stop them. Considering the fact he has access to Abstract level powers this is extremely damning.
  • Also, if Celestials were considered so far below the Abstracts, Franklin wouldn't have been considered a threat to them (a threat that's proven later by harming them during the Abraxas Arc with an attack that wasn't even intended to harm them) and the entirety of everything as Roma puts it, someone whose everything would include the Omniverse as that's literally her job to observe and protect it.
  • Okay so re-reading it it's even crazier... The Celestials stated that his powers are unprecedented in his race's history. At the time Franklin was considered a mutant, so this is essentially saying 'he has powers unprecedented in the mutant race's history' , and with Asheema doubling down that humanity reached it's pinnacle with Franklin.

So this is essentially saying no human/mutant ever compared to Franklin up until this point, regardless of external amps and what not. I... don't need to explain how ridiculous such a statement is. It basically confirmed Franklin as being the de-factor Goat of 616 and with The Celestials being straight up superior to them in the same mannerisms. It also confirms his superiority to A LOT of 1-A characters up until this point.
Click to expand...
I don't really know why Franklin wasn't 1-A all this time. The guy is so busted.

I even plan on doing a Powers and Abilities Revision for Franklin after i have done reading Immortal Hulk and revising Quicksilver's profile
 
ObberGobb said:
So do you think we should scale the above or below Franklin?
Click to expand...

It's... not an easy question to answer. Heroes Reborn: The Return #4, it's... weird. Because of the wording of the statement about Eternity dreaming up the Celestials, it is referred to as 'Perhaps', which is not objective fact, it's subjective, a possibility rather than hard fact. That combined with the contradictions I laid out puts that entire thing into question, especially with someone who can become Abstract Level at any point admitting that Eternity was his Last Hope against the threat of the Celestials. He didn't say Eternity could stomp them or anything, he just said he was his last hope, we don't get enough confirmation as to how their confrontation would've went.

That combined with the confirmation that the Celestials straight up stated that Franklin is superior to every mutant/human in the entirety of 616's History as of that point literally puts him on a ridiculously high-end level. I'm not saying ALL Celestials are ~ or > Eternity or anything, but in this case it's clear to see there are some who are.
Excellence616 said:
I don't really know why Franklin wasn't 1-A all this time. The guy is so busted.

I even plan on doing a Powers and Abilities Revision for Franklin after i have done reading Immortal Hulk and revising Quicksilver's profile
Click to expand...

Indeed.

Also, I'm looking forward to that.
 
The Herald rating are all over the place. So herald are rated 3-C but those they scale from are High 1-B or High 3-A. Some are High 3-A by a weak statement, others are rated too low.

It would be a lot of work but i still need to do it.
 
Excellence616 said:
The Herald rating are all over the place. So herald are rated 3-C but those they scale from are High 1-B or High 3-A. Some are High 3-A by a weak statement, others are rated too low.

It would be a lot of work but i still need to do it.
Click to expand...
When I am done with Heralds revision, i would make a rule to firmly make upgrading Heralds very strict
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
Sorry for the double post but this is pretty damning:
Click to expand...
I... realized something horrifying after the dreaded shower thoughts. 'Unprecedented in humanity's/mutant's history' doesn't just mean what humanity/mutant has seen capable of acheiving by themselves, but also what they've seen, known of, or heard of, as that would count as part of their history too. Oh god. That essentially guarantees Heroes Reborn: The Return Franklin as not only being > Everything that a Human/Mutant has ever achieved up until Heroes Reborn: The Return, but also being > everything that a Mutant/Human has seen, heard of, or known of until Heroes Reborn: The Return, since otherwise it wouldn't be considered unprecedented. Which essentially soldifies Franklin as being the indisputed goat, considering all the BS Mutants/Humanity has known of considering how often they are involved in ludicrous crap since the beginning of Marvel up until then (With honorary mention going to Doctor Strange who is still very much human).

That's fricking horrifying
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
I... realized something horrifying after the dreaded shower thoughts. 'Unprecedented in humanity's/mutant's history' doesn't just mean what humanity/mutant has seen capable of acheiving by themselves, but also what they've seen, known of, or heard of, as that would count as part of their history too. Oh god. That essentially guarantees Heroes Reborn: The Return Franklin as not only being > Everything that a Human/Mutant has ever achieved up until Heroes Reborn: The Return, but also being > everything that a Mutant/Human has seen, heard of, or known of until Heroes Reborn: The Return, since otherwise it wouldn't be considered unprecedented. Which essentially soldifies Franklin as being the indisputed goat, considering all the BS Mutants/Humanity has known of considering how often they are involved in ludicrous crap since the beginning of Marvel up until then (With honorary mention going to Doctor Strange who is still very much human).

That's fricking horrifying
Click to expand...
So.... Should he scale above TOAA because Peter saw him?
 
Guys, Gwenpool updates, it is canon that her having a page on our wiki counts as an additional form of immortality for her.
 
She basically says she lives and will live indefinitely in any real-world time as long as someone reads her book (She references 2018, 2020, 2025...) but also through every video game, fanfiction, fan art and even twitter roleplay accounts. (among many other things)
For how jokey it its, this is a whole page of pure exposition by a grown adult, imho, making it totally canon because that's literally her power.
 
SamanPatou said:
She basically says she lives and will live indefinitely in any real-world time as long as someone reads her book (She references 2018, 2020, 2025...) but also through every video game, fanfiction, fan art and even twitter roleplay accounts. (among many other things)
For how jokey it its, this is a whole page of pure exposition by a grown adult, imho, making it totally canon because that's literally her power.
Click to expand...
Then we working with the assumption that the real world is part of Marvel?
 
I mean, the Unbelievable Gwenpool book features references to the real world in a very consistent way, much more than any snarky callback or neat reference, it's not even breaking the fourth wall anymore.
However, Gwenpool's real world realm is probably part of that "Mystery" which lies beyond TOAA themselves and which they mention. It's basically an even higher and beyond realm so unreachable that doesn't influence anything, because we already accept that there's something beyond, since it comes out of TOAA's very mouth.
 
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