Reinhard Van Astrea vs Alus Reigin

[Robo432343]

Reinhard van Astrea

Reinhard van Astrea (ラインハルト・ヴァン・アストレア, Rainharuto van Asutorea?) is the current Sword Saint (剣聖, Kensei?) and a member of the Lugunican Royal Guard, currently acting as Felt's knight, supporting her in her bid to become the 42nd king of the Dragon Kingdom of Lugunica. He is not only the...

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vs

Alus Reigin

Alus Reigin is the main protagonist of The Greatest Magicmaster’s Retirement Plan. He is the #1 Magicmaster in the world who decided to retire after spending 10 years in the military defeating Fiends. Tier: At least High 6-C, likely higher; far higher with <Gra Eater> Name: Alus Reigin Origin...

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Both 6-C
SBA Otherwise
Speed Equal

 

[Fezzih_007]

Following, this seems fun.

Unless Alus Reigin stuff is layered, Reinhard seems to resist almost everything that he have.

 

[Zabazab]

I'm afraid Reinhard's passive powernull probably causes this to be a stomp.

All mana around Reinhard will be blindly drawn to him as a side-effect of his physiology, preventing the use of magic while he's fighting and boosting his power.

 

[Robo432343]

I'm afraid Reinhard's passive powernull probably causes this to be a stomp.

All mana around Reinhard will be blindly drawn to him as a side-effect of his physiology, preventing the use of magic while he's fighting and boosting his power.

nooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

alus magic is based on type 2 info stuff so unless reinhard can affect that power null won`t work

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@Godsatoshi23 is knowledgeable member on this verse.

Alus always starts with his AWR 'night mist' and Alus has extraordinary sensory and precipitation so he can tell if anyone is stronger than night mist, if they are then he starts with Spells like Niflheim, dimension thrust if the opponent is more challenging he uses gra eater and finishes them with one strike.

 

[Zabazab]

alus magic is based on type 2 info stuff so unless reinhard can affect that power null won`t work

It's the mana itself that is being nulled and preventing the type 2 info magic from being constructed.

 

[Zabazab]

Hmm I'm not sure how you can be double-information, but then that begs the question of how we treat equalization here- both characters use mana, but for one mana is type 2 info.

Also would mana being considered type 2 info actually prevent it's absorption? Is there a reason why being a fundamental building block of reality should make it immune to such hax? (I genuinely don't know btw)

 

[Robo432343]

Hmm I'm not sure how you can be double-information, but then that begs the question of how we treat equalization here- both characters use mana, but for one mana is type 2 info.

Also would mana being considered type 2 info actually prevent it's absorption? Is there a reason why being a fundamental building block of reality should make it immune to such hax? (I genuinely don't know btw)

i think its because we would go towards NLF territory if we are assuming reinhard can absorb Type 2 conceptual info hax

 

[Fezzih_007]

So Alus first move is using that Ice spell?

 

[Phoenks]

Okay if those are the starting moves then I confidently say that Reinhard just atomizes the guy.

Starting off with ice, huh. That's really no different than Puck then.

Dimension Thrust is also pretty useless. Reinhard can do the same thing.

Gra Eater is also useless since I don't even think it would work, and even if it did work I don't think it could permanently kill Reinhard.

Overall, he just has weak starting moves and thus Reinhard will most likely end up winning this.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Okay if those are the starting moves then I confidently say that Reinhard just atomizes the guy.

Starting off with ice, huh. That's really no different than Puck then.

Dimension Thrust is also pretty useless. Reinhard can do the same thing.

Gra Eater is also useless since I don't even think it would work, and even if it did work I don't think it could permanently kill Reinhard.

Overall, he just has weak starting moves and thus Reinhard will most likely end up winning this.

From Alus profile his body is madu up of information type 2 and can rewrite it. So Reinhard needs NPI to interact with him. I am not sure about other things. It's either stomps or incon at best in favor of Alus.

Can you ping @Godsatoshi23 he is the one who is more knowledgeable member on the verse.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Hmm

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

It's the mana itself that is being nulled and preventing the type 2 info magic from being constructed.

What you claiming is straight up NLF.

 

[Zabazab]

What you claiming is straight up NLF.

It's been cleared up already that for Alus, mana is type 2 info. I don't think what I said (Reinhard absorbing all mana) was NLF since that's his ability.

From Alus profile his body is madu up of information type 2 and can rewrite it. So Reinhard needs NPI to interact with him. I am not sure about other things. It's either stomps or incon at best in favor of Alus.

He's actually gonna get NPI soon due to several feats Is NPI necessary to affect him with matter hax?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

It's been cleared up already that for Alus, mana is type 2 info. I don't think what I said (Reinhard absorbing all mana) was NLF since that's his ability.

Depends on what you refering all mana

He's actually gonna get NPI soon due to several feats Is NPI necessary to affect him with matter hax?

That's when he gets NPI for information type 2. But currently his profile has no such Abilities. So currently he is no way can interact with Alus.

 

[Zabazab]

Read his profile and I don't see where it says he is made up of type 2 info.

It says his mana is type 2 info, and contains his personal info.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Read his profile and I don't see where it says he is made up of type 2 info.

It says his mana is type 2 info, and contains his personal info.

Well I am not fully knowledgeable on the verse but profile does states it as information body.

Alus referred to the informational body that defined a person’s experience and qualities. Mana is a mass of personal information, and at its deepest level it is fundamental information made up of Fundamental Words.[13] By manipulating their mana information, one can cause various phenomena, such as creating spells, fixing their coordinate information by rewriting their information,

The scan states bodies can he swapped with information not any physical moments it's not by teleportation instead rewriting the information of mana body coordinates .

Gyazo

gyazo.com

 

[Zabazab]

Well I am not fully knowledgeable on the verse but profile does states it as information body.

This doesn't say his physical body is made from pure information- it says that individuals have what's similar to a soul made from mana information, that is the informational body.

The scan states bodies can he swapped with information not any physical moments it's not by teleportation instead rewriting the information of mana body coordinates .

This doesn't suggest his actual body is type 2 info.

"Shuffle functions by swapping two spatial coordinates". This is teleportation through space. He sends his info somewhere else and uses shuffle to instantly trade places to there. It is even listed as teleportation.

 

[Greatsage13th]

As far as I can tell Reinhard doesn't stomp by just being there in this match.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

This doesn't say his physical body is made from pure information- it says that individuals have what's similar to a soul made from mana information, that is the informational body.

That does says they can rewrite their information itself.

Anyway I am not gonna bother arguing Regarding that further because I am not completely knowledgeable on the verse.

This doesn't suggest his actual body is type 2 info.

"Shuffle functions by swapping two spatial coordinates". This is teleportation through space. He sends his info somewhere else and uses shuffle to instantly trade places to there. It is even listed as teleportation.

You are Contradicting with your words.

Yeah he sent his mana/information body not physical body and it's teleportation by logic but not an average teleportation where character swaps places that scan Clearly talks about Pure information itself.

Anyway I will drop the arguments for Alus body being made up information because I am not knowledgeable member on the verse but there are many things still you can argue for Alus.

---

So here is my review.

Reinhard can't come back if Alus uses gra eater because it even consumes information type 2 of the opponent character so Reinhard needs HGR which he doesn't posses and Alus can indeed swap places with another mana information as states in the profile if he gets hurt.

TD:LR;

Whatever Alus does works based on manipulating information on the mana itself so It doesn't matter if Alus body is made up information or not his skills does indeed made up of information type 2. So Reinhard shouldn't be able to resists a single one of the skills.

So I vote in favour of Alus.

 

[Zabazab]

You are Contradicting with your words.

No, I didn't.

his skills does indeed made up of information type 2. So Reinhard shouldn't be able to resists a single one of the skills.

Why?

I think Reinhard's starting move of [Optimal Decision] lets him take this. He just massively outskills and would immediately behead Alus with his hand.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Why?

Check his abilities and his P&A. Spells are created by manipulating the information in the mana. Also his biggest trump card absorbs and destroys information type 2.

By manipulating their mana information, one can cause various phenomena, such as creating spells, fixing their coordinate information by rewriting their information, or bringing a completely false world into reality and advanced level users of it can even interfere with the dimensional information. Also, Alus can even destroy or absorb the mana information itself via Gra eater)

I think Reinhard's starting move of [Optimal Decision] lets him take this. He just massively outskills and would immediately behead Alus with his hand.

So You believe some extraordinary genius would just let Reinhard behead him just standing there without dodging the attacks? Good luck with that.

Alus Intelligence: Extraordinary Genius

Also as for SBA both will be 4Kms away from each other. Don't see how Reinhard bliztes 4kms and one shots Alus.

are you saying alus' powers and abilities are based off info hax type 2

Not all atleast the so called spells in his profile.

 

[Zabazab]

Check his abilities and his P&A. Spells are created by manipulating the information in the mana.

And why would this make him unable to resist, say, ice freezing him?

So You believe some extraordinary genius would just let Reinhard behead him? Good luck with that

Alus is an extraordinary magical genius, but Reinhard's combat IQ is >>>>>>

Additionally:

Blessing of the Sword Saint: An ability which maxes out his talent for Swordsmanship and allows him to draw Reid, the Dragon Sword. Also grants the user the ability to see floating white rays of battle, which if they were to merely follow the rays and trace them with their sword, they would unquestionably kill their opponent. The ability grants the user battle instincts, which are heightened to perfection, and they can see and read the trajectories of their opponent's attacks.

Blessing of Initiative: He cannot be ambushed, and all initial attacks from Reinhard will connect.

Blessing of First Sight: The first time an attack is performed on Reinhard, he automatically dodges regardless of his awareness of the attack. The Blessing will wake him up even if he's asleep.

Blessing of Second Sight: The second attack and all following attacks cannot hit him, as he automatically dodges them faster than the first time.

Also as for SBA both will be 4Kms away from each other. Don't see how Reinhard bliztes 4kms and one shots Alus.

Reinhard swings and beheads him from 4km way. Everything along the arc of his slash is cut, causing the "world" to slide..

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

And why would this make him unable to resist, say, ice freezing him?

because Resisting normal mana ≠ Resisting information based mana abilities. If you claim both are same then that's Clear cut NLF. Reinhard would be only resisting ice not the information which affects the ice. If that doesn't work At last resort what's stopping him using gra eater. Check the P&A half of his P&A comes from Gra ater alone. All based on Information type 2 dump.

Alus is an extraordinary magical genius, but Reinhard's combat IQ is >>>>>>

Additionally:

What ? This dude has Combat experience from age 6. It's not about just magic. He is a Single digit combat character where verse has more than 100 digit. Difference between even a single digit massively Outscales. I think you are just nitpicking the words instead of properly reading the content. Magic master doesn't not just mean he is knowledgeable on magic alone. Check the page again it also plays a role in combat.

Alus is a true genius, having served as a Magicmaster since the tender age of six.

Reinhard swings and beheads him from 4km way. Everything along the arc of his slash is cut, causing the "world" to slide..

Alus has Resistance to spatial manipulation attacks on CM type 2 level. Check his profile Only option Reinhard has is Close combat and you have proof for his starting move is that?

Resistance to BFR (Even space domination magic which can change the coordinates forcibly of others would have no effect on alus who can fix his existence by rewriting the cordinate information[25]), Mind Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement (Via magic[16]), Fear Manipulation (He is able to remain unbothered by Elise's mana which can cause fear to even those who are at the level of 2-digit magic masters and even 1-digit ones[26]), Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) and Spatial Manipulation (Single digit magicmasters are able to resist the effects of the concept of range being affected by spatial magic[26] and which such manipulation includes the manipulation of the said concepts[27]), Fire Manipulation ( Alus was completely unscathed by the flame sword[28])

Reinhard only option at this point is close combat or having attack which ignores the resistance to CM type 2 based space manipulation. which he doesn't possess in his profile.

 

[Zabazab]

because Resisting normal mana ≠ Resisting information based mana abilities. If you claim both are same then that's Clear cut NLF. Reinhard would be only resisting ice not the information which affects the ice. If that doesn't work At last resort what's stopping him using gra eater. Check the P&A half of his P&A comes from Gra ater alone. All based on Information type 2 dump.

He doesn't just resist mana, he also just straight up resists for example ice & cold to the degree of absolute zero. Why would the information which the ice is made up from affect the fact that it is ice?

What ? This dude has Combat experience from age 6. It's not about just magic. He is a Single digit combat character where verse has more than 100 digit. Difference between even a single digit massively Outscales. I think you are just nitpicking the words instead of properly reading the content. Magic master doesn't not just mean he is knowledgeable on magic alone. Check the page again it also plays a role in combat.

Reinhard has been a beyond-genius Swordsman from the age of 5. By the age of 8 he was already the strongest person in the world, and international law had to be introduced that made Reinhard crossing any foreign border an act of war. His skill is at such a level that geniuses like Wilhelm- who in the past witnessed the impossible-to-match skill of the Sword Saint, matched it, and then surpassed it- stated that he was a fool to believe that any distance in abilities could be reached, he says that Reinhard exists in a totally different dimension of skill from anyone and anything. He is the closest there is to the Heavenly Sword, pinnacle of skill.

Alus has Resistance to spatial manipulation attacks on CM type 2 level. Check his profile Only option Reinhard has is Close combat and you have proof for his starting move is that?

The range is not via spatial hax, it's literally just how far his attacks reach.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

He doesn't just resist mana, he also just straight up resists for example ice & cold to the degree of absolute zero. Why would the information which the ice is made up from affect the fact that it is ice?

I didn't said mana as in literal. To form ice you need mana as a creating object one is made up of normal mana which Reinhard resists and another one is mana information which Alus uses. If both are same we wouldn't be having different Abilities as information manipulation and creation.

Reinhard has been a beyond-genius Swordsman from the age of 5. By the age of 8 he was already the strongest person in the world, and international law had to be introduced that made Reinhard crossing any foreign border an act of war. His skill is at such a level that geniuses like Wilhelm- who in the past witnessed the impossible-to-match skill of the Sword Saint, matched it, and then surpassed it- stated that he was a fool to believe that any distance in abilities could be reached, he says that Reinhard exists in a totally different dimension of skill from anyone and anything. He is the closest there is to the Heavenly Sword, pinnacle of skill.

If they with only swords fight sure Reinhard may win but here they are not fighting with swords alone. My point was to prove Alus does has combat experience from a very young age but different fighting style. So he would know how to act with his own way when an attack is made

The range is not via spatial hax, it's literally just how far his attacks reach.

Alus can read Reinhard attacks coming from a distance ahead and he can just deploy forcefield or just dodge the attacks. It's not Hard for him.

 

[Zabazab]

I didn't said mana as in literal. To form ice you need mana as a creating object one is made up of normal mana which Reinhard resists and another one is mana information which Alus uses. If both are same we wouldn't be having different Abilities as information manipulation and creation.

I don't get why the fact that Alus is creating ice via info hax should make that ice bypass ice resistance. The ice isn't utilizing info hax in any way, right? It's just ice born of info hax. Maybe I just don't understand Type 2 Info hax.

If they with only swords fight sure Reinhard may win but here they are not fighting with swords alone. My point was to prove Alus does has combat experience from a very young age but different fighting style. So he would know how to act with his own way when an attack is made

When i said Alus was a magical genius, I was including using it in combat. That doesn't change the fact that Reinhard's battle IQ is massively superior. Reinhard distinguishes all future attscks in advance, instinctually chooses the correct choice to ensure his victory in combat, can easily tell everything an opponent will do based on the air hanging around them. This in combination with Blessing of Initiative which ensures his first attack will connect unless physically impossible, and the Sword Saint which shows a white ray in his vision that, if he traces with his sword, will leadvto him unquestionably killing his opponent.

Alus can read Reinhard attacks coming from a distance ahead and he can just deploy forcefield or just dodge the attacks. It's not Hard for him.

He has no analytical prediction listed. Additionally, Reinhard is outside of his perception radius of 1km.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Here

@Godsatoshi23 is knowledgeable member on this verse.

 

[Robo432343]

that ice spell is broken
has reinhard dealt with law based and information based ice hax

 

[Zabazab]

Again, maybe I just don't understand info hax but I can't see why it being created via info hax means the ice bypasses resistance.

Reinhard's starting move of beheading the opponent from outside their perception range is still better anyway imo. He swings his arm and it's gg.

 

[Robo432343]

Again, maybe I just don't understand info hax but I can't see why it being created via info hax means the ice bypasses resistance.

i just see it as like how conceptual fear hax for example bypasses normal resistance to fear hax

 

[Zabazab]

Eh I think it only bypasses the resistance if it's a type 1 or 2 concept. I'm sure one day someone will explain it to me.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

I Was little busy to respond here.
Will start responding soon but first goona check Reinhard profile my knowledge on him is till anime only.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

First I will just say how Alus's magic and Gra eater works.

Alus possesses the ability to utilize his Gra eater from a far distance too, allowing him to infinitely absorb or destroy any incoming attack, regardless of its source, be it from CM 2 or Info type 2. Simultaneously, he can launch direct attacks that target both the body and soul of his opponents, removing them from existence.

He can also send any incoming attack to the past and reduce them into nothingness even reversing the causality itself of the attack.

His sword of Damocles has the abilities to ignore all other magic and the power to cut space beyond repair and open a rift of horror void. Sending the attacks into another dimension.

Also, almost all Alus' spells can attack at the conceptual type 2 and info type 2 levels (layered) like Cocytus which can affect the entirety of the concept of space by freezing the concept of information itself. It can even freeze a portion of the world and bring death upon everything including space and time itself.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

All mana around Reinhard will be blindly drawn to him as a side-effect of his physiology, preventing the use of magic while he's fighting and boosting his power.

Not exactly. Alus have two types of mana one of his own and another gra eater which came from beyond reality and theories and resides within him.

Whenever he is in danger it instantly activates on its own with no physical body but the information itself. Unless there is a feat for Reinhard can absorb info type 2 it won't get absorbed.

Edit: Even mana itself is also info type 2

 

[Godsatoshi23]

Put me on agree with Alus winning, I don't see how Reinhard resist layerd info type 2& CM 2, existence eraser.

And also I don't see how Reinhard attack will connect to Alus since he will just send all the attacks to an another dimension or Infinitely absorb all the attacks or send them back in time.

 

[Godsatoshi23]

I have one doubt regarding Reinhard resistance to soul manipulation.

Gyazo

gyazo.com

In the scans It says that it can brainwash other people which I think would be resistance to mind manipulation or fear manipulation but nothing here suggests that he is also resisting soul manipulation or am I missing something?

 

[Fezzih_007]

Is because the Soul and mind in Re:zero are basically the same thing. So affecting the mind, also affects the Soul, and vice versa.
https://i.gyazo.com/652511935896b5668cde9714e7f9ec7d.png
https://i.gyazo.com/fedfd3d393c1af5cc1dd41ea8bc963b5.png https://i.gyazo.com/32821b14d2ccbe17bb62c5ed1368f086.png

 

[Zabazab]

In the scans It says that it can brainwash other people which I think would be resistance to mind manipulation or fear manipulation but nothing here suggests that he is also resisting soul manipulation or am I missing something?

Sirius's Authority of Wrath manipulates the soul.