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Shigaraki Vs Blackbeard

If Shigaraki zones, he absorbs all his zoning attacks.
If Shigaraki stays in 1 place and dusts, Teach yanks him.
If Shigaraki has fun staying stagnant, Teach is going to flip the island and drown his ass.
If Shigaraki takes both his devil fruits he's blowing up.
I vote Teach
 
KingTempest said:
Teach pulls him.

Shigaraki isn't going to the other side of the solar system. His quakes are going to go hemispherical outwards towards the enemy.

See I would say this is wrong but we got a tier 5 thread about this and I actually like this matchup so imma let it pass

Pull him towards him and drown his ass while absorbing all the water in the vicinity so the fool don't drown.

You really want to tell me Shigaraki's just going to zone him, when that's not even in character
Click to expand...
He can’t see him through the hands

They go in one direction, he blasts to the other side of the battlefield in an instant with his movements

Shigaraki can 1. produce his own oxygen and would just adapt so he can breathe underwater with his multiple other mouths, 2. He’d beat the shit out of Teach and send him reeling in pain with every single scratch, bite, rip, punch and tear he sends at him from the infinite hands that will come with him if he gets pulled over, 3. That doesn’t solve the stalemate they’re in.

AFO is dominant to start and Shigaraki isn’t stupid. If they get pulled in, can’t take his Quirks and he negs their Quirks, they play long game and target his weaknesses with Search. If Shigaraki learns that BB is shunned by the sea and loses his powers in water he is cooked.

But ignoring that: the very first strategy they did, when their powers weren’t useful, was hand spam. Against someone comparable in strength who is dangerous in close quarters, they turtle and spam hands and ranged attacks while dodging with flight and Air Cannon boosts. BB is gonna be too preoccupied trying to destroy the infinite hand waves coming at him from every single angle to be trying to always go for Shigaraki.
 
KingTempest said:
If Shigaraki zones, he absorbs all his zoning attacks.
If Shigaraki stays in 1 place and dusts, Teach yanks him.
If Shigaraki has fun staying stagnant, Teach is going to flip the island and drown his ass.
If Shigaraki takes both his devil fruits he's blowing up.
I vote Teach
Click to expand...
Then Teach can’t beat him cause infinite hands and Shigaraki aims to get him in the water after learning his weakness with Search.

Shigaraki isn’t gonna stay in one place cause he and AFO aren’t dumb, they adapt on the fly.

He leaves the water and Teach cannot hold him down cause infinite hands and he breaths underwater with his multiple mouths from his infinite hands.

He can’t take them cause resistance from Haki.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
He can’t see him through the hands
Click to expand...
Kenbun goes crazy fr fr.
Kingofwolves999 said:
They go in one direction, he blasts to the other side of the battlefield in an instant with his movements
Click to expand...
They may go in one direction, but they clearly spread out from that direction.
Kingofwolves999 said:
He’d beat the shit out of Teach and send him reeling in pain with every single scratch, bite, rip, punch and tear he sends at him from the infinite hands that will come with him if he gets pulled over, 3. That doesn’t solve the stalemate they’re in.
Click to expand...
He gets fodderized by Dura Neg quakes the second he gets close.
Kingofwolves999 said:
AFO is dominant to start and Shigaraki isn’t stupid. If they get pulled in, can’t take his Quirks and he negs their Quirks, they play long game and target his weaknesses with Search. If Shigaraki learns that BB is shunned by the sea and loses his powers in water he is cooked.
Click to expand...
If he gets pulled in, there aint shit he can do. Blackbeard's gonna shatter his skull with a single Earthquake.
Kingofwolves999 said:
But ignoring that: the very first strategy they did, when their powers weren’t useful, was hand spam. Against someone comparable in strength who is dangerous in close quarters, they turtle and spam hands and ranged attacks while dodging with flight and Air Cannon boosts. BB is gonna be too preoccupied trying to destroy the infinite hand waves coming at him from every single angle to be trying to always go for Shigaraki.
Click to expand...
His darkness can spread and absorb omnidirectionally, so the hands get tossed. After the hands are done, Shigaraki is next, and not only can he not escape, but the second he gets in there he's gets Madness Maniped gg.
 
Who said Haki resists power absorption?

Teach does not need to hold him down. He needs to pull him with his devil fruit's attraction ability.

If the method of Shigaraki making new mouths or oxygen is through a quirk, that's getting put down too.

Teach can hurt him through the new limbs via shockwaves, which will propagate through his body.
 
I actually can’t believe “drown him” was just uttered like bro can’t make his own oxygen or has infinite mouths that connect to his main body.

Teach CANNOT hold Shigaraki down when he has infinite hands ripping into his body while Shigaraki is still fighting him. 6-B attacks send BB reeling, imagine that + infinite hands and mouths tearing into his orifices and scratching at him.
Da3ggman said:
Kenbun goes crazy fr fr.

They may go in one direction, but they clearly spread out from that direction.

He gets fodderized by Dura Neg quakes the second he gets close.

If he gets pulled in, there aint shit he can do. Blackbeard's gonna shatter his skull with a single Earthquake.

His darkness can spread and absorb omnidirectionally, so the hands get tossed. After the hands are done, Shigaraki is next, and not only can he not escape, but the second he gets in there he's gets Madness Maniped gg.
Click to expand...
Search goes crazy too and if he tries that Shigaraki keeps spamming hands. He literally cannot stop the hand spam with anything he has other than attacking them, and he can’t do every single ability he has at once when he’s getting attacked from all sides.

Also when has BB ever pulled someone through hundreds of meters of flesh.

Good thing Shigaraki can blast across hundred of kilometers in an instant with his AM level travel speed that Teach is equalized to.

He doesn’t get close and spams hands even if he does so Teach can’t.

Infinite hands decaying him say gg if he takes his focus off of them slamming into and attacking him

Hands are infinite and will spread bigger than his darkness so that doesn’t mean anything. Shigaraki just constantly produces them forever and they stalemate until the whole island is destroyed.

KingTempest said:
Who said Haki resists power absorption?

Teach does not need to hold him down. He needs to pull him with his devil fruit's attraction ability.

If the method of Shigaraki making new mouths or oxygen is through a quirk, that's getting put down too.

Teach can hurt him through the new limbs via shockwaves, which will propagate through his body.
Click to expand...
Thought Haki resisted everything from how it’s being claimed to resist anything not listed down.

He pulls him and then what, Shigaraki just blasts away at sub rel travel speed

It’s through his hands and biology, not a Quirk, he cannot be drowned in this way. That’s part of his reactive evolution, same as his fingers, he can make any body part he wants infinitely and it will function perfectly for him.

The limbs are a writhing mass of flesh that he controls, he does not feel pain from them and can ditch them when he needs to to spam even more.
 
Honestly if BB tries to drown Shigaraki, Shigaraki just moves the water from himself through his hands and at BB. Because the flesh did the same with poison so it would just take the water away.

He knows BB is weak to seawater from Search so that is literally the worst thing for him to do.

If anything he’d shove his hands into the ocean, make an infinite amount of mouths and spew water at BB permanently while still destroying the island.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Thought Haki resisted everything from how it’s being claimed to resist anything not listed down.
Click to expand...
Resists the abilities given off by all devil fruits, some including decon like stated above. Not power absorption.
Kingofwolves999 said:
He pulls him and then what, Shigaraki just blasts away at sub rel travel speed
Click to expand...
He has gravity manipulation. He's not blasting away from anything. He's going to constantly be pulled, AKA can't move
Kingofwolves999 said:
It’s through his hands and biology, not a Quirk, he cannot be drowned in this way. That’s part of his reactive evolution, same as his fingers, he can make any body part he wants infinitely and it will function perfectly for him.

The limbs are a writhing mass of flesh that he controls, he does not feel pain from them and can ditch them when he needs to to spam even more.
Click to expand...
I don't see why him sending quakes through his body is stopped by any of that. He can ditch them but the damage is done.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
His physical strength is not power nulled, his base travel speed is sub rel
Click to expand...
Blackbeard has around 2x superior LS. Shigaraki is not getting away. The gravity powerful enough that even light can't escape. Even if he does somehow escape Blackbeard's grasp, he'd just get pulled in again.
 
BB’s power null is only touch based. If he touches Shigaraki, he is getting pummeled by thousands of hands. If he tries to shockwave Shigaraki, Shigaraki dodges with his hundred of kilometer traveling speed. Shigaraki knows he is weak to water.

Half the arguments against Shigaraki are just different flavors of the same thing that ignore how Shigaraki operates
KingTempest said:
Resists the abilities given off by all devil fruits, some including decon like stated above. Not power absorption.

He has gravity manipulation. He's not blasting away from anything. He's going to constantly be pulled, AKA can't move

I don't see why him sending quakes through his body is stopped by any of that. He can ditch them but the damage is done.
Click to expand...
So he resists power absorption cause his fruit literally has that power.

Then Teach gets slapped in the face by infinite hands and mouths before Shigaraki even gets close to him.

If he sees Teach quaking the air then he dodges to the other side of the battefield. Shockwaves have to travel and the ones on his body will be destroyed but his main self will be barely hit with any of it or just adapt or just survive it because he’s been hit with far worse, organ destroying, brain obliterating, internal annihilating attacks than vibrations. And that will only ever work the first time, every time after that he never lets his hands stay connected when the quakes happens.

If Shigaraki never stops spamming hands while bouncing around and dodging with his superior travel speed what does BB do.

If Shigaraki starts bringing large amounts of sea water to BB to drown him on land what does he do.

If Shigaraki sends his fingers underwater and decays all of Marineford because decay continues regardless if he’s still touching the ground or not, what does BB do.

BB can’t pull him through hundreds of meters of flesh to my knowledge, he can’t hit him with Quakes cause Shigaraki dodges and can cut his limbs away before he takes any residual vibrations (which haven’t been shown to be enough to actually hurt other characters btw), he can’t drown him and Shigaraki knows his weakness while having infinite limb spam.
Kachon123 said:
Blackbeard has around 2x superior LS. Shigaraki is not getting away. The gravity powerful enough that even light can't escape. Even if he does somehow escape Blackbeard's grasp, he'd just get pulled in again.
Click to expand...
Again: infinite hands hit BB far before Shigaraki will. He pulls him and Shigaraki just makes an infinite wall of limbs that BB will be pulling towards himself well before Shigaraki gets to him.
 
Kachon123 said:
Those hands get absorbed.
Click to expand...
KingTempest said:
I don't think you understand that Blackbeard can literally put all of those hands in a pocket dimension
Click to expand...
From Black Hole which is on the ground or from a big dome of darkness. When has BB done Black Vortex from inside that dome, because that’s the only way the limbs get absorbed since they will not be on the ground. He has never pulled and done the big dome while still pulling, and especially difficult will be doing that when Shigaraki is hidden behind hundreds of meters of hands that he has to get though first.

Only time I’ve seen BB absorb something with his hand is WB’s fruit power which these hands are not.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
How does he do that through the hundreds of meters of hands, and has he ever directly sent something to his pocket dimension from Dark Vortex.
Click to expand...
Why are we putting limiters on something that hasn't shown to have the limit you're claiming it has. Blackbeard's DARKNESS can pull things into its POCKET DIMENSION with its GRAVITATIONAL PULL. Dark Vortex is made of his DARKNESS meaning he can do the same with it.
 
Kachon123 said:
Why are we putting limiters on something that hasn't shown to have the limit you're claiming it has. Blackbeard's DARKNESS can pull things into its POCKET DIMENSION with its GRAVITATIONAL PULL. Dark Vortex is made of his DARKNESS meaning he can do the same with it.
Click to expand...
He has ONLY ever done that with Black Hole. That’s literally its function, to drag things into his pocket dimension, Black Vortex is a completely different technique. Prove that he can send you to his pocket dimension with Black Vortex.

He did Black Vortex on Luffy and just grabbed him. He did Black Vortex on Ace and just punched him.

Black Vortex is CLEARLY not a move he uses if he wants to pull someone into his pocket dimension. Prove it is.
 
Kachon123 said:
Not going to entertain the idea that Blackbeard's darkness doesn't do what Blackbeard's darkness was stated to be able to do.
Click to expand...
I’m not saying it doesn’t, I’m saying his Black Vortex isn’t a move that sends people to his dimension. It uses gravity to pull people towards HIM. He uses it to get people closer to him, it does NOT send them to the pocket dimension even if he grabs them.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
I’m not saying it doesn’t, I’m saying his Black Vortex isn’t a move that sends people to his dimension. It uses gravity to pull people towards HIM. He uses it to get people closer to him, it does NOT send them to the pocket dimension even if he grabs them.
Click to expand...
Why would he ever send someone to a pocket dimension in a fight? All the times he used Black Vortex, he used it to set up another attack. If Blackbeard is in the middle of pulling Shigaraki and he send hundreds on hands, he'd just absorb them with the same Black Vortex. It's not that hard of a concept to understand.
 
Kachon123 said:
Why would he ever send someone to a pocket dimension in a fight? All the times he used Black Vortex, he used it to set up another attack. If Blackbeard is in the middle of pulling Shigaraki and he send hundreds on hands, he'd just absorb them with the same Black Vortex. It's not that hard of a concept to understand.
Click to expand...
Are you joking? His pocket dimension is an instant win button, if he absorbs you in it then you are simply cooked. He literally does that move with Black Hole, he actively wants to suck things up and he has never displayed using Black Vortex in that way. You’re literally adding a power to his technique he has never shown. Black Vortex is used to set up other moves, it is not an ability that sends them to the pocket dimension directly. I am open to being shown otherwise from a scan or statement.
 
So to reiterate my points and… forget what was just typed above me.

1) Shigaraki knows BB’s weaknesses with Search and will seek to drown him by either destroying Marineford (something he can do with a few big attacks) or just literally throwing water at him with his infinite mouths that can transfer liquids.

2) Black Vortex can’t put people in the pocket dimension, or at least has never been shown to do so. This means BB can’t pull Shigaraki closer, as a mass of infinite hands will be pulled at him first and start attacking and burying him, forcing him to stop pulling.

3) Shigaraki has superior travel speed so he can dodge any Gura quakes and instantly spawn new walls of limbs when he’s out of the way, while continuing to destroy Marineford and bring Teach closer to the water

4) Decay destroys Marineford in seconds due to the help of his infinite fingers making it impossibly faster and further reaching, so most of this discussion is pointless anyway since Shigaraki starts the fight deleting the battlefield and dropping BB in the ocean since he knows that will affect him.
 
Kachon123 said:
Blackbeard has around 2x superior LS. Shigaraki is not getting away. The gravity powerful enough that even light can't escape. Even if he does somehow escape Blackbeard's grasp, he'd just get pulled in again.
Click to expand...
Also this is CAP that it’s that much of a difference. What value is BB scaling to for him to be 2x Complete Shigaraki? He massively upscales from the Class T calc on the verse page and Luffy’s calc isn’t even the higher one.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
From Black Hole which is on the ground or from a big dome of darkness. When has BB done Black Vortex from inside that dome, because that’s the only way the limbs get absorbed since they will not be on the ground. He has never pulled and done the big dome while still pulling, and especially difficult will be doing that when Shigaraki is hidden behind hundreds of meters of hands that he has to get though first.

Only time I’ve seen BB absorb something with his hand is WB’s fruit power which these hands are not.
Click to expand...
You know black hole has its own gravitational pull... which means it can absorb people in the air
 
KingTempest said:
You know black hole has its own gravitational pull... which means it can absorb people in the air
Click to expand...
And like I keep saying over and over: he is pulling towards him hundreds of meters of writhing flesh. It is irrelevant where or how he can pull Shigaraki, Shigaraki counters it by never even getting close to him because BB gets a face full of limbs before Shigaraki ever even gets to him.

Also, going by the verse page, isn’t BB upscaling from something say lower than Shigaraki?

Issho’s calc is 3.65e12kg while weakened AM’s calc is 9.3e13kg
 
And again: Shigaraki is decaying Marineford in seconds thanks to his hands. The only reason he didn’t instantly delete everything that exists around him and doom Japan is because his Quirks were shut off. Unless BB is touching him instantly, decay procs and they’re both going under the sea with Nemo in the first few seconds of the fight before Teach even knows what’s going on.
 
BB counters Tomura mobility with gravity. There's not much he can do against it, once pulled gravitationally it would be very risky for him due powernull and BFR (He can absorb not necessarily from the ground but from the darkness generated from his own body). Tomura could do like Ace, who attacked while being pulled but with the two fruits BB can respond to any attack in mid-air. The argument of destroying the battlefield to make teach fall into the sea is not very convincing since the Gura gura's vibrations allow you to control the sea and spread the water at pleasure.

Any physical attack from Tomura would be absorbed by a dense, impermeable mass of darkness that emits an infinite gravitational force and nulls everything it touches. Decay would be the best possible technique, but Tomura would most likely be pulled off the ground before being able to spread the technique over the battlefield. That's basically this.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Teach CANNOT hold Shigaraki down when he has infinite hands ripping into his body while Shigaraki is still fighting him. 6-B attacks send BB reeling, imagine that + infinite hands and mouths tearing into his orifices and scratching at him.
Click to expand...
Those hands and mouths are going to get absorbed into his darkness the second they get close to him.
Kingofwolves999 said:
Search goes crazy too and if he tries that Shigaraki keeps spamming hands. He literally cannot stop the hand spam with anything he has other than attacking them, and he can’t do every single ability he has at once when he’s getting attacked from all sides.
Click to expand...
Bro, tell me when search has provided glimpses into the future, island wide sensing, or mind reading? It ain't shit compared to Kenbun. And again, his darkness is gonna instantly eat anything that gets close to him, including any attacks, and he can do it in all directions.
Kingofwolves999 said:
Also when has BB ever pulled someone through hundreds of meters of flesh.
Click to expand...
He can specifically target certain things for his gravity to effect, so there being flesh in the way doesn't matter. He's gonna use his gravity to attract Shigaraki, not his hands.
Kingofwolves999 said:
Good thing Shigaraki can blast across hundred of kilometers in an instant with his AM level travel speed that Teach is equalized to.
Click to expand...
Do you mean an attack blast or physical movement blast? If its the former, then yeah, that could work, but I doubt he's gonna spam it. If it's the latter that just gets him closer to being absorbed or quaked, both of which are instant GG easy.
Kingofwolves999 said:
He doesn’t get close and spams hands even if he does so Teach can’t.
Click to expand...
Darkness that instantly absorbs both the hands and Shigaraki when the get close to him says what:
Kingofwolves999 said:
Infinite hands decaying him say gg if he takes his focus off of them slamming into and attacking him
Click to expand...
The hands won't be able to attack him when their in his darkness.
Kingofwolves999 said:
Hands are infinite and will spread bigger than his darkness so that doesn’t mean anything. Shigaraki just constantly produces them forever and they stalemate until the whole island is destroyed.
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter if the hands spread bigger (which I doubt, since Teach's darkness can cover an entire island), since they are going after him; once they get close, they get absorbed and destroyed. Also, Teach ain't just gonna stand there until the island is destroyed, he's gonna either rock his shit with long distance quakes, or pull him in with darkness.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
And like I keep saying over and over: he is pulling towards him hundreds of meters of writhing flesh. It is irrelevant where or how he can pull Shigaraki, Shigaraki counters it by never even getting close to him because BB gets a face full of limbs before Shigaraki ever even gets to him.
Click to expand...
"He counters getting yanked by not getting close"
Also you do realize that... they would just get placed inside the darkness w/out needing to touch him?
Kingofwolves999 said:
Also, going by the verse page, isn’t BB upscaling from something say lower than Shigaraki?

Issho’s calc is 3.65e12kg while weakened AM’s calc is 9.3e13kg
Click to expand...
Scales gargantually far above Pre TS Luffy who is 9.0444749e13 kgf. Damn near the same yield
 
Ryuga21 said:
BB counters Tomura mobility with gravity. There's not much he can do against it, once pulled gravitationally it would be very risky for him due powernull and BFR (He can absorb not necessarily from the ground but from the darkness generated from his own body). Tomura could do like Ace, who attacked while being pulled but with the two fruits BB can respond to any attack in mid-air. The argument of destroying the battlefield to make teach fall into the sea is not very convincing since the Gura gura's vibrations allow you to control the sea and spread the water at pleasure.

Any physical attack from Tomura would be absorbed by a dense, impermeable mass of darkness that emits an infinite gravitational force and nulls everything it touches. Decay would be the best possible technique, but Tomura would most likely be pulled off the ground before being able to spread the technique over the battlefield. That's basically this.
Click to expand...
Dark Vortex and Dark Hole are not the same technique and Teach will be pulling infinite fingers towards him, not Shigaraki. I’ve been over all of these points already.
Da3ggman said:
Those hands and mouths are going to get absorbed into his darkness the second they get close to him.

Bro, tell me when search has provided glimpses into the future, island wide sensing, or mind reading? It ain't shit compared to Kenbun. And again, his darkness is gonna instantly eat anything that gets close to him, including any attacks, and he can do it in all directions.

He can specifically target certain things for his gravity to effect, so there being flesh in the way doesn't matter. He's gonna use his gravity to attract Shigaraki, not his hands.

Do you mean an attack blast or physical movement blast? If its the former, then yeah, that could work, but I doubt he's gonna spam it. If it's the latter that just gets him closer to being absorbed or quaked, both of which are instant GG easy.

Darkness that instantly absorbs both the hands and Shigaraki when the get close to him says what:

The hands won't be able to attack him when their in his darkness.

Doesn't matter if the hands spread bigger (which I doubt, since Teach's darkness can cover an entire island), since they are going after him; once they get close, they get absorbed and destroyed. Also, Teach ain't just gonna stand there until the island is destroyed, he's gonna either rock his shit with long distance quakes, or pull him in with darkness.
Click to expand...
He makes infinitely more and still destroys everything.

Idc what Kenbun does, BB only has intermediate which doesn’t help him from hand spam

The flesh is Shigaraki. The Flesh gets pulled.

He moves his foot and jumps hundreds of kilometers in an instant.

Hands get closer first and never stop coming so BB can’t do anything. He tries to pull Shigaraki, he gets hands. He tries to absorb everything, he gets hands. The island is crumbling all around him and all he has are hands

Understood, never said they could.

He dodges the Quakes with his speed, Shigaraki’s AoE attacks are big enough to one shot the island and he instantly decays the entire thing with his hands if BB doesn’t touch him and keep touching him forever. Which he can’t do cause then he gets hands and the hands just do nothing but keep coming.

Explain the counter if Shigaraki uses a bunch of his hand-mouths and sprays water all over BB.

KingTempest said:
"He counters getting yanked by not getting close"
Also you do realize that... they would just get placed inside the darkness w/out needing to touch him?

Scales gargantually far above Pre TS Luffy who is 9.0444749e13 kgf. Damn near the same yield
Click to expand...
If he’s using that big shroud attack or Dark Hole yes. Dark Vortex doesn’t do that. And the island is getting deleted the second Shigaraki decides to fight so none of this matters since everything is going under anyway.

Teach probably has higher scaling chain then but not by a ton and I assume just by a lot of “is stronger” than by a definitive 2x like was claimed.
 
This is the current pipeline:

Shigaraki looks at Blackbeard, sees his weaknesses with Search, immediately uses his infinite hands to destroy all of Marineford in seconds because one hand can delete 3km in less than a minute. He now has infinite amounts that can all do Decay.

BB either goes to pull Shigaraki or just Black Holes to absorb hands or hell both. Regardless of what he does, Shigaraki spams hands at him so he winds up just pulling hundreds of meters of hands to himself. If he touched the hands, he removes Shigaraki’s Quirks, but the hands and mouths will keep attacking and biting and hitting him which will not be pleasant since Shigaraki goes for your nose and eyes.

If he does not hold onto the hands and just absorbs them without touching them, Shigaraki uses Air Cannon + his still infinitely spawning hands that will be covering the entire island, some of which will not be going after Teach and will just be decaying things, to solely destroy Marineford and force Teach into the ocean.

If Teach tries any Quake shenanigans, Tomura dodges with his wild travel speed and continues spawning hands because nothing Teach has can stop him from spawning hands. He then nukes Marineford again with his tens of kilometers death move and destroys its decaying remains.
 
Also BB doesn’t know the hands aren’t a DF power so if he touches them thinking he can stop them from spawning all that’s gonna happen is he’s gonna get swarmed by the thousands of mouths and fingers grabbing and tearing at his body from every angle. He can get rid of them easy by absorbing them but while he’s doing that Shigaraki gets his Quirks back and decays everything since he can make infinite hands and they’d spread all around Marineford and decay the entire island.
 
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