(2-0-0) Giorno vs Anubis

[TheRadiantSoul]

Speed Equalized.
Giorno's first key is used.
GER Is Restricted.
Anubis has control of Chakka at the start of the fight.
Battle takes place in a vast empty dessert.
Starting distance is 15 meters.

Anubis: @Detective_Blizzard, @DaReaperMan.

Giorno:

Incon:

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

1. the Anubis profile just redirects to Giorno lol

2. Something to immediately note is that Anubis is going to have the advantage for the entire fight due to his constant speed amps, with the option to just bliz Giorno into oblivion should he release Chariot's armor

3. Apparently Polnareff and Anubis are Large Building level compared to Giorno's building level, and Anubis only gets stronger after that. Giorno's only possible advantages are his creations attack reflecting back to Anubis (which Anubis could simply counter via skill + his signature selective intangibility) and his life giver power perception stuff which likely could also be indirectly countered by Anubis just speed amping himself to a point where the alter perception just doesn't matter anymore

Assuming this isn't just an outright stomp, I vote Anubis

 

[DavidTPPM]

1. the Anubis profile just redirects to Giorno lol

2. Something to immediately note is that Anubis is going to have the advantage for the entire fight due to his constant speed amps, with the option to just bliz Giorno into oblivion should he release Chariot's armor

3. Apparently Polnareff and Anubis are Large Building level compared to Giorno's building level, and Anubis only gets stronger after that. Giorno's only possible advantages are his creations attack reflecting back to Anubis (which Anubis could simply counter via skill + his signature selective intangibility) and his life giver power perception stuff which likely could also be indirectly countered by Anubis just speed amping himself to a point where the alter perception just doesn't matter anymore

Assuming this isn't just an outright stomp, I vote Anubis

One important thing to note is that this is a JoJo fight after all. Giorno has the usual genius level jjba MC intelligence. Giorno will most likely catch Anubis offguard with his reflection and might win that way.

Also idk what the AP difference actually is value wise, but Giorno is said to scale to Bruno who can stagger and lightly harm King Crimson. Same KS one tapped and destroyed Silver Chariot. Basically meaning Giorno should be at least relatively close to Anubis/Polnaref and should be able to damage him with a direct muda barrage

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

One important thing to note is that this is a JoJo fight after all. Giorno has the usual genius level jjba MC intelligence. Giorno will most likely catch Anubis offguard with his reflection and might win that way.

Also idk what the AP difference actually is value wise, but Giorno is said to scale to Bruno who can stagger and lightly harm King Crimson. Same KS one tapped and destroyed Silver Chariot. Basically meaning Giorno should be at least relatively close to Anubis/Polnaref and should be able to damage him with a direct muda barrage

The attack reflection at best will only work one, and at worst never work since Anubis in character ignores everything except his desired target anyway (phasing through animals in order to land a hit)

As for the AP difference, they are just downscaling from King Crimson but even assuming they are peak 8-C Silver Chariot would be several times more durable than Gold Experience and Anubis' special ability will be constantly amping itself to further the distance between Giorno and itself. While he doesn't start in a state that completely stomps it's not going to take long for Anubis to reach that point

 

[TheRadiantSoul]

the Anubis profile just redirects to Giorno lol

Should be fixed now.

perception stuff which likely could also be indirectly countered by Anubis just speed amping himself to a point where the alter perception just doesn't matter anymore

How is Anubis going to buff itself when its perception is slowed to the point where time looks extremely slow to its host, to the point of delirium?

 

[TheRadiantSoul]

See, what I was thinking about when making this fight was what might happen if Gold Experience were to transmute the sword that Anubis has bound itself to, and if it could even do that.

I might also change the starting distance to, so Anubis doesn't stomp because of a blitz brought upon by speed amps.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

How is Anubis going to buff itself when its perception is slowed to the point where time looks extremely slow to its host, to the point of delirium?

Anubis doesn't buff himself consciously, it does so with every swing of the blade. Even with it's perception lowered it's just going to be swinging wilding causing the ability to ironically be more powerful than it was previously since he's not going to realize to stop. Basically he's going to unintentionally be amping himself like crazy while his perception speed gets better and better even with the life giver ability.

Which itself is questionable if Giorno could even land since Anubis isn't just going to let Giorno punch him and with the constant speed amps it's going to be next to impossible to do so unless Giorno goes for it almost immediately.

See, what I was thinking about when making this fight was what might happen if Gold Experience were to transmute the sword that Anubis has bound itself to, and if it could even do that.

Unlikey to work since Giorno transmutes inanimate objects which Anubis doesn't qualify as since it's a living sword.

Also changing the distance isn't going to help much since Anubis speed amps from attacking, it's going to start being faster than Giorno the moment they begin to actually clash

 

[Lort15]

Anubis FRA

 

[MintyBoi1]

Giorno has a chance at this distance, but he’s still not nearly on the level of speed or power as Polnareff. Anubis had Jotaro on the ropes, so Golden Experience can really only hope to snipe Anubis with life creation or turn the sword itself into something. Still, I think having Anubis possessing Polnareff is too big an advantage, especially if it uses the sword firing technique which could catch Giorno off guard and kill him.

Voting Anubis.

 

[Chariot190]

One important thing to note is that this is a JoJo fight after all. Giorno has the usual genius level jjba MC intelligence. Giorno will most likely catch Anubis offguard with his reflection and might win that way.

Also idk what the AP difference actually is value wise, but Giorno is said to scale to Bruno who can stagger and lightly harm King Crimson. Same KS one tapped and destroyed Silver Chariot. Basically meaning Giorno should be at least relatively close to Anubis/Polnaref and should be able to damage him with a direct muda barrage

Gio is close to baseline 8-C, scales below Secco. SF can wind King Crimson, but SF itself is 8-C, it's just that he's high enough to catch King Crimson lacking. Which like, yeah, so could Chariot if given the chance, Diavolo himself even says this.

We're talking like the gap between Mike Tyson in his prime and just some boxer. Like yeah the boxer could maybe make Mike wince or daze him for a second if caught off guard type of deal, but Mike would still, ya know, ******* kill him with a blow to the head.

Like let's not forget, GE downscales off SF, who himself barely passes, we see what King Crimson Vs. GE looks like, shit ain't even close.

Unlikey to work since Giorno transmutes inanimate objects which Anubis doesn't qualify as since it's a living sword.

It would work. Anubis is a Stand bound to a sword, the sword has special and enhanced properties, but it's still a sword. But it wouldn't matter really, GE isn't touching Anubis in a way that'd enable him to actually transmutate, he'd just get his hands chopped off.

How is Anubis going to buff itself when its perception is slowed to the point where time looks extremely slow to its host, to the point of delirium?

It wouldn't, at all, ignoring how Gio actually stopped using that post-black sabbath because it nearly got him killed, and thus wouldn't really lead with it at all (Remember, this ability isn't passive, Gio has to manually inject life energy to overload, a quick punch is enough, but he has to choose to do it, in said punch), but, Anubis wouldn't be effected. If he injected life energy into Pol's body, why would that matter? Pol isn't conscious, it would do nothing because it isn't Pol's body that's in control, but Anubis who's puppeting him, but Anubis isn't "in" Pol's body, he's in the sword.

Speed amps don't matter. GE and Gio can barely even react to King Crimson, and I mean that, even with Polnareff, ironically, warning Gio, all Gio could do was barely turn around and begin to defend himself, in the time it took King Crimson to move multiple meters and punch his arm off.


Anubis' speed amps, reactive in nature, he won' get any quicker through the fight because he isn't adapting to any speed, he's already quicker, by quite a bit really.

Gio does have means to win, attack reflection and he just wins, which given his foe is using what seems to be a physical weapon he migght actually be inclined, the problem is, would Anubis even bother hitting the created creature? Remember it can phase, in fact, it even phased through a cow to slash someone on the other end. Giorno might have to trick him into hitting something, which is entirely possible, he could do it, but could he do it before Anubis is up his ass? Because once they get in CQC, Gio dies. As a side note, don't forget Anubis' hosts have superhuman movement speed too, we see with Chaka he moves like a blur.

Anubis Chaka would be way more fair.

 

[Demifiend]

This is a huge stomp for anubis

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Anubis' speed amps, reactive in nature, he won' get any quicker through the fight because he isn't adapting to any speed, he's already quicker, by quite a bit really.

I don't believe it's ever stated that Anubis' amps are from his adaptation and his profile lists them as entirely separate abilities (if it was the same it'd just be reactive evolution). So yeah he just amps himself physically

 

[DRW001]

change to Anubis Chaka and we have a match

 

[DavidTPPM]

As for the AP difference, they are just downscaling from King Crimson but even assuming they are peak 8-C Silver Chariot would be several times more durable than Gold Experience

I feel like this type of thinking for an in-universe match is really silly. Giorno scaling to someone that can hurt KS when KS one tapped Pollnaref should easily make their stats comparable. Looking at the values gives us a completely different result than the series itself.

Not saying it's necessarily wrong in the context of the wikis rules but it logically doesn't make sense.

 

[Chariot190]

I don't believe it's ever stated that Anubis' amps are from his adaptation and his profile lists them as entirely separate abilities (if it was the same it'd just be reactive evolution). So yeah he just amps himself physically

Well the profile is dogshit because they explicitly do state that.
A bunch, in both the manga and every guide, I'm not sure why we should pretend otherwise.

As an aside, the gap between GE and Anubis Pol is like 28x. 42x post CRT. Dude just dies.

 

[TheRadiantSoul]

Aight I am also going to vote for Anubis. I might switch to Anubis Chaka if enough people want it.

 

[Unknownnah]

Anubis Pol vs GE:

 

[Chariot190]

I feel like this type of thinking for an in-universe match is really silly. Giorno scaling to someone that can hurt KS when KS one tapped Pollnaref should easily make their stats comparable. Looking at the values gives us a completely different result than the series itself.

Lad. Anubis Pol isn't = Chariot, he's almost Plat lv, and is well and beyond Chariot (Anubis Khan, was already was stronger than Chariot).


This is what a casual blow from dudes on that level do to GE.

 

[TheRadiantSoul]

This is a huge stomp for anubis

I disagree. Giorno can win if he tricks Anubis into attacking one of the Transmuted creatures or finds a way to transmute the sword.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

I feel like this type of thinking for an in-universe match is really silly. Giorno scaling to someone that can hurt KS when KS one tapped Pollnaref should easily make their stats comparable. Looking at the values gives us a completely different result than the series itself.

Not saying it's necessarily wrong in the context of the wikis rules but it logically doesn't make sense.

Logically it still makes sense because King Crimson itself is noticeably stronger than Stickey Fingers and it got its Silver Chariot feat via suprise attack. So Silver Chariot having a very large advantage in the physical department is just a no-brainer

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

I disagree. Giorno can win if tricks Anubis into attacking one of the Transmuted creatures or finds a way to transmute the sword.

Practically a 0% chance for the transmute creatures since Anubis again just ignores everything except it's target to begin with.

Hell, could it even be considered a win condition if he does get transmuted. If he's still able to mind control then he could just rely on Silver Chariot itself to decimate Giorno normally

 

[Chariot190]

Yeah uh, change it Chaka. Chaka dowscales from Chariot as opposed to upscaling, upscaling again, upscaling again, and scaling to Plat basically, who can one shot GE with a tap, so the gap, while Chaka prob still has the advantage, at least GE isnt gonna explode on contact. Gio's win cons way to specific unless he has prior knowledge, and even then he has to get lucky because Anubis blitzes, one shots, and can also just ignore the animals given he's literally did that on screen as his first showing.

 

[Homie890]

As an aside, the gap between GE and Anubis Pol is like 28x. 42x post CRT. Dude just dies.

crt?

 

[TheRadiantSoul]

Practically a 0% chance for the transmute creatures since Anubis again just ignores everything except it's target to begin with.

If there is a say, a horde of mosquitoes all over the place and just one them touches the blade, The Host is going to die instantly. Anubis doesn't necessarily have to target the creatures for this to happen.

Hell, could it even be considered a win condition if he does get transmuted. If he's still able to mind control then he could just rely on Silver Chariot itself to decimate Giorno normally

Anubis won't be able to mind control then, cause he would be gone. If the Sword is turnt into a Banana or something it should free the host from its control, as the sword literally doesn't exist anymore.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Anubis FRA

 

[TheRadiantSoul]

Yeah uh, change it Chaka. Chaka dowscales from Chariot as opposed to upscaling, upscaling again, upscaling again, and scaling to Plat basically, who can one shot GE with a tap, so the gap, while Chaka prob still ha sthe advantage, at least GE isnt gonna explode on contact. Gio's win cons way to specific unless he has prior knowledge, and even then he has to get lucky because Anubis blitzes, one shots, and can also just ignore the animals given he's literally did that on screen as his first showing.

Ok. Should i also void all previous votes. Since most people think Anubis wins because of Chariots Superior AP and Speed?

 

[Chariot190]

Ok. Should i also void all previous votes. Since most people think Anubis wins because of Chariots Superior AP and Speed?

Yeah, this may as well be a completely different fight, Chaka is less skilled, fast, strong, and Gio has ore leeway now that he can like, live past being love tapped, meaning he can regen/heal.

 

[TheRadiantSoul]

Switching to Chakka. Lets see where this goes.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

If there is a say, a horde of mosquitoes all over the place and just one them touches the blade, The Host is going to die instantly. Anubis doesn't necessarily have to target the creatures for this to happen.

That's a highly specific scenario which technically wouldn't even work depending on how you look at it, since it only applies to insects, they need to touch the blade itself and not attack Polnareff (why would it go for a blade without any blood in it, even with Giorno commanding them), and it's entirely possible that aspect gets reflected back to Anubis directly who would be immune by proxy of being undead

Anubis won't be able to mind control then, cause he would be gone. If the Sword is turnt into a Banana or something it should free the host from its control, as the sword literally doesn't exist anymore.

I don't see why Anubis would be gone. If we are operating under the idea that Anubis isn't the sword and thus can be transmuted then the actual status of the sword wouldn't matter. If the sword is changed to a banana then Anubis is just bound to a banana then, if not then Anubis' sword should be classified an a animate object due to the possession.

Side note, is Giorno even immune to the attack reflection ability. Cause if Anubis' bound status is changed to an organic object then he could just end up getting buffed by proxy of Giorno literally being unable to counter attack him

 

[TheRadiantSoul]

it's entirely possible that aspect gets reflected back to Anubis directly who would be immune by proxy of being undead

Why do you think this will only be reflected onto Anubis and not the host?

That's a highly specific scenario which technically wouldn't even work depending on how you look at it, since it only applies to insects, they need to touch the blade itself and not attack Polnareff (why would it go for a blade without any blood in it, even with Giorno commanding them),

It doesn't even need to be a mosquito specifically. Any flying insect can potentially make contact with a surface, such as a blade. If there are multiple flying insects present, the likelihood increases that one of them will accidentally touch or land on the blade, we see it happen in the manga.

Depending on where the insects land, if any of them get slashed by the host wielding accidentally, the damage will be reflected back, slicing the host in half.

It's well within the realm of possibility that Giorno could strategically maneuver the insects, forcing the host to inadvertently step on an ant or slash away a mosquito, thus triggering the Attack Reflection and inflicting severe damage on themselves.

I am aware that Anubis wouldn't have any reason to attack the creatures in character, but he also wouldn't intentionally avoid stepping on a ant, he isn't aware of the Damage Reflection.

I have also switched to Anubis Chakka now. So Gold Experience no longer has to worry about being blitzed and oneshot by silver Chariot.

I don't see why Anubis would be gone. If we are operating under the idea that Anubis isn't the sword and thus can be transmuted then the actual status of the sword wouldn't matter. If the sword is changed to a banana then Anubis is just bound to a banana then, if not then Anubis' sword should be classified an a animate object due to the possession.

Why would Anubis's sword be classified a animate object just because the possession, that makes little sense. The sword's fundamental nature as an INORGANIC, non-living SWORD remains unchanged, regardless of the Stand's possession.

And we clearly see that Anubis possession depends on how much of the sword remains. Jotaro was able to free Polnareff just because the sword broke half.

If there was no sword at all, then it will either kill Anubis or at the very least free the host from Possession.

Side note, is Giorno even immune to the attack reflection ability. Cause if Anubis' bound status is changed to an organic object then he could just end up getting buffed by proxy of Giorno literally being unable to counter attack him

I don't know if Giorno is immune to the reflection. Probably not since he doesn't have Immunity to attack reflection on his profile.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Why do you think this will only be reflected onto Anubis and not the host?

My main reasoning is because it's a passive effect of Anubis rather than something the host does. So depending on interpretation it's pretty easy to place the blame of the attack entirely on the Anubis soul itself since that's what's causing the instant death

It doesn't even need to be a mosquito specifically. Any flying insect can potentially make contact with a surface, such as a blade. If there are multiple flying insects present, the likelihood increases that one of them will accidentally touch or land on the blade, we see it happen in the manga.

Yes, however if Giorno makes bugs then he's going to use it to either distract or to attack Chakka directly, them landing on the blade itself is a bit of a weird scenario and Giorno would use other creature types in order to attempt to attack reflect. Also other flies landing on it wouldn't matter since it's not the one Giorno made, it's either he consciously makes his insects land on the blade for some reason or he just doesn't.

It's well within the realm of possibility that Giorno could strategically maneuver the insects, forcing the host to inadvertently step on an ant or slash away a mosquito, thus triggering the Attack Reflection and inflicting severe damage on themselves.

I am aware that Anubis wouldn't have any reason to attack the creatures in character, but he also wouldn't intentionally avoid stepping on a ant, he isn't aware of the Damage Reflection.

Are these possible, yes. Are these likely for Giorno to do, god no. While Anubis could end up stepping on an ant or something, Giorno rarely ever makes insects with there only being 3 examples of him doing so with one of them not even being for combat purposes. None of those examples involved him using the attack reflection to cause an opponent to kill themselves via bug. Without any prior knowledge it's unlikely that Giorno would discover this death aspect of Anubis naturally.

Why would Anubis's sword be classified a animate object just because the possession, that makes little sense. The sword's fundamental nature as an INORGANIC, non-living SWORD remains unchanged, regardless of the Stand's possession.

Animate - bring to life;alive or having life.

The sword being inorganic doesn't matter, a robot for example would typically classify as an animate object or an undead zombie due to them being active creatures. A normal suit of armor or a regular corpse on the other hand would be inanimate due to a lack of life entirely. Since the sword has a active thinking spirit inside it, it is very simple to argue for it being classified as an animate object

And we clearly see that Anubis possession depends on how much of the sword remains. Jotaro was able to free Polnareff just because the sword broke half.

If there was no sword at all, then it will either kill Anubis or at the very least free the host from Possession.

That just did not happen lol, the Sword's been snapped in half and the possession worked just fine. Jotaro obliterated the handle of the blade which is what the possession to end, since Polnareff was no longer holding onto it. If Anubis were to get transmuted he'd still be in Polnareff's hands which means that the possession effect would still be active, the only criteria for it is that you must be holding Anubis.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Also, side note. Nothing is stopping Anubis from just mind haxing Giorno into wielding him even if Giorno wins the fight. Even under the assumption that transmuting Anubis would be a finishing move, Giorno in character is going to undo it and then fall victim to it's ability since nothing would imply it's effects. (Giorno would have brutally beaten/killed Chaka the moment he found an opening from Anubis deactivating)

 

[TheRadiantSoul]

My main reasoning is because it's a passive effect of Anubis rather than something the host does. So depending on interpretation it's pretty easy to place the blame of the attack entirely on the Anubis soul itself since that's what's causing the instant death

Fair. Though I personally think it will be reflected onto both Host and Anubis since the host is holding the weapon.

Yes, however if Giorno makes bugs then he's going to use it to either distract or to attack Chakka directly, them landing on the blade itself is a bit of a weird scenario and Giorno would use other creature types in order to attempt to attack reflect. Also other flies landing on it wouldn't matter since it's not the one Giorno made, it's either he consciously makes his insects land on the blade for some reason or he just doesn't.

I thought one insects would just eventually land on the blade on completely on accident due to the laws of probability, but Giorno can command them to. I don't know why you believe it has no chance of happening though.

Are these possible, yes. Are these likely for Giorno to do, god no. While Anubis could end up stepping on an ant or something, Giorno rarely ever makes insects with there only being 3 examples of him doing so with one of them not even being for combat purposes. None of those examples involved him using the attack reflection to cause an opponent to kill themselves via bug. Without any prior knowledge it's unlikely that Giorno would discover this death aspect of Anubis naturally.

I do believe Giorno will look for more creative ways to deal damage once he realizes he can barely harm Chakka with regular Muda punches. Keep in mind he has genius intelligence and is a skilled Tactician. Also, where does Chakka scale in terms of Durability.

Animate - bring to life;alive or having life.

The sword being inorganic doesn't matter, a robot for example would typically classify as an animate object or an undead zombie due to them being active creatures. A normal suit of armor or a regular corpse on the other hand would be inanimate due to a lack of life entirely. Since the sword has a active thinking spirit inside it, it is very simple to argue for it being classified as an animate object

He cannot transmute a zombie because it is still an organic life form. However, he can likely transmute a robot, as it is an inanimate, inorganic thing with no organic parts - just a collection of mechanisms designed to mimic movement. By definition, an inanimate object is something that is not alive, robots are not alive.

Are you trying to imply he can't animate anything with moving mechanisms? Cause that is untrue.

That just did not happen lol, the Sword's been snapped in half and the possession worked just fine. Jotaro obliterated the handle of the blade which is what the possession to end, since Polnareff was no longer holding onto it. If Anubis were to get transmuted he'd still be in Polnareff's hands which means that the possession effect would still be active, the only criteria for it is that you must be holding Anubis.

Okay, the point kind of still stands. Giorno could simply turn the sword into something that would easily fall out of the user's hands, like a bunch of leaves.

 

[TheRadiantSoul]

Also, side note. Nothing is stopping Anubis from just mind haxing Giorno into wielding him even if Giorno wins the fight. Even under the assumption that transmuting Anubis would be a finishing move, Giorno in character is going to undo it and then fall victim to it's ability since nothing would imply it's effects. (Giorno would have brutally beaten/killed Chaka the moment he found an opening from Anubis deactivating)

I don't believe Giorno would be stupid enough to undo the transmutation after he knows some kind of mind control Stand was attached to the sword. You are also assuming that Anubis itself would survive the transmutation or come back once it is undone. I don't see why he would though since he has no form of Resurrection.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

I thought one insects would just eventually land on the blade on completely on accident due to the laws of probability, but Giorno can command them to. I don't know why you believe it has no chance of happening though.

Because of the fact that Giorno would have to actively command them to land on a metal sword, which realistically provides 0 forms of advantage for him

I do believe Giorno will look for more creative ways to deal damage once he realizes he can barely harm Chakka with regular Muda punches. Keep in mind he has genius intelligence and is a skilled Tactician. Also, where does Chakka scale in terms of Durability.

Giorno can get more creative, but not only will Chaka be noticably stronger, faster, and more durable by the time he has to get creative, it's still a highly specific scenario he's have to do instead of literally every other option he could take.

As for the durability question, he's listed as being able to withstand the force of his blows. So likely is the exact same ballpark needed to put up a decent fight against Silver Chariot

He cannot transmute a zombie because it is still an organic life form. However, he can likely transmute a robot, as it is an inanimate, inorganic thing with no organic parts - just a collection of mechanisms designed to mimic movement. By definition, an inanimate object is something that is not alive, robots are not alive.

That's the neat part, you're wrong. Giorno literally can turn corpses and biological body parts into animals. Organic and Inorganic life doesn't matter, animate objects are things capable of thinking and acting to some degree. A robot being alive itself is debatable depending on the type you are talking about but all robots would classify as animate objects because they are capable of action, that is what it means.

Also, notice how your definition only lists inactive things. Hell one of the bullet points below it says "An inanimate object is a thing that is not living or that does not move on its own". And before you try to play semantics, no Anubis being a stationary sword doesn't disqualify him either, him having cognizance is what classifies it.

Are you trying to imply he can't animate anything with moving mechanisms? Cause that is untrue.

An item with moving mechanisms is different from an animate object. This is just getting into semantics at this point and I wish someone else was here to back me up on this back and forth lol.

Okay, the point kind of still stands. Giorno could simply turn the sword into something that would easily fall out of the user's hands, like a bunch of leaves.

Giorno has only done a situation like that once, and that was only when he altered the Stand Arrow into getting it out of Diavolo's hands..... and he didn't even turn the entire thing into an object and instead broke it in half (which wouldn't have much effect on Anubis)

I don't believe Giorno would be stupid enough to undo the transmutation after he knows some kind of mind control Stand was attached to the sword. You are also assuming that Anubis itself would survive the transmutation or come back once it is undone. I don't see why he would though since he has no form of Resurrection.

Why would he know that the sword is a mind controlling stand. There is no reason to believe that and he'd beat Chaka senseless before he had any indication of a change.

And you have no proof that the transmutation would kill or end the possession effect of Anubis. You are both claiming that the sword isn't alive and that Anubis is just bound to it, which means he isn't directly tied enough to it to be considered animate or 'alive' to begin with. Yet you are also claiming that he is so tied to the sword that the mere alteration of it would kill him (despite the fact that he doesn't suffer much from the blade actually being broken). It's a contradiction of facts

 

[Chariot190]

Side note, is Giorno even immune to the attack reflection ability. Cause if Anubis' bound status is changed to an organic object then he could just end up getting buffed by proxy of Giorno literally being unable to counter attack him

Well, Gio can literally just turn him back to a sword. He can untransmutate stuff to be fair, something he can and has done multiple times.

If the sword is changed to a banana then Anubis is just bound to a banana then, if not then Anubis' sword should be classified an a animate object due to the possession.

Why wouldn't Gio turn it to like, a animal or something that he has control over.

Why do you think this will only be reflected onto Anubis and not the host?

Well, Anubis is the dude hitting him right? And Pol/Chaka/Khan isn't actually Anubis' main body, he's just possessed. It's like when Echoes attacked GE's tree, it got reflected back to Echoes, then Koichi. Because attacked it, and because Echoes is Koichi's Stand, stand bullshit kicked in.

Fair. Though I personally think it will be reflected onto both Host and Anubis since the host is holding the weapon.

Not how it works. Anubis is inflicting the damage. It'd reflect to him, but, because the host isn't actually tied to him in the way a Stand usually is (This is blatantly obvious, it's why Plat could smash the shit out of Anubis nd Khan and Pol were fine despite being possessed), the damage wouldn't reflect off Anubis, onto the host.

I thought one insects would just eventually land on the blade on completely on accident due to the laws of probability, but Giorno can command them to. I don't know why you believe it has no chance of happening though.

Well, to be fair, Anubis has phasing, he can and does phase.


As just a couple examples, Anubis in character actively uses his phasing to avoid everything but the target, the fact he even goes as far to avoid Pol's shirt, says a lot.

I do believe Giorno will look for more creative ways to deal damage once he realizes he can barely harm Chakka with regular Muda punches. Keep in mind he has genius intelligence and is a skilled Tactician.

While true, Gio also needs to be given the chance to do so.

Also, where does Chakka scale in terms of Durability.

Same as his AP more or less, Anubis stat buffs.

He cannot transmute a zombie because it is still an organic life form. However, he can likely transmute a robot, as it is an inanimate, inorganic thing with no organic parts - just a collection of mechanisms designed to mimic movement. By definition, an inanimate object is something that is not alive, robots are not alive.

No, he could transmutate a zombie going by the actual rules of his Stand.


The only rule, is that they can not be alive.
Organic matter, he can transmuate just fine. We see it constantly, from Bruno's tooth, to even his own blood, the only rule is that it can't be "alive".

Okay, the point kind of still stands. Giorno could simply turn the sword into something that would easily fall out of the user's hands, like a bunch of leaves.

Could he though.
We've only ever seen him turn things, into other things, not turn something into a bunch of things.
He could probably turn the sword into a plant or something easy to break, but no real reason to assume he could turn the sword into a bunch of seperate objects.

 

[Chariot190]

For the record, Anubis should be fair game. The sword is still just a sword, he's bound to it, but not only is Anubis a post-mortem Stand like literally BIG, but Stands by themselves aren't fundamentally "alive" in a vacuum, Anubis being literally a Stand, that's already dead, bound to a non-living object, should make it fair game going by GE's rules in what he can and can not transmutate.

The problem here is GE has to like, actually make physical contact with the sword, and I don't see that happening without him losing the very hands he needs to perform this ability, as established in BIG. So even if he can do it, doing so has such extreme risk that he'd be kind of stupid to even attempt it.

Edit: For the record, I'm saying Anubis would be a canonical outlier, GE can't transmutate most Stands becase they're comprised of the main body's life force in a spiritual sense as we're all aware of, Anubis, no longer follows that thin line, his host is dead, and those he posseses, don't actually become his main body.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Well, Gio can literally just turn him back to a sword. He can untransmutate stuff to be fair, something he can and has done multiple times.

I mean yeah he can, but that just goes back to the original problem and doesn't solve his dilemma lol. If he turns the sword back then Anubis isn't going to fall for that trick again.

Why wouldn't Gio turn it to like, a animal or something that he has control over.

I highly doubt that would work since Anubis is a thinking object. There's no reason why Giorno's control would override his or that the animal would gain a secondary conscious since Anubis is already inhabiting it (even if it did it could end up like a Doppio situation and I'm betting on Anubis winning that soul dominance fight LOL)

No, he could transmutate a zombie going by the actual rules of his Stand.

Hold up, idgaf about the animate object argument lol. Going by that statement Anubis counters by proxy of being a stand LOL. His possesion would actively be negating that. Granted, that would cause Giorno to get suspicious of it which might make him more causious about touching it

The problem here is GE has to like, actually make physical contact with the sword, and I don't see that happening without him losing the very hands he needs to perform this ability, as established in BIG. So even if he can do it, doing so has such extreme risk that he'd be kind of stupid to even attempt it.

I do agree though that regardless of interpretation, Giorno has little chance to actually pull it off since the only moments he's going to have to transmute it are going to be the times Chaka is actively trying to slice him into pieces.

 

[Chariot190]

I mean yeah he can, but that just goes back to the original problem and doesn't solve his dilemma lol. If he turns the sword back then Anubis isn't going to fall for that trick again.

I never said it would. I'm saying he can do so, whether or not that enables him to win, isn't my concern/

I highly doubt that would work since Anubis is a thinking object. There's no reason why Giorno's control would override his or that the animal would gain a secondary conscious since Anubis is already inhabiting it (even if it did it could end up like a Doppio situation and I'm betting on Anubis winning that soul dominance fight LOL)

Except Anubis isn't a thinking object, he's a Stand, bound to a sword. The sword isn't him, it's just a sword created by his original main body whom was a blacksmith.

It's no different than Ebony Devil. It possesses objects, but those objects, are not the Stand.

There is no soul dominance situation here, Anubis isn't the sword, he's just bound to it, if that sword was turned into a snake for example, it isn't like that snake would have two souls. Of course you could maybe argue Anubis could possess the snake, but why would he do that, that'd just make him more vulnerable as he'd likely lose his control over chaka in the process.

Hold up, idgaf about the animate object argument lol. Going by that statement Anubis counters by proxy of being a stand LOL.

He's an undead Stand, the reason why GE can't affect Stands, is because they're, in and of themselves, a manifestion of one's life force. Anubis, is a post-mortem Stand, he's one of like 3 of the few hundred Stands that falls into a grey area, even worse, GE isn't transmutating Anubis, he's just effecting the object he'd be bound to.

His possesion would actively be negating that. Granted, that would cause Giorno to get suspicious of it which might make him more causious about touching it

His possession wouldn't negate anything?
This is like saying GE can't transmutate Mista's bullets because they contain Stand energy, yet we know he can.

I do agree though that regardless of interpretation, Giorno has little chance to actually pull it off since the only moments he's going to have to transmute it are going to be the times Chaka is actively trying to slice him into pieces.

I mean I don't think Gio is winning without prep or prior knowledge, but credit where credit is due and all that.

 

[Detective_Blizzard]

Except Anubis isn't a thinking object, he's a Stand, bound to a sword. The sword isn't him, it's just a sword created by his original main body whom was a blacksmith.

It's no different than Ebony Devil. It possesses objects, but those objects, are not the Stand.

There is no soul dominance situation here, Anubis isn't the sword, he's just bound to it, if that sword was turned into a snake for example, it isn't like that snake would have two souls. Of course you could maybe argue Anubis could possess the snake, but why would he do that, that'd just make him more vulnerable as he'd likely lose his control over chaka in the process.

Counterpoint, if that is the end result......... then where would Anubis actually be located. If he isn't the snake or can simply choose to not posses it then what, does he lose his entire weakness and just become one with Chaka? I just think it makes more sense for his binding to be passed onto whatever the sword is transmuted into since the item itself isn't considered destroyed in any way, just altered.

Also Giorno's profile does list the things he can transmute as inanimate objects so that would likely need to be changed in order for it to work on things like the previously mentioned zombies, though you did also mention the fact that stands aren't alive so I assume the part saying he can only effect inanimate objects is probably just true then, which I would still argue a possessed sword would count as animated.

His possession wouldn't negate anything?
This is like saying GE can't transmutate Mista's bullets because they contain Stand energy, yet we know he can.

That's not the same thing, since Mista's bullets aren't Sex Pistols themselves whereas Anubis is just far more direct about it.

Also, kinda surprised that there isn't a page or something regarding 'animate objects' considering how common of a topic point that is and how much confusion it can bring some people.