ben10(omnitrix) Immeasurable speed downgrade

[Quintessence_PE]

The reason why Immeasurable Speed is given is because the omnitrix was working before the multiverse was created. The fact that this explosion creates time does not mean that the explosion is faster than the time continuum. This is a simple creation of spacetime, and basically the explosion's creation of all spacetime and the multiverse is just a range achievement.
As i said above, since these feats are not immeasurable speed, this reaction speed shouldn't be immeasurable speed and it should be removed.

update:The fact that the Omnitrix is reacting to this explosion, a big bang that created space-time, should not imply immeasurable speed. It does not matter whether this explosion created a hypertimeline or whether it was high-dimensional, because regardless of these dimensions, it represents a feat of creation and cannot be considered as having occurred faster than time. Additionally, there are other aspects of this scene that do not make sense and contribute to its overall incoherence.

Their claim is that an explosion in timeless space that created the entire multiverse would be immeasurable.

So here's what they're saying;

This explosion in timeless space created the entire multiverse and timelines, which means that this explosion can move along all timelines. So the explosion is immeasurable because it created the whole multiverse.


@Deagonx @Mr. Bambu I know, normally users are can't tagging staff but I saw that you two were confused in the OP's case. Don't get me wrong, I only tagged you both to clarify this and "in my opinion" any explosion in a space without time that creates a multiverse should therefore not be immeasurable, that would basically be an assumption, but the decision here is yours.

Agree: @Mr. Bambu @PrinceofPein @Quintessence_PE @Georredannea15 @SweetDao @Huesito88 @Dark_Soul20189 @Apollonir.Scale @Mayonez_king @RigelBR7 @Aolphl @Accelerated_Evolution @Monkey_Dunno @Hypertornado099

Disagree: @Firestorm808 @DarkDragonMedeus @Hellformer @OMNIVERSAL-KING @Reiner04 @Lloydblitzed @TheOrangeGuy09 @ByArrow @Lloydblitzed

Neutral: @Deagonx

 

[Georredannea15]

God has mercy on you, but they never!!!

Anyway, I raised these things in the upgrade revision and it's really good that someone is bringing them to light again. I agree with that.

Merhamet edin efendim

 

[ByArrow]

The immeasurable speed rating comes from the fact that the Omntrix saved Ben even though he was hit by the explosion. It allows him to escape from an attack that has already hit him and that's why it has immeasurable speed.

 

[Georredannea15]

The immeasurable speed rating comes from the fact that the Omntrix saved Ben even though he was hit by the explosion. So it allows him to escape from an attack that has already hit him and that's why it has immeasurable speed.

As i said above, since these feats are not immeasurable speed, this reaction speed shouldn't be immeasurable speed and it should be removed.

If the explosion is not immeasurable, then the reaction speed is not immeasurable. Anyway, I'm gonna go.

 

[Huesito88]

The immeasurable speed rating comes from the fact that the Omntrix saved Ben even though he was hit by the explosion. It allows him to escape from an attack that has already hit him and that's why it has immeasurable speed.

No that was at most support if you even believed in that sequence of events

 

[Quintessence_PE]

The immeasurable speed rating comes from the fact that the Omntrix saved Ben even though he was hit by the explosion. It allows him to escape from an attack that has already hit him and that's why it has immeasurable speed.

As i said above, since these feats are not immeasurable speed, this reaction speed shouldn't be immeasurable speed and it should be removed.

Are you sure you read the theard

 

[ByArrow]

If the explosion is not immeasurable, then the reaction speed is not immeasurable.

If you can dodge a blow that has already hit you, that is immeasurable speed. And the omnitrix saves he from an explosion that has already hit he.

 

[Georredannea15]

If you can dodge a blow that has already hit you, that is immeasurable speed. And the omnitrix saves he from an explosion that has already hit he.

No, it saves him at the last moment.

 

[ByArrow]

No, it saves him at the last moment.

Ben seems to have been hit by the explosion.

 

[SweetDao]

Hard agree with OP.

 

[Georredannea15]

Ben seems to have been hit by the explosion.

Ben's durability isn't up to it anyway. An incoherent comment. I think that's enough

 

[ByArrow]

Ben's durability isn't up to it anyway. An incoherent comment. I think that's enough

Ben's durability is irrelevant. The explosion seems to have already hit Ben.

 

[Huesito88]

I looked at the thread where Omnitrix's immeasurable speed rating came from.

Immesurable reaction speed for Omnitrix's fail-safe proposal

In this scene Omnitrix gave Ben feedback to stop explosion and save him from annihilarg's big bang, but Ben was already struck by big bang So it should be immesurable speed feat "They can dodge an attack that already has been struck"...

vsbattles.com

Omnitrix got an immeasurable speed rating not for the reason the OP said but for the reason I said. The reason in the OP was used as supporting evidence.

Wrong it's the other way around look at the staff votes

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Can't lie, the omnitrix transforming ben after the big bang was stupid reasoning, I brought it up in the original thread as well, and agreed with Reiner on just saying the big bang was immeasurable cause of cosmology, i believe some of the staff agreed for that reason as well.

Anyway can someone get staff cause apparently other verses got immeasurable speed for similar things as well

 

[ByArrow]

I did a quick review of the messages. My bad, the staff agreed for the reason in the OP.

I agree with OP

 

[Georredannea15]

I looked at the thread where Omnitrix's immeasurable speed rating came from.

Immesurable reaction speed for Omnitrix's fail-safe proposal

In this scene Omnitrix gave Ben feedback to stop explosion and save him from annihilarg's big bang, but Ben was already struck by big bang So it should be immesurable speed feat "They can dodge an attack that already has been struck"...

vsbattles.com

Omnitrix got an immeasurable speed rating not for the reason the OP said but for the reason I said. The reason in the OP was used as supporting evidence.

Omnitrix gave Ben feedback to stop explosion and save him from annihilarg's big bang, but Ben was already struck by big bang

There is nothing that specifically states this. It's just an incoherent argument based on an assumption from a 3-second scene. "Ben was impressed, but it protected him in spite of it."

So? If what you're saying is "the omnitrix protected Ben even though it affected him, that makes it immeasurable because it protected him against an attack that was already happenin"... Mehh, that would be a false assumption.

In fact, if we take into account that basically the reaction to this explosion "came after the explosion", we can basically infer that the reaction came later but it doesn't really matter right now.


But if we put it all together, it would be an assumption to say that Ben is "affected by the explosion" from an unclear scene. This is what I actually stated in the previous thread. So the reason why they actually agreed is the reason in the OP. This is something that is very misunderstood, so I wanted to explain it at length

 

[ByArrow]

There is nothing that specifically states this. It's just an incoherent argument based on an assumption from a 3-second scene. "Ben was impressed, but it protected him in spite of it."

So? If what you're saying is "the omnitrix protected Ben even though it affected him, that makes it immeasurable because it protected him against an attack that was already happenin"... Mehh, that would be a false assumption.

In fact, if we take into account that basically the reaction to this explosion "came after the explosion", we can basically infer that the reaction came later but it doesn't really matter right now.


But if we put it all together, it would be an assumption to say that Ben is "affected by the explosion" from an unclear scene. This is what I actually stated in the previous thread. So the reason why they actually agreed is the reason in the OP. This is something that is very misunderstood, so I wanted to explain it at length

I did a quick review of the messages. My bad, the staff agreed for the reason in the OP.

I agree with OP

 

[Georredannea15]

I did a quick review of the messages. My bad, the staff agreed for the reason in the OP.

I agree with OP

I didn't see your comment when I wrote my comment, so don't bully me

 

[Reiner04]

As I've said before, Annihilarrgh bigbang got to reach everywhere in the cosmos so as to create it and so, has to be as faster than time. Filling up an infinite Sized realm, reacting to creation of an infinite distances are speed feats too. Omnitrix attack speed is infinite too for very same reason.

When evaluating speed feats resulting in infinite speed a high amount of scrutiny should be applied. Speed feats of this nature frequently turn out to be Outliers and statements regarding infinity are prone to be Hyperbole. One should consider whether it is more plausible and consistent to assume that the abilities creating infinite distance or zero time were resisted, circumvented or nullified instead, or if Teleportation or similar were employed. Filling or lightning up infinite-sized realms must require substantial amounts of evidence. But if the intent for the infinite-sized realm is clear and repeatedly hammered in multiple times, then there's no reason to assume otherwise and it should be acceptable.

 

[Georredannea15]

As I've said before, Annihilarrgh bigbang got to reach everywhere in the cosmos so as to create it and so, has to be as faster than time. Filling up an infinite Sized realm, reacting to creation of an infinite distances are speed feats too. Omnitrix attack speed is infinite too for very same reason.

Without immeasurable speed, as long as you have the range to cover this distance and volume, this explosion will cover all time. And this explosion only creates time.


We give range to characters who can create a whole space-time continuum, or we give range to characters who can affect a whole space-time continuum, or we give range to characters who can cover this volume. (And also large size)

The fact that an explosion or attack creates a time continuum or affects all of time/multiverse does not make that attack/explosion immeasurably faster, it is just a ranged achievement.

Let me give you an example ; Think of it as the difference between an explosion that destroys an entire village and a bullet that travels a certain time and distance from one house in the village to the next house.

Also, the description of infinite speed that you quoted is basically not a good analogy for immeasurable because in infinite speed there is still a concept of "distance" and "time" but in immeasurable speed there is no such thing

 

[Reiner04]

Without immeasurable speed, as long as you have the range to cover this distance and volume, this explosion will cover all time. And this explosion only creates time.


We give range to characters who can create a whole space-time continuum, or we give range to characters who can create a whole space-time continuum, or we give range to characters who can cover this volume. (And also oversized)

The fact that an explosion or attack creates a time continuum or affects all of time/multiverse does not make that attack/explosion immeasurably faster, it is just a ranged achievement.

Let me give you an example ; Think of it as the difference between an explosion that destroys an entire village and a bullet that travels a certain time and distance from one house in the village to the next house.

Also, the description of infinite speed that you quoted is basically not a good analogy for immeasurable because in infinite speed there is still a concept of "distance" and "time" but in immeasurable speed there is no such thing

Again, reacting to creation of infinite Distance is infinite speed as I quoted above. An explosion reaching every corner of the infinite dimension is infinite speed, Omnitrix has it for same reason. An explosion which expands to infinite is infinite speed.

 

[Georredannea15]

Again, reacting to creation of infinite Distance is infinite speed as I quoted above. An explosion reaching every corner of the infinite dimension is infinite speed, Omnitrix has it for same reason. An explosion which expands to infinite is infinite speed.

The reason for infinite speed is that at infinite speed there is still "the concept of distance and time."


But immeasurable speed has no concept of distance or time and the requirements are very different than infinite speed. That's why I said that comparing the two is a very bad option. At infinite speed it is also possible to get range because range depends on a "distance". The relation of this distance to time is "speed," and the concepts of "distance and time" still exist at infinite speed, but they are meaningless and irrevelant at immeasurable speed.

Also, the description of infinite speed that you quoted is basically not a good analogy for immeasurable because in infinite speed there is still a concept of "distance" and "time" but in immeasurable speed there is no such thing

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I agree.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I agree with Downgrade.

 

[Hellformer]

Disagree
The big bang doesn't just create a single universe but instead an infinite time-stream. There was no time before the explosion as we could see maltruant's powers not being able to work. So the big bang creates space as well the flow of the timelines, a similar reasoning was used earlier for different character and which is why Omnitrix immeasurable reaction speed was accepted. So hard disagree FRA

 

[OMNIVERSAL-KING]

Bruh !!!!!!!
That energy blast was going to travel throughout the hypertimestream (to create it) just by sheer speed and destroy it (it only a mere blast but this fast that it can cover and destroy all of hypertimestream from it's start to end instantly)

Disagree

 

[Hellformer]

Bruh !!!!!!!
That energy blast was going to travel throughout the hypertimestream (to create it) just by sheer speed and destroy it (it only a mere blast but this fast that it can cover and destroy all of hypertimestream from it's start to end instantly)

Disagree

W fr

 

[Georredannea15]

Bruh !!!!!!!
That energy blast was going to travel throughout the hypertimestream (to create it) just by sheer speed and destroy it (it only a mere blast but this fast that it can cover and destroy all of hypertimestream from it's start to end instantly)

Disagree

Without immeasurable speed, as long as you have the range to cover this distance and volume, this explosion will cover all time. And this explosion only creates time.


We give range to characters who can create a whole space-time continuum, or we give range to characters who can affect a whole space-time continuum, or we give range to characters who can cover this volume. (And also large size)

The fact that an explosion or attack creates a time continuum or affects all of time/multiverse does not make that attack/explosion immeasurable speed, it is just a range feat.

Ok? Good.

 

[OMNIVERSAL-KING]

Ok? Good.

Doesn't still cancel the point "it's a mere explosion"
There's a lot of difference between characters and blasts (it's false equivalence) + don't ignore that CN statement (not just time but all past , present and future as well)

 

[Hellformer]

Doesn't still cancel the point "it's a mere explosion"
There's a lot of difference between characters and blasts (it's false equivalence) + don't ignore that CN statement (not just time but all past , present and future as well)

The CN statement literally debunks this thread

 

[Reiner04]

Ok? Good.

An explosion that can reach every corner of multiverse is immeasurable speed. Since it doesn't have any ability of time travel etc. Same as an attack gets infinite speed due to travelling across infinite universe. Many of our pages have immeasurable and infinite attackspeed for same reason.

 

[Hellformer]

An explosion that can reach every corner of multiverse is immeasurable speed. Since it doesn't have any ability of time travel etc. Same as an attack gets infinite speed due to travelling across infinite universe. Many of our pages have immeasurable and infinite attackspeed for same reason.

Real

 

[Mayonez_king]

I agree, Immeasurable speed is really wrong

 

[Georredannea15]

An explosion that can reach every corner of multiverse is immeasurable speed. Since it doesn't have any ability of time travel etc. Same as an attack gets infinite speed due to travelling across infinite universe. Many of our pages have immeasurable and infinite attackspeed for same reason.

How many times do I have to explain that there is no concept of speed or time in unmeasurable speed? It already says so on the page. So stop comparing it with infinite speed because it is a trivial argument. It is only a range feat that the attack creates/affects the entire multiverse

Also, I would like to see immeasurable speed profiles with these requirementsut immeasurable speed has no concept of distance or time and the requirements are very different than infinite speed. That's why I said that comparing the two is a very bad option. At infinite speed it is also possible to get range because range depends on a "distance". The relation of this distance to time is "speed," and the concepts of "distance and time" still exist at infinite speed, but they are meaningless and irrevelant at immeasurable speed.

So, still don't use infinite speed as an example because it's absurd.

 

[Reiner04]

How many times do I have to explain that there is no concept of speed or time in unmeasurable speed? It already says so on the page. So stop comparing it with infinite speed because it is a trivial argument. It is only a range feat that the attack creates/affects the entire multiverse

So, still don't use infinite speed as an example because it's absurd.

I'm saying travelling through time/cosmos with sheer speed is immeasurable speed, same as travelling through infinite Distance is infinite speed. Idk what Distance or time has anything to do here.

 

[Aolphl]

As I specifically stated in the thread Immeasurable, I think that the Immeasurable speed is wrong, so I agree with the OP.

An explosion that can reach every corner of multiverse is immeasurable speed.

According to your logic, every 2-A character that can destroy a multiverse should be Immeasurable, but Immeasurable doesn't work like that.

Doesn't still cancel the point "it's a mere explosion"
There's a lot of difference between characters and blasts (it's false equivalence) + don't ignore that CN statement (not just time but all past , present and future as well)

The CN statement literally debunks this thread

CN's statement literally does not make any sense here.

 

[Georredannea15]

I'm saying travelling through time/cosmos with sheer speed is immeasurable speed, same as travelling through infinite Distance is infinite speed. Idk what Distance or time has anything to do here.

Let me give you an example ; Think of it as the difference between an explosion that destroys an entire village and a bullet that travels a certain time and distance from one house in the village to the next house.

I actually gave a good example of this(for the difference between the two) but I think it was ignored. Anyway, can't we just accept that we have opposite views and wait for the staff members?

 

[Reiner04]

According to your logic, every 2-A character that can destroy a multiverse should be Immeasurable, but Immeasurable doesn't work like that.

If their attack can reach everywhere corner of 2-A structure as in explosion or sort, same as an attack that can reach every corner of infinite universe gets infinite speed, they will get immeasurable/infinite attack speed. It's nothing new. Omnitrix, Alien X, goku, terrasouraus and lots of verses/characters has it.

 

[Hellformer]

According to your logic, every 2-A character that can destroy a multiverse should be Immeasurable, but Immeasurable doesn't work like that.

Nobody is saying Omnitrix has immeasurable reaction speed for destroying a 2-A structure so do not strawman the argument. The Annihilargh explosion creates the infinite hyper time stream i.e. past, present and future of all the trees(in context to what professor paradox mentioned). So this would include covering all the possible timelines and creating the flow of it. Omnitrix reacting faster than the big bang would make it faster than the flow of time which is by default Immeasurable speed.

CN's statement literally does not make any sense here.

Clearly ignoring the evidence

 

[Aolphl]

If their attack can reach everywhere corner of 2-A structure as in explosion or sort, same as an attack that can reach every corner of infinite universe gets infinite speed, they will get immeasurable/infinite attack speed. It's nothing new. Omnitrix, Alien X, goku, terrasouraus and lots of verses/characters has it.

This could have been Infinite, as long as there was enough argument (but as far as I know there is no time in white void, even for this reason Maltrunat's powers did not work there, so again there may be problems with scaling). But this is still not Immeasurable. In order for it to be immeasurable, you need to go into the past-future your pure speed.