Hyrule Warriors revision

[XXKINGXX69]

Why the hell is it considered non canon? Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity is literally a hyrule warriors game that is canon, no reason for 1 game to be canon and the other to not. The first game should just be canon in some separate universe, not some completely different continuity, being in a universe separate from all other timelines is not evidence of it being non canon when ganon literally summons people from different timelines.

Here's a revised Link profile and Ganondorf profile and these are stuff from the game alone, someone else can merge the ganon profile with his canon one if it gets accepted as canon. I forgot to update tier and lifting strength

someone else can handle the other profiles (no one cares about Cia), and the planet moving needs a calc

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Age of Calamity does have confirmation to be canon; as it's literally Advertised as the backstory of Breath of the Wild and gives us in depth explanation for how the three timelines got merged into one. But the first Hyrule Warriors doesn't really have any advertisements suggesting it is canon nor is Age of Calamity stated to be a direct sequal to it either.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Age of Calamity being a Hyrule Warriors game does not mean we should also make the first one canon. Age of Calamity actually ties into a specific game in the main timeline(s) and has the excuse of it's events being a result of time travel resulting in another timeline and is completely detached from the first game besides similar gameplay, the first game has goofy shit like Ganondorf being a single entity that exists in all timelines simultaneously somehow when that's not the case in the main series. Also I think we don't use the gauntlet calc since the time of day doesn't even change when the screen flips which means he can't be rotating the planet.

Hyrule Warriors is kinda like the Eyes of Heaven game for JJBA, the events of the main series can be canon to the game but the game isn't canon to the main series.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Age of Calamity does have confirmation to be canon; as it's literally Advertised as the backstory of Breath of the Wild and gives us in depth explanation for how the three timelines got merged into one. But the first Hyrule Warriors doesn't really have any advertisements suggesting it is canon nor is Age of Calamity stated to be a direct sequal to it either.

The question is, why would it be non canon in the first place

Age of Calamity being a Hyrule Warriors game does not mean we should also make the first one canon. Age of Calamity actually ties into a specific game in the main timeline(s) and has the excuse of it's events being a result of time travel resulting in another timeline and is completely detached from the first game besides similar gameplay, the first game has goofy shit like Ganondorf being a single entity that exists in all timelines simultaneously somehow when that's not the case in the main series. Also I think we don't use the gauntlet calc since the time of day doesn't even change when the screen flips which means he can't be rotating the planet.

Hyrule Warriors is kinda like the Eyes of Heaven game for JJBA, the events of the main series can be canon to the game but the game isn't canon to the main series.

Where does it say Ganon is the same person that exists in all timelines simultaneously and even if that were true, why does it contradict the main series? He's usually the same guy across multiple timelines

And I'm saying that if age of calamity is canon, then that means the hyrule warriors series is canon, and all games should be canon unless there's contradictions

Link clearly moves the world, otherwise how would he be doing damage to things around it? It could just be a weird inconsistency where day doesn't turn to night. Imagine we see someone clearly turn the world upside down but it doesn't become nighttime, surely you wouldn't use that to say they just somehow didn't flip it

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The question is, why would it be non canon in the first place

Burden of Proof actually, it being canon in the first place is what requires evidence not the other way around. And actually, when the 1st Hyrule Warriors came out, it seem very specifically stated to be non-canon. Which Age of Calamity is different, it's specifically advertised as a prequel to Breath of the Wild.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Burden of Proof actually, it being canon in the first place is what requires evidence not the other way around. And actually, when the 1st Hyrule Warriors came out, it seem very specifically stated to be non-canon. Which Age of Calamity is different, it's specifically advertised as a prequel to Breath of the Wild.

Where is it stated to be non canon?

No, it would be a positive claim to say its non canon, why would you assume something is non canon just because its a spin off?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

One-sided canon connections are a thing and quite common in fiction. I can think of plenty of times where an animated series or game series was canon to a comic but comic in question wasn't canon to the respective game or animated series. And no, the positive is it being canon, non-canon is a negative.

The Hyrule Encyclopedia does not list Warriors despite listing a bunch of other Zelda games. That, and the creators specifically mentioned in an interview upon the games release that it does not fit into any given timeline.

Also, I have to go to work now.

 

[Dust_Collector]

He's usually the same guy across multiple timelines

Not in the sense that he's literally the exact same person, none of the Ganons across the timelines know about the other timelines or the events happening there, HW Ganon is treated as just one dude who needed to be sealed across all the timelines to be stopped instead of multiple guys who all individually needed to be sealed, and is fully aware of there being different timelines unlike canon Ganon.

And I'm saying that if age of calamity is canon, then that means the hyrule warriors series is canon, and all games should be canon unless there's contradictions

That's not how it works. you can't say that it's canon because another different game is canon.

Link clearly moves the world, otherwise how would he be doing damage to things around it? It could just be a weird inconsistency where day doesn't turn to night. Imagine we see someone clearly turn the world upside down but it doesn't become nighttime, surely you wouldn't use that to say they just somehow didn't flip it

If someone is clearly shown and/or said to turn the world upside down without it being nighttime then sure, but Links case is just a cool looking screen flip with no further context, hell I think there's even an option to turn the screen flip off and have Link still damage foes.

No, it would be a positive claim to say its non canon, why would you assume something is non canon just because its a spin off?

Because said spinoff does nothing that can justify it being canon

 

[XXKINGXX69]

One-sided canon connections are a thing and quite common in fiction. I can think of plenty of times where an animated series or game series was canon to a comic but comic in question wasn't canon to the respective game or animated series. And no, the positive is it being canon, non-canon is a negative.

The Hyrule Encyclopedia does not list Warriors despite listing a bunch of other Zelda games. That, and the creators specifically mentioned in an interview upon the games release that it does not fit into any given timeline.

Also, I have to go to work now.

Yeah but it needs evidence of being one sided. Why is it a positive claim to say that a Zelda game is canon to Zelda?

The hyrule encyclopedia just doesn't list it because it lists games in the main series. It doesn't even mention BS Legend of Zelda, Link's crossbow training, the tingle games

From the interview, he literally says its a different dimension thats separate from the timelines, which contradicts it being non canon, so I think when he said its not canon, he means it doesn't take place in any of the other timelines, but its own dimension. He even says "The universe of Hyrule Warriors really is sort of a different universe and it is connected to the timeline of the Zelda series", which is literally confirmation of it being canon but in a different universe. So what he really meant by "not part of the main canon" is just that it takes place outside of the main timelines So the triforce and ganondorf in this game would still be the same as the others as I don't think there's multiple ganondorf

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Not in the sense that he's literally the exact same person, none of the Ganons across the timelines know about the other timelines or the events happening there, HW Ganon is treated as just one dude who needed to be sealed across all the timelines to be stopped instead of multiple guys who all individually needed to be sealed, and is fully aware of there being different timelines unlike canon Ganon.


That's not how it works. you can't say that it's canon because another different game is canon.


If someone is clearly shown and/or said to turn the world upside down without it being nighttime then sure, but Links case is just a cool looking screen flip with no further context, hell I think there's even an option to turn the screen flip off and have Link still damage foes.


Because said spinoff does nothing that can justify it being canon

Not in the sense that he's literally the exact same person

Scans?

none of the Ganons across the timelines know about the other timelines or the events happening there, HW Ganon is treated as just one dude who needed to be sealed across all the timelines to be stopped instead of multiple guys who all individually needed to be sealed

Wtf are you talking about he is literally the same, he's confirmed to just be the same person breaking out of those seals. Send scans of him being different people throughout the timelines

That's not how it works. you can't say that it's canon because another different game is canon.

Can you re read my comment? "And I'm saying that if age of calamity is canon, then that means the hyrule warriors series is canon, and all games should be canon unless there's contradictions" I didn't say 1 game being canon means another different game is canon, I said the series would be canon

If someone is clearly shown and/or said to turn the world upside down without it being nighttime then sure, but Links case is just a cool looking screen flip with no further context, hell I think there's even an option to turn the screen flip off and have Link still damage foes.

Can you show me the screen flip off? And it sure as hell just isn't the camera flipping without the world flipping, we see that wind moving in a circle. It would be weird for Link to just twist around for no reason and everyone around him takes no damage

Because said spinoff does nothing that can justify it being canon

I think the default assumption is to assume that spin offs are canon. I also posted the interview that confirms it as canon, and that when its said to be not part of the main canon, what it really means is its just separate from the timelines

 

[Dust_Collector]

Wtf are you talking about he is literally the same, he's confirmed to just be the same person breaking out of those seals. Send scans of him being different people throughout the timelines

Anyone with a lick of common sense could see how wrong this is. Wind Waker takes places after the events of Ocarina of Time, he got sealed away in that game and at some other point got sealed away again, that's the the king of red lions is talking about when he says there the very same Ganon, not that he somehow used his very real omniscience to look across timelines and mention the sealing of those games. I try to mean no offense by this, but how on earth are you missing something so blatantly obvious?

Can you re read my comment? "And I'm saying that if age of calamity is canon, then that means the hyrule warriors series is canon, and all games should be canon unless there's contradictions" I didn't say 1 game being canon means another different game is canon, I said the series would be canon

What do you mean you said series would be canon? What series? The main series is already canon everyone knows that for obvious reasons so you can't be talking about that, and if you're saying that the entire Hyrule Warriors series should be canon because one of them is then that's not how it works. Age of Calamity only has the Hyrule Warriors title due to the gameplay, it's not a continuation of the first game it's just it's own thing.

I think the default assumption is to assume that spin offs are canon. I also posted the interview that confirms it as canon, and that when its said to be not part of the main canon, what it really means is its just separate from the timelines

Love the proof of it being canon being an interview saying it's not part of the main canon. It being separate from the main canon and it's timelines is exactly why we don't use HW for anything in the main series.

 

[Transcending]

Agree with Dust and DDM.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Anyone with a lick of common sense could see how wrong this is. Wind Waker takes places after the events of Ocarina of Time, he got sealed away in that game and at some other point got sealed away again, that's the the king of red lions is talking about when he says there the very same Ganon, not that he somehow used his very real omniscience to look across timelines and mention the sealing of those games. I try to mean no offense by this, but how on earth are you missing something so blatantly obvious?


What do you mean you said series would be canon? What series? The main series is already canon everyone knows that for obvious reasons so you can't be talking about that, and if you're saying that the entire Hyrule Warriors series should be canon because one of them is then that's not how it works. Age of Calamity only has the Hyrule Warriors title due to the gameplay, it's not a continuation of the first game it's just it's own thing.


Love the proof of it being canon being an interview saying it's not part of the main canon. It being separate from the main canon and it's timelines is exactly why we don't use HW for anything in the main series.

I don't see how that doesn't prove he isn't the same individual. He does get sealed again, but thats after breaking out of seals. And are you gonna prove the thing about Ganon not being this individual that is the same across all timelines or concede? Ganon's thoughts and emotions can travel through time and space to other dimensions

What do you mean you said series would be canon? What series? The main series is already canon everyone knows that for obvious reasons so you can't be talking about that, and if you're saying that the entire Hyrule Warriors series should be canon because one of them is then that's not how it works. Age of Calamity only has the Hyrule Warriors title due to the gameplay, it's not a continuation of the first game it's just it's own thing.

Why is that not how it works?

Love the proof of it being canon being an interview saying it's not part of the main canon. It being separate from the main canon and it's timelines is exactly why we don't use HW for anything in the main series.

Can you read what I said? What he meant by "not part of the main canon" is that its a different dimension that is literally connected to the main timeline. Its non canon in the sense that its a different universe, but Ganondorf is the same throughout all universes

 

[Dust_Collector]

I don't see how that doesn't prove he isn't the same individual. He does get sealed again, but thats after breaking out of seals. And are you gonna prove the thing about Ganon not being this individual that is the same across all timelines or concede? Ganon's thoughts and emotions can travel through time and space to other dimensions

Because the King of Red Lions is only referring to events that have happened in that timeline, Ganon has broken out of two seals before Wind Waker and that's what's being talked about, the King of Red Lions cannot see into other timelines and also know about him breaking out of seals in A Link to the Past. I don't have to post proof that he's not the same individual across all timelines because you're the one that has to prove he is. The thing about his emotions traveling across time and space or whatever is, again only referring to the events of a single timeline. Ganon is defeated in Twilight Princess than then Four Swords Adventures which happens way later in the same timeline which has the shadow Links (Also no mention of moving across dimensions), something obvious if you read the historia properly instead of just looking at single statements in a vacuum.

Ganon isn't this omnipresent acasual being that exists across all of time like you're trying to make him out to be, at no point is he shown, said, or even slightly implied to see across and act across all 3 timelines simultaneously.

Why is that not how it works?

I already explained it, the story of Age of Calamity has no relation to Hyrule Warriors whatsoever. It's not a sequel that by virtue of being canon also makes the first game canon, it is a game that shows more of the backstory of Breath of the Wild and has it's story elements justified by time travel, the first game is a cool celebration of the series that just throws everything in there for fanservice.

Can you read what I said? What he meant by "not part of the main canon" is that its a different dimension that is literally connected to the main timeline. Its non canon in the sense that its a different universe, but Ganondorf is the same throughout all universes

Yeah, which is why we use stuff from the main series for stats in the game but don't use anything from the game for the main series. Like I said, it's kinda like the Zelda version of Eyes of Heaven.

 

[Chariot190]

Ganon is secretly Lavos lesssgoooo

 

[DaReaperMan]

Isn't Hyrule Warriors being canon or not the least of our concerns? Isn't like, Hyrule Warriors Ganon outdated to complete hell and back along with probably the rest of the files for it?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Because the King of Red Lions is only referring to events that have happened in that timeline, Ganon has broken out of two seals before Wind Waker and that's what's being talked about, the King of Red Lions cannot see into other timelines and also know about him breaking out of seals in A Link to the Past. I don't have to post proof that he's not the same individual across all timelines because you're the one that has to prove he is. The thing about his emotions traveling across time and space or whatever is, again only referring to the events of a single timeline. Ganon is defeated in Twilight Princess than then Four Swords Adventures which happens way later in the same timeline which has the shadow Links (Also no mention of moving across dimensions), something obvious if you read the historia properly instead of just looking at single statements in a vacuum.

Ganon isn't this omnipresent acasual being that exists across all of time like you're trying to make him out to be, at no point is he shown, said, or even slightly implied to see across and act across all 3 timelines simultaneously.


I already explained it, the story of Age of Calamity has no relation to Hyrule Warriors whatsoever. It's not a sequel that by virtue of being canon also makes the first game canon, it is a game that shows more of the backstory of Breath of the Wild and has it's story elements justified by time travel, the first game is a cool celebration of the series that just throws everything in there for fanservice.

If it happened in that timeline, I don't see why it wouldn't be the same in other timelines

I already posted proof that Ganon is the same person across multiple universes, they sealed ganon beyond space and time in OoT, then this same Ganon appears in a different universe in Wind Waker. There is no indication of there being multiple ganons in different universes

Also, I have no idea where you got "omnipresent acausal" ganon from Hyrule Warriors. All that happened was the original hero split him into 3 pieces across space and time into different universes. This isn't necessarily type 3 acausality, just parts of him being sent to other worlds, which has happened in other zelda games. Nothing about this is contradictory

The story of age of calamity not being related is not even relevant here. I'm talking about it making Hyrule Warriors part of the Zelda series, and you should assume by default that all games in the zelda series are part of the same cosmology

Yeah, which is why we use stuff from the main series for stats in the game but don't use anything from the game for the main series. Like I said, it's kinda like the Zelda version of Eyes of Heaven.

This is not a good comparison. One sided canon things like Eyes of Heaven aren't alternate universes, they're just things based on the main canon, in separate cosmologies. When he said "not part of main canon", he means different universe. Its verbatim confirmed to be connected to the main timelines, just not exactly part of it. Things like the Triforce and Ganon should be the same throughout all of them

Isn't Hyrule Warriors being canon or not the least of our concerns? Isn't like, Hyrule Warriors Ganon outdated to complete hell and back along with probably the rest of the files for it?

I reworked the profiles, its still missing minor stuff though, like phantom ganon

 

[Dust_Collector]

I already posted proof that Ganon is the same person across multiple universes, they sealed ganon beyond space and time in OoT, then this same Ganon appears in a different universe in Wind Waker. There is no indication of there being multiple ganons in different universes

No, you posted 0 proof you just made it up. He wasn't sealed beyond space and time in OOT he was sealed in the Sacred Realm. The same Ganon appearing in Wind Waker is because that's how the timeline works, it splits because either Link beats him and he sealed away with only one piece of the Triforce (Leading into WW), Ganon defeats Link and is sealed away with the entire Triforce (Leading into ALTTP), or he's executed and sealed away into the Twilight realm before the events of OOT even happen (Leading to TP). Wind Waker calling him the very same Ganon is only referring to that version of Ganon in Wind Waker being the same as he was hundreds of years prior in that same timeline.

Everyone knows that the 3 separate timelines and their separate events have their own versions of Ganon, but you're insistent on making things up like the King of Red Lions having cosmic awareness to justify what he says as meaning Ganon is basically Lavos.

Also, I have no idea where you got "omnipresent acausal" ganon from Hyrule Warriors. All that happened was the original hero split him into 3 pieces across space and time into different universes. This isn't necessarily type 3 acausality, just parts of him being sent to other worlds, which has happened in other zelda games. Nothing about this is contradictory

The game treats Ganondorf as a singular entity that has done everything in all timelines instead of different versions existing in their own timelines. Plus you've been arguing that Ganon is some kinda acausal this whole time by claiming that different versions of him don't exist and that he's the exact same entity acting across 3 timelines simultaneously.

Also the clip you posted to claim parts of Ganon being sent to other timelines has happened in other games is just him being sealed into a single world within the same timeline where he isn't split apart.

The story of age of calamity not being related is not even relevant here. I'm talking about it making Hyrule Warriors part of the Zelda series, and you should assume by default that all games in the zelda series are part of the same cosmology

You sound like you're unironically gonna start saying the CDI games are also canon at this point.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

No, you posted 0 proof you just made it up. He wasn't sealed beyond space and time in OOT he was sealed in the Sacred Realm. The same Ganon appearing in Wind Waker is because that's how the timeline works, it splits because either Link beats him and he sealed away with only one piece of the Triforce (Leading into WW), Ganon defeats Link and is sealed away with the entire Triforce (Leading into ALTTP), or he's executed and sealed away into the Twilight realm before the events of OOT even happen (Leading to TP). Wind Waker calling him the very same Ganon is only referring to that version of Ganon in Wind Waker being the same as he was hundreds of years prior in that same timeline.

Everyone knows that the 3 separate timelines and their separate events have their own versions of Ganon, but you're insistent on making things up like the King of Red Lions having cosmic awareness to justify what he says as meaning Ganon is basically Lavos.


The game treats Ganondorf as a singular entity that has done everything in all timelines instead of different versions existing in their own timelines. Plus you've been arguing that Ganon is some kinda acausal this whole time by claiming that different versions of him don't exist and that he's the exact same entity acting across 3 timelines simultaneously.

Also the clip you posted to claim parts of Ganon being sent to other timelines has happened in other games is just him being sealed into a single world within the same timeline where he isn't split apart.


You sound like you're unironically gonna start saying the CDI games are also canon at this point.

Wind Waker takes place in a different universe from OOT, idk where you got same timeline from

The game treats Ganondorf as a singular entity that has done everything in all timelines instead of different versions existing in their own timelines.

I asked for evidence of this, but you didn't send it so you're wrong

Also the clip you posted to claim parts of Ganon being sent to other timelines has happened in other games is just him being sealed into a single world within the same timeline where he isn't split apart.

Again, how does being split apart in hyrule warriors contradict the main canon? This has 0 correlation with canon. I asked you why earlier, and you refused to respond to it which is pretty odd

You sound like you're unironically gonna start saying the CDI games are also canon at this point.

This is not a refute. If you don't have an actual rebuttal, just don't say anything or concede

 

[Dust_Collector]

Wind Waker takes place in a different universe from OOT, idk where you got same timeline from

OOT happens in the same timeline as WW, it's a direct sequel that only happens because Link defeats Ganon at the end of OOT.

I asked for evidence of this, but you didn't send it so you're wrong

My evidence is the actual game itself, it treats all Ganons as the same person at no point does it even attempt to distinguish him between the different timelines and has him acting as a singular entity.

Again, how does being split apart in hyrule warriors contradict the main canon? This has 0 correlation with canon

Your point in bringing that up was that what happened to Ganon in Hyrule Warriors also happened in other games, I pointed out that it didn't happen.

This is not a refute. If you don't have an actual rebuttal, just don't say anything or concede

I've already refuted, you just keep saying nuh uh it is canon because other Zelda games are canon, and I'm really getting tired of trying to explain why a game that is well known for not being canon, isn't actually canon.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

OOT happens in the same timeline as WW, it's a direct sequel that only happens because Link defeats Ganon at the end of OOT.


My evidence is the actual game itself, it treats all Ganons as the same person at no point does it even attempt to distinguish him between the different timelines and has him acting as a singular entity.


Your point in bringing that up was that what happened to Ganon in Hyrule Warriors also happened in other games, I pointed out that it didn't happen.


I've already refuted, you just keep saying nuh uh it is canon because other Zelda games are canon, and I'm really getting tired of trying to explain why a game that is well known for not being canon, isn't actually canon.

Why does same timeline = same universe?

My evidence is the actual game itself, it treats all Ganons as the same person at no point does it even attempt to distinguish him between the different timelines and has him acting as a singular entity.

This never happened

Your point in bringing that up was that what happened to Ganon in Hyrule Warriors also happened in other games, I pointed out that it didn't happen.

Being sealed in a different universe is pretty similar to what happened

I've already refuted, you just keep saying nuh uh it is canon because other Zelda games are canon, and I'm really getting tired of trying to explain why a game that is well known for not being canon, isn't actually canon.

You didn't even explain why ganon being sealed across different timelines contradicts canon, you just said "it does". You didn't refute my point when I proved Hyrule Warriors was verbatim stated to be a different dimension connected to the main timeline, which means Ganon and the Triforce would be the same person throughout them

Even if what you were saying about how Ganon is an acausal being who is the same throughout all timelines in Hyrule Warriors and the same is never stated in the main series, it is not a contradiction. It would just mean that this is new information only from Hyrule Warriors. Not all new information contradicts canon, it only adds on to it. There is nothing that confirms he is a different person in different universes

 

[Dust_Collector]

Why does same timeline = same universe?

I don't even know what you're asking here. OOT happens, hundreds of years go by, WW happens, they don't happen in different universes, the entire population of the world doesn't just hop into a different universe between the games.

Being sealed in a different universe is pretty similar to what happened

But that wasn't your point, you said being split apart and sealed into different timelines has happened in other games, your point wasn't actually that he sealed away like in other games (Which means nothing anyway, may as well say Ganondorf is beaten by Link which is similar to the canon games so that means HW is also canon)

You didn't even explain why ganon being sealed across different timelines contradicts canon, you just said "it does". You didn't refute my point when I proved Hyrule Warriors was verbatim stated to be a different dimension connected to the main timeline, which means Ganon and the Triforce would be the same person throughout them

The fact that the game is a different dimension not connected to the main canon is exactly why Ganon isn't the same as the main series versions. Nobody is refuting it's in a different dimension, just that it has no effect on the canon timelines like you think it does.

Even if what you were saying about how Ganon is an acausal being who is the same throughout all timelines in Hyrule Warriors and the same is never stated in the main series, it is not a contradiction. It would just mean that this is new information only from Hyrule Warriors. Not all new information contradicts canon, it only adds on to it. There is nothing that confirms he is a different person in different universes

Except it would be a contradiction, we know for a fact that none of the Ganons in the main series are aware of other timelines. TP Ganondorf has no idea that that there's a timeline where he ruled Hyrule for 7 years only to be defeated (Or defeat) a time traveling elf child, Ganon isn't the exact same person fighting WW Link and ALTTP Link at the same time and is fully aware of it, this is common knowledge and your proof is that a game explicitly said not to be connected to the main canon is actually secretly connected to the main canon and that the King of Red Lions is this omnicscent being that can see across timelines and that when he tells WW Link that the Ganon he's facing is the exact same as the one from the past he's actually talking about other timelines.

Also you're saying there's no proof Ganondorf is an acasual being that's the same in all timelines in Hyrule Warriors, but you're arguing the main series Ganon is an acasual being that's the same in all timelines in the main canon?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I don't even know what you're asking here. OOT happens, hundreds of years go by, WW happens, they don't happen in different universes, the entire population of the world doesn't just hop into a different universe between the games.


But that wasn't your point, you said being split apart and sealed into different timelines has happened in other games, your point wasn't actually that he sealed away like in other games (Which means nothing anyway, may as well say Ganondorf is beaten by Link which is similar to the canon games so that means HW is also canon)


The fact that the game is a different dimension not connected to the main canon is exactly why Ganon isn't the same as the main series versions. Nobody is refuting it's in a different dimension, just that it has no effect on the canon timelines like you think it does.


Except it would be a contradiction, we know for a fact that none of the Ganons in the main series are aware of other timelines. TP Ganondorf has no idea that that there's a timeline where he ruled Hyrule for 7 years only to be defeated (Or defeat) a time traveling elf child, Ganon isn't the exact same person fighting WW Link and ALTTP Link at the same time and is fully aware of it, this is common knowledge and your proof is that a game explicitly said not to be connected to the main canon is actually secretly connected to the main canon and that the King of Red Lions is this omnicscent being that can see across timelines and that when he tells WW Link that the Ganon he's facing is the exact same as the one from the past he's actually talking about other timelines.

Also you're saying there's no proof Ganondorf is an acasual being that's the same in all timelines in Hyrule Warriors, but you're arguing the main series Ganon is an acasual being that's the same in all timelines in the main canon?

You do realise WW and OoT happen in different timelines? Ganon is stated to be the same person throughout all timelines, except for 1.

The fact that the game is a different dimension not connected to the main canon is exactly why Ganon isn't the same as the main series versions. Nobody is refuting it's in a different dimension, just that it has no effect on the canon timelines like you think it does.

Yeah but Ganon is usually the same person throughout timelines, so its best to assume he's the same in this separate dimension. As mentioned before, games like the Legend of Zelda and Twilight Princess are in entirely different universes, yet the Ganon there is the same. It doesn't say "reincarnations of ganon", just ganon

Except it would be a contradiction, we know for a fact that none of the Ganons in the main series are aware of other timelines

Maybe this Ganon just gained the ability to know of other timelines? Not a contradiction, just a new ability. Might as well say Ganon in Wind Waker isn't shown to have the ability to shoot lightning and TP does, therefore they are different canons

the King of Red Lions is this omnicscent being that can see across timelines and that when he tells WW Link that the Ganon he's facing is the exact same as the one from the past he's actually talking about other timelines.

None of what I said means he has omniscience at all

Also you're saying there's no proof Ganondorf is an acasual being that's the same in all timelines in Hyrule Warriors, but you're arguing the main series Ganon is an acasual being that's the same in all timelines in the main canon?

Maybe you would understand if you had actually tried to read what I said. I said "Even if what you were saying about how Ganon is an acausal being who is the same throughout all timelines in Hyrule Warriors and the same is never stated in the main series", not that I actually agreed with it

 

[Dust_Collector]

You do realise WW and OoT happen in different timelines? Ganon is stated to be the same person throughout all timelines, except for 1.

No, OOT and WW happen in the same timeline, the game makes this clear several times even the intro of WW is about how the Hero of Time showed up and clapped Ganon. The four games that happen before the split are part of all 3 timelines (The only exception being anything that happens after Link meets Zelda in OOT is different in the child timeline). Even the timeline you posted points out that the timeline Wind Waker takes place is the one where Link defeats Ganondorf in OOT.

And no, he is not stated to be the same person throughout all timelines. He is not said to be a single entity that exists simultaneously in 3 different timelines.

Yeah but Ganon is usually the same person throughout timelines, so its best to assume he's the same in this separate dimension. As mentioned before, games like the Legend of Zelda and Twilight Princess are in entirely different universes, yet the Ganon there is the same. It doesn't say "reincarnations of ganon", just ganon

He's the only person in the vein that with on exception, he doesn't stay dead and back back as a different version like Link does, not that he's basically Lavos or Solaris and is just one person existing in multiple points in time at once.

Maybe this Ganon just gained the ability to know of other timelines? Not a contradiction, just a new ability. Might as well say Ganon in Wind Waker isn't shown to have the ability to shoot lightning and TP does, therefore they are different canons

It's just one of the many contradictions that add up to make no sense for him being the same person as his canon self.

None of what I said means he has omniscience at all

Then why are you arguing that what the King of Red Lion says about Ganon means that Ganon is the exact same being across all timelines? You have to be arguing he's some cosmically aware being that can see across timelines otherwise you never would have used him as proof.

Maybe you would understand if you had actually tried to read what I said. I said "Even if what you were saying about how Ganon is an acausal being who is the same throughout all timelines in Hyrule Warriors and the same is never stated in the main series", not that I actually agreed with it

I have read what you said, you say right here that you not agree with Ganon being an acausal being who is the same throughout all timelines, even admitting it's never stated in the main series.

So why do you keep arguing that he's the same being throughout all timelines if you don't agree with it?

 

[XXKINGXX69]

No, OOT and WW happen in the same timeline, the game makes this clear several times even the intro of WW is about how the Hero of Time showed up and clapped Ganon. The four games that happen before the split are part of all 3 timelines (The only exception being anything that happens after Link meets Zelda in OOT is different in the child timeline). Even the timeline you posted points out that the timeline Wind Waker takes place is the one where Link defeats Ganondorf in OOT.

And no, he is not stated to be the same person throughout all timelines. He is not said to be a single entity that exists simultaneously in 3 different timelines.


He's the only person in the vein that with on exception, he doesn't stay dead and back back as a different version like Link does, not that he's basically Lavos or Solaris and is just one person existing in multiple points in time at once.


It's just one of the many contradictions that add up to make no sense for him being the same person as his canon self.


Then why are you arguing that what the King of Red Lion says about Ganon means that Ganon is the exact same being across all timelines? You have to be arguing he's some cosmically aware being that can see across timelines otherwise you never would have used him as proof.


I have read what you said, you say right here that you not agree with Ganon being an acausal being who is the same throughout all timelines, even admitting it's never stated in the main series.

So why do you keep arguing that he's the same being throughout all timelines if you don't agree with it?

And no, he is not stated to be the same person throughout all timelines. He is not said to be a single entity that exists simultaneously in 3 different timelines.

I just sent a scan of him being stated to be the same person throughout all timelines, and even if what you said about how he can't exist simultaneously across timelines, he can just be travelling to those timelines instead of type 3 acausality.

He's the only person in the vein that with on exception, he doesn't stay dead and back back as a different version like Link does, not that he's basically Lavos or Solaris and is just one person existing in multiple points in time at once.

Again why does this matter, all of the games take place in different time periods

It's just one of the many contradictions that add up to make no sense for him being the same person as his canon self.

Elaborate on why its a contradiction and not just new info

I have read what you said, you say right here that you not agree with Ganon being an acausal being who is the same throughout all timelines, even admitting it's never stated in the main series.

This is not me agreeing with you, this is just me giving another explanation even if you were right about that

So why do you keep arguing that he's the same being throughout all timelines if you don't agree with it?

I didn't say he had to be existing in all timelines at the exact same time, he could just be the same person in all timelines because he travels there

You also haven't proved that Hyrule Warriors states Ganon is the same person existing in all timelines at the same time, and haven't proved it would be a contradiction even if it was stated, because if it was stated, nothing in the main series would contradict it. You Everytime I ask for evidence, you just say "the whole game", which is not evidence. I could easily say "in Ocarina of time when Ganon was kissing zelda, he stated he can destroy the multiverse and I refuse to give scans just believe me bro" and you wouldn't believe me. This is an informal fallacy, when you can't refute something so you try and distract me by bringing up different points

 

[Dust_Collector]

I just sent a scan of him being stated to be the same person throughout all timelines, and even if what you said about how he can't exist simultaneously across timelines, he can just be travelling to those timelines instead of type 3 acausality.

Your scan says nothing of the sort, I already explained what him being the same person means and the series itself makes it clear. Also now you're chaging the argument to Ganon is just moving between timelines? Nothing even remotely implies that's what he does, hell Ocarina of Time has 2 different endings where Ganon is defeated by Link and another where he kills Link and gets the complete Triforce which leads into the creation of 2 different timelines. Four Swords Adventures has a new Ganon that's not the same one from OOT yet the downfall timeline still has the same Ganon that was from OOT, by all means explain how the original Ganon can be permanently dead in one timeline yet somehow travel to another timeline and be alive and well where he apparently already beat Link before he even came to that timeline.

Again why does this matter, all of the games take place in different time periods

What even is your point here? I said Ganon is the same because he doesn't die and become a new person like Link does (Only exception being Four Swords Adventures), what do the games being in different time periods have to do with that?

This is not me agreeing with you, this is just me giving another explanation even if you were right about that

???

"I said "Even if what you were saying about how Ganon is an acausal being who is the same throughout all timelines in Hyrule Warriors and the same is never stated in the main series", not that I actually agreed with it"

So what are you even arguing, I said that Ganon isn't the exact same singular being across all timelines, you keep arguing he is but actually that you actually agreed with it, only to agree with it anyway since you don't agree with me that he's the same person. I can't tell if you're changing your arguments or if you're just wording everything you say very badly.

I didn't say he had to be existing in all timelines at the exact same time, he could just be the same person in all timelines because he travels there

Cool, you haven't shown a single thing that even remotely implies that he's the same because he can somehow travel across timelines.

You also haven't proved that Hyrule Warriors states Ganon is the same person existing in all timelines at the same time, and haven't proved it would be a contradiction even if it was stated, because if it was stated, nothing in the main series would contradict it. You Everytime I ask for evidence, you just say "the whole game", which is not evidence. I could easily say "in Ocarina of time when Ganon was kissing zelda, he stated he can destroy the multiverse and I refuse to give scans just believe me bro" and you wouldn't believe me. This is an informal fallacy, when you can't refute something so you try and distract me by bringing up different points

I'm not trying to distract you from anything, I'm getting annoyed because you don't understand how basic canon works and keep trying to force a game explictly said to not be a part of the main canon into the canon. But sure I decided to check the cutscenes for Hyrule Warriors.

So Link defeats Ganon across the ages, however they treat the great evil (Ganon) being sealed away across time and space as the final nail in the coffin for him. Note how they don't make it so that a single version of Ganondorf from one timeline is defeated and sealed, but how during one of the battle in the ages this is the one that stops the evil, not a version of the evil, but just the evil. And as shown later the ages includes stuff like Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, and when the different eras are merged this includes the adult portion of Ocarina of Time as Zelda recognizes it as his era and it includes the era of Twilight Princess, neither of which exist within the same timeline as the events of the adult part of OOT are prevented before they even happen in the timeline TP takes place in.

The game treats the evil that exists in the ages as a single being that eventually got split up and sealed during one of his battles with Link, not just one specific version, they just say that in one such battle across the ages, the evil (Not one version of it) is split by the hero. This either means the game treats Ganon as a singular being across all the timelines (Which doesn't work with the canon as I've explained several times), or it treats the eras of the series all 3 timelines are actually just 1 to explain why this games history only has 1 Ganon (Which also doesn't work with the canon).

 

[Dust_Collector]

You would really think the interview where Aonuma straight up says it doesn't exist as part of the main canon would be enough but apparently not.