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Book version
Speed equal
Sba

(I know there's likely better match up with Leo, but jaime my favorite character)
 
Jaime probably wins.
It is equipped with high quality plate armor and sword in castle-forged steel

He is a swordsman superior and comparable to other swordsmen who can hold their own against four ou five men at same time, or even 12-year-old girls from the Bear Islands who can face packs of wolves and kill a few (source).

It also scales to other very good fighters who can defeat in single combat other very good fighters superior in physical strength to them. Characters who can tear off heads with their bare hands, kill warhorses with a single punch, twist steel bars into torcs, cutting swords in half, throwing equipped and armed men with so much force that he flies across a room, etc (source)
 
Jaime probably wins.
It is equipped with high quality plate armor and sword in castle-forged steel

He is a swordsman superior and comparable to other swordsmen who can hold their own against four ou five men at same time, or even 12-year-old girls from the Bear Islands who can face packs of wolves and kill a few (source).

It also scales to other very good fighters who can defeat in single combat other very good fighters superior in physical strength to them. Characters who can tear off heads with their bare hands, kill warhorses with a single punch, twist steel bars into torcs, cutting swords in half, throwing equipped and armed men with so much force that he flies across a room, etc (source)
I don’t know if any of that is bypassing his shield, we see a lot of the Spartans kill multiple skillful men as well being outnumbered

he fight super human threats such as who kick sent a man far and can make a full grown man go far with 1 arm
 
I don’t know if any of that is bypassing his shield

I mean, historically Spartans used bronze armor, which is vastly inferior to the steel equipment of James



In terms of skill, i wouldn't say the difference is that big, Leonidas was the leader and theoretically the best warrior among elite warriors that could do feats like the one showed in the video

Also, the Spartan King have a bigger LS and more natural durability feats

Still, the fact that he have a inferior equipment and 80% of his body exposed really helps Jaime

So, as right now i voting on James, but it might change depending on the arguments
 
I mean, historically Spartans used bronze armor, which is vastly inferior to the steel equipment of James



In terms of skill, i wouldn't say the difference is that big, Leonidas was the leader and theoretically the best warrior among elite warriors that could do feats like the one showed in the video

Also, the Spartan King have a bigger LS and more natural durability feats

Still, the fact that he have a inferior equipment and 80% of his body exposed really helps Jaime

So, as right now i voting on James, but it might change depending on the arguments
These people they fight seems to use high quality material(seem like steel to me) against them which wasn't able to bypass the shield like the immortals that are Persia and I think leo have better range via spear

edit: apparently Persia used high quality crucible wootz steel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamshir
 
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Off topic but you shouldn't use the "Game of Thrones" tag in threads about the books since it's only for threads about the show, instead just use the "A Song of Ice and Fire" tag
 
These people they fight seems to use high quality material(seem like steel to me) against them which wasn't able to bypass the shield like the immortals that are Persia

Huuum, historically there is a lot of answers, but most likely if something would be made of steel for the Spartans equipment it would be the weapons (And even so, the steel techniques os ancient Greece were not as efficient as those from the medieval time where ASOIAF is based of)

The shield could be not bypassed during the movie simply because the weapons of the Persians were not strong enough (We are dealing with a massive army which size is even more exaggerated in 300, almost sure now way quality materials could be used in such scale)
 
Huuum, historically there is a lot of answers, but most likely if something would be made of steel for the Spartans equipment it would be the weapons (And even so, the steel techniques os ancient Greece were not as efficient as those from the medieval time where ASOIAF is based of)

The shield could be not bypassed during the movie simply because the weapons of the Persians were not strong enough (We are dealing with a massive army which size is even more exaggerated in 300, almost sure now way quality materials could be used in such scale)
Perhaps but it was durable to take attacks from superhuman level beings and If I recall elephants I don't think we should compare the equipment they had from real-life I doubt they could do the same feats if they were 1 to 1
 
I thought jaime said he couldn’t beat the mountain

and video

The passage you’re thinking of is Jaime internally listing people in Westeros who are physically stronger than him but he finishes the thought that his speed and skill would let him overcome all of them. Said passage is honestly wild because Jaime mentions Arthur Dayne in it as well who he fanboys over as much as Spidey does Cap yet he still thinks he would win despite worse gear and strength.
(I know there's likely better match up with Leo, but jaime my favorite character)
Based.

Back on topic, Jaime -
  • mows down groups of men who have better armor than the Persians
  • Scales to people that do the same
  • Said armor actually being able to stop his sword in its tracks
  • Loras kills two high tier knights wearing full plate in seconds
  • Garlan can beat three or four knights simultaneously
  • Brienne can beat a dozen knights in the Bitterbridge melee, including Loras
  • Old Barristan without a weapon can kill two of the three Goldcloaks that try to stop him from leaving
  • He could have no diffed the five Kingsguard and the Hound when he is dismissed by Joffrey. When Jaime looks through the Kingsguard book, he says that guys like Trant are good enough to be Kingsguard so it’s not like the other five suck.
  • Sandor can kill four men while surrounded in a 1v12 before dying.
  • Even Bronn who is leagues below Jaime is able to kill a fully equipped knight while wearing no armor, something that is realistically nigh impossible to do irl and is even said by George that people doing that in fiction BS

Compare this to Leonidas who fights guys whose armor (which isn’t even good) is cheese to his sword, has a shield that is meant specifically for the phalanx and group fights, and wears no armor besides a helmet.

Jaime is too skilled for the Scottish Spartan. The moment Leonidas tries to pop out from behind his shield to attack, Jaime will kill him.
 
Said passage is honestly wild because Jaime mentions Arthur Dayne in it as well who he fanboys over as much as Spidey does Cap yet he still thinks he would win despite worse gear and strength.
I think this passage is to be taken with a grain of salt as far as Arthur Dayne is concerned, if Jaime takes it into account with Dawn. If it was Arthur Dayne without Dawn it would be ok, but with this sword, I don't know I would say beware.

Garlan can beat three or four knights simultaneously
We do not know if the men who face him in these trainings are knights btw
Old Barristan without a weapon can kill two of the three Goldcloaks that try to stop him from leaving
He killed them with a spear and a horse
He could have no diffed the five Kingsguard and the Hound when he is dismissed by Joffrey. When Jaime looks through the Kingsguard book, he says that guys like Trant are good enough to be Kingsguard so it’s not like the other five suck.
Barristan was not talking about Sandor Clegane, only the five members of the Kingsguard present (Arys Oakheart, Mandon Moore, Preston Greenfield, Meryn Trant, Boros Blount), and he had taken off his armor when he threatened them, without that he couldn't have killed all five of them (especially with Mandon Moore who is considered by Jaime to be more dangerous than the others Kingsguard knights thanks to his empty face which does not give away his intentions

Barristan only said that out of anger, because individually he is far superior to them. Even with armor, I don't think Barristan Selmy or Jaime Lannister can kill the other five knights of Robert's Kingsguard single-handedly.
 
I think this passage is to be taken with a grain of salt as far as Arthur Dayne is concerned, if Jaime takes it into account with Dawn. If it was Arthur Dayne without Dawn it would be ok, but with this sword, I don't know I would say beware.
Dawn is a tie breaker in Dayne vs Prime Barry because they are equal otherwise so the one with slightly better gear tips takes the majority. The fact that you agree that Jaime could beat Arthur without Dayne means you agree with Jaime’s belief that he is superior to Arthur.
We do not know if the men who face him in these trainings are knights btw
The Reach is filled with knights and we know that Garlan is trying to push himself as much as he can. Those guys aren’t gonna be peasant levies or random men-at-arms.
He killed them with a spear and a horse
He was heading to the stables when they cornered him, he didn’t have a horse yet. The Goldcloaks (Janos and three others) saw him with an empty scabbard and tried to get him but he dropped them with either one of their knives or his own despite them having spears, cudgels and armor.
Barristan was not talking about Sandor Clegane, only the five members of the Kingsguard present (Arys Oakheart, Mandon Moore, Preston Greenfield, Meryn Trant, Boros Blount), and he had taken off his armor when he threatened them, without that he couldn't have killed all five of them (especially with Mandon Moore who is considered by Jaime to be more dangerous than the others Kingsguard knights thanks to his empty face which does not give away his intentions
Barry was right there as Sandor got named iirc. Why would we discount Barristan’s statement? Unless you have proof or counter evidence that he couldn’t kill them, the word of a veteran knight and legend takes precedence over your headcanon. Jaime considers Mandon to be more dangerous than the rest of the five, not Barristan. Let’s not forget Mandon jumped Tyrion and failed to kill him because of Podrick. Pod is awesome but if Mandon was Barry’s level or even close to it, he would have killed them both.
Barristan only said that out of anger, because individually he is far superior to them. Even with armor, I don't think Barristan Selmy or Jaime Lannister can kill the other five knights of Robert's Kingsguard single-handedly.
Yes, Barry was pissed but that doesn’t discount his words. This isn’t like Jaime saying Arthur could kill Tommen’s KG with his left hand while taking a piss with his right. That’s clearly exaggeration. Loras can kill two KG level knights instantly (one of whom is able to fight against Brienne who can kill several men at once) yet you think Barristan who massively upscales can’t manage it against them?
 
Dawn is a tie breaker in Dayne vs Prime Barry because they are equal otherwise so the one with slightly better gear tips takes the majority. The fact that you agree that Jaime could beat Arthur without Dayne means you agree with Jaime’s belief that he is superior to Arthur.
And Barristan Selmy could beat Arthur Dayne too, and Arthur Dayne can also beat Barristan Selmy, because GRRM said that Arthur vs Barristan is (maybe) a toss-up
So it can also be the case between Jaime and Arthur without Dawn.
The Reach is filled with knights and we know that Garlan is trying to push himself as much as he can. Those guys aren’t gonna be peasant levies or random men-at-arms.
Correct but above all he wants to be able to face several men at the same time, whether they have a high level of skill or not is not specified in the passage of the book (but I am not saying either that he trains against people who have never held weapons in their hands). He can train against knights just as he can train against men-at-arms, and men-at-arms who know how to fight a minimum also exist.
He was heading to the stables when they cornered him, he didn’t have a horse yet. The Goldcloaks (Janos and three others) saw him with an empty scabbard and tried to get him but he dropped them with either one of their knives or his own despite them having spears, cudgels and armor.
Barristan Selmy was already riding against Janos Slynt and three other Goldcloaks. Barristan had a knife, he used it against a Goldcloak to wound it, then he galloped away and he stomped on another Goldcloak that was in his way, he took his spear and killed a other guard.
Barry was right there as Sandor got named iirc.
Sandor Clegane was not yet named, and Barristan speaks well of the five knights of the Kingsguard who were there, not of the other fighters or guards:

"Have no fear, sers, your king is safe... no thanks to you. Even now, I could cut through the five of you as easy as a dagger cuts cheese."

. Jaime considers Mandon to be more dangerous than the rest of the five, not Barristan
Jaime also count Barristan:

"Jaime had once told him that Moore was the most dangerous of the Kingsguard—excepting himself, always—because his face gave no hint as what he might do next"

. Let’s not forget Mandon jumped Tyrion and failed to kill him because of Podrick. Pod is awesome but if Mandon was Barry’s level or even close to it, he would have killed them both.
Podrick Payne attacked Mandon Moore from behind pushing him overboard as he went to stab Tyrion's throat, not in single combat

This isn’t like Jaime saying Arthur could kill Tommen’s KG with his left hand while taking a piss with his right. That’s clearly exaggeration. Loras can kill two KG level knights instantly (one of whom is able to fight against Brienne who can kill several men at once) yet you think Barristan who massively upscales can’t manage it against them?
Without armor and shield against 5 other knights with Mandon Moore included no I don't think Barristan Selmy could have killed them as easily as he said, this is clearly comparable to Jaime Lannister's statement on Arthur Dayne that you mentioned above.
 
And Barristan Selmy could beat Arthur Dayne too, and Arthur Dayne can also beat Barristan Selmy, because GRRM said that Arthur vs Barristan is (maybe) a toss-up
So it can also be the case between Jaime and Arthur without Dawn.
Jaime isn’t saying it’s a toss up between him and Arthur (who always uses Dawn for as long as Jaime has known him), he says he would win straight up. That’s my point of even bringing up the quote as Jaime is the biggest fanboy of Dayne out there and has him on a pedestal compared to everyone else yet he still thinks he is better.
Correct but above all he wants to be able to face several men at the same time, whether they have a high level of skill or not is not specified in the passage of the book (but I am not saying either that he trains against people who have never held weapons in their hands). He can train against knights just as he can train against men-at-arms, and men-at-arms who know how to fight a minimum also exist.
Yes, men-at-arms can fight but going by Garlan’s character and the narrative implication, he is fighting the best people he can which leaves us with either knights or people just as good.
Barristan Selmy was already riding against Janos Slynt and three other Goldcloaks. Barristan had a knife, he used it against a Goldcloak to wound it, then he galloped away and he stomped on another Goldcloak that was in his way, he took his spear and killed a other guard.
You’re thinking of the wrong part. I am talking about the Red Keep’s stables, not Barry at one of the city gates. He got out of the White Sword tower and had to kill some of the Goldcloaks to get his horse and get into the city. He made it to the gate where he charged one and took his spear before killing the man with the spear and leaving the city.
Sandor Clegane was not yet named, and Barristan speaks well of the five knights of the Kingsguard who were there, not of the other fighters or guards:
Sure. And he still had them all shook when he pulled his sword with no armor.
Jaime also count Barristan:
You realise that has nothing to do with skill, right? That’s his personality and appearance that makes him dangerous. Barry doesn’t randomly kill people and has a level of honour despite his hypocrisy. The rest of them are thugs in armor while Jaime can flip his switch on a dime to murder people.
Podrick Payne attacked Mandon Moore from behind pushing him overboard as he went to stab Tyrion's throat, not in single combat
I never said Pod killed him in single combat, I said Pod killed him before he could kill Tyrion. Barry would have killed everyone around them if he felt like it. The very fact that Mandon failed a sneak attack even though he doesn’t give away his attack and died before he could kill a single dwarf tells us he isn’t as good as Barry.
Without armor and shield against 5 other knights with Mandon Moore included no I don't think Barristan Selmy could have killed them as easily as he said, this is clearly comparable to Jaime Lannister's statement on Arthur Dayne that you mentioned above.
The two statements aren’t comparable at all. Barry without armor draws his sword and the KG are terrified. It’s why he tells them to “have no fear”. Jaime is mocking Tommen’s KG and talking about how they have no honour, referencing Aerys’ KG for contrast. Dayne doesn’t fight people while whipping his dick out, Barry very much does kill people without armor.
 
Jaime isn’t saying it’s a toss up between him and Arthur (who always uses Dawn for as long as Jaime has known him), he says he would win straight up. That’s my point of even bringing up the quote as Jaime is the biggest fanboy of Dayne out there and has him on a pedestal compared to everyone else yet he still thinks he is better.
I know he doesn't say that, I'm saying that if Jaime takes Arthur Dayne into account with Dawn in this statement, it's to be taken with a grain of salt. Even if Jaime is an exceptional swordsman, he remains arrogant, so when he says he can beat Arthur Dayne with Dawn, don't take that as an absolute truth (and I'm not saying that being arrogant necessarily means overestimating yourself at every time, but in some cases you have to be careful).

Then yes I say that Jaime Lannister can possibly beat Arthur Dayne without Dawn, but that does not mean that he can also beat him when Arthur Dayne is equipped with Dawn, because Barristan Selmy can also beat Arthur Dayne without Dawn, but not when Arthur has Dawn.

Yes, men-at-arms can fight but going by Garlan’s character and the narrative implication, he is fighting the best people he can which leaves us with either knights or people just as good.
Nothing implies that, he just wants to fight against several fighters at the same time to prepare for a battle, that's all. Of course he trains against people who know how to fight, but nothing says that he only trains with the best when he does this kind of training. That might be the case, but there's no evidence for it.

You’re thinking of the wrong part. I am talking about the Red Keep’s stables, not Barry at one of the city gates. He got out of the White Sword tower and had to kill some of the Goldcloaks to get his horse and get into the city. He made it to the gate where he charged one and took his spear before killing the man with the spear and leaving the city.
That's what I said. Janos Slynt and three gold cloaks attempt to seize Barristan (who is already on horseback) in the stables, Barristan had only one knife so he used it to wound an approaching guard, he galloped to the River's Gate and killed two men (one with a horse and one with a spear) as he fled from the city.

Sure. And he still had them all shook when he pulled his sword with no armor.
Maybe, but none of them showed shock, it was never described. And even if they were scared it absolutely does not mean that they would necessarily have lost, Barristan is extremely skilled so there would necessarily be one of them who would have killed during the fight, so it's normal.

You realise that has nothing to do with skill, right? That’s his personality and appearance that makes him dangerous. Barry doesn’t randomly kill people and has a level of honour despite his hypocrisy. The rest of them are thugs in armor while Jaime can flip his switch on a dime to murder people.
Or did I say the opposite? Of course it's not skill, but you forget that skill is not everything in a fight, and that Mandon Moore also has a lot of skill combined with his unpredictable face, that's why it makes him very dangerous . And that's one of the reasons why Barristan couldn't have defeated the five Kingsguard knights present.

I never said Pod killed him in single combat, I said Pod killed him before he could kill Tyrion. Barry would have killed everyone around them if he felt like it. The very fact that Mandon failed a sneak attack even though he doesn’t give away his attack and died before he could kill a single dwarf tells us he isn’t as good as Barry.
Literally anyone would have died in Mandon Moore's place too. The skill has absolutely nothing to do here. Mandon Moore would have killed Tyrion very easily if Pod hadn't thrown him overboard. Mandon Moore was outfitted head to toe in plate armor on unstable broken ship decks. A simple push and you fall in the water and you drown.

The two statements aren’t comparable at all. Barry without armor draws his sword and the KG are terrified. It’s why he tells them to “have no fear”. Jaime is mocking Tommen’s KG and talking about how they have no honour, referencing Aerys’ KG for contrast. Dayne doesn’t fight people while whipping his dick out, Barry very much does kill people without armor
It's not an equal exaggeration but it remains comparable, close. There is no way Barristan can easily kill 5 Kingsguard knights without armor
 
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The passage you’re thinking of is Jaime internally listing people in Westeros who are physically stronger than him but he finishes the thought that his speed and skill would let him overcome all of them. Said passage is honestly wild because Jaime mentions Arthur Dayne in it as well who he fanboys over as much as Spidey does Cap yet he still thinks he would win despite worse gear and strength.

Based.

Back on topic, Jaime -
  • mows down groups of men who have better armor than the Persians
  • Scales to people that do the same
  • Said armor actually being able to stop his sword in its tracks
  • Loras kills two high tier knights wearing full plate in seconds
  • Garlan can beat three or four knights simultaneously
  • Brienne can beat a dozen knights in the Bitterbridge melee, including Loras
  • Old Barristan without a weapon can kill two of the three Goldcloaks that try to stop him from leaving
  • He could have no diffed the five Kingsguard and the Hound when he is dismissed by Joffrey. When Jaime looks through the Kingsguard book, he says that guys like Trant are good enough to be Kingsguard so it’s not like the other five suck.
  • Sandor can kill four men while surrounded in a 1v12 before dying.
  • Even Bronn who is leagues below Jaime is able to kill a fully equipped knight while wearing no armor, something that is realistically nigh impossible to do irl and is even said by George that people doing that in fiction BS

Compare this to Leonidas who fights guys whose armor (which isn’t even good) is cheese to his sword, has a shield that is meant specifically for the phalanx and group fights, and wears no armor besides a helmet.

Jaime is too skilled for the Scottish Spartan. The moment Leonidas tries to pop out from behind his shield to attack, Jaime will kill him.
can you seen the passage where Jaime says that about his speed and skill and the for the rest I guess fair enough
 
can you seen the passage where Jaime says that about his speed and skill and the for the rest I guess fair enough
“She is stronger than I am. The realization chilled him. Robert had been stronger than him to be sure. The White Bull, Ser Arthur Dayne, Greatjon Umber, Strongboar, both Cleganes for a certainty. The Mountain’s strength was like nothing human. It did not matter. With speed and skill, Jaime could beat them all.”
 
My vote remains with Jaime Lannister, I maintain that he outskill Leonidas:

- Prime Jaime is better than Bronn, Black Lorren and Garlan Tyrell in skill, swordsmen who can hold their own against three or four men simultaneously (and not one by one)

- Should be better than Rogar Baratheon in skill, who is so skilled that despite his exhaustion, weakness and illness he can easily outskill and kill with his double-bladed ax a man armed with spear and shield and in good shape.

- Should be comparable to Barristan Selmy in skill (superior, equal or inferior, we don't really know, but in any case they should have a very close level), who is 61/62 years old easily killed and outskilled with a wooden staff a dangerous killer taller, younger and heavier than him and who was armed with a sword

- Should be superior in skill to the wife of Alaric Stark who, at just 12 years old, attacked a pack of wolves and killed two.

- Should be superior to Steffon Fossoway in skill, who, according to Duncan the Tall (Dunk and Egg stories's protagonist), can find a man's weakness with just a glance

- Should be superior to his uncle Tygett Lannister, who killed four men including a knight, in several battles when he was ten years old, and Josmyn Peckledon, who had killed two knights, wounded a third, and captured two more when he was only fourteen years old during the battle of the Blackwater

- And he should be superior to his ancestor, Tybolt Lannister, who can defeat a knight armed with a shield and a sword, with just a shield

Source
 
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