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(Profiles not on the VSBW are here on this CRT, as the pages aren't added yet)
Scales much further above the Supreme Kai, who was knocked out by Rumshii’s roar, which also leads Goku to being somewhat comparable (albeit much weaker than, as Goku stated the Gods of Destructions had absurd strength, which should mean their all stronger than Goku’s Completed SSB form) the Gods of Destruction, as Whis stated should also barely be standing from the roar.
Dyspo's Talk (4/5)
Dyspo quoted him as not half bad, meaning that he should be somewhat comparable to him. Took hits from a Toppo who said that the battle was no place for mercy (meaning he's at least somewhat serious), albeit he was only able to block and not fight back. This also makes sense with the fact that a Super Saiyan Blue Goku instantly knocked back Toppo.
I'll extend this here now. Toppo stated that Goku wasn't even close to his level in Super Saiyan 3 during the Exhibition Match (Chapter 29), Dyspo is also the third strongest member of the Pride Troopers. Vegeta also one-shot Dyspo upon transforming into blue, but Dyspo survived the attack obviously, and Vegeta opt'ed to originally use Super Saiyan against the Pride Trooper Duo.
Scaling to Gohan (1/5)
Goku may scale to a ToP Gohan, but Gohan is only likely 3-B.
Always Above Piccolo (3/5)
A little supporting thing for the Galactic Patrol scaling, as Goku since the Frieza Saga has always been above Piccolo. Piccolo was likely 3-B due to being able to fight Seven-Three alongside Gohan.
Scaling above Sangabo (5/5)
Sangabo is a character who when powered up, is enough to push back Android 17, Android 18, Gohan, and Piccolo at the same time, as well as effortlessly overpowering all of them. He is also able to effortlessly take a combined blast from Piccolo and Gohan, and this is only a few of the pieces of evidence that are here. There are more times that Gohan and Piccolo are effortlessly overpowered and having Sangabo not even taking damage from the Z-Fighters hits.
After this, he isn't even able to see Goku and gets knocked back far by him, while Goku is in base. Not even Gohan or Piccolo could see the attack that Goku made, similarly to Goku vs Jeice and Burter, so it should be scalable. Goku also combos Sangabo and more here. You may say, "But a CSSB Goku fought Sangabo too!" but that Sangabo was given more energy (and Goku still stomped him), so it's not important (if you're curious, Chapter 58, post-Page 28).
I don't think i'll need any more evidence to say that Goku is 3-B Post-Moro Arc.
Hit's scaling is absolutely broken on his profile, as while he's holding back he primarily scales to Base and Super Saiyan Goku, as with predictions Goku was able to match him in SSJ, with Beerus even saying that Goku completely beats Hit in power. But, Hit also scales to effortlessly defeating and being able to effortlessly damage a >10% Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta and is also able to take hits from a Super Saiyan God Goku. Both of these instances are major points in the story, and both of which support 3-B scaling.
Either way, >10% Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta, who is still 3-B (and was able to be damaged by Hit, meaning that Hit's durability is comparable), took Hit's and coughed up blood from Super Saiyan Goku, who is currently 4-B.
This could be P.I.S. though
Several Instances of God Level Foes Hitting Goku and Vegeta (1/5)
This has happened so many times I don't even need to mention it anymore. This is likely PIS but is notable since it happened so many times.
Lack of 4-B Feats (2/5)
Goku has no 4-B feats after the VERY BEGINNING of Super. There are no 4-B feats and we have all of this evidence here, and I remember someone in this thread mentioned that these feats aren't enough to upgrade Goku to 3-B, but what feats are there that keeps Goku at 4-B besides Trunks in the Goku Black Arc?
Dyspo's section has been extended
Equal to Android 17 (2/5)
Pre-ToP, Goku fought against Android 17. He was forced to go into Super Saiyan 3 because of his "training" on his island and the fact that this SSJ3 Goku was out of practice. Android 17 is 4-B here because of that. He trained for about 3 months for Moro and got to be 3-B, and not only that, Android 18 also became 3-B. Android 17 also scales above Piccolo here as well due to him questioning what training Android 17 did, originally thinking he would need help to defeat Botamo before Android 17 one shot him, adding further support to the Piccolo < SSJ Goku arguement.
Vegeta has Uncontrollable Power (3/5)
Vegeta, upon finishing training on Yardratt, couldn't even handle his own power, this could point to Vegeta actually being stronger in his new base than his previous CSSB, and logically, Goku would scale.
Dragon Ball Super: Broly (4/5)
A movie where Broly in Base vs Super Saiyan happens and then Ikari broly (x10 Base) fights fairly evenly against Super Saiyan God. Either scaling doesn't scale to the manga, which isn't true, or you think that Broly's multiplier is thousands of times stronger than it is in the movie for some reason.
Granolah Defeating Goku (5/5)
Goku in the Granolah Saga survived a bloodlusted (i mean, there's LITERALLY no reason that Granolah wouldn't be) Clone Granolah's blast while in his base form. This happened again with Granolah while Goku was in God, though Goku easily remained concious from this attack.
Extra Evidence May Be Added in the Future
SSJ Black > SSB vegeta, SSG Vegeta > Rose Black
The only bad thing about this that Goku Black has the worst scaling in any Dragon Ball Super arc.
Trunks. Trunks has SEVERAL different feats placing him in 4-B, and then those feats are on the Whole Bunch of New Chou Profiles thread, and him possibly being higher. The Goku Black scaling is a good point, and Goku & Vegeta training could also be used, but essentially, the Goku Black arc is completely wack.
It's a decent enough point however, but this won't be used as a main piece of evidence due to the Goku Black arc being WACK in terms of scaling, story, and all of that.
Agree: Spinorr, Vizer04, Meganova_Stella
Disagree: FluffyCreatureZ, LephyrTheRevanchist
Neutral:
When does Goku become 3-B, who scales?
Goku becomes 3-B in the time that he does the most training he ever does (arguably), the Moro Saga. This saga has Goku train with Merus to achieve Ultra Instinct for multiple months while Vegeta trains on Planet Yardratt like Goku did all of those years ago. This means that the main point here is that Goku is 3-B, and that means the characters who scale are Vegeta due to scaling to around Goku's level. Nobody else really scalesEvidence
The evidence will have a rating /5 out of how reliable the piece of evidence is.
Rumshii's Roar (3/5)Scales much further above the Supreme Kai, who was knocked out by Rumshii’s roar, which also leads Goku to being somewhat comparable (albeit much weaker than, as Goku stated the Gods of Destructions had absurd strength, which should mean their all stronger than Goku’s Completed SSB form) the Gods of Destruction, as Whis stated should also barely be standing from the roar.
Dyspo's Talk (4/5)
Dyspo quoted him as not half bad, meaning that he should be somewhat comparable to him. Took hits from a Toppo who said that the battle was no place for mercy (meaning he's at least somewhat serious), albeit he was only able to block and not fight back. This also makes sense with the fact that a Super Saiyan Blue Goku instantly knocked back Toppo.
I'll extend this here now. Toppo stated that Goku wasn't even close to his level in Super Saiyan 3 during the Exhibition Match (Chapter 29), Dyspo is also the third strongest member of the Pride Troopers. Vegeta also one-shot Dyspo upon transforming into blue, but Dyspo survived the attack obviously, and Vegeta opt'ed to originally use Super Saiyan against the Pride Trooper Duo.
Goku may scale to a ToP Gohan, but Gohan is only likely 3-B.
Always Above Piccolo (3/5)
A little supporting thing for the Galactic Patrol scaling, as Goku since the Frieza Saga has always been above Piccolo. Piccolo was likely 3-B due to being able to fight Seven-Three alongside Gohan.
Sangabo is a character who when powered up, is enough to push back Android 17, Android 18, Gohan, and Piccolo at the same time, as well as effortlessly overpowering all of them. He is also able to effortlessly take a combined blast from Piccolo and Gohan, and this is only a few of the pieces of evidence that are here. There are more times that Gohan and Piccolo are effortlessly overpowered and having Sangabo not even taking damage from the Z-Fighters hits.
After this, he isn't even able to see Goku and gets knocked back far by him, while Goku is in base. Not even Gohan or Piccolo could see the attack that Goku made, similarly to Goku vs Jeice and Burter, so it should be scalable. Goku also combos Sangabo and more here. You may say, "But a CSSB Goku fought Sangabo too!" but that Sangabo was given more energy (and Goku still stomped him), so it's not important (if you're curious, Chapter 58, post-Page 28).
I don't think i'll need any more evidence to say that Goku is 3-B Post-Moro Arc.
New Evidence (added around November 2nd)
Hit Scaling (3/5)Hit's scaling is absolutely broken on his profile, as while he's holding back he primarily scales to Base and Super Saiyan Goku, as with predictions Goku was able to match him in SSJ, with Beerus even saying that Goku completely beats Hit in power. But, Hit also scales to effortlessly defeating and being able to effortlessly damage a >10% Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta and is also able to take hits from a Super Saiyan God Goku. Both of these instances are major points in the story, and both of which support 3-B scaling.
Either way, >10% Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta, who is still 3-B (and was able to be damaged by Hit, meaning that Hit's durability is comparable), took Hit's and coughed up blood from Super Saiyan Goku, who is currently 4-B.
This could be P.I.S. though
Several Instances of God Level Foes Hitting Goku and Vegeta (1/5)
This has happened so many times I don't even need to mention it anymore. This is likely PIS but is notable since it happened so many times.
Lack of 4-B Feats (2/5)
Goku has no 4-B feats after the VERY BEGINNING of Super. There are no 4-B feats and we have all of this evidence here, and I remember someone in this thread mentioned that these feats aren't enough to upgrade Goku to 3-B, but what feats are there that keeps Goku at 4-B besides Trunks in the Goku Black Arc?
Dyspo's section has been extended
Equal to Android 17 (2/5)
Pre-ToP, Goku fought against Android 17. He was forced to go into Super Saiyan 3 because of his "training" on his island and the fact that this SSJ3 Goku was out of practice. Android 17 is 4-B here because of that. He trained for about 3 months for Moro and got to be 3-B, and not only that, Android 18 also became 3-B. Android 17 also scales above Piccolo here as well due to him questioning what training Android 17 did, originally thinking he would need help to defeat Botamo before Android 17 one shot him, adding further support to the Piccolo < SSJ Goku arguement.
Vegeta has Uncontrollable Power (3/5)
Vegeta, upon finishing training on Yardratt, couldn't even handle his own power, this could point to Vegeta actually being stronger in his new base than his previous CSSB, and logically, Goku would scale.
Dragon Ball Super: Broly (4/5)
A movie where Broly in Base vs Super Saiyan happens and then Ikari broly (x10 Base) fights fairly evenly against Super Saiyan God. Either scaling doesn't scale to the manga, which isn't true, or you think that Broly's multiplier is thousands of times stronger than it is in the movie for some reason.
Granolah Defeating Goku (5/5)
Goku in the Granolah Saga survived a bloodlusted (i mean, there's LITERALLY no reason that Granolah wouldn't be) Clone Granolah's blast while in his base form. This happened again with Granolah while Goku was in God, though Goku easily remained concious from this attack.
Extra Evidence May Be Added in the Future
Why didn't you use Goku Black scaling?
Specifically this:SSJ Black > SSB vegeta, SSG Vegeta > Rose Black
The only bad thing about this that Goku Black has the worst scaling in any Dragon Ball Super arc.
Trunks. Trunks has SEVERAL different feats placing him in 4-B, and then those feats are on the Whole Bunch of New Chou Profiles thread, and him possibly being higher. The Goku Black scaling is a good point, and Goku & Vegeta training could also be used, but essentially, the Goku Black arc is completely wack.
It's a decent enough point however, but this won't be used as a main piece of evidence due to the Goku Black arc being WACK in terms of scaling, story, and all of that.
Does Goku have God Ki in Base then?
Goku may not have God Ki in base however, as he didn’t have the aura of the God in Toppo’s fight until he reached SSG, and Goku didn't do any training during the Moro or Granolah the Survivor Arcs that would make him absorb God Ki into their base.Is the boost in Power Realistic?
Dragon Ball power scaling does not equal VSBW power scaling. If VSBW powerscaling was = to Dragon Ball power scaling, it'd be unrealistic to say that Goku would even be 3-B with God Ki. Goku would probably be about 4-C at the end of Z and 4-A/3-C in Super, so no, I don't think that this being a "realistic boost" should be considered.Proposals:
- Goku is possibly 3-B in Base while in the Tournament of Power
- He is 3-B in Base while in the Moro Saga to Present
Agree: Spinorr, Vizer04, Meganova_Stella
Disagree: FluffyCreatureZ, LephyrTheRevanchist
Neutral:
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