Dream SMP General Discussion

[MrKerf]

Tier 3 comes from End Poem, which I am still pissed that it was removed, but it was. Plus even if it wasn't, we wouldn't knew for sure that it applies to DreamSMP.

I mean, he can have both Creation and Teleportation without having Creative Mode.
It doesn't bother me at all, except for him having a ton of abilities he never used and never will use. Like Duplication. I have literaly never ever seen anyone use /clone in my life.

 

[InfiniteDay]

Tier 3 comes from End Poem, which I am still pissed that it was removed, but it was. Plus even if it wasn't, we wouldn't knew for sure that it applies to DreamSMP.

I mean, he can have both Creation and Teleportation without having Creative Mode.
It doesn't bother me at all, except for him having a ton of abilities he never used and never will use. Like Duplication. I have literaly never ever seen anyone use /clone in my life.

End Poem was rejected for 2-B tiering, not infinite. That was never discussed, and is very blatant in it's usage. Also, he should reasonably have all of his creative mode powers. Drista uses multiple of them, and DreamXD should also have those. DreamXD should have all creative mode powers. This is canon, relevant to the story, and Drista backs this up by using multiple commands. He probably won't use it, but he could. Which is why we have the power.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

End Poem was rejected for 2-B tiering, not infinite. That was never discussed, and is very blatant in it's usage.

"Based on context provided by this interview, the End Poem has been deemed insufficient to base profiles, statistics, et cetera on. To summarize, it has been decided that the End Poem is both insufficient to prove potential ratings and considered too questionable in its legitimacy (refer to the aforementioned interview) to support it as justification for any use on this wiki."

 

[InfiniteDay]

Dang.

 

[MrKerf]

I hate it too.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Bedrock is as hard as a command block.

We technically can't prove that- as the Dream SMP is it's own narrative, the fact techno can damage bedrock weakness it, the Dream SMP exists as it's own fiction told in the theater of minecraft

Also I just read like 2 weeks of missed replys so I apology if I'm weighing in on a finished discussion.

And- I have some things to say about giving everyone ghost abilitys. We have too few examples of people dying to go and blanket stuff like that, we gave dream the ability to revive himself with the revive and look what happened? He needs both the written book and a target to revive- which basically means self revival with it is impossible, which also means it'll never be combat applicable

Ghost burr was first seen a few weeks after the 16th (I've think- I could probably be wrong, I definitely believe he didn't stream again that day)- we don't know how long glatt took but he's trapped in his gym which might as well be BFR if it's not on the battlefield and tommy dosen't seem to have become a ghost in the few days he was dead, but after coming back he made a point of describing himself as "being torn apart" which some believe ment he was still forming his ghost- which just ultimately means it's inconsistent /: and we really don't know-

 

[Darkmon_cns]

What I'm saying with the above is, I don't feel it's appropriate to give everyone abilitys based on an interpretation of the facts of story without actually knowing for sure what those facts are, when they could indeed be revealed in the future

 

[InfiniteDay]

We technically can't prove that- as the Dream SMP is it's own narrative, the fact techno can damage bedrock weakness it, the Dream SMP exists as it's own fiction told in the theater of minecraft

Techno broke no bedrock. It's unprovable that he did.

And- I have some things to say about giving everyone ghost abilitys. We have too few examples of people dying to go and blanket stuff like that, we gave dream the ability to revive himself with the revive and look what happened?

Ghost burr was first seen a few weeks after the 16th (I've think- I could probably be wrong, I definitely believe he didn't stream again that day)- we don't know how long glatt took but he's trapped in his gym which might as well be BFR if it's not on the battlefield and tommy dosen't seem to have become a ghost in the few days he was dead, but after coming back he made a point of describing himself as "being torn apart" which some believe ment he was still forming his ghost- which just ultimately means it's inconsistent /: and we really don't know-

So... almost everybody who died turned into a ghost, but Tommy didn't. The only thing inconsistent here is Tommy. who we probably see that Ghostbur isn't Wilbur exactly. It can be assumed Glatt is not Jshlatt. And Tommy was only dead for three days. We don't know how long Glatt took to appear, but it can be assumed it was between those two dates. Anyway, I guess type 7 isn't really combat applicable, the window for revival doesn't happen in time.

And- I have some things to say about giving everyone ghost abilitys. We have too few examples of people dying to go and blanket stuff like that, we gave dream the ability to revive himself with the revive and look what happened? He needs both the written book and a target to revive- which basically means self revival with it is impossible, which also means it'll never be combat applicable

I'll agree with you here. Type 7 isn't combat applicable as I explained earlier, and neither is revival book.

 

[MrKerf]

Techno broke no bedrock. It's unprovable that he did.

Yet.

We technically can't prove that- as the Dream SMP is it's own narrative.

True, but there's a reason why we are using Withers for scaling, instead of saying "Dream is Country Level, he blew L'Manburg". The fundamentals, like mobs, blocks, weapons, and their statistics are all the same, unless stated otherwise.

For a ghost, we already have two examples, plus Philza said that when he'll die, he'll become ghost as well.
Also, there are no reasons to believe that becoming a ghost is an ability specific to Wilbur and Jshlatt.

Also, also, revival book is combat applicable if Dream fights with someone.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

True, but there's a reason why we are using Withers for scaling, instead of saying "Dream is Country Level, he blew L'Manburg". The fundamentals, like mobs, blocks, weapons, and their statistics are all the same, unless stated otherwise.

Well I agree with this to an extent- you can't "prove" the hardness of Bedrock without extensive commands- (creating a stupidly large explosion radius) and I also find scaling it to a command block rather Arbitrary, as the only thing linking them together amount to the very same thing as the damage values people note earlyer in this thread that we don't use to scale- arbitrary in game numbers.

For a ghost, we already have two examples, plus Philza said that when he'll die, he'll become ghost as well.
Also, there are no reasons to believe that becoming a ghost is an ability specific to Wilbur and Jshlatt.

Also, also, revival book is combat applicable if Dream fights with someone.

I wasn't claming they wouldn't become ghosts, I was claiming the mechanics were at the very least inconsistent- people taking a varying amount of time to form and become a ghost

As well this wouldn't be combat applicable for 2 reasons, 1 them dieing then being resurrected would fall under encompastation rules, not BFR, I believe that's just an hour or 2, and tommy shows even a few days later your ghost still wouldn't have formed, Glatt wasn't seen for months, and Mexican dream...(had a ghost who showed up once- like way later on one of karl's streams where he crys when he finds out Big Q destroyed El rapids)

And second they would have forgotten about the fight, Wilbur forgot about things when he become a ghost- and Philza said He'd fly around bulding things aimlessly, if they forget about the fight, they stay off the battle field and lose because of BFR rules

And for dream's revive book...--um to what extent? To revive his opponent? To summon someone for a one time wish- that was already used for the most useful item on the server?
~~I follow the technoblade point of view through and through~~
He also needs a fire to burn it, and seemingly time to write a new one- wasting his time holding a book in his hand is at a massive liability and risk, I don't know what he stands to gain from doing either of these things?

Unless he's fighting an undead I suppose- ghost bur implys it could resurrect a ghost where they died, which would be sort of, indirect BFR?
~~friendist victory second only to kirby's friendship~~

 

[MrKerf]

And for dream's revive book...--um to what extent? To revive his opponent?

I meant when he fights with someone against someone. Like 2v2 or 2v1, to ressurect his ally.

 

[InfiniteDay]

Well I agree with this to an extent- you can't "prove" the hardness of Bedrock without extensive commands- (creating a stupidly large explosion radius) and I also find scaling it to a command block rather Arbitrary, as the only thing linking them together amount to the very same thing as the damage values people note earlyer in this thread that we don't use to scale- arbitrary in game numbers.

The only thing to scale them to. Nobody has been able to show any bedrock-breaking ability (except Drista), and if they did it would be wildly inconsistent. We're not making Bedrock 8-B, or any other arbitrary value other than 5-C, because that's what it is in-game. It has no reason not to be the same. Also, they both are unbreakable to minecraft players, and have the same in-game values. These need to be taken into account in this case, as it is undamageable otherwise. All other mobs in Hypixel are very well damageable.

I wasn't claming they wouldn't become ghosts, I was claiming the mechanics were at the very least inconsistent- people taking a varying amount of time to form and become a ghost

As well this wouldn't be combat applicable for 2 reasons, 1 them dieing then being resurrected would fall under encompastation rules, not BFR, I believe that's just an hour or 2, and tommy shows even a few days later your ghost still wouldn't have formed, Glatt wasn't seen for months, and Mexican dream...(had a ghost who showed up once- like way later on one of karl's streams where he crys when he finds out Big Q destroyed El rapids)

And second they would have forgotten about the fight, Wilbur forgot about things when he become a ghost- and Philza said He'd fly around bulding things aimlessly, if they forget about the fight, they stay off the battle field and lose because of BFR rules
they died, which would be sort of, indirect BFR?

Wilbur took a week, Glatt was seen in a month (though he definitely hasn't been around for a month), Mexican Dream cameoed alot later (doesn't mean that's when his ghost appeared) and Tommy was only dead for 3 days and had no ghost. And no, they wouldn't. Glatt doesn't, Ghostbur does, but SBA requires a battle-oriented mindset, even if normally peaceful. Them being forgetful is a non-issue under SBA. Encompastation states that it needs to be over a day.

And for dream's revive book...--um to what extent? To revive his opponent? To summon someone for a one time wish- that was already used for the most useful item on the server?
~~I follow the technoblade point of view through and through~~
He also needs a fire to burn it, and seemingly time to write a new one- wasting his time holding a book in his hand is at a massive liability and risk, I don't know what he stands to gain from doing either of these things?

Unless he's fighting an undead I suppose- ghost bur implys it could resurrect a ghost where they died, which would be sort of, indirect BFR?
~~friendist victory second only to kirby's friendship~~

I agree here.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

The only thing to scale them to. Nobody has been able to show any bedrock-breaking ability (except Drista), and if they did it would be wildly inconsistent. We're not making Bedrock 8-B, or any other arbitrary value other than 5-C, because that's what it is in-game. It has no reason not to be the same. Also, they both are unbreakable to minecraft players, and have the same in-game values. These need to be taken into account in this case, as it is undamageable otherwise. All other mobs in Hypixel are very well damageable.

My opinion holds firm, using those in game values as evidence is no different from using Damage values as evidence, the end portal frames can't be broken by the player- and dream XD certainly did. Bedrock survived the project dream catcher Nuke unharmed or at least in tact, if anything that should be used for it's durability.

Also---- what does hypixel have to do with this?

Them being forgetful is a non-issue under SBA.

I disagree, i don't think that applys to them forgoting the fight they are participating in "exists" or an outside force changing there personality. Still if it takes over a day for the ghost to appear, it wouldn't apply for combat, so this argument is ultimately pointless.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I meant when he fights with someone against someone. Like 2v2 or 2v1, to ressurect his ally.

He'll still need to write a new book, hit the person with it and make/find a fire to throw it in /: he'll be left horrible vulnerable doing that, it's rather unlikely he'd be able to use it unless his enemies had some sort of cooldown period

 

[InfiniteDay]

My opinion holds firm, using those in game values as evidence is no different from using Damage values as evidence, the end portal frames can't be broken by the player- and dream XD certainly did. Bedrock survived the project dream catcher Nuke unharmed or at least in tact, if anything that should be used for it's durability.

Also---- what does hypixel have to do with this?

Hypixel was the example you also brought up. And surviving a nuke with no calc, unharmed, and only harmable by the two god-tiers, who one-shot? 5-C is the only possible tier. Scaling it to something obviously far below it's durability makes no sense, considering we have a value used both in canon, and exemplified by the DreamSMP themselves. With your logic, we shouldn't have 8-B armour, as those objective values are used for scaling.

disagree, i don't think that applys to them forgoting the fight they are participating in "exists" or an outside force changing there personality. Still if it takes over a day for the ghost to appear, it wouldn't apply for combat, so this argument is ultimately pointless.

Then why did you bring it up? Them being forgetful of the fight, and I repeat, is a complete non-issue under any standard. It will not happen in SBA. Your argument defies logic.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Hypixel was the example you also brought up.

I'll be honest I don't remember this, if I brought this up last time I was hear a few weeks ago, I've long sense forgotten this allegory

And surviving a nuke with no calc, unharmed, and only harmable by the two god-tiers, who one-shot? 5-C is the only possible tier. Scaling it to something obviously far below it's durability makes no sense, considering we have a value used both in canon, and exemplified by the DreamSMP themselves.

well for one, I feel the Nukes should have a calc, and frankly all the evidence for that 5-C comes from a theoretical command that could never be performed in minecraft, and will never be performed in the narrative of the Dream SMP, scaling them to an actual narrrive even rather then something several steps disconnected to the narrative, and couldn't possibly ever occure inside it, makes much more sense to me, I don't view it as the only possible why, But I think scaling things to events in the narrative makes more sense then using events far outside it.

With your logic, we shouldn't have 8-B armour, as those objective values are used for scaling.

Actually 8-B comes from lava Calcs, and everyone who has a profile has netherite which survives in lava and fire, so it wouldn't make a difference, as they already scale above it (unless those calcs were discredited sense the last time I was on the wiki, But I haven't seen any evidence they were)

Then why did you bring it up? Them being forgetful of the fight, and I repeat, is a complete non-issue under any standard. It will not happen in SBA. Your argument defies logic.

Well Honestly it's because it hadn't accorded to me until I'd finished typing, and I didn't want to leave your objection unaddressed, I believe we fundamentally interpret Ghostbur's amnise quite differently, I believe he is (or was I suppose) incapable of harboring any negative memories. Because after Doomsday he gets into a screeming match with Philza about letting friend die, and then turns around and speaks to him like nothing ever happened. And before with the butcher army he fails to understand they intend to do Techno harm, that is the kind of memory loss or suppression I am referring to in this instance, SBA's "willing to kill" dosen't override what amounts to a core weakness of the character.

 

[InfiniteDay]

well for one, I feel the Nukes should have a calc, and frankly all the evidence for that 5-C comes from a theoretical command that could never be performed in minecraft, and will never be performed in the narrative of the Dream SMP, scaling them to an actual narrrive even rather then something several steps disconnected to the narrative, and couldn't possibly ever occure inside it, makes much more sense to me, I don't view it as the only possible why, But I think scaling things to events in the narrative makes more sense then using events far outside it.

Despite the calc for the nuke (if it ever happens) being meaningless and having no scaling potential. We scale characters to canon. We scale weapon to canon. We should scale command block (and the others) to canon. The calc for nuke did not harm Bedrock is any way. We should scale them to the one definite value which it can scale to, regardless.

Actually 8-B comes from lava Calcs, and everyone who has a profile has netherite which survives in lava and fire, so it wouldn't make a difference, as they already scale above it (unless those calcs were discredited sense the last time I was on the wiki, But I haven't seen any evidence they were).

Oh, thanks, didn't know that. Thanks for telling me!

Well Honestly it's because it hadn't accorded to me until I'd finished typing, and I didn't want to leave your objection unaddressed, I believe we fundamentally interpret Ghostbur's amnise quite differently, I believe he is (or was I suppose) incapable of harboring any negative memories. Because after Doomsday he gets into a screeming match with Philza about letting friend die, and then turns around and speaks to him like nothing ever happened. And before with the butcher army he fails to understand they intend to do Techno harm, that is the kind of memory loss or suppression I am referring to in this instance, SBA's "willing to kill" dosen't override what amounts to a core weakness of the character.

Negative memories, SBA requiring a battle-oriented mindset, ghostburt forgetting a fight can not and will not happen. Also, glatt directly contradicts this "forgetful" theory. This is wiki required. It is impossible under any possible standard that ghostbur will not fight. Literally impossible. Your argument is a mute point under any guideline. I'm not humoring this.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Negative memories, SBA requiring a battle-oriented mindset, ghostburt forgetting a fight can not and will not happen. Also, glatt directly contradicts this "forgetful" theory. This is wiki required. It is impossible under any possible standard that ghostbur will not fight. Literally impossible. Your argument is a mute point under any guideline. I'm not humoring this.

I mean, it's mute anyway because all evidence we have implys forming a ghost takes too long to be combat applicable, I should say if it's not clear, I'm still talking about this point because this is a general discussion thread and I find the topic interesting, if your not having fun you don't need to keep replying to, most of this really, I'm bringing up alot of this because it interest me more so then because I want anything to actually be changed, I have fun doing this and I hope you do too.

Anyway, I still disagree with you, SBA dosen't wipe away weaknesses- for example I could aurge Technoblade would be able to make it from his spawn to New York the SBA location no matter how far away on the planet it was to the battleground because of the strength of nether travel and his stamina/speed and his character's adaptiude for effectcy and determination meanwhile, even if we ignore speed limitations, there's no way Ghostbur could possibly Go on a multi day journey without getting ultimately sidetracked and forgetting the fight, because that's just his character, he's willing to kill but he doesn't suddenly have a better attention span.

Oh, thanks, didn't know that. Thanks for telling me!

Your welcome friend, but I just checked, it certainly has been discredited somehow, right now 8-B comes from explosion calcs of charged creepers and The wither spawn expulsion, either way Shields still negate all the damage of those things - and Axes negate shields. ~~actually if you give bedrock 5-C you should really be giving shields 5-C durability to be consistent, because if your using it that theoretical explosion also won't damage you~~ If you want to ask why swords and Axes would be comparable then, it be because people treat them as such on the SMP aka in the narrative, characters have argued about which is better as well

Ok sidetrack, obsidian has a blast resistant of 3000, if you use a similar method to bedrock's to determine it's durability you'd probably get something in the country level range, maybe higher, the difference betwee moon level and country level is over a million fold, well Bedrock's blast resistant is only 3,000 times grester then obsidian's- and Withers can destory them on mass (because there fire balls treat all blocks not on a tag list like they have a blast resistant of 5) that means of determining a block's durability is kinda obscene

Despite the calc for the nuke (if it ever happens) being meaningless and having no scaling potential. We scale characters to canon. We scale weapon to canon. We should scale command block (and the others) to canon. The calc for nuke did not harm Bedrock is any way. We should scale them to the one definite value which it can scale to, regardless.

And as I've said before I agree with that ideology it to an extent, of course the wither Will behave the same in most circumstances in normal minecraft as it will on the dream SMP as it's a survival world, as will other mobs, however it is it's own narrative, how about I go through what I mean with an example?


There has been alot of talk about The Nuke being so huge, it only be needed in a conflict with dreamXD, people joke about this when he comes up a fair amount, if the Nuke did kill DreamXD and take one of his lives theoretically, what would you have be done? I'd rather scale DreamXD himself to the nuke's power because it's an in lore event and the 'feat' of bedrock is something that could not be replicated in minecraft, even less so on on the dream SMP itself.

And because of another fact, the only reason minecraft has things like Normal mobs scaling to bosses dispite that being unheard of for other games, is because it's a sandbox game without lore to imply there weaker, I'm sure this is also part of why bedrock's moon level was accepted, well the DreamSMP dose have lore and alot of it to be drawn from.

 

[InfiniteDay]

I mean, it's mute anyway because all evidence we have implys forming a ghost takes too long to be combat applicable, I should say if it's not clear, I'm still talking about this point because this is a general discussion thread and I find the topic interesting, if your not having fun you don't need to keep replying to, most of this really, I'm bringing up alot of this because it interest me more so then because I want anything to actually be changed, I have fun doing this and I hope you do too.

Anyway, I still disagree with you, SBA dosen't wipe away weaknesses- for example I could aurge Technoblade would be able to make it from his spawn to New York the SBA location no matter how far away on the planet it was to the battleground because of the strength of nether travel and his stamina/speed and his character's adaptiude for effectcy and determination meanwhile, even if we ignore speed limitations, there's no way Ghostbur could possibly Go on a multi day journey without getting ultimately sidetracked and forgetting the fight, because that's just his character, he's willing to kill but he doesn't suddenly have a better attention span.

The mere existence of Glatt denies your whole "muh forgetful in a fight!!!!" ghostbur theory. Under SBA, it will not happen. I will not humor you anymore. I will not respond to this point. Also, your whole "doesn't wipe out weaknesses" is a false equivalency when this supposed weakness that supposedly would occur makes no sense, is inapplicable under SBA standards, and denies the whole aspect of Glatt simply not being like ghostbur.

Your welcome friend, but I just checked, it certainly has been discredited somehow, right now 8-B comes from explosion calcs of charged creepers and The wither spawn expulsion, either way Shields still negate all the damage of those things - and Axes negate shields. ~~actually if you give bedrock 5-C you should really be giving shields 5-C durability to be consistent, because if your using it that theoretical explosion also won't damage you~~ If you want to ask why swords and Axes would be comparable then, it be because people treat them as such on the SMP aka in the narrative, characters have argued about which is better as well

Ok sidetrack, obsidian has a blast resistant of 3000, if you use a similar method to bedrock's to determine it's durability you'd probably get something in the country level range, maybe higher, the difference betwee moon level and country level is over a million fold, well Bedrock's blast resistant is only 3,000 times grester then obsidian's- and Withers can destory them on mass (because there fire balls treat all blocks not on a tag list like they have a blast resistant of 5) that means of determining a block's durability is kinda obscene

Your first point is game mechanics. An axe disabling a shield is just game mechanics, and the wither explosion does massive damage to a shields durability. So yes, a shield is 8-B, possibly Low 7-C. A wither explosion on let's say bedrock does... nothing. It damages the durability, sure, but that is so drop-in-the bucket amounts of damage that's it's essentially null and void. Blast resistance isn't the same as mining it or another method believe exists. All those god-tier blocks have the same stats for them. Your whole scaling chain relies on blast resistance, which is what tnt is used for, except blast resistance is extremely high for obsidian, when mining it takes far less. As I have said, bedrock, command blocks, etc. have the same resistance for everything. Being blast-resistant isn't everything, but for Bedrock it scales to all possible stats.

There has been alot of talk about The Nuke being so huge, it only be needed in a conflict with dreamXD, people joke about this when he comes up a fair amount, if the Nuke did kill DreamXD and take one of his lives theoretically, what would you have be done? I'd rather scale DreamXD himself to the nuke's power because it's an in lore event and the 'feat' of bedrock is something that could not be replicated in minecraft, even less so on on the dream SMP itself.

And because of another fact, the only reason minecraft has things like Normal mobs scaling to bosses dispite that being unheard of for other games, is because it's a sandbox game without lore to imply there weaker, I'm sure this is also part of why bedrock's moon level was accepted, well the DreamSMP dose have lore and alot of it to be drawn from.

It won't. DreamXD has invulnerability. DreamXD cannot scale to the nukes power physically. His 5-C will be revised to environmental destruction. Bedrock exists and is 5-C. Unless you want to debate it, saying that magically it is 8-B because nuke scaling, it's not happening. It cannot, and will not happen. Lore has no contradictions for it. It even backs up it's invincibility to normal attempts to break it. For your second point, there is a minecraft revision for that going on. Until it is applied, no changes will be made. Bedrocks moon level was accepted because of it's 5-C calc and that it's stats has no contradictions in proportion.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I think your getting a bit worked up

 

[InfiniteDay]

I'm not gonna debate it any longer. Unless you bring up a new point that abides by SBA, I will not respond.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

The mere existence of Glatt denies your whole "muh forgetful in a fight!!!!" ghostbur theory. Under SBA, it will not happen. I will not humor you anymore. I will not respond to this point. Also, your whole "doesn't wipe out weaknesses" is a false equivalency when this supposed weakness that supposedly would occur makes no sense, is inapplicable under SBA standards, and denies the whole aspect of Glatt simply not being like ghostbur.

Perhaps our issue on this point is that I stopped talking about ghost in general a few replys ago and was just talking about Ghostbur? It seems I didn't make that clear enough, Yes ghostbur and Glatt/Slatt have some clear differences about them, and it's in those differences that make it clear we don't know how Ghosts work, I recall hearing one thing for example, that the gym was Glatt's limbo and that he could not leave it- meaning he'd be comparable to aliveBur in that meeting not Ghostbur, but I haven't really mentioned this because I don't recall the source (I also know Mexican dream's limbo is a restaurant forever waiting for a date that will never come) in this context and with the above considered, I don't really see how Glatt/Slatt being different from Ghostbur has any barings on what I'm saying.
Honestly I don't see what you mean when you say this dosen't make sense I feel like I'm being fairly straight forward with my overall logic, there are several showing of Ghostbur being incapable of retaining negative memorys, he dosen't remeber any of the bad stuff he did in his life, So Clearly if he died and repawned he'd forget about the fight long before he reached the battleground again, you just don't seem to like it. You haven't gave a real counter to my argument either, you've simply said it gose against the standards and have long sense stopped even attempting to explain why, I Honestly don't understand what Glatt/Slatt has to do with this unless I didn't make it clear I was only talking about Ghostbur and not all possible ghosts on the SMP

Your first point is game mechanics. An axe disabling a shield is just game mechanics, and the wither explosion does massive damage to a shields durability. So yes, a shield is 8-B, possibly Low 7-C.

Not on the Dream SMP, it's why techno always carrys one they talk about Axes stopping shields, so it isn't a game mechanic there

A wither explosion on let's say bedrock does... nothing. It damages the durability, sure, but that is so drop-in-the bucket amounts of damage that's it's essentially null and void. Blast resistance isn't the same as mining it or another method believe exists.

Actually Explosion rays can't accumulate in game, but that's besides the point, unless you decide to look at explosions in minecraft in a 'game mechanic environment destruction'ish way, there wouldn't be a difference for durability both explosions and picking would be breaking the block, making an exceptions for some blocks to justify Bedrocks method is a double standard, but ultimately this isn't a dreamSMP discussion, it's a minecraft discussion and I'll make this thread later

It won't. DreamXD has invulnerability.

I Honestly Don't think there's a none zero chance, the writers of the dreamSMP aren't going to feel the need to be tethered to the 'creative mode rules' and people have talked about it a fair bit, whatever gets views. Honestly the only proof of his invulnerability are the joky references to creative mode and calling him God, which dosen't inherently give you that, and much like the family dynamic of Sleep bios ink was in that past, that is surely up for easy revision even if you chose to take it as anything more then a joke

DreamXD cannot scale to the nukes power physically. His 5-C will be revised to environmental destruction. Bedrock exists and is 5-C. Unless you want to debate it, saying that magically it is 8-B because nuke scaling, it's not happening. It cannot, and will not happen. Lore has no contradictions for it. It even backs up it's invincibility to normal attempts to break it. For your second point, there is a minecraft revision for that going on. Until it is applied, no changes will be made. Bedrocks moon level was accepted because of it's 5-C calc and that it's stats has no contradictions in proportion.

Actually quite a few people didn't like the 5-C bedrock thing for the same reasons I didn't reading through those recent minecraft revisions, it seems they just don't know it is used on the command block's profile, once I find the thread used to add the 5-C rating and read it, and if I'm not satisfied with that thread I do intend to make a revision thread about it, I really don't think it holds up, and it seems more then a few people hold the same ideas.

Also just saying, Nukes are probably Tier 6 if they got calced, Tier 7 at least given how minecraft calcs tend to handle explosion rays.--the dream SMP's seed is know if I have To do something crazy stupid like use it to and vidoe reference to list off every single block destroyed by the nuke for a calc---------- idk, I might do it if someone's willing to do the math

 

[InfiniteDay]

Not on the Dream SMP, it's why techno always carrys one they talk about Axes stopping shields, so it isn't a game mechanic there


Actually Explosion rays can't accumulate in game, but that's besides the point, unless you decide to look at explosions in minecraft in a 'game mechanic environment destruction'ish way, there wouldn't be a difference for durability both explosions and picking would be breaking the block, making an exceptions for some blocks to justify Bedrocks method is a double standard, but ultimately this isn't a dreamSMP discussion, it's a minecraft discussion and I'll make this thread later

It literally is. It disables the shield, not through breaking it, but because it's a game mechanic that makes it unable to be used for a short period after receiving that axe hit.

The value on the minecraft wiki means that it would take that many tnt in explosion damage respectively for it to break. Not that it actually takes that many tnt, as it would just crash the game. Mining it would take half a day with best equipment. And no, it's not an exception, if Bedrock has equal mining and explosion resistance than it would be fine to scale the explosion resistance. Actually thinking about this more, how do you calculate mining? This seems like an issue. Anyway, sure, you can make the thread.

I Honestly Don't think there's a none zero chance, the writers of the dreamSMP aren't going to feel the need to be tethered to the 'creative mode rules' and people have talked about it a fair bit, whatever gets views. Honestly the only proof of his invulnerability are the joky references to creative mode and calling him God, which dosen't inherently give you that, and much like the family dynamic of Sleep bios ink was in that past, that is surely up for easy revision even if you chose to take it as anything more then a joke

DreamXD was shown to be invulnerable in Techno's latest DreamSMP stream. Dream tried to punch him, with DreamXD being unfazed and no sign of the red damage indication. He is invulnerable in canon.

Actually quite a few people didn't like the 5-C bedrock thing for the same reasons I didn't reading through those recent minecraft revisions, it seems they just don't know it is used on the command block's profile, once I find the thread used to add the 5-C rating and read it, and if I'm not satisfied with that thread I do intend to make a revision thread about it, I really don't think it holds up, and it seems more then a few people hold the same ideas.

Also just saying, Nukes are probably Tier 6 if they got calced, Tier 7 at least given how minecraft calcs tend to handle explosion rays.--the dream SMP's seed is know if I have To do something crazy stupid like use it to and vidoe reference to list off every single block destroyed by the nuke for a calc---------- idk, I might do it if someone's willing to do the math

You are free to make the revision thread. Nukes would probably be high tier 8 or low tier 7, definitely not 6.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

It literally is. It disables the shield, not through breaking it, but because it's a game mechanic that makes it unable to be used for a short period after receiving that axe hit.

If the narrative of the Dream SMP addresses it,become Canon, just as a Command would become someone's ability if they used it and it was framed as there ability. In the Dream SMP's own narrative it isn't a video game after all. It's a story told through the median of one.

The value on the minecraft wiki means that it would take that many tnt in explosion damage respectively for it to break. Not that it actually takes that many tnt, as it would just crash the game. Mining it would take half a day with best equipment. And no, it's not an exception, if Bedrock has equal mining and explosion resistance than it would be fine to scale the explosion resistance. Actually thinking about this more, how do you calculate mining? This seems like an issue. Anyway, sure, you can make the thread.

Actually, not matter how much TnT you have, it can't break blocks with a high blast resistant, like I said before Explosion don't stack in game, maybe you mean 'in lore', but I'm referring to in game right now

DreamXD was shown to be invulnerable in Techno's latest DreamSMP stream. Dream tried to punch him, with DreamXD being unfazed and no sign of the red damage indication. He is invulnerable in canon.

I certainly hope you understand, the narrative will probably see a difference between an unarmed man hitting someone- and an actual weapon hitting them (which hasn't happened) and a nukelyer warhead hitting them in the face. He no selled a punch from an unarmed dream is all that really means.

You are free to make the revision thread. Nukes would probably be high tier 8 or low tier 7, definitely not 6.

We never know unless we see, there calc should have a larger value then the tier 7 one at least

 

[InfiniteDay]

If the narrative of the Dream SMP addresses it,become Canon, just as a Command would become someone's ability if they used it and it was framed as there ability. In the Dream SMP's own narrative it isn't a video game after all. It's a story told through the median of one.

It hasn't yet, and as such follows minecraft laws.

Actually, not matter how much TnT you have, it can't break blocks with a high blast resistant, like I said before Explosion don't stack in game, maybe you mean 'in lore', but I'm referring to in game right now

I don't mean in lore, the minecraft wiki states it would take an explosion equal in power to that many tnt to destroy bedrock.

I certainly hope you understand, the narrative will probably see a difference between an unarmed man hitting someone- and an actual weapon hitting them (which hasn't happened) and a nukelyer warhead hitting them in the face. He no selled a punch from an unarmed dream is all that really means.

No like, it gave him no damage indication. Nothing will. It's not durability, it's plain invulnerability.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

It hasn't yet, and as such follows minecraft laws.

It kind of, has? Like I said, it's the reason Technoblade uses an Axe, like, according to you DreamXD only needed to be hit once without a Damage indicator in a 'lore' heavy situation to confirm his invurnalbilty, by the same standard of proof shouldn't the Axe only need to be used in one lore heavy fight to disable a shield to prove it? Not even having the functionality being talk about be neccessary as proof? Just it happening during a 'lore stream' seems like it would be enough by those standards.

I don't mean in lore, the minecraft wiki states it would take an explosion equal in power to that many tnt to destroy bedrock.

The wiki means one explosion ray with the value of all of those TnTs, in game it dosen't matter how many separate explosions you use, there effects don't stack together, they can only affect the blocks they could affect individually, this could be made most apparent with the lava block, only having a blast resistant of 100, 10 point blank TnT should Destroy it, but if you arrange such a contraption to drop far more TnT into one, it will be left unharmed.

No like, it gave him no damage indication. Nothing will. It's not durability, it's plain invulnerability.

Do you believe that because dream decided to have Dream XD to show up in what was professed to be a filler stream on stream, and punch him giving no damage indication, that the writers of the DreamSMP will feel there options with him are now limited? I do not feel this way, if someone had already planned somesort of "kill DreamXD ark!" This event of dream punching dreamXD without a damage indicator isn't going to stop them

 

[InfiniteDay]

It kind of, has? Like I said, it's the reason Technoblade uses an Axe, like, according to you DreamXD only needed to be hit once without a Damage indicator in a 'lore' heavy situation to confirm his invurnalbilty, by the same standard of proof shouldn't the Axe only need to be used in one lore heavy fight to disable a shield to prove it? Not even having the functionality being talk about be neccessary as proof? Just it happening during a 'lore stream' seems like it would be enough by those standards.

DreamXD not having the damage indicator isn't a game-mechanic scenario, it means he is invulnerable to physical damage. An axe disabling a shield isn't breaking through it, it literally stop the user from being able to use it. It's not chopping of your hand, you don't take damage. It's literally a game mechanic meant to nerf shields in direct combat. Your argument is based off lore, where i've never heard in lore that it's chopping through the shield or any other reasoning. My argument is based off game mechanics coming in to play when an axe disables a shield. What even is it anyway?

The wiki means one explosion ray with the value of all of those TnTs, in game it dosen't matter how many separate explosions you use, there effects don't stack together, they can only affect the blocks they could affect individually, this could be made most apparent with the lava block, only having a blast resistant of 100, 10 point blank TnT should Destroy it, but if you arrange such a contraption to drop far more TnT into one, it will be left unharmed.

This is what i've been saying the whole time. Damage rays will be damage rays.

Do you believe that because dream decided to have Dream XD to show up in what was professed to be a filler stream on stream, and punch him giving no damage indication, that the writers of the DreamSMP will feel there options with him are now limited? I do not feel this way, if someone had already planned somesort of "kill DreamXD ark!" This event of dream punching dreamXD without a damage indicator isn't going to stop them

Your argument is based on heresy that does not directly refute my point, but rather creates a hypothetical scenario that can or cannot happen to debunk my point. Your argument is simply unable to be refuted, as it does not refute my point. As I have stated, DreamXD has no damage indicator, like all creative mode players. It's listed in his profile as well. He is invulnerable to physical damage in lore, lead on by the fact he blatantly has creative mode. Unless the lore cancels this out, which is has not and has only fed into it, this argument is invalid.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

DreamXD not having the damage indicator isn't a game-mechanic scenario, it means he is invulnerable to physical damage. An axe disabling a shield isn't breaking through it, it literally stop the user from being able to use it. It's not chopping of your hand, you don't take damage. It's literally a game mechanic meant to nerf shields in direct combat. Your argument is based off lore, where i've never heard in lore that it's chopping through the shield or any other reasoning. My argument is based off game mechanics coming in to play when an axe disables a shield. What even is it anyway?

This arguement I can fully understand and accept, some of your others I kind of couldn't through out this discussion? Either way, The Axe have been displayed in some froms of media as throwing a shield to the side to attack, given there intended use in close melee combat this makes sense, as for armor, I probably shouldn't have answered as hastily as I did, the 'real' proper answer is the DreamSMP has lore to imply what is Superior to eachother, and it should probably be grazed for more feats (AP feats and durability for example, the egg survived a mountain of TNT going off on top of it on a Quakity lore stream once, those rules about explosions certainly don't apply to lore events)

This is what i've been saying the whole time. Damage rays will be damage rays.

I do feel like there has been a missunderstanding? I've just been saying from the start multiple separate explosion rays can't stack and couldn't break a block one of the explosion couldn't in minecraft? Perhaps we got confused talking about different topics?

Looking back we did have a misunderstanding, I was never objecting to the idea a single explosion large enough could destroy a block with high blast resistant in game, I was saying multiple explosions such as from tnt can't accumulate to destroy a block with high blast resistant.

Your argument is based on heresy that does not directly refute my point, but rather creates a hypothetical scenario that can or cannot happen to debunk my point. Your argument is simply unable to be refuted, as it does not refute my point. As I have stated, DreamXD has no damage indicator, like all creative mode players. It's listed in his profile as well. He is invulnerable to physical damage in lore, lead on by the fact he blatantly has creative mode. Unless the lore cancels this out, which is has not and has only fed into it, this argument is invalid.

Like, this is what I ment at the start of my first response, I haven't been aurging for anything in this point? I've been questioning why your so sure DreamXD having invulnerability and creative mode in this stream ment them going through with "We nuked god in minecraft" is impossible, I asked the theoretical question orginally because I wanted to better understand the standards you were applying for evidence in the Dream SMP in a situation where I'd already given mine, I've followed up on this point Because I care about the lore, and I didn't understand where your opinion about that was coming from?

I, Honestly don't know what point you think I'm trying to refute with this either, looking back, there's nothing left unresolved for this to be misinterpreted as a response to. What I'd really like to know, is exactly what you think is happening in this point? What do you think I'm arguing "for" and what do you think I'm trying to refute?

I guess before posting I'll take a quick guess, because of my attempt to speak from the view of the writers that didn't translate well several replys back, you've assumed I'm somehow trying to question the legitimacy of DreamXD's creative mode based on the Idea the writer's might not stick with it?... if that's so I'm just, not doing that at all like I said I'm questioning why your so convinced the Nukes on dreamXD are now off the SMP's table

 

[InfiniteDay]

This arguement I can fully understand and accept, some of your others I kind of couldn't through out this discussion? Either way, The Axe have been displayed in some froms of media as throwing a shield to the side to attack, given there intended use in close melee combat this makes sense, as for armor, I probably shouldn't have answered as hastily as I did, the 'real' proper answer is the DreamSMP has lore to imply what is Superior to eachother, and it should probably be grazed for more feats (AP feats and durability for example, the egg survived a mountain of TNT going off on top of it on a Quakity lore stream once, those rules about explosions certainly don't apply to lore events)

I can see this to. I can accept the axe opinion as well.

Like, this is what I ment at the start of my first response, I haven't been aurging for anything in this point? I've been questioning why your so sure DreamXD having invulnerability and creative mode in this stream ment them going through with "We nuked god in minecraft" is impossible, I asked the theoretical question orginally because I wanted to better understand the standards you were applying for evidence in the Dream SMP in a situation where I'd already given mine, I've followed up on this point Because I care about the lore, and I didn't understand where your opinion about that was coming from?

I, Honestly don't know what point you think I'm trying to refute with this either, looking back, there's nothing left unresolved for this to be misinterpreted as a response to. What I'd really like to know, is exactly what you think is happening in this point? What do you think I'm arguing "for" and what do you think I'm trying to refute?

I guess before posting I'll take a quick guess, because of my attempt to speak from the view of the writers that didn't translate well several replys back, you've assumed I'm somehow trying to question the legitimacy of DreamXD's creative mode based on the Idea the writer's might not stick with it?... if that's so I'm just, not doing that at all like I said I'm questioning why your so convinced the Nukes on dreamXD are now off the SMP's table

You've said this yourself many times, your questioning DreamXD's invulnerability. You even say so in your first sentence (of the paragraph I am responding to). I'm sitting here, dumfounded why you brought Nukes to DreamXD and expect to me to understand anything past that point. That will not happen. Literally won't. DreamXD, if he were to be nuked, wouldn't be affected, unless he would directly outside creative mode. This whole argument is stupid.