• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Multiversal destruction is fun! Lavos vs Kagutsuchi!

Status
Not open for further replies.
PaChi2

PaChi2

VS Battles
Retired
Messages
20,729
Reaction score
3,679
TD Lavos and Kagutsuchi

Who do you think will emerge victorious in this clash of multiversal monsters? The bug? or the silver Mr Golden Clean?

Speed whatever.

They fight somewhere in Florida.

Go! Win by any means.

Kagutsuchi Shin Megami Tensei
800x640 TimeDevourerLavosForm
 
Rip.

A weaker SMT should do it, then.
 
Putting things into perspective, other SMT 2-As that would be a match for TD are a complete joke for Satan, the thing can deal with basically any hax TD might dish out while TD has to endure the thing launching Almighty property attacks which are way higher in the scale of 2-A, and destroying non-existent beings is simple for a being of Satan's caliber as he's like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other 2-As who can erase the White from the entirety of the Expanse.

Now that the thing got upgrades, best/most even SMT match for TD is Kagutsuchi.
 
That's way more even.

Surprisingly, with its current powerset I say TD takes it more often than not.

Kagutsuchi exists across all of space and time but eating all that up is literally what TD does. And while Kagutsuchi being 2-A should also have the ability to destroy beings such as the White, he is nowhere near the level of the ones who would do so way more easily.

And Kagutsuchi's regen as far as I know is the only one in SMT where, if he does get to the point of being eliminated, takes some time for his resurrection (unlike say, a being such as Krishna who still came back even after being destroyed with Godslayer hax nearly instantly. I assume that's because Kagutsuchi has all the worlds stuff going on so returning all that from nothingness would take more time, but this last part is pure speculation).

A significant ammount of their hax cancels each other as well - and now they have comparable regen unlike in the previous matches.

Almighty attacks still will hurt like hell, but I'm thinking Time Devourer mid~high-diffs Kagutsuchi as it currently is by virtue of consuming all the infinite space-time of the Amala Network and destroying Kagutsuchi by leaving a complete void afterwards, much like what happened to it in the TDE of Nocturne - as that was literally the goal of the thing in its home series.
 
Does the location affect the outcome? ovo
 
If they fought in... let's say, an indestructible multiverse? One Lavos cannot eat because... reasons actually he'd get diarrhea, ovo.
 
That kinda equals making Kagutsuchi itself indestructible for all intents and purposes of this match.
 
and... lavos cannot win in any other way?
 
Kagutsuchi exists across the Amala Network.

Unless you destroy the Multiverse, Kagutsuchi does not truly die.

You make the Multiverse Indestructible, you make Kagutsuchi indestructible.
 
I assumed neutral Multiverse from the start, but that's how Kagutsuchi works. Either you destroy the whole Multiverse or the thing doesn't truly die.
 
Yes, indeed. Now hopefully this thread doesn't become me vs Matt. I'll be crossing my fingers.
 
For example, in that one thread I made Lavos didn't have its current Non-Corporeality, Non-Existence nor absolutely any form of Regen whatsoever - while the other one would be necro at this point on top of that.
 
I will debate this but I don't see Lavos winning.

Eh, reading Fate's reply, maybe. But I could argue for Kagutsuchi since he can erase universes from existence on a conceptual level ad shit.

I say Inconclusive.

Metatron stomps, tho. Don't even think TD is in the level of SMt.
 
Matt, if you want to fight me on this, you'll be dead along with Kagutsuchi. ovo

I can say with certainty that I know Kagutsuchi has horrible compatibility with TD. The method of killing it is literally what TD does. Lucifer at the end of Nocturne quite literally says that Time meets her death = Kagutsuchi dies.

He's literally the one and only thing TD beats in SMT (since others are all out of its weight class), but he is.

Snap
 
This quote, specifically. Out of all the demons in the series, Kagutsuchi is the single one that really did go down by virtue of Multiverse - or in Lucifer's own words, Time being gone. TD eats up all of space and time. Leaves a void much like in the end of TDE.

Destroying Kagutsuchi in such a manner works. As you said, TD is definitely not on SMT levels (hence why I insta pointed the Satan stomps above, and yes, Metatron would also stomp). Buuuuuut sadly for Kagutsuchi, he's the stepping stone 95% of the other 2-As on the verse use as the very ground/basis they thread upon.

5timekagu
6kagu
 
Actually, time died because Kagutsuchi died, not the other way around. Kagutsuchi is what sustains time.

Kagutsuchi isn't bound by time no less than lesser beings like the Cardinal Archangels are.
 
Not quite. Kagutsuchi exists across all space and time/alternate universes. It dies, the universe goes along with it, rebirths, a new one comes along. And this is repeated across infinite timelines.

Destroy all of that, you're destroying Kagutsuchi itself. That much is for certain.
 
Plus, if the whole destroying Time was inconsequential, TDE would be no different from any other ending, as in those a new Universe was created with a reason and the cycle continued, as opposed to just destroying Kagutsuchi along with the Multiverse, leaving nothing afterwards - it would be against the very nature of Lucifer's plan of having Demi-Fiend destroy it.
 
There is actually one Kagutsuchi Avatar for each universe. You only kill the real Kagutsuchi in TDE which leads to the Amala collapsing across time.

Kagutsuchi is responsible for the Cycle of Death and Rebirth but it isn't literally the multiverse. It is responsible over it.
 
Kagutsuchi was literally killed in the TDE by virtue of killing one of its avatars then reducing the Multiverse to nothingness afterwards. Whether that was a direct consequence of its death or simply Demi-Fiend sending the Multiverse to hell afterwards is inconsequential.

The fact of the matter is, kill Kagutsuchi without presenting any reason whatsoever to create a new Universe, bust the multiverse, there's no time, no cycle and no Kagutsuchi.

He's the one demon out of the entirety of SMT who does not come back if you destroy that - or at least not within any reasonable ammount of time.

If Kagutsuchi was independent of it, TDE would be literally moot as he, like every single other demon, would come back instantly despite the entire Amala it administers being gone, which is not at all what happens.
 
While, by comparison, people like Metatron are portrayed as so above it, that they instantly come back from nothing (and even duplicate while they're at it, at that).
 
Huh. Almost Forgot this thread.

Gonna bump just so that this match never pops up again.

As things currently stand I think TD Mid-Low Diffs now. Looking over the story of Nocturne again and rereading its profile, only thing Kagutsuchi has going for it here now is Almighty attacks and sadly breaking it to the Disco Ball but attacks bypassing defenses is quite commonplace in Chrono Cross too so that's NOT making up for the gap in hax.
 
Same. But I saw it again and too tired of this match popping up (three times now, though granted, second time was busted because revisions and this one was to avoid stomp) so I'd rather have this concluded this time so we can wrap this up and never hear from it again.
 
Uhh......Good Lord THIS guy is baseline yet he has that many hax? Jesus that's scary.

Looking at Fate's reply, I think I'll go Lavos for her reasons.
 
Actually, the Time Devourer is possibly above baseline because it's immensely stronger than the Dream Devourer who is possibly baseline
 
TD is above Baseline to a degree (too lazy to bring the scalling from the Daemon thread here). Also I think Gargoyle meant Kagutsuchi with the Baseline.
 
"I could legit say TD is above 47 different 2-As up till Serge with the Chrono Cross, but I'll be a sweet little cinnamon bun and go with "DD (possibly baseline 2-A) < Harle < Kid < Linx =< Fate with Frozen Flame <<< Dragon God controlled by TD at endgame <<< TD."

^This one?
 
Yes, this one. Just ignore the 47 part because most of them are around the same level (baseline). I only considered in the scaling the ones who are canonically involved with the main events. So this:

"DD (possibly baseline 2-A) < Harle < Kid < Linx =< Fate with Frozen Flame <<< Dragon God controlled by TD at endgame <<< TD."
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Milly_Rocking_Bandit
  • Locked
Megami Tensei: The 1-A Ratings
Replies
29
Views
7K
Ultima_Reality
Ultima_Reality
Ultima_Reality
  • Locked
Minor Shin Megami Tensei Revisions
2 3 4
Replies
127
Views
15K
Antvasima
Antvasima
Milly_Rocking_Bandit
  • Locked
Megami Tensei - The Expansive, Collective CRT Part II
10 11 12
Replies
454
Views
52K
Antvasima
Antvasima
Milly_Rocking_Bandit
  • Locked
Megami Tensei - The Collective, Expansive CRT
4 5 6
Replies
201
Views
60K
Antvasima
Antvasima
Testarossa002
  • Locked
Keeping Up With The Olympians (2 of ????)
2 3
Replies
113
Views
9K
Testarossa002
Testarossa002
Back
Top