Rule:
Oersted is a playable character so I assume that he starts with anything he could use. Moon Down is a short-range attack, Hexaflange requires him to face his back to opponent, Death's Trail needs some preparation time. Oersted has long-range attacks, but they do not induce some negative effect to the enemy.
is there any chance he could hit any of those negative effect moves? from the sounds of it thats his best shot on winning this, or he's just going to be harrassed with bones and blasters until he dies.
I think Oersted could destroy Sans in one hit because Oersted is physically much stronger than Sans. Since Oersted technically defeated Straybow, who "Most of his techniques have a long range and an area of effect." and "can also has attacks that can create field tiles and inflict status effects."
yeah sans is one shot to hell and back, but the chances of them hitting him are near to none considering his reaction speed advantage, sans is going to be keeping his distance and slowly killing Oersted while he dodges attacks.
Oersted outlasts sans to hell and back, sans here can simply kill them before he runs out of energy.
It should be noted that Oersted has accessed to all optional equipment.
most of it seems dodgeable, and its one time use, so not really a game-changer there. and even if the attacks threw him off, he's able to dodge in his sleep, it isn't out of the question he could dodge some that take him off guard.
Then I'd like to know who you are voting to.
funny skeleton man.
Both counted.
No. but that doesn't really matter here since sans nearly insta kills people with soul resistance anyways.
the only time you ever hit him is by breaking game mechanics to hit him off guard, and since we throw game mechanics out the window, he should be fine dodging.
KR is just soul poison, it works regardless on someone and KR only makes up like, 20-30% of sans' damage, he'll still do a shit ton of damage without KR if he didn't have it.
the only time your able to hit him, and KR is never said to base off LV nor bad acts, as thats not the definition of Karma, if it means such.
pressing a button is game mechanics. and yes, the second attack at the end of sans' fight was done by chara, along with the cuts that kill asgore and flowey.
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Frisk is able to defeat Asgore, King of the monsters who fight in the human monster war and SURVIVED. they aren't a normal ass human, as humans in undertale aren't regular humans, they're superhumans. they dwarf Small building level characters. saying frisk is just some kid without any combat experience is plain ignorant. hell, those razor blade attacks can, get this. teleported away from him. he can teleport himself, other people, and attacks themselves to get out of the way of the attack. im not down playing him, im saying that the fact he gets ******* owned by soul manipulation as people who DO resist it die in seconds against him, he'll die even faster here.
oh you need more examples?
... what. that's quite literally a PLOT POINT. they write about it because its TRUE. Monsters <<<<<< Humans. we literally calculated that a human would be City Block level. they are FAR FAR superior to them.
did you play the game? his entire phase 2 is revolved around him rapidly teleporting YOU, ATTACKS, AND HIMSELF to throw you off. he does it so many times its a miracle you somehow missed it.
No??? soul manipulation as in... all of his attacks. they target the soul... they ignore durability. and are you really trying to tell me Oersted is supposed to be universal+? sorry, they are nowhere comparable to chara. sans attacks will almost one-shot him due to him being able to kill someone who DOES resist his attacks within seconds. he slips up once, which he will since he's never delt with soul magic before... will kill him.
asgore having the skill to stomp a young undyne, drag out the human monster war somehow and match frisk who defeated someone who DEFEATED HIM. thats irrelevant? thats you ignoring points, which i despise.
100,000 monsters = 1 human. majority of monsters are Small building level. thats where they are.
i cant even paraphrase this since this makes no ******* sense. but heres the human calc.
all of this has been debunked before. don't come in here spouting shit you don't know what your talking about. the reason armor works is because some armor is made of magic and FRISK RESISTS SOUL MANIPULATION. Frisk takes magic as physical hits, making armor work. sans negates durability period, if you have a problem with that, make a CRT. the rest of this is a bunch of shit doesn't mean anything to me. Why would he not be bothered by the fact his soul was just obliterated in less than 4 seconds? your entire paragraph is just spouting shit we already know is debunked, or has nothing to do with the match.
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You got some stuff wrong because wiki standards but it looks razonable enough anywayYou can't seriously be trying to use the fact that Asgore "stomped" a child monster as a feat of strength, are you? Undyne is strong, especially compared to other monsters, sure; but you only meet Undyne after her training with Asgore's completed, and she's already among the strongest monsters in the Underground. Dragging out the Human Monster war is also no better. Not only do we not have any indication how long the war lasted, there WERE no human casualties, meaning any kinda prolonged conflict would have had to occur by either guerilla tactics, or shields of meat; that is not strength. And again, with Undyne, she only defeated him in training. There's no inference here; there's no way Asgore was fighting to kill, or fighting at full-power during training. And being defeated by Frisk is again, not an indicator of Frisk's strength, but rather the depth of Asgore's guilt and desire to be with his family again. This is not me ignoring points; everything I say here is either backed by evidence as stated in-game, or a fair inference based on such evidence. I've no interest in downplaying one character, just to make another look good.
Now, as for your "majority of monsters are Small Building Level," I will admit, that got me thinking. (Even if it's wrong, since, the only indication I can find of this is Undyne lifting a boulder, and she is WELL above the "average" monster.) So, let's take another look at the Waterfall Glyphs I cited earlier. "It would take the SOUL of nearly every monster... ... just to equal the power of a single human SOUL." I realized something upon reading this. It makes no mention of physical strength, rather the strength of a SOUL, which is more magic-based than anything else. So, if human's souls are so much more powerful than monster's SOULs, what does that mean? It means that Undyne's Small Building level feat...is IRRELEVANT to a debate on the power of SOULs!
This opens up the possibility that humans and monsters are not imbalanced on a physical scale, but on a spiritual scale! Meaning there is no evidence that the physical OR Soul-based power of an Undertale human is any greater than one you might find in real life. Now, before you throw my words back on me about evidence and inference, I say this. There is variability in uncertainty. The possibility does exist that UT-Humans could be superhuman, the high end of my analogous abacus, or they COULD be just regular human-level. If we put this aside for just a second that leaves us with one thing I already touched upon...
So we have a range of uncertainty AND a clear and fair comparison to work with, meaning the most likely answer...is that Frisk's Physical and Spiritual powers are merely average, human-level if you will, while a monster's Physical powers are similar to a humans, but their Spiritual powers, the ones they actually use to attack you are vastly inferior to a human's average power-level.
Now...since I got my Edgeworth gif, and I'm all in the mood, let me ask. How will you reply? What evidence do you have to immobilize the bead of this abacus and break the Range of Uncertainty?
Now, onto your other points... For what you say about Razor Sonic, I can see how your point would apply...if the Razor Sonic attack WAS just a simple razor-blade. To that, I present this, Razor Sonic's in-game description: "Sword Tech/Chop to bits." Sounds pretty clear...cut...right? Wrong. Let's take a look at the animation again.
Do you notice something about it? Multiple strikes occur simultaneously. And with the description I shared, this is specifically listed as "Sword Tech," meaning it IS Oersted himself doing this, and not a magic, disembodied spell he cast. Now, I'll be the first to admit, my math isn't perfect so apologies if I'm wrong here, I'll try not to make too many assumptions, but, assuming Oersted at minimum is moving and slashing faster than the human eye can track, that would put his minimum at 17500 meters per second. Sans is quick, yes, but as seen with Frisk's final blow, his reaction speed isn't NEARLY that fast.
Therefore, I stand my ground that Razor Sonic would ABSOLUTELY be able to hit Sans with at least one of its strikes.
If it's been debunked, why have you not presented this? We're far from out of evidence, and, honestly, I think I've proven my case in more than one of the points available. All of Frisk's armor (except for the temy armor) had been owned by a previous fallen human. I imagine the point that's been made is that each of these items holds some kind of significance, some kind of emotional bond that allows them to resist magic-based attacks, yes? Now, again, Sans' Atk and Def are both 1. And Sans deals damage via Karmic Retribution, dealing 1 point of damage per "tick," and applying the Soul Poison effect you mentioned yesterday. Now, sure, let's go under the assumption that Sans can ignore all forms of armor, and I could see the reasoning for that. Even the Faded Ribbon, (Bandage doesn't grant any Damage Reduction) the least-protective piece of armor, tied with Cloudy Glasses, would make Sans deal zero damage per tick. But...how does this help him fight Oersted? Oersted wiped out Lucretia, meaning his "Love" level should be equal to that of Frisk/Chara. Maybe even better, because literally everyone native to Lucretia is dead, while in Undertale, you were capped at level 19 until you killed Sans. This would give Oersted a similar degree of survivability to Soul Manipulation to Frisk/Chara.
To address your final point, if this stuff has been debunked, why don't you present it? You followed this up by immediately saying "both sides have their evidence burnt out," meaning you don't...really have an argument left, do you? If I wasn't tired from being sick and needed to take a break every now and again, I could do this all day, because most of what you're saying has a flimsy basis to begin with, and supports itself using evidence from other, third-party sources. My logic isn't perfect, there is no such thing, and I've only started really getting into Battle-Writing, research, and debating two months ago. I'm a virtual newbie, so there's got to be cracks in my metaphorical armor. You just need some direct, solid evidence that hasn't been presented yet...
Now, I don't mean to aggravate you, but I'd like to ask you to tone down a bit there, friend. You sound a little angry, and as I've said, this is nothing more than a civil debate. If you need a moment to relax and calm down, by all means, take it. We don't need to continue this debate if you don't want to.
Well, as it just so happens...
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"Razonable?" Is that a pun on "Razor Sonic?" Heheh, clever...even if it was unintentional.
what do you mean? monsters waterfall/hotland up are all small building level... are you even looking at their pages? also, humans lack magic entirely except for the mages that made the barrier, and FRISK THEMSELVES physically amps when their soul gets stronger, making your entire argument flawed.
Alright proved this wrong, moving on.
because it was debunked YEARS AGO, I didn't think I needed to mention something that was basically common knowledge. also, we've gone over this many times
i just debate incredibly aggressively. something about a man with a fish pfp screaming about a funny skeleton is ******* hilarious to me.
i ain't aggravated,I just debate like I took a suitcase full of coke.
Oh, yeah, hahah. Funny angry fish man, woo! In all seriousness, if I had a nickel for the amount of times someone with a Scout weapon, or anything Scout-related as a profile picture went on a furious, shouting tirade at me over the internet, sincere or not, I'd have enough to commission a Brandon Yates track for this match-up. So I'm sorry if the joke's run a little stale on me.i just debate incredibly aggressively. something about a man with a fish pfp screaming about a funny skeleton is ******* hilarious to me.
Quite the contrary actually. Undyne is both more durable and hits harder than any of the standard non-boss monsters (And Boss Monster is a specific classification of monster, DESIGNED to be stronger than the average, as stated by Gerson.) Regardless of that, looking at the classifications of the standard monsters on this wiki, most of them seem to just be listed at wall-destroying-level or below, not including the Boss Monsters.
Addressed? Certainly. Proved wrong? Hah...I wouldn't be so sure.
If it's been debunked years ago, then present it, as I've been saying. Everything is variable, especially in a game as vague as Undertale, so you'd be surprised how such "common knowledge" can change.
All boss monsters (Toriel, Papyrus, Undyne, Mettaton, Asgore) are Small building level or higher, not sure where you got that from. the only exception to this is sans himself. you seem to miss the fact that monster stats ******* plummet when fighting someone with the desire to kill them, making frisk one shot everyone in the genocide route and do minimal damage in any other route until you start attacking them over and over. frisk has never, and will never use magic in undertale, they get PHYSICALLY stronger from raising their LV, which affects the SOUL. meaning no, their soul does affect how physically strong they are.
Oh speed is equalized?
Offense damage is something sans never takes, he does shit ton of chip damage that negates durability that can kill people who resist his attacks within seconds. defence doesn't matter since he 'lolreacts' to everything they throw at him. intelligence is given to sans regardless, he's a Extraordinary Genius vs someone with High intelligence, it isn't a question. and god ******* dammit, you keep going on about KR, but KR IS ****** USELESS. its just poison that gives him slightly more damage than he'd normally. and his wind based spells are ******* useless since he can react to all of it with his superior reaction speeds in this fight. ]
Yeah, I don't recall the fish complaining about being used to bludgeon a clueless newborn Sniper. He seems rather content with his life.
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm not arguing the boss monsters aren't small building level, thanks to Undyne's boulder-feat. I'm questioning whether the standard monsters are anywhere near that level.
No, I wouldn't say that at all. In fact, if anything, Oersted's reaction speed has been proven to be GREATER than Sans'. A lightning bolt is 270,000 mph, while the VERY FASTEST a human can move their arm (that being professional baseball pitchers, which is highballing Frisk,) is 100 mph, making Oersted's maximum reaction speed 2700 times greater than Sans' maximum. Now, I don't understand what you mean by "separate rating," when reaction speed is its own category entirely. It isn't an unfair comparison to pit these characters' speeds against each other. And even if this is irrelevant, if reaction speeds are equalized as well, it means Sans is more-or-less incapable of dodging Oersted any more than Oersted can dodge Sans. And with Oersted's superior HP and guaranteed one-hit-kill, this can only mean death for Sans.
Not the point I was getting at. Sans dies in one hit, we've established this, but Oersted...does not. Frisk is capable of taking more than one of Sans' attacks without dying, and Oersted post-genocide, should reasonably have the same amount of HP as Frisk. Oersted won't last forever, but remember, he only needs to land ONE hit in order to kill Sans, and as I've proven numerous times during this thread, Oersted equals or exceeds Sans' speed, leaving Sans as nothing more than a sitting duck with a pistol in its beak.
actually small building level comes from Mettaton, not undyne. and yes, most if not all hotland monsters are at that level, aswell as some Waterfall and snowdin monsters are at that level aswell. frisk's attack doesn't go up when their's go down, they just slap them as their defence plummets and strangles the life out of all of them. frisk has no magic, never will, and its accepted they never do, and use physical attacks at all times.
Oestered's reaction speed is not any higher than his base speed, meaning in speed equalized sans' reaction speeds are higher as his reaction speeds are higher than his base speed, gaster blasters have a 'higher' speed, meaning they are faster. all of his spells dont have a seperate rating to his basespeed, meaning sans can react to all of it, including his wind spells, they are useless here.
All of this is wrong. Oerested does basically die within a single touch to his attacks as he kills someone who does resist his abilities faster than they can react, dont bring up HP, thats game mechanics. speed equalized makes all of Oersted's attacks Supersonic leaving sans' reaction speed at Supersonic+ (roughly, didn't do the math), meaning he can react to literally everything. so unfortunately sans is not a sitting duck, he's more like a terminator duck.
Im going off of profile, which lists him as 'high' intellegence, if you wish to change that make a crt. also you might want to look at their profiles, since you are seemingly missing a lot of things.
