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Nobody wanted to point out first article in this blog expect Matthew and ByAsura, so let after all enlarge upon the topic. As I said before, Flash top speed according to lot of narrator's statements is the lightspeed.

Corroboratio

Moment with Wally's salvation of people from nuclear explosio. On these scans are placed clear statements of near lightspeed: "at a hair's breadth short of the speed of light", "As his body sloughs off the screaming aftereffects of near light travel." If you're so surprised how did he bother to save around 500k people in a such small fraction of time, just pay attention to explosion itself, that couldn't turn into a nuclear mushroom per 0.00001 microsecond. Also in other comic it was stated Wallace saved all those people in mere seconds before a nuclear device exploded, so statements about near lightspeed now are clamorously acquitted.

A clear indication of lightspeed as top velocity: "How fast is Flash? Both Jay's and Barry's top velocity was 186,000 miles per second, the speed of light. Sprinting, Jay could achieve that speed faster; Barry, however, could maintain light-speed longer, giving him the edge over greater distances."

Jay Garrick talks about what happens to speedsters at and above the speed of light: "186,000 miles per second. The speed of light. Strange things happen as you approach the superluminal barrier. Your body loses physical mass, converting to light energy. Your subjective experience of time changes, it flows like molasses, begins to fold back in upon itself."

Also DC encyclopedias claim lightspeed at best.

In fact, Wally once managed to achieve FTL speed, but almost instantly vanished into speedforce. It is also indisputable proof that faster-than-light speed (let alone massively FTL) cannot be achieved without passively falling into speed force or at least potent space/time distortions according to Jay Garrick (see above), that also probably leads to speedforce.

Further statement: "Running faster than the speed of light gets you in to the speed force."

Explanation from Wally what happens during exceeding lightspeed: "I'm breaking lightspeed, which means I'm skirting the edge of the speed force and letting every last erg of it out through me and into this dimension. I have one foot in each realm and for the first time, I'm holding the door open."

Wally was able to run out of black hole only via developing FTL, therefore by running through speedforce. Another direct confirmation of inability to surpass lightspeed in conventional space.

Miscellaneous controversial and misunderstood feats

Well-known achievement with a run across planetary surface per septosecond in orfer to reset every radio on Earth. Wally's never shown anything like it. He only calculated how much time he has got to the nearest septosecond and figured this was more than enough time to reset every radio on Earth, it's expressly stated on the same scan. So septosecond perception with sub-light running speed.

Wally said their fight with Eobard Thawne took a picosecond, while he only managed to develop lightspeed and hit his opponent in jaw: "The faster an object moves, the more mass it attains. At lightspeed, my fist hits like a white dwarf star." This blow literally is the whole fight, repeat twice, he just reached the speed of light to hit Thawne with mass of white dwarf star, which also means they were running slower than light before this certain moment.

All of you must understand that calculations with massively FTL outcomes no way can be right, because initially Flash speed was limited to lightspeed and they can run faster only inside speedforce, that passively draws them into itself at attempt of FTL running. That's not a subspecies of PIS or something like that, but completely reliable evidence of what I'm trying to tell you. VSB clearly has huge problems with similar things like that and scaling of MFTL combat speed from flight in hyperspace...
 
With years of history, come different authors, ideas and consequently, different feats and statements. You can't just take vague statements from different eras to say that Flash can't surpass the speed of light, it's ridiculous. Did you know that there is a large arc explaining why Flashes cannot pass the speed of light? And yet we classify them as above because of practical feats. Just as you have gathered a lot of vague statements about them not being able to exceed the speed of light, I can show you a lot statements with the oppose
 
There's so many different interpretations on how Flash works and just cherry-picking instances where he moves at sub-light speed is ridiculous.
 
M3X said:
With years of history, come different authors, ideas and consequently, different feats and statements. You can't just take vague statements from different eras to say that Flash can't surpass the speed of light, it's ridiculous. Did you know that there is a large arc explaining why Flashes cannot pass the speed of light? And yet we classify them as above because of practical feats. Just as you have gathered a lot of vague statements about them not being able to exceed the speed of light, I can show you a lot statements with the oppose
How existence of different authors affects impossibility of Flashes to exceeding lightspeed, if it was mentioned almost everywhere and has been explained by Wally/Jay themselves? Practical feat is Wally's FTL running and therefore instant disappearance in speedforce. Your practical feats are just calculations with pernicious trillions FTL and those like picosecond punch. Seriously, can those brainwashed VSB members ever understand this?
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
There's so many different interpretations on how Flash works and just cherry-picking instances where he moves at sub-light speed is ridiculous.
ðían you provide at least one statement that Flash can move at FTL speed without speedforce? Because your statements really don't make any sense. Wally had to enter speedforce in order to exceed the speed of light and run out of black hole. There are clear explanations from authors and characters themselves what happens during surpassing lightspeed, you call it cherry-picking instances without any evidence of your own opinion, meh.
 
M3X said:
With years of history, come different authors, ideas and consequently, different feats and statements. You can't just take vague statements from different eras to say that Flash can't surpass the speed of light, it's ridiculous. Did you know that there is a large arc explaining why Flashes cannot pass the speed of light? And yet we classify them as above because of practical feats. Just as you have gathered a lot of vague statements about them not being able to exceed the speed of light, I can show you a lot statements with the oppose
Well, show me those lot of statements, if you're offering.
 
There's a ton of feats and statements. And often the takes that characters can't move Faster than Light contradict themselves. Like the "Anatomy of a Metahuman" book that says that Superman moves faster than light by unconsciously bending space and time to open Wormholes... But then explains that these Wormholes only stay open for plank-instants and we're supposed to believe that Superman can move through them in rapid succesion and actively, effectively giving him a ridiculously high FTL feat while saying he isn't.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
There's a ton of feats and statements. And often the takes that characters can't move Faster than Light contradict themselves. Like the "Anatomy of a Metahuman" book that says that Superman moves faster than light by unconsciously bending space and time to open Wormholes... But then explains that these Wormholes only stay open for plank-instants and we're supposed to believe that Superman can move through them in rapid succesion and actively, effectively giving him a ridiculously high FTL feat while saying he isn't.
Superman's maximum speed is faster than sound
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
There's a ton of feats and statements. And often the takes that characters can't move Faster than Light contradict themselves. Like the "Anatomy of a Metahuman" book that says that Superman moves faster than light by unconsciously bending space and time to open Wormholes... But then explains that these Wormholes only stay open for plank-instants and we're supposed to believe that Superman can move through them in rapid succesion and actively, effectively giving him a ridiculously high FTL feat while saying he isn't.
However I am completely serious. I told you to send just one or two statements from comicbooks that Flash can run at FTL speed without getting into speedforce, about encyclopedias and handbooks I agree with you, we cannot rely on what is written there. But (say again) there must be statements about FTL within conventional space, which confirms your viewpoint. You guys only rely on calculations with very controversial quantities, which give us rabid outcomes like Wonder Woman's bazillion FTL combat speed. Geek calcs no way can be compared with numerous statements from different narrators and characters themselves. You dude throw them away just because they don't match your opinion and calcs with amazingly thick outcomes, and you (AGAIN) just can't find and give me necessary statements from comicbook, right?

(still waiting for proofs)
 
"Nerd/Geek" calcs actually have far more credibility than the various author statements. It goes without saying that most authors are nothing more than story writers, not scientists of Vs debaters. Planet/Moon busting feats have often been calculated at Large Planet level to Star level for similar reasons. And same with Sephiroth's Supernova.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
"Nerd/Geek" calcs actually have far more credibility than the various author statements. It goes without saying that most authors are nothing more than story writers, not scientists of Vs debaters. Planet/Moon busting feats have often been calculated at Large Planet level to Star level for similar reasons. And same with Sephiroth's Supernova.
You kidding me? No idea how you can say that fanboy's opinion is far more more important. I do not deny that moon busting feat can be calced to be Planet level and all that sort of thing, but ******* shit... Guys like you have to be really stupid for assert that calc with just controversial values and results stand above opinion of authors community. If the result of calculation exceed speed limit set by many narrators, it's not their fault. Fact of Flash top velocity as lightspeed does not depend on their intelligence or ability to calculate kinetic energy via planet busting. In fact you folks are telling bullshit.
 
He's using thinking at the speed of light as a reference point of what he "can" do, then goes on to state how fast he can percieve events and react to them as a greater example of what he "can"

If he literally thought at the speed of light, he would, by definition of what an attosecond is, be unable to percieve attoseconds.

(In an attosecond, light only moves 0.3 nanometers. Thinking at lightspeed means his synapses still wouldn't have fired in an attosecond for him to percieve it).

Remember, he also states he runs faster than time, which according to DC Lore requires speeds much faster than light to break the time barrier. (Wally had to go greater than the speed of light squared to break the time barrier, Barry and Superman had to go "far beyond" light speed to break it, etc)
 
AerrowStorm1 said:
Thank you for another confirmation of my words, on third scan Wally was running FTL via summoning speedforce. And because Flash was moving so quickly that light attacks was having trouble keeping pace.

Wally can leave photons standing, yes, via FTL speedforce running. You can't prove that he could run FTL in conventional space, third scan with outrunning light inside speedforce more than confims it.

Picosecond perception speed, or MFTL+ Kyle's blast, cool
 
Um, he's not in the Speedforce there. He's on Earth, using the Speedforce to pull Mirrormaster into his slipstream. Did you not pay attention? "Just pulling you into my sllipstream and sprewading a little speedforce around". Hell, the very next page confirms they're not in the speedforce and the comic repeatedly uses that background to simply show Wally is running fast If he was inside the speedforce, he wouldn't be spreading it around.

The second and third picture are him outpacing light in regular space.
 
Damn, I'm tired of explaining to you every disputable achievement, I never got an proof that Flash can run FTL in conventional space. Bart Allen, as I know, was stated to be able of FTL running outside speedforce. Barry can think at lightspeed and perceive attosecond time intervals as well as Wally perceive septoseconds, but perception speed is not equal to movement speed. Using speedforce Wally can run whole planet in nanosecond, but you cannot prove that he does it without going into speedforce. But we have proofs that Wally moves maximum at lightspeed and it was clearly shown that by surpassing SoL in conventional space he almost instantly vanished into speedforce. Good day and God bless.
 
Except....I just showed several examples of him running FTL without going into the Spedforce.

I even took the time to debunk your claim that in The Flash 133, he took Mirror Master into the Speedforce, as the pages show he's just using speedforce energy to drag Mirror Master around.
 
AerrowStorm1 said:
Except....I just showed several examples of him running FTL without going into the Spedforce.
I even took the time to debunk your claim that in The Flash 133, he took Mirror Master into the Speedforce, as the pages show he's just using speedforce energy to drag Mirror Master around.
He summoned some speedforce, meh, just for what? He couldn't run FTL without it.
 
AerrowStorm1 said:
Except....I just showed several examples of him running FTL without going into the Spedforce.
I even took the time to debunk your claim that in The Flash 133, he took Mirror Master into the Speedforce, as the pages show he's just using speedforce energy to drag Mirror Master around.
Also Wally ran at lightspeed.
 
.....Well DUH. Speedforce is their power source. All of their powers come from it. You claimed they can't do it in "conventional space" without falling into the Speed Force

But I showed

1. Wally running so fast, light can't keep up without falling into the Speed Force as confirmed by Jay Garrick ("Light's still catching up"), meaning he was going FTL.


2. Wally moving so fast, he confirms light can't keep up with him, as he himself confirms without falling into the speed force.

3. Wally completely outpacing Kyle Rayner's blast (Green Lantern light blasts have multiple times been shown to move at lightspeed at the minimum) and searching 500,000 people without falling into the speedforce.

4. Wally dodging an attack at FTL speeds without falling into the SpeedForce.

5. Wally, as both a kid and an adult casually counting femto and attoseconds.

6. Wally travelling miles in nanoseconds, when light only moves feet in nanoseconds without falling into the speedforce.
 
@Rostislav Klepikov

You do realize that the site prioritizes feats, statements and scaling over author statements right? Whether or not the author is accurate, we index the capabilities of characters based on their showings and feats. Word of God is usually applied as either support for a rating or if the character's statistics aren't properly defined by on-screen feats. The Flash is MFTL+ because he has consistent speed feats on that level and what an author states here is irrelevant if it contradicts the source material.

And most of his speed feats were performed either outside the speedforce or can be gained from scaling above other MFTL+ characters that don't use it so I don't see your point. Unless you can prove why Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and several other characters aren't MFTL+, Flash is still keeping his rating.
 
Planck69 said:
@Rostislav Klepikov
You do realize that the site prioritizes feats, statements and scaling over author statements right? Whether or not the author is accurate, we index the capabilities of characters based on their showings and feats. Word of God is usually applied as either support for a rating or if the character's statistics aren't properly defined by on-screen feats. The Flash is MFTL+ because he has consistent speed feats on that level and what an author states here is irrelevant if it contradicts the source material.

And most of his speed feats were performed either outside the speedforce or can be gained from scaling above other MFTL+ characters that don't use it so I don't see your point. Unless you can prove why Superman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and several other characters aren't MFTL+, Flash is still keeping his rating.
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https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/2/2f/CY0xdZCIOTw.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/400?cb=20190912174930[/IMG][/URL]
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Except....I just showed several examples of him running FTL without going into the Spedforce.
I even took the time to debunk your claim that in The Flash 133, he took Mirror Master into the Speedforce, as the pages show he's just using speedforce energy to drag Mirror Master around.
 
AerrowStorm1 said:
Um, he's not in the Speedforce there. He's on Earth, using the Speedforce to pull Mirrormaster into his slipstream. Did you not pay attention? "Just pulling you into my sllipstream and sprewading a little speedforce around". Hell, the very next page confirms they're not in the speedforce and the comic repeatedly uses that background to simply show Wally is running fast If he was inside the speedforce, he wouldn't be spreading it around.
The second and third picture are him outpacing light in regular space.
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Um...thank you for that, but I don't understand Russian.

You also haven't countered any of my examples. I sent Six examples of Wally going FTL on Earth without falling into the speedforce, which directly counters your claim that he will fall into the speed force if he goes FTL on Earth.

I even specifically debunked your claim that he took Mirror Master into the speed force, since he provably did not.

How do you respond to that?
 
AerrowStorm1 said:
Um...thank you for that, but I don't understand Russian.
You also haven't countered any of my examples. I sent Six examples of Wally going FTL on Earth without falling into the speedforce, which directly counters your claim that he will fall into the speed force if he goes FTL on Earth.

I even specifically debunked your claim that he took Mirror Master into the speed force, since he provably did not.

How do you respond to that?
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