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Sakuya Izayoi vs Ultraman Zero

Kisaragi_Megumi

Kisaragi_Megumi

39,357
15,178
What Mr. Cultery said, jumping to the shark lets go!
Anyway this is by far the first Zero (Reiwa version) matches, and truth to be told....unlike Kamen Riders, the Ultra Series are mostly varied from tier 4 to tier 2 so kind of hard to pushing the verse to the mainstream
And why said jumping to the shark is because we are going to use Sakuya, by some of us in Ultraman discussion thread thinking she is a lil bit broken, but we'll see in this match

Funny enough both verses also having some of revisions tho for Ultramans it has done long ago

Another incident happened on the Moon of Touhou World, there are some of very powerful energy that detected by Yukari. This time Sakuya decided to investigating it and to find out the source

Arrived at Moon Capital, she later on found out the Lunar Capital has been wrecked and from the smoke, can be seen an image of an large humanoid, it seems that there's a battle happened and that humanoid just ended it
Noticed the source of powerful that humanoid, Sakuya then decided to fight him, thinking him as the enemy!
Meanwhile in Zero (the humanoid) side, he was chased a Legionoids and ended up in Touhou dimension and landed on Lunar Capital, after a (rather short) fight he destroyed the mecha easily, he soon noticed an another threat and when he looked at it, it was a human!? But this human could do a decent damages at him as the human threw up a bazillions of knifes to him, he need to defend himself!
Could this misunderstanding be solved in a fight!?

  • Low 2-C for them are used
  • Speed are equalized
  • Both are in-characters
  • Place: Lunar Capital
  • images
  • Starting Range: 100 meters
  • Win via anything!!
  • The Fandom Favorite Time Maid: 0
  • The favorite Golden Childs of universe strongest Ultra: 0
  • Inconclusive: 8 (Onsokuno, Jedi, Popted, Pepper, Fujiwara, Mr. Cut, Peter, Glaceon)

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VS
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Well than might as well be the one to start asking questions. Since Zero seems to resist most of her abilities it seems like it will come down to AP, skill, and versatility in the end. So what is Sakuya’s AP?
 
Should be above baseline L2-C.

Is optional equipment restricted for Sakuya?

As it stands now, it doesn't look like Ultraman Zero has layered time stop resist so Sakuya could likely affect him. Gonna go with Sakuya for now.
 
Ahh shit layered hax. Should’ve known that was gonna be a thing since this is Touhou. How big is the scaling chain for Sakuya? Cause from what I’ve heard some characters in Touhou are stronger than combined powers of dozens of Low 2-Cs or something. Also for Zero the AP scaling is this.

Base/Luna-Miracle (>3x Baseline), Strong-Corona/Beyond (>9x Baseline), Ultimate (>12x Baseline), Shining (>>12x Baseline), Ultimate Shining (>>48x Baseline)
 
Well, shit. That's way above where Sakuya is.

As it stands now, Kaguya (baseline L2-C) = Mokou < Sakuya. So nowhere near the level of bullshit multipliers Ultraman has going on.

Since Sakuya can stop time indefinitely with layered hax, but is at a massive AP disadvantage, and I'm not sure if her base hax will be enough to win or not, I'm gonna say incon without optional equipment, Sakuya with optional equipment.
 
This is actually the first time I’ve seen anybody say the Ultra Series has a bs multiplier. I actually think it’s rather tame in comparison to things like say Dragon Ball. Most of the multipliers in the series are less than 10x boosts with only a select few being in the 10-20x range.

But yeah I guess for now I’ll just wait before voting and see what everybody else thinks though I’ll also give some of my own thoughts.

Zero should have a 3x AP advantage as I assume he starts off in Base though if he realized Sakuya uses time manipulation he might switch to Shining form and counter it with his own time abilities. And Shining Zero stomps characters that are stronger than Ultimate Zero who is over 12x baseline. So any attack in this form would one shot Sakuya who is just above baseline.
 
I think multipliers in general are kinda bullshit lmao, I have nothing against Ultraman.

Sakuya can resist her own time manip though (as in, she can resist time stop from a different Sakuya), how layered are Zero's time hax?
 
Yeah I know just kinda surprised that’s it.

From what I know Shining just has the basic one layer stuff. Though Ultimate Shining might be a different case since that form is supposed to be Ultimate + Shining combined and then magnified. Also that form has a statement of transcending space-time though I doubt that matters that much. So the abilities of Ultimate Shining is probably much greater than Shining but we don’t know by how much as that form has only appeared once and Zero still couldn’t control it. Not to mention the debut of said form ended with Zero getting casually beaten by Tartarus in under a minute so we never really got to see the full extent of this form’s abilities.
 
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Not sure. His resistance comes from a planet that doesn't exist in any universe, effectively placing it in the void itself. While there's no way to say this nonexistence is comparable, the actual void is a total lack of anything, including space and time. So that means Zero resists erasure that works in a(n arguably) timeless void.

Plus the cosmology effectively makes it that each universes are a continuum that encompasses a history on their own, so existing outside of that should logically place you outside of space-time or history, but I'll let you folks judge.
 
That definitely makes it seem like Sakuya's EE won't work. Will age manipulation work? If not, Sakuya doesn't have much that can close the AP/durability gap outside of optional equipment. She can technically incon with indefinite time stop, but keeping time stopped forever seems kinda anticlimactic and out of character.
 
What's the extent of her age manipulation? Several hundred years each moment? Probably not since even if that works, Zero still has an Ultra's lifespan and his seniors are all roughly 3 - 4x his own age, well into the tens of thousands range without any sign of being worn down by it, which means he'll notice it quickly enough to change tactics.

At least that's how I understand it should work given what's already known about the abilities.

On the optionals, how do the ones that could work against Zero function? Haven't played SWR (mostly because I still suck) or UM or did enough research to understand those deeper details. Y'know, for the sake of arguments.
 
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It'd hurt them, sure, but it's not going to be fatal. Zero in particular survived being stabbed, plus some slashes, through the chest twice.

Also worth noting that the guy he fought was far stronger than he was.
 
It probably won't be as bad as those cell destroying hax claws, but it would be a problem I suppose. How early is Sakuya willing to do that?

Though I feel like going with his experience, Zero would know from Sakuya's knife works that he'd know to change forms.
 
The moment she realized Zero isn't taking damage from her Danmaku, Sakuya time stops and pull out Deflation World on which she pops knife from past, present, and future, the Knife can appear inside since she's manifesting it.
 
Ugh I've been wracking my head for the good half of yesterday, but things seem clearer now.

I'm gonna assume that since she's not under Spell Card rules, Deflation World is either spammable or can be endlessly sustained. Which obviously would be bad for Zero since we've already established internal damage does considerably more and under a non SC condition, it could easily be debilitating for him.

But on the other hand, Zero is just as likely to notice something wrong, particularly the fact that Sakuya's in-character starting is Time Stop. He will realize that his attacks rarely, if ever, land plus the small but notable series of damages he is to receive. I'm expecting he'll either go LunaMiracle for its speed boost or Shining, which has a move where he just points at the opponent and blasts them away. It's listed as "Energy" Backlash in the wiki, but I believe it's actually a variation of his telekinesis. Speaking of telekinesis, Zero should have logically scaled to his dad's who does use it to toss around enemies but I digress.

So from what I can gather, it's either Sakuya notices first and use Deflation World, or Zero does and use either LM's speed boost to overcome the speed equalization or Shining's telekinesis which has explicit offensive showing.
 
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Mr.Cutlery said:
But on the other hand, Zero is just as likely to notice something wrong, particularly the fact that Sakuya's in-character starting is Time Stop. He will realize that his attacks rarely, if ever, land plus the small but notable series of damages he is to receive. I'm expecting he'll either go LunaMiracle for its speed boost or Shining, which has a move where he just points at the opponent and blasts them away. It's listed as "Energy" Backlash in the wiki, but I believe it's actually a variation of his telekinesis. Speaking of telekinesis, Zero should have logically scaled to his dad's who does use it to toss around enemies but I digress.
Click to expand...
The thing is, almost none of Sakuya attacks gonna even hurt Zero, Sakuya will notice this first rather than Zero and pull out Deflation World.
 
Isn't slightly or notably above baseline still close enough to not be completely ignored even by a 3x baseline character? Of course now that I think about it, I am also under the assumption that Sakuya still relies on throwing her knives which requires time to continue so the full effects can, well, take effect. That means Zero will still take damage, giving him enough time to notice that not only Sakuya uses time stop but also keeps her distance, resulting in the alternative scenario I proposed.

Also, taking a step back, Zero takes his opponents seriously even when they're slightly weaker. This means that he will use ranged attacks as well, most likely with his Emerium Slash which has been described and shown as having great accuracy, you know, because Sakuya isn't exactly kaiju that he can wrassle with. And again, he would notice that it doesn't hit, and he'd likely notice the Time Stops since detecting mess-ups in space-time is kinda the schtick of Ultras on his levels. And looking at it this way, Zero would go Shining immediately.

Okay, just noticed I never really addressed Sakuya using Deflation World on him. What happens if it doesn't immediately kill Zero? Will she restart another series? Because while I agree it will cause considerably more damage, Zero still has survived worse internal injuries as I've established with Belial not only being stronger than him, but also used hax while he was at it. So on the off-chance Zero does survive, he can use Shining Star Drive to at least reverse his injuries. Even without Shining, he can still go Ultimate to create instant portals since he knows now he has no chance to survive if he's on the same space as Sakuya.

Hm. I'm not sure where I'm going wrong, but it seems I always go for a wordy counter-argument. Prolly because of the lacking amount of variety in Zero's battles and arsenal.
 
The thing is, Zero is a freaking GIANT that Sakuya never seen before, she'll notice that Zero is larger than the Youkai mountain and immediately turns her "danger sign", therefore she'll use Deflation World regardless.

If it doesn't kill then spam more knives, if it doesn't then it's a stomp since Sakuya has no wincon.
 
I doubt Zero's size at 49 meters would be a cause for alarm considering the danmaku she and the others go through, but okay, fair point.

And I don't think it'd remove Sakuya's wincons if Zero were to survive since like you said, DW can be restarted immediately. But at this point if that's the case, the coin toss could start there instead. Will Zero die first, or will he survive long enough to go Shining?
 
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