Kusuo Saiki - Low Complex Multiversal Attack Potency Removal

[Benimōru]

First, I suggest you read this thread for more information on this topic.

5-D Sight Energy Argument:

“Do you know the energy called ‘sight’?”

I don’t know that word. Though I think I’ve seen “psy” used before.

I look at this world’s Saiki Kusuo, who shakes his head as well.

“You don’t know it, huh? Then allow me to explain! ‘Sight’ is an ability born out of a feeling of distress or uneasiness generated in this world’s supreme observers. In other words, it’s an energy transferred from the reader’s brain to the book the moment they get the feeling that something’s off.”

Huh. I see. I don’t understand a thing.

“It’s energy that exists in a completely different dimension from superpowers. I’m sure it must be hard to conceptualize. A full explanation of ‘sight’ energy would be too complicated, so for now, allow me to answer why I’m here in the first place. As the novelization progressed, this world has been shifting off-axis little by little. I used this ‘sight’ energy to infiltrate this novel and come to this world. Though I was caught and questioned by the police at first. Then I let one year go by, and that’s how we got here.”

This newly-serialized story’s protagonist just admitted that he’s been arrested by the police. Is everyone alright with that?

“That’s right, didn’t you notice several of Asou’s characters sprinkled throughout this world? They were part of a ritual of sorts. I used the ‘sight’ energy to make the boundaries between universes hazy. And then put all of those worlds together once I had gathered enough energy. There might be characters from all sorts of universes hiding in plain sight everywhere!” he says and then laughs maniacally.

“So that’s ‘sight’ energy!”

The problem is that none of these statements prove 5-D/Qualitative Superiority by today's standards.

1. Calling the sources/users of this power supreme observers and referring to them as "readers" is a metaphor. Why? Because it's just a simple sentence to describe how that energy works. Even in the rest of the text there is no mention of them as readers, or that they see the lower realms as fiction, etc. In short, it is a simple metaphor to describe how this guys are watching others from their realm.

2. Even if we're count it as a "factual" statement, what we call Reality > Fiction by itself is not implies a higher dimensional existence. So the "readers" who own this power cannot be 5-D just because they are called "reader".

DT's comments on this kind of situation:

Seeing reality as fiction doesn't mean that your body has an additional dimensional axis. Beings that look in reality as fiction are frequently portrayed as regular 3-dimensional beings (i.e. they often have a human shape), just that they are "more real".

So, this refutes the main logic of the 5-D Sight Energy, which is that "the Supreme Observers view others as fiction and this power comes from them, so it must be 5-D".

Also;

3. The fact that this power comes from a "different dimension" does not lend any support to this issue. This again could be a realm that has the same dimensionality/same number of dimensional axes but is superior to the realms that are below them. As DontTalk and the HDE page explains, this kind of stuffs are just "more real". And even if such statements are combined with the above narrative, it does not mean an extra dimensional axis.

Conclusion;

Saiki's L1-C AP should be removed from the page.

Votes;

Agree: @Georredannea15, @Fixxed, @Mizuki67, @DontTalkDT, @Reiner, @PrinceofPein, @Aseka, @Planck69, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Cropfist

Disagree: @KingNanaya

Neutral:

 

[CloverDragon03]

The second point only applies to Higher-Dimensional Existence as an ability, not to Low 1-C AP iirc. R>F transcendence does qualify you for Low 1-C AP, just not for the HDE ability

Not sure about the rest though

 

[Benimōru]

The second point only applies to Higher-Dimensional Existence as an ability, not to Low 1-C AP iirc.

Saiki's thing comes directly from the fact that these Supreme Observers being 5-D. It's not related with power.

So, long story short, Sight Energy is called L1-C because it is the "mind" energy used by the characters identified as "Readers/Supreme Observers". That's it.

 

[Georredannea15]

First of all, let me say this. Even if an R>F doesn't give you dimensional superiority, QS does, if R>F were there it would still be 5-D AP.

But the statements don't seem to be enough for R>F, especially saying that this power is different and that things happening in the "reader's" brain are in a different dimension, which is not strictly R>F. In short, what is being said to readers does not sound like R>F. Especially because of the "different dimension" nonsense.
(And I mentioned these in the upgrade thread yeah, my stance still remains the same)


Instead of seeing this universe or multiverse as a fiction or a 2D plane, it just implies changing the story of this universe by seeing it like a book and it's just plot, not R>F. The simplest example of this is Arale from DB, she can control the entire cosmology like she can control the pages of a book, but this is just plot manip, not R>F.

 

[KingNanaya]

The second point only applies to Higher-Dimensional Existence as an ability, not to Low 1-C AP iirc. R>F transcendence does qualify you for Low 1-C AP, just not for the HDE ability

agree with this.

 

[Benimōru]

agree with this.

Aight, counted

 

[DontTalkDT]

Didn't really feel like getting involved for a while, but if someone else is already doing it I guess I might as well...
So, eh, can someone summarize me what the plot of the novel is? I wanna know what this is about in context.
And why is the novel canon, if in the main canon it is said to exist as fictional work IIRC?

As it stands, I do think the OP might have a point.

 

[Georredannea15]

Didn't really feel like getting involved for a while, but if someone else is already doing it I guess I might as well...
So, eh, can someone summarize me what the plot of the novel is? I wanna know what this is about in context.
And why is the novel canon, if in the main canon it is said to exist as fictional work IIRC?

As it stands, I do think the OP might have a point.

I have no idea why it's Canon, but I'd say the 5-D/Low 1-C AP here basically comes from the phrase "readers in different dimension"(Something like that.) It was called R>F... This was the 5-D argument in the previous thread

 

[DontTalkDT]

I have no idea why it's Canon, but I'd say the 5-D/Low 1-C AP here basically comes from the phrase "readers in different dimension"(Something like that.) It was called R>F... This was the 5-D argument in the previous thread

Yeah, that's way too vague IMO.

 

[DontTalkDT]

These are the pages in which the LNs were mentioned in canon btw.

Pretty clearly mentions it like a novel.

Explicitly shows it as a literal book.

If the canon Saiki in any way interacts with the novel, then it wouldn't be R>F transcendence, but Immersion or something, as he interacts with a world that is fiction from his universe's main world of regular humans (See Reality Equalization).

 

[Fixxed]

Yeah i agree with this

 

[Mizuki67]

Agree

 

[Georredannea15]

These are the pages in which the LNs were mentioned in canon btw.

Pretty clearly mentions it like a novel.

Explicitly shows it as a literal book.

If the canon Saiki in any way interacts with the novel, then it wouldn't be R>F transcendence, but Immersion or something, as he interacts with a world that is fiction from his universe's main world of regular humans (See Reality Equalization).

Thanks for your comment DT, could you please tag a few more staff?

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

These are the pages in which the LNs were mentioned in canon btw.

Pretty clearly mentions it like a novel.

Explicitly shows it as a literal book.

If the canon Saiki in any way interacts with the novel, then it wouldn't be R>F transcendence, but Immersion or something, as he interacts with a world that is fiction from his universe's main world of regular humans (See Reality Equalization).

he refrences the ln as being a reason he can use an ability in the first scan.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Hmm

 

[DontTalkDT]

he refrences the ln as being a reason he can use an ability in the first scan.

No, not as the reason. The reason he can teleport without delay (i.e. intervals) is that he took off his limiter, as he says in the scan. The fact that taking off the limiter allows him to teleport without delay is an information mentioned in the LN. That's what the scan explains.
So, no, the LN has nothing to do with that ability, it just happens to record that he has it.

 

[ShionAH]

So, eh, can someone summarize me what the plot of the novel is? I wanna know what this is about in context.

Alternate Evil Saiki vs Our Saili

And why is the novel canon, if in the main canon it is said to exist as fictional work IIRC?

Thats 4th wall breaking done by Saiki but it proved Novel is canon. Unless you want to argue he is 5 dimensional because he sees it as fiction lol.

As it stands, I do think the OP might have a point.

How is having 5D energy not Low 1-C?

 

[Aseka]

How is having 5D energy not Low 1-C?

It's like saying have infinite energy contained within body, but that doesn't mean the energy produced/output energy can be the same thing.

 

[Benimōru]

How is having 5D energy not Low 1-C?

Energy is not 5-D, (because the Supreme Observers are not 5-D), in the first place.

The OP is still there explaining why the scans are not enough.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Energy is not 5-D in the first place.

The OP is still there explaining why the scans are not enough.

So if this thread got accepted, will saiki lost his tier.

 

[Benimōru]

So if this thread got accepted, will saiki lost his tier.

Only his L1-C key

 

[PrinceofPein]

I agree with DT on this, it is too vague to be given a rating.

 

[Reiner04]

Agree

 

[Aseka]

Based on revision recently, I agree with this.

 

[ShionAH]

Energy is not 5-D, (because the Supreme Observers are not 5-D), in the first place.

Seeing a universe as fiction is 5D Feat.

Its not even vague at all. We literally see Saiki affect the Supreme Observers several times so Idk what the other votes mean...

 

[ShionAH]

Yeah, that's way too vague IMO.

We literally see Saiki affect the Supreme Observers several times ,

Only his L1-C key

Are you only trying to remove the AP or the 5D hax as well?

 

[Georredannea15]

The point that the OP and DT are making is that this is inadequate and vague for an R>F.

If this flies, yeah they both get nuked

 

[ShionAH]

The point that the OP and DT are making is that this is inadequate and vague for an R>F.

Vague?? How the hell is "reader" vague. We literally have an example that fits this in R>f page. Alt Saiki even says they are beyond superpowers of the world, read it as a book

This CRT is literally breaking the R>f rules...

"Potential mediums for viewing a cosmology as fiction include: written media (Books or stories)"

 

[Georredannea15]

Vague?? How the hell is "reader" vague. We literally have an example that fits this in R>f page. Alt Saiki even says they are beyond superpowers of the world, read it as a book

This CRT is literally breaking the R>f rules...

"Potential mediums for viewing a cosmology as fiction include: written media (Books or stories)"

lol no.

These are very vague things, yes, the best example is Arale. Rather than this being a reader, you have to see it like a 2 dimensional plane or look at the whole cosmology from a higher perspective as if you were looking at a flat plane (Or some nonsense like that)

Yes, the term "reader" is very vague at first.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

No, not as the reason. The reason he can teleport without delay (i.e. intervals) is that he took off his limiter, as he says in the scan. The fact that taking off the limiter allows him to teleport without delay is an information mentioned in the LN. That's what the scan explains.
So, no, the LN has nothing to do with that ability, it just happens to record that he has it.

This implies the ln is canon though, as saiki doesnt even remember this information himself. Also, the ln appearing as a work of fiction doesnt really debunk anything, Saiki does a LOT of 4th wall breaking for its gags

 

[ShionAH]

These are very vague things, yes, the best example is Arale. Rather than this being a reader, you have to see it like a 2 dimensional plane or look at the whole cosmology from a higher perspective as if you were looking at a flat plane (Or some nonsense like that)

Whataboutism since Dragon ball has the writers EXIST INSIDE the universe.

Reading the entire world as a book, a manga is a direct way to get R>f. Its on the rules. You cannot just..break them.

 

[ShionAH]

This implies the ln is canon though, as saiki doesnt even remember this information himself. Also, the ln appearing as a work of fiction doesnt really debunk anything, Saiki does a LOT of 4th wall breaking for its gags

I think this CRT is simply breaking the rules of our R>f page tbh

 

[ShionAH]

The OP is arguing that these guys dont have HDE which they dont but it is still a 5D feat with R>f.

 

[Benimōru]

I'm not at home atm, so I'd appreciate it if you guys don't derail the thread until I come and answer.

 

[ShionAH]

I'm not at home atm, so I'd appreciate it if you guys don't derail the thread until I come and answer.

This cannot be accepted since so many profiles like Looney Tunes use the same logic, which makes it impossible to get it accepted unless you change the rule in a staff thread.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Why was tier 1 even accepted with only 3 staff agreeing to it? @DarkDragonMedeus @Lonkitt @Maverick_Zero_X

Even the OP acknowledged @Andytrenom only accepted 2-C

Unless I missed stuff (didn't read the entire thread admittedly)

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Why was tier 1 even accepted with only 3 staff agreeing to it? @DarkDragonMedeus @Lonkitt @Maverick_Zero_X

Even the OP acknowledged @Andytrenom only accepted 2-C

Unless I missed stuff (didn't read the entire thread admittedly)

saiki k isnt really a popular verse for scaling, so thats probably why

 

[ShionAH]

Why was tier 1 even accepted with only 3 staff agreeing to it?

It says "minimum 3 staff" in the rules and Saiki is not much popular plus no disagreements

 

[Benimōru]

This cannot be accepted since so many profiles like Looney Tunes use the same logic

Whataboutism..

Anyways, I will reply to the comments above within 1 hour at the earliest.

 

[ShionAH]

Whataboutism..

That aint it chief