Vegeta fights Piccolo... again (0-0-0)

[Vizer04]

Versions: Pre-Nail Piccolo | Third Zenkai Vegeta

Location: Planet Namek

Vegeta:

Piccolo:

Inconclusive:

 

[WarriorofMite]

3rd Zenkai Vegeta should be the one that fought first form Frieza comparatively. so he's around 530k.
Post-Nail Piccolo was able to force 2nd form Frieza to transform into his third form to overpower Piccolo. Frieza stated his power was over a million in that form. So, Pre-Nail Piccolo has to be around 1/2 as strong as Post-Nail Piccolo or else he ends up weaker. How much stronger did Piccolo get from absorbing Nail?

 

[Vizer04]

How much stronger did Piccolo get from absorbing Nail?

x5 times increase

 

[WarriorofMite]

So if 2nd form Frieza is over a million and we are generous and say that his power level is 1.5 million, divided by 5 = 300k for Pre-Nail Piccolo. Versus 500k+ for Vegeta. Seems like the gap is way too big. Plus Vegeta and the Z fighters were constantly rising in power. Looks like Piccolo gets wrecked here.

 

[Vizer04]

So if 2nd form Frieza is over a million and we are generous and say that his power level is 1.5 million, divided by 5 = 300k for Pre-Nail Piccolo. Versus 500k+ for Vegeta. Seems like the gap is way too big. Plus Vegeta and the Z fighters were constantly rising in power. Looks like Piccolo gets wrecked here.

Could the Special Beam Cannon give him an advantage?

 

[FireSwordHero]

Could the Special Beam Cannon give him an advantage?

Possibly, but that banks on the assumption that Vegeta would allow Piccolo to charge long enough to be capable of ending him. A big problem with the Special Beam Cannon is that it requires some time to charge, often requiring external help in order to properly use it by providing a distraction, such as when Piccolo and Goku first fought Raditz.

Ironically, if this was Anime Piccolo vs Vegeta, then you could make an arguement that Piccolo could use the SBC by creating clones to distract Vegeta. But as this is the canon version, I don't think that will happen here.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bumping for interest

 

[Peppersalt43]

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[DivineAura44]

So if 2nd form Frieza is over a million and we are generous and say that his power level is 1.5 million, divided by 5 = 300k for Pre-Nail Piccolo. Versus 500k+ for Vegeta. Seems like the gap is way too big. Plus Vegeta and the Z fighters were constantly rising in power. Looks like Piccolo gets wrecked here.

Not how PLs work on the site. You are assuming the numbers are linear.

 

[Peppersalt43]

Uh, bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

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[Peppersalt43]

bump

 

[Mickey1940]

Not how PLs work on the site. You are assuming the numbers are linear.

the numbers are linear in the Namek saga

Goku went from 3 million to 150 million with Super Saiyan, a form that is accepted as a x50 increase

yes in original dragon ball power levels are definitely not linear but every guidebook in and past the namek saga debunks it

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Nah, ALL PLs are linear, the world just isn’t ready for High 6-A regular humans.

 

[Mickey1940]

Nah, ALL PLs are linear, the world just isn’t ready for High 6-A regular humans.

yeah lmao

master roshi with a PL of 139 blows up moon

regular human with a power level of 5 can hit with 1 exaton of force

 

[DivineAura44]

yes in original dragon ball power levels are definitely not linear but every guidebook in and past the namek saga debunks it

You unfortunately have to prove there is a difference in the Namek Saga that all of a sudden makes power levels reliable. The Kaioken is introduced (and properly linear with power levels) in the same saga that humans are supposedly casual mountain busters. We can't act like a new saga being introduced all of a sudden changes the concept of power levels as a whole.

 

[Mickey1940]

You unfortunately have to prove there is a difference in the Namek Saga that all of a sudden makes power levels reliable. The Kaioken is introduced (and properly linear with power levels) in the same saga that humans are supposedly casual mountain busters. We can't act like a new saga being introduced all of a sudden changes the concept of power levels as a whole.

because VS Battles Wiki as a website uses the Daizenshuu as evidence that the Super Saiyan Multiplier is x50

because no other form of media states that Super Saiyan is x50

and the only reason why the Daizenshuu says Super Saiyan is x50 is because it made Goku's power level go from 3 million to 150 million

do I need to prove anything else

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

It sorta also needs to be an above x40 multiplier for the whole 100% Frieza thing to make any sense.

 

[DivineAura44]

because VS Battles Wiki as a website uses the Daizenshuu as evidence that the Super Saiyan Multiplier is x50

because no other form of media states that Super Saiyan is x50

and the only reason why the Daizenshuu says Super Saiyan is x50 is because it made Goku's power level go from 3 million to 150 million

do I need to prove anything else

You are proving my point. The site doesn't assume that PLs are linear, it accepts multipliers based on sources (like the Daizenshuu for example). Does the Daizenshuu state that Frieza is 5x stronger than Piccolo?

 

[Mickey1940]

You are proving my point. The site doesn't assume that PLs are linear, it accepts multipliers based on sources (like the Daizenshuu for example). Does the Daizenshuu state that Frieza is 5x stronger than Piccolo?

are you saying that despite:

Super Saiyan directly causing a character to be 50 times stronger by multiplying their power level by 50 times

the site doesn't accept that power levels are linear?

despite this very linear interaction?

Goku becomes 50 times stronger, and as a result, his power level is increased by 50 times

if power levels weren't linear then this would be incorrect because the math wouldn't be this perfect

 

[DivineAura44]

My guy, you cannot take every example that works to your argument to support your claim while simultaneously ignoring everything else.

Yes I acknowledge that Goku's Super Saiyan, Goku's Kaioken, Frieza's transformations, etc. all point to power levels being linear.

You are failing to acknowledge obvious things which point to non-linearity between power levels however.
Farmer has a PL of 5, despite Roshi's reading of 180 being enough to be moon level.
And despite 180 being the necessary requirement for moon, it only takes a power level of 10,000 to destroy a planet.

Power levels being linear isn't necessarily false all the time, but it is too inconsistent to be making broad claims like "power levels are linear in all of Namek Saga" when there is no proof of this being true.

 

[Mickey1940]

My guy, you cannot take every example that works to your argument to support your claim while simultaneously ignoring everything else.

Yes I acknowledge that Goku's Super Saiyan, Goku's Kaioken, Frieza's transformations, etc. all point to power levels being linear.

You are failing to acknowledge obvious things which point to non-linearity between power levels however.
Farmer has a PL of 5, despite Roshi's reading of 180 being enough to be moon level.
And despite 180 being the necessary requirement for moon, it only takes a power level of 10,000 to destroy a planet.

Power levels being linear isn't necessarily false all the time, but it is too inconsistent to be making broad claims like "power levels are linear in all of Namek Saga" when there is no proof of this being true.

I can't argue with that ngl, there's no other proof of pl being linear

but wouldn't that mean that the super saiyan multiplier, as well as every other Daizenshuu pl math, should be rejected?

The only reason why those multipliers are accepted on this wiki (at least to my knowledge) is because of the multiplicative pl boosts stated by the Daizenshuu for both Goku and Frieza

So in those specific examples, power levels are linear

But in every other situation where power levels are given in the series, it's not

doesn't that cause a huge inconsistency problem?

 

[Peppersalt43]

Uh, bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

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[Peppersalt43]

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[StekFence]

Freezas profile makes it seem his pl is doubled, so that would put piccolo at around 400,000. Honestly, he still prob would get cooked

 

[Peppersalt43]

Uh, bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

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[Peppersalt43]

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[Peppersalt43]

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[Random-Helper323]

We don't know what units Power Levels are measured in or how they're scaled, so it's possible that the ratio changes as the number gets bigger too. Maybe it's exponential at lower levels but evens out to seem more linear at higher levels. The simple yet always annoying answer is that we don't know enough, and the even more annoying answer is that the author probably just wrote out whatever Power Level he thought suited the characters at the time, meaning there likely is no real answer.

Anyway, with absorbing Nail being the equivalent of a tenth of the Super Saiyan transformation, and larger than the boost from Super Saiyan 2 to Super Saiyan 3, it's definitely an enormous boost. I'm leaning towards 3rd Zenkai Vegeta being stronger at this point, prior to Piccolo absorbing Nail.

 

[Peppersalt43]

uh, bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump