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Part 1 Naruto Revision (3rd conversation)

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Here is the second part of the Naruto revision. The previous thread can be found here.

Contents
Continue this thread

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/4179342#498

Things to discuss

  • Sasuke's Fireball jutsu (Vap or Pulv)
  • Character AP Scaling
  • Haku's new speed feat
  • Scaling One Tailed Naruto and CM2 Sasuke to their Rasengan/Chidori clash
  • Key Revision
  • Part One Multipliers
  • Calcs to be used
For now, I think thats all that needs to be discussed.

Sasuke's Fireball
So this is a big topic to discuss from the last thread. The main point is whether we should use Vaporization or Pulverization for Sasuke's feat from chapter 7.

Character AP Scaling
I made a Sandbox for the scaling of all of the characters from part 1. We should talk about how accurate this is and if anything needs to be changed. One thing I would appreciate some help with Choji's profile. There is a feat linked, but for some reason i can't access it.

Haku's Speed Feat
Haku has an impressive speed feat that gives MHS+ results. We can talk about how accurate the feat is and who it would scale to. I don't believe this would be an outlier which can be discussed in the thread.

Scaling One Tailed Naruto and CM2 Sasuke to their Rasengan/Chidori clash
At the end of Part one, Naruto and Sasuke have their Chidori and Rasengan clash. I believe they should scale to it since they were in the center of the explosion.

Key Revision
There was some talk about how to orginize the keys for some characters in part one. This is how i think they should look:

Key: Land of Waves/Chuunin Exam Preliminaries | Chuunin Exams/Konoha Crush | Sasuke Retrieval.

Part One Multipliers
So there are a bunch of multipliers from Part One. We have The Eight Gate Multipliers, CM (already being used), and Choji's Butterfly Mode. I think we should talk about how to implement these, if we even should.

Calcs to be used
These are all the current calcs for Part One that will be used for scaling.

 
I think it's important to note that Naruto himself is stronger than he was in the forest of death, and these characters are stomping him with very little difficulty. It's not a huge deal, but I don't think it's all that unreasonable to upscale Kimimaro and Sasuke to 7-C since the difference is so minuscule.
 
I don't think the upscaling is necessary. The difference will always be small in the lower tiers.
 
Just let Sasuke and Kimimaro upscale. The difference is only 1.7x, and Kimimaro was one-shotting Naruto's shadow clones, which Naruto himself said; "Man, is this guy strong... one blow, against all those shadow doppelgängers..." And as his AP description says; he broke out of Gaara's sand with "some effort." That should still be 7-C.

And as for Sasuke, he basically one-shot Naruto twice, and he was casual while he did it. Putting him and Kimimaro at 'At least Low 7-C+' when they one-shot the Low 7-C+ and fight 7-Cs is just being overly nitpicky for no real reason.
 
> he broke out of Gaara's sand with "some effort." That should still be 7-C

That was after he activated his Curse Seal IIRC.

I think it would be more accurate if he and Sasuke were left as At least Low 7-C+.
 
But Sasuke one-shot the real Naruto, who should also be considerably stronger than his Forest of death self. So these guys can casually overwhelm Naruto who's stronger than his Forest of death self who's already really close to 7-C. The gap would actually be less than 1.7x, and we know that you can't genuinely AP stomp someone without being 7x above their AP. Now I'm not saying Kimimaro and Sasuke are 7x above Naruto, but they're definitely above 1.7x imo.
 
That needs to be changed from his description then. They should still be 7-C considering that they one-shot the Low 7-C+. If they had just stomped him, then I could go with 'At least Low 7-C+,' but they one-shot him (and Sasuke did it casually at that). That should be more than enough to cover a 1.7x difference.
 
I don't like upscaling because of how speculative it is, especially when that next figure is being used as the figure for a multiplier to apply to.

Why only a 1.7x increase? Why not increase his AP by 1.8x, or 1.9x? Or 2x? Or 3x? Why is it so important that he be put in the next tier as opposed to just "At least Low 7-C+"?
 
Because there is clearly a massive difference between Kyuubi chakra Naruto and Kimimaro/Sasuke if they can take him out in one shot, and do it casually. It is not that speculative to say people that can one-shot Naruto are 1.7x stronger than him, at least. Especially when the wiki itself considers 7x to be the difference between a one-shot.

Like I said, leaving them at 'At least Low 7-C+' is just overly nitpicky, especially when characters upscale from a + rating for doing much less than one-shotting.
 
Nitpicky perhaps, but not overly or needlessly nitpicky. I think it would be more accurate for the characters especially since Kimimaro was just one-shotting clones.
 
Clones that are relative to the real thing, yes. Even if you say the clones were slightly weaker than Naruto himself, Kimimaro was still casually putting them down with a single shot. Hell, he took out five in one swing. And Sasuke, while casual, one-shot the real Naruto twice, so...
 
Clones have never been THAT much weaker than the original, and have been consistently shown to be comparable in terms of AP so Durability shouldn't be that far behind. Plus Kimimaro was extremely casual about one-shotting them like Tracer mentioned. Not to mention that Sasuke one-shot the original as well.

Also I'd like to point out that Kimimaro did this while essentially on his deathbed. The man was pretty much in the same boat as Itachi, and yet he still One-shot Naruto and contended with Gaara and Lee.
 
> Sorry but this thread above is also a bit important since if it's true that Kimimaro could casually mess with some that's Low 7C then we are allowed to upscale.

My problem is that it is too arbitrary. Why upscale to just the baseline for the next tier? Why not upscale even higher?

There are no defined rules anywhere on the site for upscaling, and by how much upscaling should be done.
 
Because that's not how upscaling works... You go to the baseline of the next tier, that's it. That's how it's always done.
 
It might be necessary because at this point there really needs to be defined rules on this.
 
When has upscaling from a + rating ever made someone go above baseline, because this is news to me.
 
Damage3245 said:
It might be necessary because at this point there really needs to be defined rules on this.
Click to expand...
I would certainly like defined rules for upscaling.
 
By the way, part of Kimimaro's base form's AP description is that he could easily restrain Jügo. And guess what tier Jügo is? 7-C.
 
@LordTracer; that is Jugo in Part 1, not Shippuden. Seeing as other characters can get stronger in a 2 year timeframe, it's not unlikely that Jugo could as well.

Do you remember if it was ever stated that he could do it in base?
 
I can't even find the statement about him and Jugo, to be honest. Nevertheless, Kimimaro should still be 7-C. And based on the upscaling thread you made, most people are agreeing that there's enough of a difference to upscale him.
 
@LordTracer; most staff from what I can see don't agree with it being enough to upscale.

Upscaling should be done only when absolutely necessary.
 
Schnee One and Ogbungball both seem to agree with the idea of upscaling to the next tier, the former saying that gap of less than 2x is fine.
 
AKM didn't even comment about the Naruto issue. There is no "''most staff from what I can see don't agree with it being enough to upscale''" argument to use.
 
@LordTracer; it was mentioned by AKM Sama that a gap of 1.5x or higher was rejected on the previous thread related to this.
 
Stop lying. The previous thread was about the + sign, only that. Nothing about upscaling Tiers
 
Wrath Of Itachi said:
Jugo doesn't have a 7-C feat anymore, it's been downgraded to 8-A+.
Click to expand...
No, the pixel measurement in my calculation is the most accurate, who decides that?

and I decide it myself

He measured the size from craters that could not be seen, but I measured the size of the clearly hole.
 
I am myself You are you said:
You should trust my calculations, and you should wait for multiple checks or evaluations from many calculations number.
Click to expand...
It's not that i don't trust your calc, it's just that i trust Alex more.
 
Why trust your calculations when almost all your calcs for Naruto were wrong and recalced?
 
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