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Shouldn't Darth Vader have 4-B Durability?

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Vader being 7 tiers below Sidious is still one of the most ridiculous things on the wiki.

I agree that he should somewhat scale to Sidious.
 
He still survived for several minutes, and the difference between 5-B and 4-B is 6111.5 x 454.53 x 18.14 x 5.59 x 715.59, if that's how much weaker Darth was, then he would have been evaporated in the first nanosecond

he should at least have large star level durability
 
Vader isn't tier 4. This has been discussed so many times that there's literally a rule about it. I'm not about to have this argument again. Vader scaling to Sidious is an outlier. Period.
 
The Wright Way said:
Vader isn't tier 4. This has been discussed so many times that there's literally a rule about it. I'm not about to have this argument again. Vader scaling to Sidious is an outlier. Period.
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Then it shouldn't be in his profile
 
If it's been brought up so many times that's arguably evidence that there's merit to it.

The man has like 4 4B feats, people have been upgraded with less.
 
It's also evidence that the argument has been refuted constantly and people are sick of hearing about it.
 
The Wright Way said:
It's also evidence that the argument has been refuted constantly and people are sick of hearing about it.
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All arguments against that I can recall are that he is much weaker than Sidious but you can be much weaker than Sidious and still be 4B, Sids is way above baseline.
 
Siiiiiiiiiiiggggggggghhhhhhhhhh.

Fine, I'll explain it again.

Vader has been matched beaten by people way weaker than Palpatine. Hell, earlier in that very scene Luke cut his hand off and then was immediately floored by Palpatine's lightning. Vader lost to Galen Marek and a few minutes later, Palpatine blows Galen away like he's nothing. Palpatine even makes a big show of pretending to lose, something Galen notices and comments on, before blowing him up. A few years later, Galen beats Vader again, even after he'd gotten stronger.

It's pretty consistently shown Vader is way below Palpatine.
 
Again Sidious is WAAAY above baseline.

Also, he was cheap-shotted by Galen the second time and was not going all out against Luke because he was his son (IIRC it's even said he was holding back in one of the novels) also lightsabers ignore durability, 5B Anakin was able to cut off 4B Windu's hand with one.

I'm fine with TFA 1 Vader being 5B but he should honestly still somewhat scale via Dooku not getting lolwutstomped and reduced to atoms by Yoda in a nanosecond.
 
LordWhis said:
Again Sidious is WAAAY above baseline.

Also, he was cheap-shotted by Galen the second time and was not going all out against Luke because he was his son (IIRC it's even said he was holding back in one of the novels) also lightsabers ignore durability, 5B Anakin was able to cut off 4B Windu's hand with one.

I'm fine with TFA 1 Vader being 5B but he should honestly still somewhat scale via Dooku not getting lolwutstomped and reduced to atoms by Yoda in a nanosecond.
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Statements used to scale Vader to Sidious claim he's 80% of Sidious. 20% AP gap is not nearly enough to stomp Vader-level characters like Palps does.

Wrong. The Novelization explicitly says Vader was going all out when he lost.

Outlier. Dooku has struggled to beat people way below Yoda's caliber. Ventress and Savage for instance.
 
Wouldn't that just put Ventress and Savage closer to Yoda on the scale, rather then have Dooku be weaker?
 
That breaks scaling though. At that point, nearly every Jedi would be 4-B, including the one that died doing the 5-B feat in the first place.
 
Ventress had two other Nightsisters while Dooku was slightly poisoned and eyes closed, he then almost one shot them when he used his Force Lightning
 
Yeah so? If people consistently fight people who can fight against 4-B's then that would be more consistent.

Also what was the 5-B feat, that will have sway over this.
 
I do think that our current gap between the top tiers and the god tiers is way too big.

Vader vs Sidious is the only fight (except maybe Akainu vs WB) in which the winner is considered by much of the fandom to be the weaker characer.

@wright: there is no fixed ap gap that makes a fight a stomp, Tyson Fury stomped Deontay Wilder while having less AP than him.
 
LordWhis said:
I do think that our current gap between the top tiers and the god tiers is way too big.

Vader vs Sidious is the only fight (except maybe Akainu vs WB) in which the winner is considered by much of the fandom to be the weaker characer.

@wright: there is no fixed ap gap that makes a fight a stomp, Tyson Fury stomped Deontay Wilder while having less AP than him.
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1. No. Most people readily accept that Sidious beats Vader.

2. According to the wiki there is: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/One-Shot
 
It could still have 4-B potency if it overpowered a Jedi, but only the range/AOE to effect a planet.

So it could still make sense even if we still go with the 4-B scaling.
 
Except it was Vader who beat Sidious.

"This gap is strictly for versus debating purposes, and will not apply when attempting to derive the attack potency of a character based on a feat of one-shotting another character in his or her verse."
 
So your suggestion to reverse scale everyone, even Padawans like Ashoka, to feats performed by a verses God-Tiers? No.
 
LordWhis said:
Except it was Vader who beat Sidious.

"This gap is strictly for versus debating purposes, and will not apply when attempting to derive the attack potency of a character based on a feat of one-shotting another character in his or her verse."
Click to expand...
Vader tossed Sidious over a railing and then died. I'd hardly call that a straight win.
 
If it makes sense yes, even if it seems a bit weird. We should do what makes the most sense with the feats provided.

Also why does the power Gap between Padawans and Jedi need to be the big thing? Why should it not skill and experience that mainly differentiates them? They all use the same saber if all stages of their training anyway, so it isn't ridiculous to say that they aren't that far apart in power.
 
Wasn't Yarael near-death when he performed the 5B feat ?

Vader is no padawan, he is hands down one of the most feared and powerful characters in the history of the verse, there is nothimg wrong with him somewhat scaling to Sidious. Even his 2 "losses" were against characters who are considered extremely strong in-verse. It's not like he lost to fodder or anything, also he's extremely weak against lightning based attacks.
 
https://www.suspectinsightforums.com/t1861-darth-vader-anakin-skywalker-r-t

This is Anakin Skywalker: The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace. He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it. '-Revenge of the Sith novel

Gillard also reports that the duel will explain how Obi-Wan is able to defeat his protege, even though Anakin has been established as the most powerful Jedi who ever lived. '-'The Making of Revenge of the Sith

"Skywalker is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive, and he is still getting stronger." '-'Revenge of the Sith

"We won't try, Anakin. We will do. After all, they are only Senators. Most of them couldn't hide what they're thinking from a brain-damaged blindworm, let alone the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy." '-'Revenge of the Sith

"What? How can you do this? This is outrageous! It's unfair! I'm more powerful than any of you. How can you be on the Council and not be a Master?" "Take a seat, young Skywalker . . ." ... Everything in his life had led to this point because Anakin Skywalker's destiny had been subverted and warped by well-meaning but blind Masters, sending him off on a tangent to do a flawed Palpatine's bidding instead of realizing his own full power. I'm more powerful than any of you. It was a boy's expression of anger, but it was true. '-'Legacy of the Force: Bloodlines

"An embarrassment you can survive, Lord Tyranus. After all, he is the greatest Jedi alive, is he not?" '-'Revenge of the Sith

Him being far above TCW Anakin

But Ahsoka eventually became disillusioned and left the Jedi Order, an act which Anakin regretted. The Clone Wars continued, and Anakin became a hero and grew vastly in power. '-http://www.starwars.com/databank/anakin-skywalker

Stronger than Dooku

"Soon, I shall have a new apprentice. One far younger and more powerful." '-Revenge of the Sith

Sidious then turned his attention to Anakin Skywalker, knowing that young Skywalker was much stronger in the Force than Tyranus. '-'The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

Sidious is merely playing for time until he is ready to replace Tyranus with a new, more powerful apprentice, who will help him to achieve his ultimate aim: utter subjugation of the galaxy under Sith rule and the formation of a merciless new order — the Galactic Empire. '-'Revenge of the Sith Incredible Cross-Sections
 
I thought the general counter argument was that Vader entered Oneness when he tossed Sidious going by the Rise and Fall of Darth Vader novel (At least to my memory).
 
Starkiller also beat Post-New Hope Vader too, I'm pretty sure.

Not true both the TFA games happened before ANH.

And in the second game he beat Vader via cheap shot. 5B Anakin was able to beat 4B Windu by cheap shot.
 
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