Beatrice optional equipment

[SatellaTheWoE]

This is a minor ccrt for Subaru’s page and that is the fact that beatrice should be his optional equipment arc 5 onwards becus he mostly fought without her in arc 5 and their major fight together was in arc 6 after which Subaru was alone again in arc 7. He uses her sure but its not an always kind of thing

 

[Fezzih_007]

I actually have another suggestions, we should make a profile for both together, like a team.
I think team pages are allowed, we have a bunch of them.

Just make a Subaru and Beatrice profile team, is probally a better Idea.

 

[VortechsTG]

I actually have another suggestions, we should make a profile for both together, like a team.
I think team pages are allowed, we have a bunch of them.

Just make a Subaru and Beatrice profile team, is probally a better Idea.

That sounds good actually

 

[Zabazab]

In Arc 5, he and Betty fight together until she is forced to hibernate, which is why Subaru is forced to fight without her.

In Arc 6 they exclusively fight together, except for moments during Subaru's paranoia due to Gluttony.

In Arc 7 they are seperated by teleportation, and as soon as they reuinite (where Beatrice is literally about to die because she needs him), they immediately fight together again.

They also fight together in Arc 8 except for when Subaru and Todd intentionally seperate themselves from the group to carry out their explosion plan.

Basically unless outside circumstances stop them, they always fight together, due to literally dying if they're apart for too long. We actually see them fight together more than Puck & Emilia or Julius & his buds, both of which we treat as standard equipment.

Basically I disagree and think that a Spirit should be standard equipment for a Spiritual Arts User.

Subaru: “About seventy-percent of everything I can do in these situations counts on Beako, you know.”

Quite frankly, even seventy-percent was a very ostentatious number.

It would be around eighty-percent or ninety-percent, what Subaru could take pride in, as Beatrice’s Contractor, amounted only to a shrewd mind and a number of petty, foxy tricks, so even ninety-five-percent would not be a strange figure.

 

[VortechsTG]

Basically unless outside circumstances stop them, they always fight together, due to literally dying if they're apart for too long. We actually see them fight together more than Puck & Emilia or Julius & his buds, both of which we treat as standard equipment.

Comparing them is super disingenuous. He's the mc. Of course he will have more screentime. Also Beatrice goes off and does stuff on her own all the time. Just like literally right now. In the few times they aren't forced to seperate they still choose to for fighting at times. Julius and Emilia are glued to their spirits.

More importantly, why shouldn't we be able to make matches for Subaru without them? Julius and Emilia without them are vaguely powerful. Subaru is very well defined and has plenty of fights on his own.

 

[Zabazab]

Julius' spirits go off to do stuff seperate as well, like Qua going off to heal Meili or In tagging along with Subaru in Arc 3. Subaru and Beatrice are still absolutely more bound to eachother than any other Spiritualist and Spirit given they die if seperated for too long.

And also, you can absolutely create matches with Subaru seperated from Beatrice. They just can't be added to profiles. I don't see why a Spiritualist having their Contracted Spirit with them would be non-standard. Something like the Fire Magic Ring from Arc 7 would be non-standard and optional.

Emilia can be seperated from Puck and still be added to profiles due to Puck giving her a different tier, but until Betty pulls a non-hax feat she'll have unknown magical ap.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

In Arc 5, he and Betty fight together until she is forced to hibernate, which is why Subaru is forced to fight without her.

Beatrice wakes up and fights Ley Batenkaitos

In Arc 6 they exclusively fight together, except for moments during Subaru's paranoia due to Gluttony.

There is still a point where he isnt likely to use it

In Arc 7 they are seperated by teleportation, and as soon as they reuinite (where Beatrice is literally about to die because she needs him), they immediately fight together again.

He fights alone for 99% of the time

They also fight together in Arc 8 except for when Subaru and Todd intentionally seperate themselves from the group to carry out their explosion plan.

Basically unless outside circumstances stop them, they always fight together, due to literally dying if they're apart for too long. We actually see them fight together more than Puck & Emilia or Julius & his buds, both of which we treat as standard equipment.

Basically I disagree and think that a Spirit should be standard equipment for a Spiritual Arts User.

Thats why i say optional equipment is better becuz Subaru is almost always separated from her regardless of the reasoning behind it. She isnt always available to him which is whata required to be stqbdard equipment

 

[Zabazab]

Being seperated for plot reasons to create drama/stakes/danger doesn't make a Spiritual Arts User's Contracted Spirit a non-standard thing to have access to in a fight.

Under normal circumstances Beatrice and Subaru are nearly always together, as they're relationship is a permanent partnership.

 

[VortechsTG]

"Equipment listed as standard should be equipment the character has access to in a majority of their canon appearances." Straight from the Standard Equipment page.

And Subaru literally doesn't have access to her help for most of his time since contracting to her.

If there is a profile for them as a team then both with and without her is still standard. What is the problem with that?

 

[Phoenks]

Disagree for Zabazab's reasons.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Its not even anything to disagree about because of the definition

 

[Zabazab]

They spend an entire year post-Arc 4 practicing, learning, and creating new spells/strategies.

In Arc 5, Subaru and Beatrice are together until an exceptional circumstance- Beatrice going into hibernation after trying heal wounds caused by Wrath & Greed- seperates them temporarily.

In Arc 6, Subaru and Beatrice are together the whole time.

In Arc 7, Subaru and Beatrice are seperated by an exceptional circumstance- Subaru being teleported to the other side of the planet- and as soon as they reunite, they are together. Beatrice even spent 95% of the trip in hibernation to save her Betty batteries.

It is standard for a Spiritual Arts User to be able to use Spiritual Arts, that is something I feel is rather obvious. In typical circumstances Subaru has access to Beatrice, they are physically, spiritually, and emotionally bound together for their (Subaru's) whole life.

Plot seperating them to put pressure on Subaru is not a reason to make Betty non-standard, latter Arc 5 & Arc 7 are exceptions to the typical base state of Subaru and Betty being together, which is why seperating them creates tension at all.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

They spend an entire year post-Arc 4 practicing, learning, and creating new spells/strategies.

In Arc 5, Subaru and Beatrice are together until an exceptional circumstance- Beatrice going into hibernation after trying heal wounds caused by Wrath & Greed- seperates them temporarily.

In Arc 6, Subaru and Beatrice are together the whole time.

In Arc 7, Subaru and Beatrice are seperated by an exceptional circumstance- Subaru being teleported to the other side of the planet- and as soon as they reunite, they are together. Beatrice even spent 95% of the trip in hibernation to save her Betty batteries.

It is standard for a Spiritual Arts User to be able to use Spiritual Arts, that is something I feel is rather obvious. In typical circumstances Subaru has access to Beatrice, they are physically, spiritually, and emotionally bound together for their (Subaru's) whole life.

Plot seperating them to put pressure on Subaru is not a reason to make Betty non-standard, latter Arc 5 & Arc 7 are exceptions to the typical base state of Subaru and Betty being together, which is why seperating them creates tension at all.

In a normal battle, they canonically havent fought w each other for most of the showings

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Bump

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Bump

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Btw where should i post the link to this to get some mods in on this?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Bump

 

[Fezzih_007]

Btw where should i post the link to this to get some mods in on this?

Message walls.

 

[GrathOfLux]

If I understand the situation correctly - Subaru and Beatrice are two characters who are linked together permanently from Arc 5 of Re:Zero onwards, and because of this, one side is suggesting including Beatrice's abilities as part of Subaru's optional equipment and the other is suggesting including Beatrice's abilities as part of Subaru's standard equipment. Is this correct? If so, this reply suggests the latter would be more appropriate.

In Arc 5, Subaru and Beatrice are together until an exceptional circumstance- Beatrice going into hibernation after trying heal wounds caused by Wrath & Greed- seperates them temporarily.

In Arc 6, Subaru and Beatrice are together the whole time.

In Arc 7, Subaru and Beatrice are seperated by an exceptional circumstance- Subaru being teleported to the other side of the planet- and as soon as they reunite, they are together. Beatrice even spent 95% of the trip in hibernation to save her Betty batteries.

It is standard for a Spiritual Arts User to be able to use Spiritual Arts, that is something I feel is rather obvious. In typical circumstances Subaru has access to Beatrice, they are physically, spiritually, and emotionally bound together for their (Subaru's) whole life.

If they are not only necessarily bound together forever, but being separated causes them physical consequences, then it would be an odd exclusion to any given Versus Match for Beatrice to be assumed by default to not be present. For that reason, I'm leaning on Beatrice's abilities being a part of Subaru's standard equipment.

However, this is a bit of a borderline case - if Subaru has been demonstrated in a great deal of battles from Arc 5 onwards fighting without Beatrice (as a few replies have broadly implied), then I'd be willing to say that it'd be more appropriate to list as optional equipment, simply out of acknowledgement that Subaru can and does canonically fight without Beatrice's abilities at his disposal. I would like tangible examples of this, if possible.

 

[Zabazab]

I agree that neither are physically incapable of fighting without eachother- even if it both weakens them and puts a hard limit on their lifespan, since Beatrice dies without Subaru's mana and Subaru dies without Beatrice draining his mana.

I think people are being influenced by the fact that we just had one very long arc where Subaru and Beatrice (and the rest of his allies) were seperated by an exceptional circumstance- being teleported to a different country.
Beatrice spent the majority of this seperation hibernating while Subaru spent it dying a lot, and actually he never fought a 1v1 fight outside of Todd in Arc 8... which he gets saved from by Emilia & Rem.

The Arc 7 (the arc where they get seperated) Subaru fights are:

1. Subaru and Vincent vs the Elgina Witchbeast
2. Subaru, Rui, and Yorna vs Olbart
3. Subaru and the Sparka Team vs the Guiltylaw
4. Subaru and the Lizardmen vs the Guiltylaw
5. Subaru and the Sparka Team vs Todd
6. Subaru and the Pleiades Battalion vs the Vollachian Army

It just feels weird for Subaru- who relies on others due to being incredibly weak- to be seperated from Betty whom he is contracted to. It is even said she never wants to leave his side.

Ever since hearing about the predicament in which Subaru’s group had found themselves in, Beatrice, who had literally flown back with Roswaal, had firmly resolved to not leave Subaru’s side.

For Subaru as well, letting her go to the battlefield had been heartrending, so he was more than willing to accept Beatrice’s cute resolve. - Arc 8 Chapter 20 "The Two Lights"

 

[VortechsTG]

If I understand the situation correctly - Subaru and Beatrice are two characters who are linked together permanently from Arc 5 of Re:Zero onwards, and because of this, one side is suggesting including Beatrice's abilities as part of Subaru's optional equipment and the other is suggesting including Beatrice's abilities as part of Subaru's standard equipment. Is this correct? If so, this reply suggests the latter would be more appropriate.

If they are not only necessarily bound together forever, but being separated causes them physical consequences, then it would be an odd exclusion to any given Versus Match for Beatrice to be assumed by default to not be present. For that reason, I'm leaning on Beatrice's abilities being a part of Subaru's standard equipment.

However, this is a bit of a borderline case - if Subaru has been demonstrated in a great deal of battles from Arc 5 onwards fighting without Beatrice (as a few replies have broadly implied), then I'd be willing to say that it'd be more appropriate to list as optional equipment, simply out of acknowledgement that Subaru can and does canonically fight without Beatrice's abilities at his disposal. I would like tangible examples of this, if possible.

It was believed that Subaru would suffer consequences from being separated from her for a long time. Not only does he not suffer these consequences after being seperated for months in arc 7, but he genuinely seems stronger. Granted, there are some shenanigans a few weeks in that may be involved but ultimately he has never faced consequences any of the times they've been seperated. Only Beatrice has.

It's important to note that Subaru hasn't just been in situations where he's seperated from Beatrice since he contracted her, that's been the majority of the time since then. He has plenty of fights without her. He fights Sirius once with her in arc 5 after trying to fight Sirius on his own and failing. Then he gets seperated from her and later helps fight Capella and Regulus without her. In arc 6 he doesn't fight much at all but he's still seperated in the miasma cave and fights there. In arc 7, the longest arc, he's seperated essentially the entire time and never fights with her once. He does have plenty of fights without her like the elgina, Todd multiple times, and Sparka (again, multiple times).

Also, let's be honest here. Beatrice essentially gives him a higher ap. She's stronger than city level characters. The only reason she doesn't give a higher rating currently is because she doesn't have a solid calculatable feat of her own and it's hard to say she necessarily scales to those city level characters given she uses so many hax.

 

[Zabazab]

It was believed that Subaru would suffer consequences from being separated from her for a long time. Not only does he not suffer these consequences after being seperated for months in arc 7, but he genuinely seems stronger. Ultimately, he has never faced consequences any of the times they've been seperated. Only Beatrice has.

Subaru having his Od messed with by Olbart and being turned into a child clearly had something to do with his broken Gate not killing him via mana poisoning- something we know is supposed to happen according to magical or medical experts.

He fights Sirius once with her in arc 5 after trying to fight Sirius on his own and failing. Then he gets seperated from her and later helps fight Capella and Regulus without her. In arc 6 he doesn't fight much at all but he's still seperated in the miasma cave and fights there. In arc 7, the longest arc, he's seperated essentially the entire time and never fights with her once. He does have plenty of fights without her like the elgina, Todd multiple times, and Sparka (again, multiple times).

Every single fight listed here is either not a 1v1, Subaru gets saved from the fight by another character, or it's actually just Subaru trying to escape.

Also, let's be honest here. Beatrice essentially gives him a higher ap. He's small building level and she's stronger than city level characters. The only reason she doesn't give a higher rating currently is because she doesn't have a solid calculatable feat of her own and it's hard to say she necessarily scales to those city level characters given she uses so many hax.

I do agree with this. It's just due to site rules that she can't be restricted in a vs thread, but I think the profile being more accurate is more important than more fair vs threads being possible.

 

[GrathOfLux]

If there are a few fights in which Subaru is depicted without Beatrice past Arc 5, then it'd be more appropriate to list Beatrice's abilities as optional equipment. Listing something as optional equipment, after all, doesn't necessarily mean they shouldn't normally have it - it just means that they don't always have it, or more aptly, they don't have it for noteworthy enough periods of time that indexing them without it is worthwhile.

Regardless of what the content of those fights may be, if Subaru is frequently depicted in fights past Arc 5 without Beatrice, then it shows that he doesn't always have Beatrice and her abilities on hand in a fight. There's no reason to exclude battles without Beatrice from being made in that instance - it would just be battles featuring a version of the character that does indeed exist and warrants indexing.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Beatrice being optional equipment is fine with me, it's really not a big deal, all that happens is that vs matches without her would be possible.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

thats 2 mods, so can this be added

 

[Fezzih_007]

Yeah, if two mods agree with the CRT, is good to go.
You can apply the changes now.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

changes have been made, this can be closed now