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Bleach: Reiatsu Question(s)

ProfessorKukui4Life

ProfessorKukui4Life

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Making this because I’m not 100% sure this is accepted, ever was accepted or got changed at some point.

Do we still consider Reiatsu to = AP & Durability? Or does it not equal either?
 
If you are asking if we scale how much reiatsu a character has to weak character, I'm 100% sure we do.

If you mean something else tho...idk.
 
YungManzi said:
If you are asking if we scale how much reiatsu a character has to weak character, I'm 100% sure we do.

If you mean something else tho...idk.
Click to expand...
Nah not that, just asking if Reiatsu in general scales to the users AP and Durability or if it doesn’t.
 
There's been a few thread trying to state otherwise, I've seen none that worked, so I guess it still does.
 
So, reiatsu is basically normal soul manip and the hax potency depend on feats (number affected)?
 
Reikyoku is the energy of the verse that gets =

Reaitsu is just a thing that reikyoku gives u and is treated as soul hax + a few other things like fear and paralysis hax etc.
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
this has already been discussed before and by one of the most knowledgeable members of the bleach verse here https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:2143040
Click to expand...
I've had immense issues with that thread, but since it's locked, I'll quickly sum it up here. @AppleLord basically said most of it and it was dodged. If it seems a little lengthy, I apologize, I like to explain my counters in-depth so people understand my standpoint.
  • He forgets that Zanpakutos are literally the soul, and that the Zanpakuto need to take the force coming back (which is a feat for their dura) shown with and explained to Ichigo.
  • His point about Byakuya was already stated and explained (by Applelord) to be similar to Gaara's case. "Casting aside defense" with Senkai refers to how the petals don't defend Byakuya right here. That is backed up by when Ichigo goes to strike, Byakuya has to defend with his own Zanpakuto, while the entire fight prior he just spam uses his petals to fight and not even moving an inch from his previous state. He even says it just makes the blades sharper, which is focusing all the force in one point. It's not a boost, he's just using what he used to defend for attack, and instead of him using his petals to defend (like Gaara and his sand), he has to defend himself (same point about Zanpakuto above). He mistook defense for durability.
  • His point about Ikkaku debunked itself. It's never stated to be an amp, it's just allowing to use it's maximum abilities. The original rule for Ap and Dura was Dura ≥ AP from Newton's 3rd law. This bankai allows Dura and Ap to have a closer gap (if not equal) (same point about Zanpakuto above).
  • His point about the Espada annoyed me. Why would a charged attack be a durability boost? It shown that Nnoitra survived his own Cero multiplied by 2, showing that they have dura that's good and comparable to their AP. His argument was that the Gran Ray Cero was magnitudes of AP higher than a Cero which means magnitudes higher than the other Espada's Dura. He forgot that a Cero to them is a death beam to Frieza. They're just using the max potential of a casual attack. He says that it's much higher than the durability of any Espada lower, but he seems to forget that the strength gap through the Espada are already stupidly large that it's not even funny (a not trying Ulquiorra > Peak Ichigo who rivaled Grimmjow), and they're only 2 numbers apart (same point about Zanpakuto above).
  • His point about Suì-Fēng was that since the wiki has her dura at Mountain and Bankai at Mountain+, it automatically debunks itself, even though it could just be explained that they saw only her Shikai prior and gave her mountain level Dura cause of her Shikai, Easily revise her page and give her Mountain+ (same point about Zanpakuto above).
  • His point about Yamamoto is countered by Kenpachi's original point and how there is a set amount of Spiritual Energy that unconsciously leaks. He could amp his dura even more, he wasn't even prepared to. He jumped out of nowhere on top of an explosion that he didn't know about.
  • Gin's sword needs to take the force back (same point about Zanpakuto above).
  • You can see Dangai Ichigo not even trying initially (same point about Zanpakuto above). Ap was never equal to dura. Dura is supposed to be at least your AP. And if it's boosting your reiatsu, which has a DIRECT correlation to your dura, doesn't boost your dura, then I don't know.
I'm willing to do a counter CRT in all honesty.
 
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is reatsu quantity = AP energy? nah, prolly not. otherwise, there wouldnt be the need for named attacks, training to hone it, training to use it more effectively etc, cuz then, one could just dish out their reatsu that that would be it. so no. reatsu is likely below one's full AP. think of how u can 'reatsu crush' someone by showing it a lot, while u can kill them by using it on/as a technique. kinda like aizen and normal humans- he could disintegrate them, but he couldnt do anything to ichigo with it even when he was far more powerful, and completely pissed, but the moment he used a named technique, he hurt him (that explosion).
 
Lorenzo.r.2nd said:
is reatsu quantity = AP energy? nah, prolly not. otherwise, there wouldnt be the need for named attacks, training to hone it, training to use it more effectively etc, cuz then, one could just dish out their reatsu that that would be it. so no. reatsu is likely below one's full AP. think of how u can 'reatsu crush' someone by showing it a lot, while u can kill them by using it on/as a technique. kinda like aizen and normal humans- he could disintegrate them, but he couldnt do anything to ichigo with it even when he was far more powerful, and completely pissed, but the moment he used a named technique, he hurt him (that explosion).
Click to expand...
I agree to an extent.
They don't use all of their Reiatsu to attack and dodge, they split it up. The "named attacks, training to hone it, training to use it more effectively etc" is because of Reiryoku, and how some people have stronger Reiryoku. Everybody emits a certain amount of Reiryoku, which turns into Reiatsu (like lava vs magma) and such.
 
KingTempest said:
Orihime is already 5B for her durability. Really not that big of a difference.
Click to expand...
Her dura is only 5B using her shields her dura alone using no shields is bellow that

And what people want is reiatsu = AP and dura

Tatsuki would need to go from 10-A to tier 6
 
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TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
Her dura is only 5B using her shields her dura alone using no shields is bellow that

And what people want is reiatsu = AP and dura
Click to expand...
The shields made out of her Reiatsu which is based off her Reiryoku. In theory she could potentially take 5-B attacks w/out it. And regardless, you're referring to fullbringers. I'm talking about Shinigami and Arrancar and probably Quincy like the post you sent.

The main point is that your max AP should be your minimum dura. If they use Reiatsu to attack and defend, and they know how to use a certain amount for it shown w/ Kenpachi and Aizen, it should count for Dura. If I can use 30,000 to attack, why can't i use it to defend?

If Ichigo's sword cuts a planet in half, the sword needs to take planet force back. If his sword is literally just him, then he has that dura too. Same with every soul reaper, every quincy, and more.

Nobody is advocating for Fullbringers and humans like you are. We're talking about Shinigami. The page you sent was pure Shinigami and Arrancar, not Orihime (a fullbringer) and Tatsuki (a human with eyes in the back of her head). We obviously know Orihime doesn't have 5-A AP. Having a certain dura doesn't mean you have that AP. If AP was exactly = to dura, you would strain after every attack.
 
How can it be made out of her Reiatsu and out of her Reiryoku at the same time...? They are linked, but entirely different things, that's an oxymoron.

Also, if you really need to use "in theory" after god knows how many times Orihime has been near a battle, that extreme lack of examples to back up your point doesn't look pretty.
 
You're right about the first part, I forgot the difference for a minute.

I'm using in theory because Kubo doesn't write down "she has 5-B dura" in every fight.

And my main point was about Shinigami, Arrancar, and Quincies, I could care less about Fullbrings like Orihime who have different rules to their fighting.
 
KingTempest said:
You're right about the first part, I forgot the difference for a minute.

I'm using in theory because Kubo doesn't write down "she has 5-B dura" in every fight.

And my main point was about Shinigami, Arrancar, and Quincies, I could care less about Fullbrings like Orihime who have different rules to their fighting.
Click to expand...
All things use reikyoku so that would apply to all even humans and fullbringers.

Shinigami, quincy and arrancar were explained on the thread above too

Basically what sigur said

"For maybe the 15th time reiatsu isn’t scaled to AP or Durability."
 
> If Ichigo's sword cuts a planet in half, the sword needs to take planet force back. If his sword is literally just him, then he has that dura too. Same with every soul reaper, every quincy, and more.

Obviously people don't have the durability of their weapons though, since they can clash swords with their opponent and the sword is undamaged but if they just let themselves get hit then they will be cut by their opponent.
 
>Obviously people don't have the durability of their weapons though, since they can clash swords with their opponent and the sword is undamaged but if they just let themselves get hit then they will be cut by their opponent.

Because their durability varies with the amount of reiatsu they release. Kenpachi's was such a crazy thing because when Ichigo did it, the reiatsu from Ichigo's sword was less then Kenpachi's unconscious leakage, showing the immense strength gap because Kenpachi wasn't even trying to defend himself.

Shinigami and I assume Arrancar put all their reiatsu in their attacks and weapons instead of their bodys @damage, stated here. They're enhancing their own weapons. It's not like a random swordsman who has a sword that they found in a treasure chest, the swords are literally them and enhanced by them, hence the damage from Bankai correlates to the user.

When Ichigo cuts Yhwach in half, he's taking the force back. When he hit Kenpachi and started to bleed, the same thing happened to Ichigo w/ Yhwach, except his dura was better, astronomically better, compared to back then, so he wasn't in pain.

They take all the force they apply back, or else they would bleed after every sword swing. Them getting hurt means A. The Reiatsu that attacks them is higher than the Reiatsu used to defend, B. They were using less Reiatsu to defend, or C. Caught off guard (could be all of the above).
 
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