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Phoenix Wright vs Thunder McQueen Rematch (grace)

Buttersamuri

Buttersamuri

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The main issue as I see it, is that Thunder will notice Phoenix pointing at him and target him when this happens, meaning if Thunder is blown back so is Phoenix. If Thunder is killed in an explosion, so is Phoenix.

So unless I'm missing something, it's a tie
 
No. It would banish Thunders stand. Not Thunder himsel. Phoenix can sense, see, and detect Spirts and such. It was talked about that he could no doubt see Stands, and his power let's him Banish them. And since this doesn't in turn kill Thunder. The stand doesn't perform his magic. Plus is already in hell and can't.
 
Ahh. So you agree with this Soulution. Think it to be Wright. That Phoenix wins in Trite in the Nick of time. That Thuner McQueen s stand is Pheinished.


I'll stop being the worst of humanity now. Thank you for our vote
 
No. I'm saying he won't do any banishment because he can't do it immediately. He needs to first pressure his opponent into an emotional breakdown.

Edit: Ah, that was in response to the other guy. My apologies. ovo
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Phoenix's "banishment" is not combat applicable. He only did it once after a long long court session.
Click to expand...
Yea it is. Just because he did it once. Doesn't mean he suddenly can't do it. It's a confirmed ability He has done both in anime and Games. He just hasn't needed to banish someone to hell. But ya know. If he is fighting someone who is essentially possessed with a spirit. And a bad one. Send them to hell.

And no he doesn't. Nothing suggests that. Just because he put her under pressure, doesn't mean he needs to. All he did was said he didn't care about the case anymore and then GG her.
 
So. Most of these things he does during breakdowns. It's because it's court. There are always breakdowns. Why would he banish her before hand. He didn't have reason yet. He needed information from her. But when he learned Mia's whereabouts and could solve the case. He didn't care anymore. If anything. He only cared for Mia's safety there. The moment he knew. He yeeted Her away.
 
So... He can't do it out of the blue. Everything else is mere speculation. What we saw is he only gets to "soul hax" anything after an intense emotional breakdown. Nothing more, nothing less.

Edit: Btw, you are confusing Mia with Maya.
 
Yes he can do it out of the blue. It's like all his other abilities. It takes a single point. And that's not true to the slightest. On casual conversation he has used it before. One guy coming up and claiming the killer is his Defendent. Phoenix exposes a lie this guy was telling and shot out wind, other cases shooting out light, explosions, and other stuff. The "emotional breakdown" scenes are just like that because he tends to be exposing people a lot. But he clearly uses this in more casual situations. His powers aren't stuck to emotional feeling.
 
His wind/shout whatever may be. But the soul hax is explicitly tied to an emotional breakdown from Dahlia.

Anything else is speculation, again.
 
Nothing suggest that. What we do know is we have seen him use such powers in normal or more casual settings. And considering he seems to be in a fight, he most certainly will be in strong to use his powers regardless. Saying just because this was used during an emotional scene, doesn't mean he stuck to that scene only. He just happened to use it in that scene.

What your saying it speculation. You don't actually have any evidence to say this is true except "well this was an emotional breakdown moment." That doesn't matter. It doesn't change the fact he uses These magic like attacks in even casual situations. Something which does prove evidently that his hacks are normal to him. Further proof? How about other lawyers like say Miles or Manfred who do it with little effort: Manfred used his ability when al he was doing was snapping at Lardy direction. And believe me. Nobody was in any sort of emotional breakdown. These powers are normal. And it can't be assumed it's limited to only that. The anime quite shows against it.
 
Except we do have another example of how intense emotional stress can end the Kurain Canalization technique with Spirit of Justice.
 
Considering she didn't leave until Phoenix downright forces it, and she still didn't want to go yet was force into it shows he can interact with souls and banish them. This wasn't the dress made her leave. Phoenix made her leave. Both anime and game. It was directly Phoenix who caused it.
 
And we even get one of the spirit channelers confirming it is possible to force a spirit away. with certain techniques, and or a special item
 
The point is not to argue Phoenix didn't sent her to hell. However, for the ghost to come out, there needs to be some form of emotional stress.

Like with this dude. The ghost came out because he got caught lying.
 
As such, for Phoenix to banish the stand, he needs to stress out Thunder McQueen... Which would only make him want to kill himself faster.
 
Except he doesn't. I've already explained his powers aren't limited to stress.

And if he already wants to kill himself. That's a pretty stressful situation and life.
 
His only showing of soul hax required an emotional breakdown. As per being the only showing of said specific power, and with another example from the games where the Canalization can spontaneously end from sheer emotional stress, both this facts points us to said conclusion. Phoenix has to pressure his opponent for him to use the soul hax on.

That may be true, however, now we can continue on with the debate. Both are bloodlusted, but otherwise, doesn't know the abilities of the other. It is unlikely Phoenix will go with the soulhax being bloodlusted. He wouls simply blow this dude up. While Thunder McQueen will immediately try to kill himself.

This fight would end up inconclusive more times than Phoenix winning.
 
No. It happening During one but that doesn't mean their connected. That's a baseless assumption. It didn't happen until Phoenix did his thing. It was based and timed on Phoenix command. Not stress. You can't cherry pick the situation. You are choosing specific details instead of the entire context.

And Yes he would. Soul Hacks are way faster than his other hacks. Soul Hacks bypass durability. And due to his enhanced senses and super natural powers, he would know of the guys stand possessing him. He would most certainly Soul hack. He honestly might soul hack in character. Let alone bloodlusted. Why would he resort to a weaker attack when bloodlusted? That makes 0 sense.
 
Actually no. I'm looking at the entire scene. From the moment Mia started pressuring Dahlia, we start seeing hints of the breakdown (that being, her soul leaving Maya). We also have another scene where this is more explicitly the case.

Except, he doesn't have any sensing abilities beyond lies based on Maya's Magatama. He also doesn't know Thunder's nor his stand abilities. He also doesn't know he has to bypass any defense. He also wouldn't soul hax in-character in any other situation besides wanting to kill at all costs. However, he is not a maniac. He is analytical. He also has a friend that uses soul-based powers. In-character, Phoenix would see the stand and compare it to the Kurain Canalization Technique. Unless Thunder gave an indication that the stand was affecting him in some way.

In this scenario, however, he wants to kill thunder. Not eradicate a phantom. That would help Thunder from his point of view here. He would, 100%, without a doubt, make Thunder explode.
 
You are limiting your look with little context and cherry picking the details. Even with just looking at the scene alone, You can't assume it only works during stress. That's just not how it works. It only worked on Phoenix command. She was stressed out like that several times during the courtcase. It was only until Phoenix chose to banish her that it happened. It's an ability he has. You can't cherry pick it. That wouldn't work as a valid reason. Plus the fact he uses abilties in casual stuff. Shows his powers wouldn't be limited. So your reasnoning still isn't valid

Wrong. He can see Spirts naturally and sense them too. And he doesn't need Mia there to do it. That's just an ability he has had consistently.

Ehh no. Again. Why resort to a weaker attack? Why not resort to the thing that literally would banish souls. No need for durability. Instead banish their souls.
 
His spirit sensing doesn't matter because HtH doesn't have any physical appearance normally and it doesn't appear until the damage occurs.
 
Yea it would. He could still detect that there was another spirit there. He doesn't need to make a physical appearance. He just needs to know. Which he would right off the bat.
 
Also, Stands are in no way similar to souls. Ghosts exist in JJBA and they can own Stands. Those that don't can't see the Stands of others.
 
Stands were categorized under it and it was pretty agreed upon that it should work. What your saying is a NLF. People who can justify under the seeing and sensing things like spirits should be able to see and sense a stand.
 
He qualifies under that. We just put him under enhanced senses. Tbh. I'm not sure why i put it like that. But yea. He does quality.

Soul manipulation would work. Banishes the stand to hell. That's what stands were qualified under. Brought up in earlier thread above.
 
"Why wouldn't he use Soul Manip?"

Because he doesn't know he needs to use it here, and he has a far more reliable way to kill someone, which it's his intent.

Also, he wouldn't want to help his opponent. Phoenix doesn't know what a stand is. To him, the stand is possessing Thunder. He is bloodlusted, he wants to kill Thunder. He doesn't know the stand is a part of Thunder's soul. Why would he soul hax him when, to him, that would help?
 
TacticalNuke002 said:
Also, Stands are in no way similar to souls. Ghosts exist in JJBA and they can own Stands. Those that don't can't see the Stands of others.
Click to expand...
Stands are a part of the soul. However, indeed, they are invisible even to ghosts.
 
"Doesn't need too."

He doesn't need to blow him up either. But he is bloodlusted. So PIS stiff like that isn't considered. He would go for the win. And his quickest win is soul Hacks.

He doesn't need to help his opponent. Soul hacking them. It would result in both their deaths. But because the Stand would be banished. It couldn't use its ability. And it wouldn't really be helping him. It's just soul hacking him.
 
That's not PiS. Bloodlust doesn't take away his character nor gives him knowledge.

Phoenix has several abilities that can kill/hurt. One out of several is soul hax. Even if we say he would use soul hax in one scenario, he still has several other ways he would attack. And if he uses any one other than soul hax, Thunder inconclusives his way to... victory?

As such, by a majority, this fight ends in Inconclusive. Only one out of several possibilities ends in Phoenix winning.
 
Bloodlusted means he goes for the win. He is gonna go for his Soul hacks. That's realistically what he would do in a bloodlusted state. If it's normal state; then yes. Soul Hacks is one of the few he would do. But this is bloodlusted. Meaning he goes for instant KO. Which would be a soul hack.

In character fight would be different. I would agree that it is a thing he could do. But one of 2 other abilities. And even then he only had 2 other abilties. Not even like he has dozens of attacks and such. It's just two other abilties. Plus, as I brought up before. Bloodlusted means go for the win. Aka. Soul Hacks. He would have no reason to consider any other attack. As any other attack could fail if the guy was tough enough. Much like how others survive it in his verse. But a soul hack ignored durability. It's no doubt what he resorts to when bloodlusted. Other attacks would fail. But he wouldn't use other attacks in this situation.
 
Bloodlusted means he 100% wants to kill, but doesn't take away his character. He won't 100% open with soul hax. Is a possibility. But there are others just as (and more) probable.

My vote remains with inconclusive.
 
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