Jonathan Joestar vs CLOWN KILLS YOU!

[Comiphorous]

Jonathan Joestar vs Tricky the Clown​

• Jonathan is in his pre-deep sea key, 8-C (scales to 0.40 tons)
• Tricky is in his base, 8-C (scales to 0.42 tons)
• Speed is equalized
• Battle takes place outside in a suburban city
• Win via Death

Jojo: 0

Tricky: 0

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Nice to see madness combat got a big upgrade

About the battle, don't trick to go move against people that aren't Hank and his friend teleknesses?

 

[Comiphorous]

About the battle, don't trick to go move against people that aren't Hank and his friend teleknesses?

his starting move consists of guns and CQC most of the time iirc

telekinesis is his starting move in demon form, to drop buildings on people.

 

[Comiphorous]

due to SBA they are 10 meters apart, so he'll probably lead with CQC here.

 

[Chariot190]

8-C (scales to 0.36 tons)

0.40 actually, not that it changes anything given that's negligible.

 

[Comiphorous]

0.40 actually, not that it changes anything given that's negligible.

yeah, still negligible. it wont change the outcome anyways.

 

[Alexander]

wait what kind of death? I mean if tricky dies he can still be revived by the superior forces of nevada, or the improbability drive

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Well, trick is probable more skilled them jhonathan, especially pre-deep sea and hamon will have a hard time doing significant damage into a undead, trough will work great to damage the probability drive on his head

 

[Comiphorous]

wait what kind of death? I mean if tricky dies he can still be revived by the superior forces of nevada, or the improbability drive

Death. Jonathan needs to kill Tricky to win, and tricky needs to kill jonathan to win. any means necessary.

Well, trick is probable more skilled them jhonathan, especially pre-deep sea and hamon will have a hard time doing significant damage into a undead, trough will work great to damage the probability drive on his head

Likely, yes. i dont believe jonathan will have that hard of a time dealing with tricky's type 2 immortality, i mean, he deals with that all the time with vampires an zombies.

damaging the probability drive is a valid wincon, but im unsure how likely it is for jonathan to go straight for the head, or to scramble his 'brain', which would damage the drive.

 

[Alexander]

Death. Jonathan needs to kill Tricky to win, and tricky needs to kill jonathan to win. any means necessary.

Likely, yes. i dont believe jonathan will have that hard of a time dealing with tricky's type 2 immortality, i mean, he deals with that all the time with vampires an zombies.

damaging the probability drive is a valid wincon, but im unsure how likely it is for jonathan to go straight for the head, or to scramble his 'brain', which would damage the drive.

I think it would be difficult for Jonathan to do that, since tricky could throw cubes and alter reality to launch attacks or teleport, plus tricky is constantly evolving to be more powerful,thanks to plot armor

 

[Chariot190]

but im unsure how likely it is for jonathan to go straight for the head, or to scramble his 'brain', which would damage the drive.

I'd say almost 100% guaranteed, every enemy Jonathan has ever fought has a critical weakness of head destruction and thus, almost always makes an attempt to attack said head, and this dude doesn't look much different than a zombie. You can safely assume Jonathan would aim for head damage above all other body parts.

 

[Comiphorous]

I think it would be difficult for Jonathan to do that, since tricky could throw cubes and alter reality to launch attacks or teleport, plus tricky is constantly evolving to be more powerful,thanks to plot armor

10 meters apart, tricky is going to start with CQC plus he attempts to play atleast somewhat fair (waiting for hank to face him before attacking, giving hank weapons, giving sandford guns and melee weapons, ect). his portable drive stuff isn't really combat applicable. doesn't start with dropping buildings on people. plot armor is not a real ability tricky has.

I'd say almost 100% guaranteed, every enemy Jonathan has ever fought has a critical weakness of head destruction and thus, almost always makes an attempt to attack said head, and this dude doesn't look much different than a zombie. You can safely assume Jonathan would aim for head damage above all other body parts.

aight cool, nice to know

 

[Chariot190]

It should be noted, Jonathan can channel Hamon through things, SBA is Central Park, which isn't optimal, but has some good shit.
Grass and other planet life can conduct Hamon so Jonathan has some ok range and it can even store it. Things like concrete and rock can't store Hamon, but it can be passed through it, much like the time he sent a small charge through a small cliff face. Can pass through metal as well, and liquid can also channel and store it, though Jonathan has slight issues focusing Hamon (hence his sloppy water walking).

Though, as this is Pre-Training Jonathan and this dude isn't weak to sunlight, we don't really know how potent Jonathan's lethality is to nonundead or what his full ability list looks like, as the organ failure and all that is from way higher dudes. All we know is that he probably has mind hax given he mind haxed Wang with a tiny bit of Hamon after being reduced to a weaker state (weaker then he is in this match), and when he used that small Hamon dose on Poco he thought he accidentally messed with his mind by mistake (he actually broke him out of Dio's mind control, but the thought he accidentally mind haxed tells us he has it at that point). Oh, I guess he can also induce temporary unconsciousness and sleep given Joseph while growing up and never having trained Hamon before was stated his weak Hamon can KO and put animals to sleep. But that's kinda it, mindhax and brief KO/sleep hax is the only real hax he has against non vampires in this key.

 

[Comiphorous]

It should be noted, Jonathan can channel Hamon through things, SBA is Central Park, which isn't optimal, but has some good shit.
Grass and other planet life can conduct Hamon so Jonathan has some ok range and it can even store it. Things like concrete and rock can't store Hamon, but it can be passed through it, much like the time he sent a small charge through a small cliff face. Can pass through metal as well, and liquid can also channel and store it, though Jonathan has slight issues focusing Hamon (hence his sloppy water walking).

The battle takes place outside in nevada. (though i can change the place if its too one sided for tricky)

 

[Chariot190]

That's a really bad place for Hamon dudes, cuts out like half the powerset of what Jonathan has.
A fair place would be like a suburban place, some plant life, maybe a stream, but buildings and what not.
An unfair place in Jonathan's advantage would be like a jungle, or a lush beach.

One of Hamon's main attributes is the ability to channel and store Hamon into objects and through.
Living organisms like plant life, animals and what not can be imbued and stored with Hamon.
Liquids as well.

Inorganic things like rock and metal can have Hamon pass through it directly, but it can't hold a charge or store it, limiting it drastically.

So idk, do as you please I guess.

 

[Comiphorous]

That's a really bad place for Hamon dudes, cuts out like half the powerset of what Jonathan has.

actually, isn't the sun dead in Nevada? i don't think Jonathan could even use hamon in this case

I've changed the battle place to a suburban city.

 

[Chariot190]

No, Hamon doesn't need the sun, it mimics it but it doesn't need it at all, partly the point actually, they use it to fight vampires and things in places where there would be no sun.

What they do need is oxygen tho, they create Hamon by breathing.

 

[Comiphorous]

No, Hamon doesn't need the sun, it mimics it but it doesn't need it at all, partly the point actually, they use it to fight vampires and things in places where there would be no sun.

What they do need is oxygen tho, they create Hamon by breathing.

improbability drive turns the air into whales

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Don't really see how the cenario having little to no plant life is a matter, he still can pass hamon trough the floor and Jhonathan never used the "otganic things store hamon" in a real fight if I remenber correctly

I would give It to trick, not only he is more skilled, has more mobility options and hamon fuckery really don't work into trick thanks to not having sunlight weakness and not beingh alive, jhonathan only real chance is hitting all punchs into trick head untill his probability drive there breaks, while trick outskill and outmanouver his weaker hamon, and isn't like he know there is a thing inside trick head that ressurect him all the time

 

[Chariot190]

Don't really see how the cenario having little to no plant life is a matter, he still can pass hamon trough the floor and Jhonathan never used the "otganic things store hamon" in a real fight if I remenber correctly

I mean, it matters greatly, it's literally half his power set. And you're partially right, Jonathan was gimped in almost every fight he was in, he only ever got to use the plant tech against Dio because there was some roses near by, his 3 major fights took place in a tunnel, a cliff and a castle. Though everytime some plants popped up he did use them in various ways. Same with liquids, such as when he fought Bruford in the lake.

I would give It to trick, not only he is more skilled, has more mobility options and hamon fuckery really don't work into trick thanks to not having sunlight weakness and not beingh alive,

I should remind you, the only thing the sunlight weakness does is vaporization, every other aspect of Hamon would work still.

jhonathan only real chance is hitting all punchs into trick head untill his probability drive there breaks, while trick outskill and outmanouver his weaker hamon, and isn't like he know there is a thing inside trick head that ressurect him all the time

Not inherently, Jonathan still has mindhax, ko and sleep hax, the former can incap, the latter two can also incap in order for Jonathan to get up close and finish him off.
Jonathan also doesn't need to know there's a thing in his head as Jonathan would all but assume he's a zombie that would need his head destroyed regardless, he'd aim for the head and try to destroy it based on visuals let alone that being where Jonathan tends to aim anyway (Actually, if you go back and check, almost every attack he landed on a zombie was aimed at the head, Bruford, Tarkus, Wang, Dio, etc).

 

[Comiphorous]

bump

 

[JustANormalLemon]

I mean, trough this makes sense jhonathan isn't in character using any hax

 

[Chariot190]

He used mind hax multiple times in combat though? And KO is a passive thing.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

He used mind hax multiple times in combat though?

he did? whem?

And KO is a passive thing

With KO you mean knockout?

 

[Chariot190]

Wang right before he died to make him hold the steam shaft, and against Doobie (****** with the snakes' mind so they went and bit their master, pumping him full of hamon killing him). Also basically says he can do it after Jack too.

Yes, Hamon can induce temporary loss of consciousness.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Wang right before he died to make him hold the steam shaft, and against Doobie (****** with the snakes' mind so they went and bit their master, pumping him full of hamon killing him). Also basically says he can do it after Jack too.

Wasn't both of this times unconsious?

Yes, Hamon can induce temporary loss of consciousness.

Ok, but eould that work on trick?

 

[Chariot190]

Wasn't both of this times unconsious?

No idea what you're saying here?

Ok, but eould that work on trick?

If he doesn't resist it yeah.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

No idea what you're saying here?

Like, Jhonathan didn't used It willing, It kinda just happened (and was after his hamon got strongher)

If he doesn't resist it yeah.

He kinda is dead and has a machine were his brain should be, he can have half of his head cutted and don't get knocked out

 

[Chariot190]

Like, Jhonathan didn't used It willing, It kinda just happened (and was after his hamon got strongher)

What? Yes he did? Both times he actively went out of his way to do for a desired result (That being to kill Doobie via snakes and to stop the ship and kill everything onboard).

He kinda is dead and has a machine were his brain should be, he can have half of his head cutted and don't get knocked out

Being dead isn't gonna help, this works on zombies. And Type 2 Immortality isn't gonna help. A machine maybe, but that depends, is it ENTIRELY mechanical, or only partially? Instead of thinking of this as ko, think of it as forced sleep inducement (Joseph describes it like that).

 

[JustANormalLemon]

What? Yes he did? Both times he actively went out of his way to do for a desired result (That being to kill Doobie via snakes and to stop the ship and kill everything onboard).

I'n not sure about Doobie, but the snakes one he only desoriented the vampire sense and for his luck he holded the mechanics of the ship

A machine maybe, but that depends, is it ENTIRELY mechanical, or only partially? Instead of thinking of this as ko, think of it as forced sleep inducement (Joseph describes it like that).

The probability drive is entirely mechanical and we never saw If trick still has a brain or not, but sinse no signals of brain were saw whem he lost the top of his head he probable only has the machine on It's place

 

[Chariot190]

I'n not sure about Doobie, but the snakes one he only desoriented the vampire sense and for his luck he holded the mechanics of the ship

Except that isn't what happened, either time.
It isn't luck, he blatantly wanted Wang to hold the mechanism in place to stop Dio from ever making landfall - killing everything on board so the world didn't end, never once was it implied it was luck, in fact Dio straight up states the Hamon ****** with Wang's mind. In fact, Jonathan himself states that he can't even kill a zombie in his state, but, what he will do is good enough. Dio then says that instead of destroying him, Jonathan opted to mess with his mind and Wang is being controlled into grabbing the mechanism. Jonathan then tells Erina that he's gonna make the ship explode through Wang.
And the snakes? Jonathan himself straight up says what he's gonna do before he even does it.



"I'll send in a little Hamon to make the snakes go crazy". Aka, he deliberately and consciously chose to induce madness in them via Hamon.

The probability drive is entirely mechanical and we never saw If trick still has a brain or not, but sinse no signals of brain were saw whem he lost the top of his head he probable only has the machine on It's place

You don't sound so sure, I didn't ask if the drive was mechanical, that's obvious, but we don't need to see if he has a brain or not to assume he has one, we need reason to believe he doesn't have one at all. Is he cybernetic? If he's cybernetic it stands to reason some of it is organic still.

I should also mention, Hamon can be conducted through metals (See Jonathan's own Metal Overdrive).

 

[Comiphorous]

man, and i was originally going to make this a joseph vs tricky fight

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Except that isn't what happened, either time.
It isn't luck, he blatantly wanted Wang to hold the mechanism in place to stop Dio from ever making landfall - killing everything on board so the world didn't end, never once was it implied it was luck, in fact Dio straight up states the Hamon ****** with Wang's mind. In fact, Jonathan himself states that he can't even kill a zombie in his state, but, what he will do is good enough. Dio then says that instead of destroying him, Jonathan opted to mess with his mind and Wang is being controlled into grabbing the mechanism. Jonathan then tells Erina that he's gonna make the ship explode through Wang.
And the snakes? Jonathan himself straight up says what he's gonna do before he even does it.



"I'll send in a little Hamon to make the snakes go crazy". Aka, he deliberately and consciously chose to induce madness in them via Hamon.



You don't sound so sure, I didn't ask if the drive was mechanical, that's obvious, but we don't need to see if he has a brain or not to assume he has one, we need reason to believe he doesn't have one at all. Is he cybernetic? If he's cybernetic it stands to reason some of it is organic still.

I should also mention, Hamon can be conducted through metals (See Jonathan's own Metal Overdrive).

Ok them, good to know

and I know metal can conduct hamon

well, back to the start, so Jhonathan has the hax's to keep up with trick skill, trough still kinda dificult to say if trick would even get KO, one for the probability drive on his head and second thanks to the fact the same device could just wake him up, trough might be a strech? can't really tell and all the mentioned above feats were made during his second key, so we can't say if Jhonathan in his first one would be strongh enough to use this haxs

but trick outskill the likes of Hank to the point where hank really could only hit trick whem the clow was plaing around during the battle(at least whem they were meele fighting) so there is even the chance that jhonathan be unable to touch Trick

 

[Chariot190]

can't really tell and all the mentioned above feats were made during his second key, so we can't say if Jhonathan in his first one would be strongh enough to use this haxs

It's hax lad, not AP, we know he has these abilities in his first key because he straight up mentions having them in his first key, it's why i mentioned mindhax in particular. As well as Joseph having them while growing up (As in like a child).

but trick outskill the likes of Hank to the point where hank really could only hit trick whem the clow was plaing around during the battle(at least whem they were meele fighting) so there is even the chance that jhonathan be unable to touch Trick

Jonathan doesn't need to touch, Hamon can be conducted and passed through things, it can be used at range, or stored within objects to pass the charge when that object instead is touched. It should also be noted that Jonathan can charge his own body with Hamon, that way if his body is physically touched, those who touched it get a jolt, though as this is Pre-Deep Pass Jonathan he actually does have issues doing that, so it isn't a catch all thing and something that might take time to do.

 

[JustANormalLemon]

Pre-Deep Pass Jonathan he actually does have issues doing that, so it isn't a catch all thing and something that might take time to do.

This is mostly what I meant in the "hax" part, and how would he react with beingh skilled with a street sing beingh continualy slamed into his head?

 

[JustANormalLemon]

A exemple of trick meele fighting (2:50)

 

[JustANormalLemon]

as you can see, the moment trick stoped plaing he just stomped hank

 

[Chariot190]

Assuming you mean street sign, I'd assume he'd just send Hamon through the sign into those who wields it, kinda like how he'd send Hamon through enemy's swords. Using a metallic weapon is actually kind of disadvantageous against those who use Hamon, metal bats, clubs, swords, etc all leave one's self open.
Also don't forget, Jonathan has regen and healing, even in his first key, he can heal gashes, scars and shattered bones nigh instantly, it isn't like he can't afford taking damage if it enables him to get a strong Hamon charge in and as he and Tricky are about even in AP, it isn't like Tricky is going to be inflicting lethal wounds that Jonathan can't heal, at least not right away.

A exemple of trick meele fighting (2:50)

He uses a lot of melee strikes, grabs and the like it would seem, that doesn't seem to be the best play against Hamon lads, given they can make themselves a living weapon, almost like a bug zapper, if they have a sufficient Hamon charge.

But I'm still gonna need to know what the verdict is on this lad's cybernetics, a second opinion would be helpful.

 

[Comiphorous]

Assuming you mean street sign, I'd assume he'd just send Hamon through the sign into those who wields it, kinda like how he'd send Hamon through enemy's swords. Using a metallic weapon is actually kind of disadvantageous against those who use Hamon, metal bats, clubs, swords, etc all leave one's self open.
Also don't forget, Jonathan has regen and healing, even in his first key, he can heal gashes, scars and shattered bones nigh instantly, it isn't like he can't afford taking damage if it enables him to get a strong Hamon charge in and as he and Tricky are about even in AP, it isn't like Tricky is going to be inflicting lethal wounds that Jonathan can't heal, at least not right away.

Tricky does go for lethal attacks nigh instantly actually, most of the time decapitation (did this with Jebus), stabbing through the throat (which, ironically killed Jonathan). he does go for the kill nigh instantly, his only weakness is that if they can keep up with him for a while he has occasion to resurrect them sometimes (he only ever did this once, with hank, but still)

 

[JustANormalLemon]

(he only ever did this once, with hank, but still)

He has a obsesion with hank, every one else he fights he just go to the kill (at least in this key) the exeption really is Hank and friends of hank, even if he likes to "play fair" he don't gonna let jhonathan much time before tring to cut jhonathan head in half or cut his troth open