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Kenshiro vs Doflamingo

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Well, Kenshiro has regenartion, I also think his precognition is more constant than Doflmaingo's and in close combat he will overpower Doflamingo easily,than they both have clones for distraction and possibly fight... Doflamingo has range and inside of his birdcage a limited flying so, in genral they are both really good chances so I think i will go with inconclusive for now since Doflamingo would lose if he engaged Kenshiro in close combat,but with having similar range adavtange and possibilty of limited flying he could keep himself distant or at least get himself quite of advantage thou again I don't think Kenshiro would let him runaway that easily and knowing Doffy he will go into close combat until he realises the danger...

So, yeah inconclusive for now I might modify my vote if anything else comes up...
 
Blitzs yeah but wouldn't be able to hurt Ken with his ap since Ken is large Island which is way higher then island. His haxes would be the only thing that could hurt Ken.
 
Again, both have potential to one-shot eachother.

Kenshiro has the hax, Doflamingo has the range and superior AP.

Doflamingo has a strong environmental advantage due to where they are fighting without his awakening, as he can utilize his threads in a much more versatile manner within a city.

The major thing to look out for is Muso Tensei, despite Kenshiro's other abilities ("I've already killed you >:|") having some threatening attributes. But the vast majority of these are at melee range, which Doflamingo does not have to fight at. Doflamingo is generally an evasive and manipulative fighter, letting his opponents come to him and not the other way around (unless you have "D." in your name--in that case, you've triggered Doflamingo).

I'm still unaware of limitations on Kenshiro's Muso Tensei and his actual intelligence, but even if he can land a blow on Doflamingo, unless he gets a head-shot, Doflamingo can survive while utilizing his threads to repair essential parts of his body (entire organs and muscles, if needed).

If Kenshiro leaves his intangible state, he is in great danger due to Doflamingo's Awakening, and Parasito. He'd risk being caught by threads and if he is struck by a single one, he'd be as good as dead, if not lose an arm.

The starting range isn't listed, so i'd assume them to be 10 meters apart, which leads me to believe Doflamingo to take the advantage with his Black Knight and longer-ranged physical strikes enhanced by his threads.

If Doflamingo engaged aggressively, he'd likely lose relatively quickly, but if he shows any sign of caution and uses trickery to put Kenshiro on his toes, he'd win in the long-run. The Black Knight would give Kenshiro reason to fight seriously and give Doflamingo an idea on Kenshiro's abilities and decide to fight at a distance.

Even if he charges in full throttle, Kenbushoku haki would give him a warning should he be too reckless, allowing him to realize the danger he is charging into. Whether or not he can react fast enough to evade is up for debate.

I see Doflamingo winning 6/10 High difficulty. But that's solely because Kenshiro's page lacks information on his actual intelligence... "Martial Arts master" is not exactly helpful in determining how smart he is in battle.
 
Here's what Grudgeman1706 said:

"Oh Boi here we go, if I'm going to debate with Kenshiro again I'll gladly win it against doffy.

Sorry cin not gunnna happen like last time, before doffy had the potential to one shot but now the gap has closed and Ken has 100+ ways to finish the fight.

For starters u assume kens moveset is almost strictly melee. That is completely false. Yes his MAIN hokuto shinken style is mostly melee combat oriented. But his other learned styles like nanto seiken or hokuto ryu Ken can go hit pretty(maybe not as far as doffys but you get my point.)

Also another thing to point out is what is stopping Ken from just casually slicing doffy a threads into 1000 of pieces. With nanto seiken he could quite easily slice any thread like projectiles coming at him.

Also please don't exaggerate doflamingo regen, yes he can sew up organs like his stomach but u do realize in the manga he wasn't actually healed from it(his regen works just like guts berserk armor in the sense it gold him together not heal.) Also he ain't going to be healing if he's hit at all with nanto sei Ken, as it literally negates regen for beings at low mid level, so doffys mid low regen won't be healing for quite a long time.

But that won't matter because really in this fight Ken only really needs to touch doffy once to end it all. QuiteLiterally Ken has over 700 ways to completely make doffy explode. And it's impossible for him to come back.

Okay I'm going to have explain this to you once more. Kens museo tensei has NO define limit. In the sense it's like haki, meaning it always there and doesn't go away. Also in this fight doffy cannot hit Ken within museo tensei at all. It is nothing like logia meaning it doesn't move around people's atoms or make it difficult to hit because they come a literal element.

Busoshoku haki will not be able to bypass kenshiros durability at all, he's literally become one with nothingness, or in simple term a void. So unless doffy has any strings that can hit nothingness he's getting erased from existence here. (Also really a headshot to kill him, come on man, doffy has midlow regen.)

Also you say doffy has the superior AP here, but since you probably don't know but Ken has ways to amp up how strength without the use of his full power thanks to learning a new pressure point from Amiba.

Thread:555878 here read from this so 2x his normal strength means kens gunna have either the AP advantage or doffy has no AP advantage(I've tried to look for doffys specific AP but your scaling kept me going in a circle between luffy and fujitora. Unless his AP comes from fierce tiger which resulted in 1 gigaton. Than Ken now has the AP advantage.)

Also you say doffy won't let Ken get close The that easily. But I've seen plenty of times where people like Sanji have got up and close with doffy. And when that happens boom doffy explodes.

Also flight won't be a problem. Banks to kuroyasha and kaioh, Ken can give himself pseudo flight as well due to watching them in battle. Also he was capable of floating in the air for a small period of time before but you get my point. He can fight in the air with doffy if needed.

So to summarize this. Ken wins this fight with mid to low difficulty 8-9/10 via better precog,way better hax, abilities to cancel out doffys hax like https://gyazo.com/f41c9fd09731daf68acb060b9412bea5 erasing his presence which nullifies doflamingos precog, slicing doffys threads via nanto seiken or vaporize them on a cellular level with gento ko Ken, is way more skilled than doffy at fighting. Ken can use doffys arrogant and nonchalant attitude to

His advantage to get up and close to him. And thanks to a certain pressure point he can make himself stronger than doffy so AP Advantage.

And about intelligence. Idk if Kenshiros page describes it well but Ken is a genius in many aspects. Particularly in fighting where he can memorize a person fighting style just by looking at them, create ways to counter it and finish them. Obviously he can't copy doffys thread fighting style, but he will learn how he fights with it. So intellect in this fight won't be a problem for Ken"
 
If there are no limits to such abilities, and it is going to be accepted that way, then I change my vote. Kenshiro wins
 
As things stand, I give it to Kenshiro. While I personally believe that Haki could possibly bypass Musou Tensei, it hasn't been shown or proven and is therefore just a theory. Kenshiro wins with speed equalized.
 
Kenshiro is a little bit too haxed for Doflamingo to handle isn't he? It's not exactly fair since Doflamingo has no hax to compensate.
 
I agree with Scarlet especially if busoshoku haki is not capable of bypassing Muso Tensei. This fight removes all of the possibilities of Doflamingo actually winning since he can neither hit, nor defend against his opponent. As a result, this is a mismatch.
 
Its not only the fact that he cant hit Kenshiro. Its more like a hit from Kenshiro and Doflamingo blows up internally.
 
force verse equalization between that and Haki I guess. It's what is done with Logia types in all Vs debates
 
RoyGundam said:
force verse equalization between that and Haki I guess. It's what is done with Logia types in all Vs debates
Click to expand...
Logia and Museo tensei arent the same thing, logia is simply the purest form of a natural element. Like fire or mud or ice etc. Haki just simply allows any user to make a logia user solid to damage the devil fruit user.

Museo tensei is a form made up of nothingness, it cannot be hit by either physical attacks nor spiritual/energy attacks. Only another attack composed of nothingness aka a void attack can nullify the ability.
 
Doesn't matter. Standard battle assumptions make Logia types tangible via verse equalization. There is no reason to force Haki to be absolutely useless against Muso Tensei.

"Museo tensei is a form made up of nothingness, it cannot be hit by either physical attacks nor spiritual/energy attacks. Only another attack composed of nothingness aka a void attack can nullify the ability." - sounds like NLF
 
RoyGundam said:
Doesn't matter. Standard battle assumptions make Logia types tangible via verse equalization. There is no reason to force Haki to be absolutely useless against Muso Tensei.

"Museo tensei is a form made up of nothingness, it cannot be hit by either physical attacks nor spiritual/energy attacks. Only another attack composed of nothingness aka a void attack can nullify the ability." - sounds like NLF
Click to expand...
One no

Second it's not NLF, tons of characters have special abilities that can only be nullified or hit when certain conditions are met, i.e. Acellerators vector shields, yhwachs almighty etc etc.

Kens Museo tensei just works like that, In The manga, only another user of Museo tensei was able to hit and nullify him. It cancels it out. Basically if you have an attack with the same property of his Museo tensei aka void/nothingness or you have. Strong power nullification powers, you can nullify his intangibilty. Other than that if you don't fit the requirement than you can hit him, and that includes Haki.
 
Hence why this fight is essentially a stomp if Muso Tensei is not removed, and the thread should be closed :D. This is suggesting Doflamingo has absolutely no way to beat Kenshiro, and thus the fight is pointless since Kenshiro is immune to anything Doflamingo can apply cus wanko tensei.
 
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