Kusuo Saiki - Low Complex Multiversal Attack Potency Removal

[Georredannea15]

I can swear Georr is actually doing this to spite me since he is a close friend

Dude, I know what a wanker you are Shion

 

[ShionAH]

This is not mentioned anywhere in the scans you are using.

Because its something that you can understand. Not evverything needs to be explained to the reader thats bad writing

Even if it is so, as I have already said, it is about their existence, not about their powers. We still don't know the capacity of their powers.


This statement does not refer to their powers. They are called readers not because they have the power to affect a significantly large 5-D plane, but because they exist in a different realm. You can't use a statement that is used for something else in order to gain other things.

I cannot really say anything here, you are saying they are not 5D since they have no feats or smth? When someone gets 5D with R>F they instantly get 5D AP and Abilities. Which is why Saikis hax scales to it, if you want to downgrade R>F then go right ahead to Staff Threads but right now with the R>F standart this is the correct way.

It's not even that they see "the whole 4D realm" as fiction. It's a 4th wall breaking. Especially in that scene, "Shounen Jump" and some other stuffs are also mentioned.. It's all about them knowing something.

Which is canon, this is the third time I told you this. 4th wall is a genuine plane of existence in the verse and used as a verse mechanic.

Also, in this logic, you have to consider Saiki as 5-D because he's the one who holds the manga.

He isnt doing it, he is explaining how it would work in the Supreme Readers perspective. Read the text he says he is basically showing how it works for our perspective

Still whataboutism.

I am trying to make you understand how our R>f standarts work. Right now R>F gives AP and hax but no HDE since HDE is about maths and stuff, if you want you can change it yourself

 

[ShionAH]

Dude, I know what a wanker you are Shion

Ubeyde is on my side you weakling!

 

[Benimōru]

Because its something that you can understand. Not evverything needs to be explained to the reader thats bad writing

"Bad Writing!!! " Not a really good debunk...

Joking aside, this is just your interpretation. That's why it's vague.

I cannot really say anything here, you are saying they are not 5D since they have no feats or smth? When someone gets 5D with R>F they instantly get 5D AP and Abilities. Which is why Saikis hax scales to it, if you want to downgrade R>F then go right ahead to Staff Threads but right now with the R>F standart this is the correct way.

You said above that these characters are not 5-D, they only scale to it as AP and hax. Now here you are saying that they are 5-D...

And you keep saying "R>F standards" but you are the one who doesn't know about the standards.

Let alone the fact that this is not R>F, even if we assume that, you cannot take the statement out of its intended use. When a character gains HDE with a qualitative superiority, it doesn't reflect on their AP, in the same way that when a character gains AP with qualitative superiority, it doesn't reflect on their HDE. You need to make a decision rn.

And putting your desicion aside, the statement here is that these Supreme Observers are called readers because they are watching others from a different dimension. You cannot take this statement for AP, for hax and for existence at the same time. Because this is not stated for this in the first place.

Which is canon, this is the third time I told you this. 4th wall is a genuine plane of existence in the verse and used as a verse mechanic.

The fact that it is canon to break the fourth wall is irrelevant. It's still not a qualitative superiority feat.

He isnt doing it, he is explaining how it would work in the Supreme Readers perspective. Read the text he says he is basically showing how it works for our perspective

Again, only your interpretation. It's not what's happening in the scan.

I am trying to make you understand how our R>f standarts work. Right now R>F gives AP and hax but no HDE since HDE is about maths and stuff, if you want you can change it yourself

If this is your knowledge on R>F, please stop teaching people immediately.

I don't know how many times I am explaining this, but you cannot use a statement outside its meaning. If statements of qualitative superiority are used for your existence, it only gives you HDE (even R>F grants HDE if it refers to an extra dimensional axis), it doesn't affect your AP. And if it is used for your AP, it doesn't give you HDE. You cannot use the statement for everything unless the statement says so.

 

[ShionAH]

You said above that these characters are not 5-D, they only scale to it as AP and hax. Now here you are saying that they are 5-D...

I am talking about their AP. Not mathematical axis. It should be obvious…

And you keep saying "R>F standards" but you are the one who doesn't know about the standards.

You literally said they shouldnt gain 5D AP since they dont have HDE

Thats literally wrong…

Let alone the fact that this is not R>F

Look up the page for R>F. It says “reading the universe as a story, a book or such is R>f” so you are wrong

even if we assume that, you cannot take the statement out of its intended use. When a character gains HDE with a qualitative superiority, it doesn't reflect on their AP, in the same way that when a character gains AP with qualitative superiority, it doesn't reflect on their HDE. You need to make a decision rn.

They dont have HDE correct, yet they have 5D AP and Abilities. Thats what R>f gives us. HDE needs mathematical axis and such which obviously dont exist in R>F.

And putting your desicion aside, the statement here is that these Supreme Observers are called readers because they are watching others from a different dimension.

They are reading the dimension. Which on its own implies R>F paired with the other scans PAIRED with the 4th wall breaking being canon here. Its very well a R>F and a AP+Hax feat

The fact that it is canon to break the fourth wall is irrelevant. It's still not a qualitative superiority feat.

I am not even gonna answer this lmao

Again, only your interpretation. It's not what's happening in the scan.

Read the damn scan. Saiki literally says “Lets assume you are reading a book”

I don't know how many times I am explaining this, but you cannot use a statement outside its meaning. If statements of qualitative superiority are used for your existence, it only gives you HDE, it doesn't affect your AP. And if it is used for your AP, it doesn't give you HDE. You cannot use the statement for everything unless the statement says so.

Literally no one is giving them HDE. HDE needs Mathematical Axis and more, R>F gives AP and Power Level.

I saw at least 4 verses get 5D this way. I dont know why its why different here…

 

[ShionAH]

I think you disagree with the general R>F stuff.

Right now if you have R>F you get everything such as AP, Power Level, Hax and more expect for HDE.

Again check out the Looney Tunes for an example.

 

[Benimōru]

You literally said they shouldnt gain 5D AP since they dont have HDE

No? I am saying that that statement is used for the existence of those characters, not for Sight Energy itself, and therefore (because R>F alone does not give HDE) Sight Energy will not be 5-D.

 

[Benimōru]

Look up the page for R>F. It says “reading the universe as a story, a book or such is R>f” so you are wrong

Are you really serious? Or are you doing this on purpose?

And I'm really not going to respond to the rest of the text, it's too much of a dumbass.

Staff can read the above and decide what they want to decide.

 

[ShionAH]

No? I am saying that that statement is used for the existence of those characters, not for Sight Energy itself, and therefore (because R>F alone does not give HDE) Sight Energy will not be 5-D.

Sight Energy COMES from them and their minds. Saiki also shows his powers work on them further proving 5D hax.

And I'm really not going to respond to the rest of the text, it's too much of a dumbass.

 

[Benimōru]

Sight Energy COMES from them and their minds.

It doesn't change anything.

Coming from them =/= The statement for their existence includes their power.

 

[ShionAH]

It doesn't change anything.

Coming from them =/= The statement for their existence includes their power.

Yet r>f gives hax. You can try to change it in staff threads but rn it does.

The fact that it is canon to break the fourth wall is irrelevant. It's still not a qualitative superiority feat.

From R>F Page: Reality-Fiction Transcendence is a state where a being is qualitatively superior to another world, as a result of seeing the world as fiction and thus being more 'real' than said world. Due to this, the character will be treated as completely superior to the cosmology it transcends, and all characters limited to it, and will thus be granted a higher tier.

 

[ShionAH]

“For example, if a character were to view an entire space-time continuum as fiction, they would be superior to such an extent that finite, or even basic infinite, differences in power cannot overcome their superiority. Thus, they would be treated as more than infinitely greater, such as in this case Low 1-C. The gap between the higher world and the lower world would be strictly one of quality, not quantity.”

Literally on the R>F page again.

 

[Edutyn]

That cannot even be called a point lmao.

5-D For the Readers. Not for Saiki. His hax and maybe AP scale.

Its literally not. The other scan shows these “readers” see the world as a manga. They can hold it and see that its 2 dimensional. Also how tf is “readers” in this context not obvious? Its talking about “us” in canon.

To add:
Saiki says this in the novel:

Well then, what did you think about Toritsuka’s first chapter? Was it as bad as you expected? That’s good to hear. Well, it was no laughing matter for me… There was a high chance that you would shut the book immediately after realizing that Toritsuka would be the one talking. So thank you for getting this far.

I’ve been able to hear all of our readers’ thoughts on Toritsuka’s chapter thanks to my telepathic skills, but if I had to summarize the most common opinions, it would be something like:

“Toritsuka’s chapter…? Why are they doing something so risky…?”

“Did they forget the tragedy that was Chapter 30 in the manga?! They must be out of their minds!”

“I don’t care if it’s a novelization, I don’t think there was any need to make a bet so unfavorable!”

I’ve been hearing voices following that same train of thought for a while, but don’t worry, I completely agree.

Making readers see the whole world of Saiki as a book (or something like that, I'm bad at expressing myself).

 

[Benimōru]

From R>F Page: Reality-Fiction Transcendence is a state where a being is qualitatively superior to another world, as a result of seeing the world as fiction and thus being more 'real' than said world. Due to this, the character will be treated as completely superior to the cosmology it transcends, and all characters limited to it, and will thus be granted a higher tier.

If the purpose of this R>F statement is only for your existence and not for the transcendence of your power, it does not give you a higher tier. It is only the Supreme Observers existen themselves (their existence) that are superior to the 4D plane with R>F here... Not their powers

 

[Benimōru]

Making readers see the whole world of Saiki as a book (or something like that, I'm bad at expressing myself).

Yes, nothing except that he reads the minds of non-5-D readers.

Anyways, I'm done. Let the staff decide the rest

 

[ShionAH]

OMFG this kid is fr serious

Damn. Why are you so cringe all of a sudden?

If the purpose of this R>F statement is only for your existence and not for the transcendence of your power, it does not give you a higher tier.

Being infinitely superior and seeing it as a simply manga a fictional story should be enough for qs and r>f. Which gives higher tier and hax

 

[Benimōru]

Being infinitely superior

Never stated, just your interperation.

seeing it as a simply manga a fictional story

Nothing like that happened. These things you said were only shown as breaking the fourth wall. Not as R>F

Which gives higher tier and hax

It might have been, if such things had stated

 

[ShionAH]

Never stated, just your interperation.

“For example, if a character were to view an entire space-time continuum as fiction, they would be superior to such an extent that finite, or even basic infinite, differences in power cannot overcome their superiority. Thus, they would be treated as more than infinitely greater, such as in this case Low 1-C. The gap between the higher world and the lower world would be strictly one of quality, not quantity.”

Literally on the R>F page again.

Nothing like that happened. These things you said were only shown as breaking the fourth wall. Not as R>F

Its a canon 4th wall as shown in the novel so your point doesnt work lmao

I can see you cannot answer me anymore and keep repeating “4th wall gag!” And insulting me and my comments. I dont see a point on repeating myself so I will not respond to you any further, and unlike you I wil actually not respond after saying I wont.

 

[Georredannea15]

Okay, let's stop now because this is going around in circles. Both sides have responded, for now there are 2 staff who have agreed with the OP. We need more staff

 

[ShionAH]

Okay, let's stop now because this is going around in circles. Both sides have responded, for now there are 2 staff who have agreed with the OP. We need more staff

They agreed before my arguments. I would like them to read the theead again to vote again.

 

[Georredannea15]

They agreed before my arguments. I would like them to read the theead again to vote again.

Already in the OP there are the same arguments that Low 1-C accepted... But ok.

 

[ShionAH]

Already in the OP there are the same arguments that Low 1-C accepted... But ok.

I dont understand. The scans I posted and Edutyn quoted are not there…

 

[DontTalkDT]

Alternate Evil Saiki vs Our Saili

I meant in more detail. Like, what is the step for step rundown of what happens?

Thats 4th wall breaking done by Saiki but it proved Novel is canon. Unless you want to argue he is 5 dimensional because he sees it as fiction lol.

It proved the LN is canon in the sense that it is canonically a book in the verse. It is not canon in the sense that what is written in the novel actually happens. In fact, the manga showing it as a book pretty clearly proves that what happens in the book does not happen within Saiki's own reality. It's just a fictional work in his.
As per reality equalization standards seeing something as fictional from the regular universe is not Tier 1. Saiki is 3D. It's the LN he views as fiction that would be Tier 11, for being fictional relative to what in Saiki's verse is the real world.

How is having 5D energy not Low 1-C?

In real life physics gravity might be an 11 dimensional force. Doesn't make that Tier 1 either. I also see no evidence of it being 5D to begin with. It only says from a different dimension, which is not a statement of higher dimensionality. Likewise, the R>F stuff is, as it stands, too vague. I don't know if context of the novel adds anything to it. That's why I asked for a run down.

This implies the ln is canon though, as saiki doesnt even remember this information himself. Also, the ln appearing as a work of fiction doesnt really debunk anything, Saiki does a LOT of 4th wall breaking for its gags

It only implies that the LN is canon, as a book in the verse. I.e. nothing that happens in the novel would be relevant, as it didn't ever happen.
It would have the same relationship to Saiki's verse as Chuck Norris jokes have to real life Chuck Norris. It features characters from that verse and might involve details about the character, but it's just fictional.

I really doubt they would make a 4th wall break that shows something existing as a book in the verse if the events of that book actually happened. That aside, there is no other evidence that it is canon as far as I know, so if this is just a 4th wall break, then you wouldn't even have evidence that it is canon as a fictional work within the verse.

 

[ShionAH]

I meant in more detail. Like, what is the step for step rundown of what happens?

It proved the LN is canon in the sense that it is canonically a book in the verse. It is not canon in the sense that what is written in the novel actually happens. In fact, the manga showing it as a book pretty clearly proves that what happens in the book does not happen within Saiki's own reality. It's just a fictional work in his.
As per reality equalization standards seeing something as fictional from the regular universe is not Tier 1. Saiki is 3D. It's the LN he views as fiction that would be Tier 11, for being fictional relative to what in Saiki's verse is the real world.

In real life physics gravity might be an 11 dimensional force. Doesn't make that Tier 1 either. I also see no evidence of it being 5D to begin with. It only says from a different dimension, which is not a statement of higher dimensionality. Likewise, the R>F stuff is, as it stands, too vague. I don't know if context of the novel adds anything to it. That's why I asked for a run down.

It only implies that the LN is canon, as a book in the verse. I.e. nothing that happens in the novel would be relevant, as it didn't ever happen.
It would have the same relationship to Saiki's verse as Chuck Norris jokes have to real life Chuck Norris. It features characters from that verse and might involve details about the character, but it's just fictional.

I really doubt they would make a 4th wall break that shows something existing as a book in the verse if the events of that book actually happened. That aside, there is no other evidence that it is canon as far as I know, so if this is just a 4th wall break, then you wouldn't even have evidence that it is canon as a fictional work within the verse.

I will answer after I come home. Though you are taking his fourth wall breaking too literally. For example by your logic would this be High 1-B lol

 

[Elizhaa]

I guess it seems fine it wasn't properly accepted and DontTalkDT's points make sense to me currently.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

If either @Lonkitt (though they are currently busy with irl stuff, so I wouldn't wait for them) or @Maverick_Zero_X show support to OP, I would consider it completely accepted.

For the record, I am currently leaning to agreeing too, but am neutral overall.

 

[ShionAH]

I meant in more detail. Like, what is the step for step rundown of what happens?

You should call @edutyn for that since he knows more about that.

 

[ShionAH]

If either @Lonkitt (though they are currently busy with irl stuff, so I wouldn't wait for them) or @Maverick_Zero_X show support to OP, I would consider it completely accepted.

For the record, I am currently leaning to agreeing too, but am neutral overall.

So does Tier 1 revisions on small verses need 3? or more approvals?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So does Tier 1 revisions on small verses need 3? or more approvals?

5 at the minimum

We have 4 staff already, with one that had originally approved it switching to agreeing with OP.

 

[ShionAH]

5 at the minimum

Then the Low 1-C should be removed regardless, no?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Then the Low 1-C should be removed regardless, no?

I am being fair and giving time for the og staff that evaluated the upgrade to come and read this one and give their thoughts. DDM has given theirs, Lonkitt unfortunately will be busy for a bit, so that leaves Mav.

But if another staff agreed and you want this accepted regardless, fair enough with me.

 

[Cropfist]

I agree with this.

 

[ShionAH]

if another staff agreed and you want this accepted regardless, fair enough with me.

I will make a new CRT for it regardless after I research this more. So I am fine with the removal and aplogise since I thought 3 was enough

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

I will make a new CRT for it regardless after I research this more. So I am fine with the removal and aplogise since I thought 3 was enough

3 is good for non controversial and up to tier 2 stuff.

 

[Eseseso]

You should call @edutyn for that since he knows more about that.

I already reached out to him.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I really doubt they would make a 4th wall break that shows something existing as a book in the verse if the events of that book actually happened. That aside, there is no other evidence that it is canon as far as I know, so if this is just a 4th wall break, then you wouldn't even have evidence that it is canon as a fictional work within the verse.

 

[Eseseso]

Bump

 

[Benimōru]

Bump

 

[DontTalkDT]

Touché, but given how things are referred to as happening in the book as well instead of in reality, there is quite a difference still.
And, most importantly, we are lacking any evidence of it being canon in any way other than a book, which would really be the prerequisite.

Anyway, I guess I will go and read the novels for now so that I can debate this better.

 

[ShionAH]

Anyway, I guess I will go and read the novels for now so that I can debate this better.

I can give you the link if you want, I am reading it rn