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New Low 2-C 3 way brawl.

Purgy said:
Where was it stated Yhwach saw the entire future from his defeat by Yamamoto a thousand years ago to beating Ichibe?
Click to expand...
He said that he had seen Ichibe die 3 steps before the seal he drew and the last time he used the Almighty was 1000 yrs ago.
 
Makstar05 said:
He said that he had seen Ichibe die 3 steps before the seal he drew and the last time he used the Almighty was 1000 yrs ago.
Click to expand...
He was using The Almighty when he said that

Ichibe powernulls Yhwach -> Yhwach activates The Almighty and nulls Ichibe's powernull -> Ichibe tries EEing Yhwach -> Yhwach nulls the EE and kills Ichibe -> Yhwach states he saw Ichibe die 3 steps short

Actually I see what you mean, before they started fighting Yhwach states he'll die 3 steps short. Interesting, yeah I'm not really sure how to explain that.
 
Purgy said:
He was using The Almighty when he said that

Ichibe powernulls Yhwach -> Yhwach activates The Almighty and nulls Ichibe's powernull -> Ichibe tries EEing Yhwach -> Yhwach nulls the EE and kills Ichibe -> Yhwach states he saw Ichibe die 3 steps short

Actually I see what you mean, before they started fighting Yhwach states he'll die 3 steps short. Interesting, yeah I'm not really sure how to explain that.
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Either the Almighty didn’t have power null that time or he constantly needs to keep it on.Either way,Yhwach can null powers in the present.
 
Hmm I guess that's fair then? Has he ever shown to null something like 2-B EE or would that be NLF?
 
Greenshifter said:
Hmm I guess that's fair then? Has he ever shown to null something like 2-B EE or would that be NLF?
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He nulled Ichibe's EE which may or may not be conceptual type 3, but as I said, AP doesn't really matter because it's not the kind of powernull that overpowers the ability, the ability is just forced to take Yhwach's side and not work against him.

Also, I thought Alien X is Low 2-C now? Where does 2-B come from?
 
Purgy said:
He nulled Ichibe's EE which may or may not be conceptual type 3, but as I said, AP doesn't really matter because it's not the kind of powernull that overpowers the ability, the ability is just forced to take Yhwach's side and not work against him.

Also, I thought Alien X is Low 2-C now? Where does 2-B come from?
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All right I guess and Servantis' statement about erasing the multiverse is what gave him EE. So he indeed got low 2-C AP with 2-B hax (EE) now (EE potency is determined by AoE). People will probably contest his EE later but I pretty much countered everything already in Alien X vs Demigra and 00potato said EE was fine to use in this match.
 
I guess it’s fine but 2-B EE isn’t exactly a thing.

Like it can effect that much but it doesn’t effect how nullable it is, hax never really worked like that.
 
Hmm, I know it can bypass low 2-C EE resistance due to being 2-B EE. But in relation to powernull no idea.
 
Yhwach can kill him in quite a few ways, initially I thought there were only a couple but then I remembered Yhwach can negate regen
  1. Several abilities that ignore durability
  2. Thought based death hax
  3. Transmutation
  4. BFR
  5. Sealing
  6. Absorbing him
  7. Copying Alien X's abilities and killing him with EE
Probably a couple more that are listed on his profile
 
Purgy said:
Yhwach can kill him in quite a few ways, initially I thought there were only a couple but then I remembered Yhwach can negate regen
  1. Several abilities that ignore durability
  2. Thought based death hax
  3. Transmutation
  4. BFR
  5. Sealing
  6. Absorbing him
  7. Copying Alien X's abilities and killing him with EE
Probably a couple more that are listed on his profile
Click to expand...
1. Time reverse on himself unless they insta-kill
2. How good is it/how does it work?
3. Time reverse
4. No, have you checked AX’s range?
5. Time reverse
6. Elaborate please
7. Elaborate please, his powers are inside his pocket dimension and one of his powers includes multiple personalities which would make Yhwach indecisive and incap him.
 
Greenshifter said:
1. Time reverse on himself unless they insta-kill
2. How good is it/how does it work?
3. Time reverse
4. No, have you checked AX’s range?
5. Time reverse
6. Elaborate please
7. Elaborate please, his powers are inside his pocket dimension and one of his powers includes multiple personalities which would make Yhwach indecisive and incap him.
Click to expand...
  1. Has Alien X actually done that? And would it work if he's for example, decapitated?
  2. He imagines you dead and you die
  3. Has he reversed time while transmuted before?
  4. True I forgot about that, so if Yhwach BFR's him into a different dimension would Alien X still be able to fight back? I understand he has 2-B range but isn't that solely with EE?
  5. Fair enough
  6. Yhwach can absorb anything, he has all absorption types, so he touches Alien X and absorbs him like he did with Mimihagi or the Soul King.
  7. What do you mean his powers are inside his pocket dimension? How does that work exactly? Yhwach wouldn't copy his personalities, they're not even abilities, they're just part of his biology.
 
1) It is highly implied that Bellicus and Serena can still use their abilities while Ben is untransformed (so only a stream of DNA on Primus is what's "left" of his body), they just needed a tie-breaker. They can create a space-time continuum with an energy wave from within the pocket dimension so time reversing a universe (or themselves since AX's very first power on-screen was reversing a broken dam, meaning it can be used locally as well) should be piece of cake.
2) Wtf, biological death or like way beyond that? Usually you need to destroy his body to destroy his pocket dimension (somehow that works) to destroy Alien X, not sure how death hax interacts with this.
3) see nr.1
4) His reality warping has 2-B range and he can create portals to and from the Forge of Creation which is outside the multiverse, so really he even outranges 2-B's with his portals.
6) Hmm, does he become a part of his body then? If it's good enough to negate what I said in nr.1 then fair I guess. Edit: So he's basically Aggregor and also needs to deal with personalities?
7) I mean his energy comes from there, since you see the stream of energy needed to create the universe, comes from Bellicus and Serena. Aggregor specifically targeted a baby Celestialsapien who didn't have personalities yet so he wouldn't have to deal with them after absorbing it's powers (granted Aggregor absorbs/can absorb Energy, DNA, Mana (Life Force and Magic), Matter and Powers and Abilities so maybe Yhwach is exempt from it).
 
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Greenshifter said:
1) It is highly implied that Bellicus and Serena can still use their abilities while Ben is untransformed (so only a stream of DNA on Primus is what's "left" of his body), they just needed a tie-breaker. They can create a space-time continuum with an energy wave from within the pocket dimension so time reversing a universe (or themselves since AX's very first power on-screen was reversing a broken dam, meaning it can be used locally as well) should be piece of cake.
2) Wtf, biological death or like way beyond that? Usually you need to destroy his body to destroy his pocket dimension (somehow that works) to destroy Alien X, not sure how death hax interacts with this.
3) see nr.1
4) His reality warping has 2-B range and he can create portals to and from the Forge of Creation which is outside the multiverse, so really he even outranges 2-B's with his portals.
6) Hmm, does he become a part of his body then? If it's good enought to negate what I said in nr.1 then fair I guess.
7) I mean his energy comes from there, since you see the stream of energy needed to create the universe, comes from Bellicus and Serena. Aggregor specifically targeted a baby Celestialsapien who didn't have personalities yet so he wouldn't have to deal with them after absorbing it's powers (granted Aggregor absorbs/can absorb Energy, DNA, Mana (Life Force and Magic), Matter and Powers and Abilities so maybe Yhwach is exempt from it).
Click to expand...
1. This makes no sense to me, partly because my knowledge on Ben 10 isn't that great, so I'll just take your word for it.
2. It comes from Gremmy who has the ability to turn his imagination into reality, so he imagines Alien X dead and he just dies, we're not explicitly told how it functions.
4. Alright
6. They don't physically merge bodies, but I guess you could say Alien X becomes a part of Yhwach, yeah.
7. Yhwach has Power Mimicry and Shapeshifting with The Yourself (Yhwach can mimic not just the appearance of others but also their memories, knowledge, powers, and equipment), and from what we've seen, he basically just has to look at you to do it.
 
1. ... Ok
2. Hmm he would probably need to imagine how he dies right? Which would be something like atomization, complete body destruction or pocket dimension destruction (the last one being unlikely to imagine without prior knowledge)
6. Actually for some of the stuff Yhwach would want to absorb he'd need multiversal range.
7. He might need to deal with personalities then and get incapped, unless he can kill them (assuming they're not just all aspects of himself).
 
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Greenshifter said:
1. ... Ok
2. Hmm he would probably need to imagine how he dies right? Which would be something like atomization, complete body destruction or pocket dimension destruction (the last one being unlikely to imagine without prior knowledge)
6. Neither does Aggregor so he'll probably need to deal with personalites, not sure if this kills the previous personalities or whether he just creates him own ones. Might not matter if he can kill the other personalities since he now has access to the pocket dimension.
7. He might need to deal with personalities then, might not matter if he can kill them though.
Click to expand...
2. Probably not, as I said, we don't know how it explicitly works but Gremmy just imagined two people dead and they died without showing any injuries, you could say he did something internally but that's baseless, it's more likely that it's just purely supernatural and doesn't have a real explanation.
6. I have no idea, but if he has access to the pocket dimension, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to.
7. Same as above
 
Purgy said:
2. Probably not, as I said, we don't know how it explicitly works but Gremmy just imagined two people dead and they died without showing any injuries, you could say he did something internally but that's baseless, it's more likely that it's just purely supernatural and doesn't have a real explanation.
6. I have no idea, but if he has access to the pocket dimension, I don't see why he wouldn't be able to.
7. Same as above
Click to expand...
2. Kinda NLF that it'd work on AX?
6. Yeah I'm not sure whether Aggregor has the range necessary to get to AX's pocket dimension with his absorption or whether it's because he also absorbs DNA and all that, that the rest would come naturally (this is probably an inconsistency with the writers tbh). I just know that personalities and power of Celestialsapiens are nigh-impossible to seperate.
 
Greenshifter said:
2. Kinda NLF that it'd work on AX?
6. Yeah I'm not sure whether Aggregor has the range necessary to get to AX's pocket dimension with his absorption or whether it's because he also absorbs DNA and all that, that the rest would come naturally (this is probably an inconsistency with the writers tbh).
Click to expand...
2. How is it an NLF? Alien X doesn't have resistance to death hax
 
I mean usually we don't assume death hax is more potent than complete biological death without further proof IIRC, which AX can survive.
 
Greenshifter said:
I mean usually we don't assume death hax is more potent than complete biological death without further proof IIRC, which AX can survive.
Click to expand...
But as I said, there's no evidence it works by killing somebody via halting biological processes or something, both the people it were used on just inexplicably died with no explanation, and we know Gremmy can even imagine his own death and he's literally just a disembodied brain, so it's most likely just pure supernatural and doesn't have to make sense.
 
Hmm guess it works then? I'm still iffy on actually having or bypassing the range needed though.
 
I had a feeling Ren would be here, glad my intuition is right. I'm not sure why the OO is allowed, it just makes this a bigger stomp, passive multiversal law manipulation that renders him invulnerable.

What stops Ren from thinking Mudo/Hama on both parties and instantly killing them, along with their mind, soul, information, and concept? Dodging it isn't going to be easy, as he can simply spawn the spell on you, giving you little to no time to evade. With Ren's resistance to Fate and Causality (which surpasses Type 4 Acausals), Yhwach isn't seeing his future.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
I had a feeling Ren would be here, glad my intuition is right. I'm not sure why the OO is allowed, it just makes this a bigger stomp, passive multiversal law manipulation that renders him invulnerable.

What stops Ren from thinking Mudo/Hama on both parties and instantly killing them, along with their mind, soul, information, and concept? Dodging it isn't going to be easy, as he can simply spawn the spell on you, giving you little to no time to evade. With Ren's resistance to Fate and Causality (which surpasses Type 4 Acausals), Yhwach isn't seeing his future.
Click to expand...
Ren vs either of them is a blatant stomp, no point arguing it.
 
Yeah AX ain’t countering thought-based concept stuff. At best you can go for incon if both are bloodlusted and Ren can’t recover from 2-B thought-based EE that works on souls.
 
Don't see anything on AX's profile that could give Yhwach trouble.Type 2 Acausality doesn't stop the null since he nulls from the present up to the future, as I explained above.He also doesn't have ressistance to power absorption so Sankt Altar GG.
Idk about the other guy.
 
Makstar05 said:
Don't see anything on AX's profile that could give Yhwach trouble.Type 2 Acausality doesn't stop the null since he nulls from the present up to the future, as I explained above.He also doesn't have ressistance to power absorption so Sankt Altar GG.
Idk about the other guy.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't the null also work against Joker then?
 
Well anyways I still have some arguments for AX vs Yhwach but we should probably continue this in their dedicated thread without Joker and after my CRT is accepted.
 
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