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Kenpachi Zaraki tries to solo his own verse: Round 2 - Tōshirō Hitsugaya
- Thread starter Seventy96
- Start date
Ovy7
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Adult Hitsugaya >>>> Shikai Kenny w/o eyepatch + Kendo
I'm not sure about where Bankai Kenpachi stands compared to Adult Toshiro, tho IMO they are pretty close, so the battle comes down to hax where Toshiro completelly eclipses Kenpachi.
Hmm, I dunno, Adult Toshiro could take it 6/10 times.
I'm not sure about where Bankai Kenpachi stands compared to Adult Toshiro, tho IMO they are pretty close, so the battle comes down to hax where Toshiro completelly eclipses Kenpachi.
Hmm, I dunno, Adult Toshiro could take it 6/10 times.
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Best character beats second best character via hax and better mindset.
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bankai zaraki can swing like 2 or 3 times before straining his body too much righht ?
toshiro win this easily , relative strengh , better hax , better range, doesn't act like a raging idiot and no cripling stamina issue compared to bankai zaraki.
toshiro win this easily , relative strengh , better hax , better range, doesn't act like a raging idiot and no cripling stamina issue compared to bankai zaraki.
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she also said that his body isn't ready to handle his power yet so he is limited stillOvy7 said:
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- Thread starter
- #7
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Toshiro can't handle his power output as he noted to Byakuya. He also has to wait four seconds/steps before his ultimate move, which was ineffective against Gerard.
On the other hand Zaraki can't handle his own power if Yachiru releases too much He also loses his speed advantage via equalization.
Hmm tough, here is how I see it going:
Zaraki lunges at Toshiro, who leaps away and makes some comment about the caranage.
Zaraki tries again and Toshiro telegraphs the move and uses his ranged Ice. Zaraki slashes at it though. Still slows his attack somewhat as they clash.
If Toshiro can tank at least this one attack then he should be golden for his four steps move. Quesstion is can Zaraki break out of it. I think he can, but Yachiru will go overboard and relase more then is needed. breaking his body.
Match Toshiro.
On the other hand Zaraki can't handle his own power if Yachiru releases too much He also loses his speed advantage via equalization.
Hmm tough, here is how I see it going:
Zaraki lunges at Toshiro, who leaps away and makes some comment about the caranage.
Zaraki tries again and Toshiro telegraphs the move and uses his ranged Ice. Zaraki slashes at it though. Still slows his attack somewhat as they clash.
If Toshiro can tank at least this one attack then he should be golden for his four steps move. Quesstion is can Zaraki break out of it. I think he can, but Yachiru will go overboard and relase more then is needed. breaking his body.
Match Toshiro.
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It's 4 steps.
It's hard to compare their strengths against each other because Adult Hitsugaya easily carved through Gerard's Hoffnung when a eyepatchless Shikai Kenpachi literally only knicks Hoffnung.
So both Adult Hitsugaya and Bankai Kenpachi are just "vastly superior to Shikai Kenpachi".
Thus you compare versatility and speed.
Speed is pretty much the same between them, but versatility is heavily lopsided for Toshiro while Kenpachi has nothing really.
It's hard to compare their strengths against each other because Adult Hitsugaya easily carved through Gerard's Hoffnung when a eyepatchless Shikai Kenpachi literally only knicks Hoffnung.
So both Adult Hitsugaya and Bankai Kenpachi are just "vastly superior to Shikai Kenpachi".
Thus you compare versatility and speed.
Speed is pretty much the same between them, but versatility is heavily lopsided for Toshiro while Kenpachi has nothing really.
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Icy Boi FRA
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I think you guys are underrating Zaraki. Besides the fact that Shunsui flat out states he is the strongest soul reaper in the light novel, he casually destroyed Gerard with his Bankai. Sure Toshiro cut Hoffnung in half but Kenny literally BIT Gerard's skyscraper sized arm off. Add that to the fact that Kenny is faster than Toshiro and that Toshiro can't block his swings and I give this to Kenny.
Kenny has also shown a natural resistance to hax. The only hax we've seen work on him is godly hax from pieces of the soul king. Against normal people like Azashiro and Cien he "no u'd" massive amounts of hax like Cien's voodoo dolls and Azashiro's body fusion.
Kenny has also shown a natural resistance to hax. The only hax we've seen work on him is godly hax from pieces of the soul king. Against normal people like Azashiro and Cien he "no u'd" massive amounts of hax like Cien's voodoo dolls and Azashiro's body fusion.
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i don't think we know that for sure unless i missed something.Amlad22 said:
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The problem with being called the strongest is that it can easily refer to the most physically powerful which no one would dispute in the case of Kenpachi and would even be the default assumption when it comes to people whose feats exist in a vacuum like his own.
That being said, I agree with Amlad tbh. On his point about ignoring hax bar SK stuff, consider the fact that Toshiro failed to null The Miracle which is also an SK power. Kenny also has pretty big aoe on his swings so he just lashes out and Toshiro needs to dodge a few of them before Kenny's arm blows up.
That being said, I agree with Amlad tbh. On his point about ignoring hax bar SK stuff, consider the fact that Toshiro failed to null The Miracle which is also an SK power. Kenny also has pretty big aoe on his swings so he just lashes out and Toshiro needs to dodge a few of them before Kenny's arm blows up.
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Yeah the only two instances of hax working on Zaraki are from Pernida and Gerard. Both of which are pieces of the soul king. Some of the most haxed regular characters have been completely negged by Zaraki, even Shunsui as I said earlier, who literally warps reality on a minor scale, admitted he could not beat Zaraki.
Also I say Zaraki is faster based on how he essentially blitzed Gerard where as Toshiro and Gerard seemed to be comparable to each other.
But yeah I give my vote to Kenny via his superior strength, likely superior speed and natural resistance to any non godly hax.
Also I say Zaraki is faster based on how he essentially blitzed Gerard where as Toshiro and Gerard seemed to be comparable to each other.
But yeah I give my vote to Kenny via his superior strength, likely superior speed and natural resistance to any non godly hax.
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Toshiro FRA
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Do you have evidence of Kenpachi dismissing Toshiro's hax? Because you can resist Soulhax but being affected by Mindhax just well.
A claim that big needs more than words to be proven, otherwise it's just a NLF.
A claim that big needs more than words to be proven, otherwise it's just a NLF.
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Uhhh Kenny has resisted many different forms of hax. Toshiro's is no different. Kenny's whole thing is passively resisting hax, it was stated in the Azashiro light novel when he stopped Cien from using his hax abilities simply by existing. The novel went on to state that other forms of hax wouldn't work on Kenny as well and this wasn't a one time thing.
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We need evidence of him resisting the same hax Toshiro has.
Just because he has resisted stuff from other people who has different hax it doesn't mean he resist all of hax in fiction.
Just because he has resisted stuff from other people who has different hax it doesn't mean he resist all of hax in fiction.
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That's literally what was implied in the novel. It was very heavily implied, maybe even flat out stated, that when Kenny's power is above the person he is fighting he can passively neg their hax. It's unknown what would happen if he actually tried negging their hax but he doesn't have to. It was shown against Cien and Azashiro (and maybe Roca if I remember correctly), it was also stated that the hax of people like Barragan wouldn't work due to Kenny's passive hax negging.
Literally Cien was winning against Zaraki, and then once Zaraki surpassed Cien's power he began to easily neg all of his hax. All Kenny needs is to be stronger than his opponent with the exception of godly hax which was addressed above.
Literally Cien was winning against Zaraki, and then once Zaraki surpassed Cien's power he began to easily neg all of his hax. All Kenny needs is to be stronger than his opponent with the exception of godly hax which was addressed above.
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I mean in the CFYOW novel it was stated multiple times that higher reiatsu can neg hax.
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Look, I don't read the novels and this is the first time I hear about this. If you don't quote the novel or give me the source where I can see IT by myself then I can't really believe what you say, mostly because Ken's profile doesn't state a single resistance.
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Excuse me for not being enough interested in the verse to not read the novels.
It's not my fault that the Bleach's profiles are outdated in almost everything.
It's not my fault that the Bleach's profiles are outdated in almost everything.
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The whole "higher reiatsu=negate hax" thing is just so inconsistent. We have that statement from Aizen that one time but even that is dubious due to KS. The only other times it has happened was in the SAFWY Light Novel and Gerard kinda did it to Toshirō although that seemed to be either Rei-ō shenanigans or The Miracle.
But then you have times where that whole concept was trampled on. For example, Askin affecting Ōetsu, Grimmjow and Ichigo, etc.
It doesn't really make sense.
But then you have times where that whole concept was trampled on. For example, Askin affecting Ōetsu, Grimmjow and Ichigo, etc.
It doesn't really make sense.
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Why is Grimm an example of inconsistency? Nothing puts him far above Askin and Ichigo and Oetsu can just be a good bit above him but not the huge levels needed to neg. He spent the entire time avoiding fighting and the only people to harm him were Oetsu with his dura neg, Yoruichi who specifically amps herself to far higher levels and Urahara with matter hax.
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He tore through Askin with his bare hands, among other feats and statements from the CFYOW LN. Even so, where is it stated that "huge levels" of reiatsu is needed to suppress abilities? Either way, the difference between Askin and Ichigo in reiatsu is far higher than the difference between Suì-Fēng and Sōsuke. What...? Ōetsu didn't and cannot negate durability and that assertion about Yoruichi is irrelevant to my point.AnonymousBlank said:
Fact is, there's other examples. Yhwach's Almighty worked on Ichigo despite a far from optimal Ichigo turning him into goo. The whole reason that Shuhei was able to deal with Hikone was because his Bankai is hax. Ichigo couldn't break out of Quilge's Jail without Quincy reiatsu. Zommari's Amor worked on Byakuya. Even Zaraki himself was affected by Pwrnida's Compulsory and Hoffnung's damage reflection.
I'm not going to list every example from the series because we all know this concept is simply inconsistent, if not, not an actual thing.
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Putting his hand through Askin doesn't make him far stronger, that puts him on roughly the same level.
You clearly missed the point of reiatsu negging other people.
A sword so sharp, Oetsu can't even make a normal sheath to hold it and has to resort to a jelly tank that holds it from the guard? Not much of a stretch to call it dura neg.
Its like you ignored Amlad pointing out that SK hax works on Kenpachi even when he is monstrously stronger than the hax user despite him negging hax of comparable individuals just by becoming slightly stronger.
Hikone spends his time holding back his reiatsu, ie limiting himsef like Hog Aizen allowing others to affect him, and only ramps it up in response to stronger threats. Even then its only to enough to beat the opponent rather than going all out
Maybe because the Jail was being applied to the space and not Ichigo himself. Quilge had also amped himself and the only problem with Ichigo was being to slow to tag.
Amor working on Byakuya just reinforces them being comparable when both were fighting pretty evenly before.
Yes, Zaraki was affected by SK hax which has shown to affect him while other hax doesnt. Gerard was even shown to be physically superior to Kenny so that argument doesnt hold anyway.
You clearly missed the point of reiatsu negging other people.
A sword so sharp, Oetsu can't even make a normal sheath to hold it and has to resort to a jelly tank that holds it from the guard? Not much of a stretch to call it dura neg.
Its like you ignored Amlad pointing out that SK hax works on Kenpachi even when he is monstrously stronger than the hax user despite him negging hax of comparable individuals just by becoming slightly stronger.
Hikone spends his time holding back his reiatsu, ie limiting himsef like Hog Aizen allowing others to affect him, and only ramps it up in response to stronger threats. Even then its only to enough to beat the opponent rather than going all out
Maybe because the Jail was being applied to the space and not Ichigo himself. Quilge had also amped himself and the only problem with Ichigo was being to slow to tag.
Amor working on Byakuya just reinforces them being comparable when both were fighting pretty evenly before.
Yes, Zaraki was affected by SK hax which has shown to affect him while other hax doesnt. Gerard was even shown to be physically superior to Kenny so that argument doesnt hold anyway.
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I feel like a revision thread for Zaraki could be needed about this. His passive ability to neg the hax of anyone less than of equal to him is a really important part of his character that isn't in his profile like was stated above. Anyone against that?
He should also have a key with his stats from the light novel. There was a point where he fought Cien where he was A LOT stronger than he was in the arrancar arc but still much weaker than when he bested Azashiro and Unohana.
He should also have a key with his stats from the light novel. There was a point where he fought Cien where he was A LOT stronger than he was in the arrancar arc but still much weaker than when he bested Azashiro and Unohana.
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Problem here is that we need quotes of such except we don't have translations of the chapters, just summaries so that isn't gonna really happen until we do.
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