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Superman vs Zero
- Thread starter Laughing_Manson
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Superman has actually resisted time manipulation like time stop before so that won't work. Supermans heat vision out matches the suns heat by a gigantic amount, so unless I get some examples of like near plank heat level resistance from Zero I doubt his heat resistance will help against supermans.
As rep pointed out they are pretty similar in most categories with some exceptions like speed and superman maybe having more resistances. However supermans strength grows higher the closer he is to the sun and in fact the angrier he gets the faster he absorbs solar energy so if the fights gets really intense and it's a all out match, eventually superman will overcome zero.
Also omnidirectional is a very vague description of range. Their needs to be a numerical distance to how wide the radius of his omni direct attacks cus this could range from a couple meters to universal. Information would be useful. Otherwise from my knowledge (albeit not very much) of zeros ranged attacks, I'm going to bet superman has the longer range both wide and long, as he can engulf a planet with his heat vision or shoot past the moon and beyond with a straight beam.
Overall I give superman the win via heat vision,growing stronger/more durable and healing wounds faster the closer he is to the sun or if he's angry. And why not intangiblity is also useful.
As rep pointed out they are pretty similar in most categories with some exceptions like speed and superman maybe having more resistances. However supermans strength grows higher the closer he is to the sun and in fact the angrier he gets the faster he absorbs solar energy so if the fights gets really intense and it's a all out match, eventually superman will overcome zero.
Also omnidirectional is a very vague description of range. Their needs to be a numerical distance to how wide the radius of his omni direct attacks cus this could range from a couple meters to universal. Information would be useful. Otherwise from my knowledge (albeit not very much) of zeros ranged attacks, I'm going to bet superman has the longer range both wide and long, as he can engulf a planet with his heat vision or shoot past the moon and beyond with a straight beam.
Overall I give superman the win via heat vision,growing stronger/more durable and healing wounds faster the closer he is to the sun or if he's angry. And why not intangiblity is also useful.
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Superman's heat vision can open through space-time barriers that resemble the inside of a Black Holes.
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I think what grudge says makes sense. I am voting Superman for his reasoning, though this seems really close.
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Zero and Supes are resistant to a lot of things they both can dish out to each other, but id give it to zero for his various forms of healing and a bit more abilities that can actually damage supes in a way
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Name a few abilities that would hurt superman enough to gain the edge please so we have a proper argument to go by peter otherwise it's difficult to debunk a vague argument.Peter "Quicksilver" Maximoff said:
Healing would be a difficult challenge but nothing superman hasn't already dealt with, how can you argue he won't incinerate zero down with heat vison, not to mention his power continually rises and if he fight drags out into space which will give superman the advantage to fight closer to the sun, how would zero come out on top eventually.
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Does Zero have any defense against phasing? I can't recall him ever using it in the games.
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They're pretty even in a good number of things but Zero has stuff such as Duplication with Sougenmu that can actually give him the edge.
Also pretty sure the Z-saber can hit intangible foes because stuff like the Sigma Virus gets cut by it. Also he would be no stranger to this kind of technique since Sting Chameleon from X1 abuses it and X can actually copy said intangibility, yet Zero is superior to SC and comparable to X anyways.
Sigma in X5 also uses some kind of intangibility.
There's also Cyber Peacock living in Cyber Space I believe and a number of enemies in the series that have abilities similar to that so it really wouldn't be anything new.
Overall I believe Zero takes this.
Also pretty sure the Z-saber can hit intangible foes because stuff like the Sigma Virus gets cut by it. Also he would be no stranger to this kind of technique since Sting Chameleon from X1 abuses it and X can actually copy said intangibility, yet Zero is superior to SC and comparable to X anyways.
Sigma in X5 also uses some kind of intangibility.
There's also Cyber Peacock living in Cyber Space I believe and a number of enemies in the series that have abilities similar to that so it really wouldn't be anything new.
Overall I believe Zero takes this.
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- Ninja'd by Reppu on Cyber Peacock.
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Superman flies up, destroys the planet. The fight takes place in space, Zero is not as well as a fighter in space. Superman goes to the Sun and charges up some big attack, and shoots it right at Zero and Zero doesn't know what to do. End of battle.
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They're pretty even in a good number of things but Zero has stuff such as Duplication with Sougenmu that can actually give him the edge.
Fighting two people at once in similar strength is nothing new to superman. However what I'm asking is what does Zero have two permanently put down superman quickly. As far as stamina goes superman has the advantage as long as he had the yellow sun he will never run out of energy. Not to mention his range is still I believe superior to zeros as it can hit from very far distances. Unless zero has something to put down superman down for good, superman would still win in the long run.
Fighting two people at once in similar strength is nothing new to superman. However what I'm asking is what does Zero have two permanently put down superman quickly. As far as stamina goes superman has the advantage as long as he had the yellow sun he will never run out of energy. Not to mention his range is still I believe superior to zeros as it can hit from very far distances. Unless zero has something to put down superman down for good, superman would still win in the long run.
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"Fighting two people at once in similar strength is nothing new to superman"
And your point is...?
The match here is close enough with him fighting one Zero. It would still be twice the enemy he is facing. Also there really isn't anything on Supes profile saying he'll outright keep lolnoping Time Stop as well so really, I'd ask for scans on that whole "Immune to time stop".
Also if people bring up the "Supes blows up the planet, flies into the sun card", I'll bring up that at the end of X8 they kinda busted Lumine along with his pocket dimension and star, so yeah.
Also HOW does Superman exceed Zero in stamina when his stamina is essentially limitless in both keys? Like what?
And your point is...?
The match here is close enough with him fighting one Zero. It would still be twice the enemy he is facing. Also there really isn't anything on Supes profile saying he'll outright keep lolnoping Time Stop as well so really, I'd ask for scans on that whole "Immune to time stop".
Also if people bring up the "Supes blows up the planet, flies into the sun card", I'll bring up that at the end of X8 they kinda busted Lumine along with his pocket dimension and star, so yeah.
Also HOW does Superman exceed Zero in stamina when his stamina is essentially limitless in both keys? Like what?
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Close match but Supes gets defeated by numbers and outlasted in the take via healing. That's not even factoring the Time Stuff, since most of the rest are moot or cancel each other out.
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@Fate So if Zero Can survive in space, he takes this due to ripping apart superman's SOUL
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And your point is...? My point is that two zeros won't be giving him enough of an edge since superman had fought foes equal to him 2v1 and even came out on top.
The match here is close enough with him fighting one Zero. It would still be twice the enemy he is facing. Also there really isn't anything on Supes profile saying he'll outright keep lolnoping Time Stop as well so really, I'd ask for scans on that whole "Immune to time stop".
[here is the scans of him] [moving in time stop] however I could also argue what makes you think Zero will be spamming time stop, doesn't sound like his character.
Also if people bring up the "Supes blows up the planet, flies into the sun card", I'll bring up that at the end of X8 they kinda busted Lumine along with his pocket dimension and star, so yeah. that argument is meaningless as their are literally billions of stars in the universe for superman to fly towards, hell I could argue superman could find himself a blue star but that's a bit out of character, point being theirs plenty of stars for superman to get his hands on.
Also HOW does Superman exceed Zero in stamina when his stamina is essentially limitless in both keys? Like what? zero gets tired after a period of time as stated on his profile the more damage he recieves, meanwhile superman heals and gains back stamina the more sunlight he absorbs, if he gets angry, he begins to absorb sunlight even faster and you know the rest at this point.so yah superman had the edge here in stamina even if th are classified as limitless.
The match here is close enough with him fighting one Zero. It would still be twice the enemy he is facing. Also there really isn't anything on Supes profile saying he'll outright keep lolnoping Time Stop as well so really, I'd ask for scans on that whole "Immune to time stop".
[here is the scans of him] [moving in time stop] however I could also argue what makes you think Zero will be spamming time stop, doesn't sound like his character.
Also if people bring up the "Supes blows up the planet, flies into the sun card", I'll bring up that at the end of X8 they kinda busted Lumine along with his pocket dimension and star, so yeah. that argument is meaningless as their are literally billions of stars in the universe for superman to fly towards, hell I could argue superman could find himself a blue star but that's a bit out of character, point being theirs plenty of stars for superman to get his hands on.
Also HOW does Superman exceed Zero in stamina when his stamina is essentially limitless in both keys? Like what? zero gets tired after a period of time as stated on his profile the more damage he recieves, meanwhile superman heals and gains back stamina the more sunlight he absorbs, if he gets angry, he begins to absorb sunlight even faster and you know the rest at this point.so yah superman had the edge here in stamina even if th are classified as limitless.
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I've got a great idea, why don't we downgrade both of their speeds to Subsonic to make this more of a fair fight...
anyone...
anyone...
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Out of curiosity, is there a scan of Superman resisting time manipulation post crisis? I just find it odd that something like that isn't listed on his page.Grudgeman1706 said:
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but we need to change both of their speeds from a really fast speed, to a really low speedCropfist said:
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@Grudge 1. What I'm saying is that point doesn't make sense because you're saying "He has come out on top against two similarly powerful opponents" which REALLY does not ammount to anything here because said opponents do not have the same powerset and statistics close to Zero or as close as we have them here. It's like you're trying to scale Zero on this match to totally unrelated characters. Furthermore, Sougenmu Copies are intangible themselves while being able to hit the enemy, so yeah.
2. Your scan just proved my point. Superman needed A LOT of effort to move in the stopped time. Zero wouldn't be dumb enough like that character to stay there looking, talking and kindly waiting for Supes to break out of Dark Hold whenever he used it.
3. Because Zero, having teleportation and speed equalized, will totally allow Superman to fly wherever he wants to without doing anything about it.
4. Zero has healing and stamina is limitless. Supes will be taking way more damage due to duplication, having to deal with Dark Hold which WILL hinder him as shown in your scan AND on top of that when Zero himself gets damaged he can heal himself to top condition via sub-tank.
2. Your scan just proved my point. Superman needed A LOT of effort to move in the stopped time. Zero wouldn't be dumb enough like that character to stay there looking, talking and kindly waiting for Supes to break out of Dark Hold whenever he used it.
3. Because Zero, having teleportation and speed equalized, will totally allow Superman to fly wherever he wants to without doing anything about it.
4. Zero has healing and stamina is limitless. Supes will be taking way more damage due to duplication, having to deal with Dark Hold which WILL hinder him as shown in your scan AND on top of that when Zero himself gets damaged he can heal himself to top condition via sub-tank.
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Also @Crop Resistance does not equal Immunity.
He gets enough of a saber combo to the face, his Soul is done anyways.
He gets enough of a saber combo to the face, his Soul is done anyways.
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@Laughing Mountain I didn't write supermans page but it's common for feats of superman to be either lost or never brought up. He's got too many issues to find every last sub ability and resistance he has.
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" zero gets tired after a period of time as stated on his profile the more damage he recieves"
Where?
He fought mavericks for a year before said "tiring/slowed down due to continous damage". That's what I've seen in his profile.
Edit: *For a year. Got a little mixed with the thousand.
Where?
He fought mavericks for a year before said "tiring/slowed down due to continous damage". That's what I've seen in his profile.
Edit: *For a year. Got a little mixed with the thousand.
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Superman has a feat of fighting for 1000+ years in Vallhala.
Also, what's stopping Superman from firing super-precise heat vision to destroy Zero's circuits?
Also, what's stopping Superman from firing super-precise heat vision to destroy Zero's circuits?
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Dark Hold.
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Guys, I think we are missing the victory card, Zero looks for Kyptonite, and he uses his copy chip to have the Saber, then He is about to hit Superman.
I really don't know if this is a joke post, but If Batman can win, I don't see reason why Zero can't.
I really don't know if this is a joke post, but If Batman can win, I don't see reason why Zero can't.
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Also my point on stamina is not that Zero outlasts Superman on that. Just that he doesn't get tired. And this fight definitely won't last for a year, much less a thousand.
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@Grudge 1. What I'm saying is that point doesn't make sense because you're saying "He has come out on top against two similarly powerful opponents" which REALLY does not ammount to anything here because said opponents do not have the same powerset and statistics close to Zero or as close as we have them here. It's like you're trying to scale Zero on this match to totally unrelated characters. Furthermore, Sougenmu Copies are intangible themselves while being able to hit the enemy, so yeah.
Firstly my example was emphasizing that you are ignoring the fact superman is tactical enough to keep his distance while fighting this character. Also the Sougenmu isn't a very versatile clone, all it does is hit in the same place after zero hits so your argument that it will give superman the edge isn't good enough for me to agree it gives zero the victory. Plus the clone has a time limit doesn't it? So not long until it's gone and it will be 1v1 again.
2. Your scan just proved my point. Superman needed A LOT of effort to move in the stopped time. Zero wouldn't be dumb enough like that character to stay there looking, talking and kindly waiting for Supes to break out of Dark Hold whenever he used it.
This was supermans first experience with stop time, when I read the issue and some others he doesn't struggle like he did before. Also again prove to me with your own scans zero spams dark hold, as gameplay anyone can spam anymove.
Because Zero, having teleportation and speed equalized, will totally allow Superman to fly wherever he wants to without doing anything about it.
Yah no, theirs countless scenarios where superman can get himself to a sun. Zero has no idea about supermans powers so it wouldn't be likely zero would stop superman from getting closer to the sun or in another scanrio superman grappling zero and fly towards the sun. When did speed equalize mean characters can't reach places they normally go to in a short amount of time, all it just means superman can win via blitzing.
4. Zero has healing and stamina is limitless. Supes will be taking way more damage due to duplication, having to deal with Dark Hold which WILL hinder him as shown in your scan AND on top of that when Zero himself gets damaged he can heal himself to top condition via sub-tank.
Again I just explained if he is damaged his stamina gets lower as it even stated he gets tired if he's damaged for a prolong period of time. How many ones can he use sun tank btw, die sir rehire him to obtain a certain item to refill?.
Also what's preventing superman from also ending the fight via lobotomizing his brain from superman looking directly at zeros eyes and heat vison focusing through his pupils, the process is practically instantaneous and it's not like it would be difficult for superman to grab onto zero long enough to look into his eyes.
Firstly my example was emphasizing that you are ignoring the fact superman is tactical enough to keep his distance while fighting this character. Also the Sougenmu isn't a very versatile clone, all it does is hit in the same place after zero hits so your argument that it will give superman the edge isn't good enough for me to agree it gives zero the victory. Plus the clone has a time limit doesn't it? So not long until it's gone and it will be 1v1 again.
2. Your scan just proved my point. Superman needed A LOT of effort to move in the stopped time. Zero wouldn't be dumb enough like that character to stay there looking, talking and kindly waiting for Supes to break out of Dark Hold whenever he used it.
This was supermans first experience with stop time, when I read the issue and some others he doesn't struggle like he did before. Also again prove to me with your own scans zero spams dark hold, as gameplay anyone can spam anymove.
Because Zero, having teleportation and speed equalized, will totally allow Superman to fly wherever he wants to without doing anything about it.
Yah no, theirs countless scenarios where superman can get himself to a sun. Zero has no idea about supermans powers so it wouldn't be likely zero would stop superman from getting closer to the sun or in another scanrio superman grappling zero and fly towards the sun. When did speed equalize mean characters can't reach places they normally go to in a short amount of time, all it just means superman can win via blitzing.
4. Zero has healing and stamina is limitless. Supes will be taking way more damage due to duplication, having to deal with Dark Hold which WILL hinder him as shown in your scan AND on top of that when Zero himself gets damaged he can heal himself to top condition via sub-tank.
Again I just explained if he is damaged his stamina gets lower as it even stated he gets tired if he's damaged for a prolong period of time. How many ones can he use sun tank btw, die sir rehire him to obtain a certain item to refill?.
Also what's preventing superman from also ending the fight via lobotomizing his brain from superman looking directly at zeros eyes and heat vison focusing through his pupils, the process is practically instantaneous and it's not like it would be difficult for superman to grab onto zero long enough to look into his eyes.
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That's so beyond unlikely it's not even funny. You do realize kryptonite can only be found in kryptons star system which zero has no way of knowin where it is. Only certain people on earth have it which zero doesn't again know who owns.Megamangohan said:
Pls do not use batman as an example, I could debunk to you every superman vs batman fight that sever been issued, plus batman has enourmous prep while zero doesn't.
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1. Game mechanics says hi. When X uses Soul Body at the end of their fight in X5, X himself was incapacitated but the Soul Body moved on its own despite X himself being unable to do anything anymore, and attacked Zero - vice-versa if you're playing as X . Also when the copy disappears it can always be used again.
2. Scans on that one "moving with no difficulty in stopped time". As for Zero spamming Dark Hold, did I ever say he would spam it? I'm saying that Zero is not dumb enough nor goes giving chances to his opponents just because. And Dark Hold being basically the most sure-fire way to finish of foes who can't deal with it, why would HE NOT use it is the more obvious question.
3. Zero can resist the heat of the sun. Grappling him and going to the sun would probably work against Superman because again, Sougenmu. Though he probably can't survive some good heat vision attacks if they connect. And my point is not that Supes can't fly somewhere, just that Zero has MFTL+ teleportation to keep up with that. Since speed is equalized anyways, WHY would he let Supes go who knows where and wait? They legit teleport to where their enemies are at all the time in Megaman X. That's the most basic thing in the games.
4. Sub-tank has a limit of 4, since this is X era Zero. I'm pretty sure in a close match like this, it would be over before Zero gets to near death state FIVE TIMES, so stamina is a non-factor. Again, all this lobotomizing is taking into account that Zero would kindly wait for Supes to do his thing without doing anything about it. Same reactions. Good enough powerset to counter. People still assume that he will kindly wait to get destroyed.
I'm not saying Supes has no means of winning. I said myself that the match is close. As I see it, Zero wins. If you think supes actually has the edge and advantages, sure, vote Supes. If he had no way of winning whatsoever this would be a stomp after all.
2. Scans on that one "moving with no difficulty in stopped time". As for Zero spamming Dark Hold, did I ever say he would spam it? I'm saying that Zero is not dumb enough nor goes giving chances to his opponents just because. And Dark Hold being basically the most sure-fire way to finish of foes who can't deal with it, why would HE NOT use it is the more obvious question.
3. Zero can resist the heat of the sun. Grappling him and going to the sun would probably work against Superman because again, Sougenmu. Though he probably can't survive some good heat vision attacks if they connect. And my point is not that Supes can't fly somewhere, just that Zero has MFTL+ teleportation to keep up with that. Since speed is equalized anyways, WHY would he let Supes go who knows where and wait? They legit teleport to where their enemies are at all the time in Megaman X. That's the most basic thing in the games.
4. Sub-tank has a limit of 4, since this is X era Zero. I'm pretty sure in a close match like this, it would be over before Zero gets to near death state FIVE TIMES, so stamina is a non-factor. Again, all this lobotomizing is taking into account that Zero would kindly wait for Supes to do his thing without doing anything about it. Same reactions. Good enough powerset to counter. People still assume that he will kindly wait to get destroyed.
I'm not saying Supes has no means of winning. I said myself that the match is close. As I see it, Zero wins. If you think supes actually has the edge and advantages, sure, vote Supes. If he had no way of winning whatsoever this would be a stomp after all.
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Superman wouldn't even have to labotomize. He could use xray and microscopic vision, given his experience fighting Robots and Cyborgs (not to mention being very familiar with advanced technology) he could probably deduce important components, and vaporize the parts throughout the course of the fight. Zero would be taking damage while trying to fight and Zero wouldn't even know until after something stopped functioning properly. Even then, he might not even be able to determine how Superman did it, or come up with a way to stop him once he did.
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Can Zero resist heat vision at the sub-atomic level? Cuz that's the major point of contention for me.
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@PostmodernD Aaaand more scalling using totally unrelated robots who probably don't compare to Zero coupled with some off the charts level of assumptions. Huh, who would know that Supes also gets some wank. The more I know.
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