Bleach - Mimihagi and acausality

I'm aware that Mimihagi having Abstract Existence was rejected due to the current wording had to be redone. However i believe i found an ability that fits Mimihagi even more than Abstract Existence would. That being acausality type 2 for reasons I'll get into. But first lets examine the current definition of Acausality type 2 and how it fits Mimihagi almost perfectly.


Type 2: Temporal Singularity: Characters with this type of Acausality do not exist in either the past or the future, only the present. This means they cannot be affected by changes to the past, while also making them resistant to Precognition that works by viewing the future, as they do not exist within it, and Fate Manipulation, for the same reason. In essence, they are able to choose their own fates, but they remain just as vulnerable at the point in time in which they do exist.


Now what does this remind you of? If you answered Mimihagi then you'd be correct. Mimihagi governs and embodies Stagnation, Mimihagi does not progres or regress and we know that he's resistant to Yhwach's Almighty Precog allowing him to see every possible future on a whim. It also allows Yhwach to change the future he sees via the Almighty however Mimihagi is noted as being able to escape Yhwach's gaze, leaving Yhwach with no other chocie but to absorb him. Now for some evidence given to us from the light novel.


"But the Tsunayashiro ancestor doubted even this non-resistance. Afraid of the Rei-o escaping from his seal by himself; he neither wanted the Rei-o to live nor did he want to kill him. Continuing this helix of contradictions, the Right Arm of 'stagnation' and the Left Arm of 'Progress' were torn off." During that age, all of creation was in a state of ambiguity. There was neither life nor death; progression and regression flickered to and fro. Swaying and swaying slowly; this waning and waxing world waited for a hundred million years to cool down. Eventually, Hollows became a part of the circulation of souls... But before long, Hollows began devouring humans. And so, the circulation ceased. All those souls came together to form a gigantic Hollow, a Menos. The world became completely still. But you know, it's a strange thing. A new life came into being. As if the world itself naturally rejected it, he destroyed it and turned it into sands of reishi; thus, circulation began once again."


Mimihagi-sama, the Right Arm of the Rei-o, whom Captain Ukitake had accepted into his body when he was young.

-Pernida Parnkgjas, a Quincy, was the Left Arm of the Rei-o.

-If the Right Arm governed 'stagnation' and the Left Arm governed 'progress', then why did the Rei-o lose both?

-That means the Rei-o is neither 'stagnant', nor is he 'advancing'. That means he is in between the 'static' and the 'dynamic'.

Hisagi's mind now turned to the fragment of a speech Aizen had uttered when he had defected from the Soul Society

The monk spoke in a matter-of-fact tone; quietly reminiscing about the world that existed before the birth of Hueco Mundo and the World of the Living.

"But before long, Hollows began devouring humans. And so, the circulation ceased. All those souls came together to form a gigantic Hollow, a Menos. The world became completely still. But you know, it's a strange thing. A new life came into being. As if the world itself naturally rejected it, he destroyed it and turned it into sands of reishi; thus, circulation began once again."


To add onto this I'll repost what Imade said quite some time ago regarding this.


The Soul King was a being not of life nor death while also not stagnant nor advancement. It was not of life nor death given that the concepts did not exist until the Soul King made those concepts possible later on. All of this circling back to Yhwach as he took in the Soul King for himself including the Right and Left Arms. He became the Soul King after doing so. Having Stagnation and Advancement while also not of life nor death

So what do we know?

• Mimihagi more than fits the majority of the criterias for Type 2 AE

• Mimihagi does not posses a future nor past as he only governs Stagnation, meaning that he lacks the ability to evolve.

• Mimihagi is eons of years old given that he's one of the hands of the Soul King

• Mimihagi is immune to the precog of Yhwach's Almighty which lets him see every possible future clearly and wasn't able to fate hax Mimihagi, going for the absorbtion option instead

• Bonus, Yhwach is resistant to the causality manipulation of Orihime after absorbing Mimihagi and the Soul King. And after losing both Arms of Stagnation and Evolution the Soul King lost the ability to evolve or regress. Even more evidence given to us by the light novel.

Given that the definition almost fits Mimihagi we can discuss who scales. Mimihagi obviously, Prime Soul King and Yhwach with Mimihagi absorbed.

This was already discussed here, I believe.

Warren Valion said:

This was already discussed here, I believe.

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That's type 4.

Warren Valion said:

This was already discussed here, I believe.

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I added onto what Imade stated and the definition for type 2 AE changed quite a bit.

I personally think this makes sense, let's see what staff says.

Im not sure. Not having a future makes sense since the Almighty cant view Mimihagi's future, however what evidence actually proves Mimihagi doesnt have a past?

From my experience, a more explicit statement for Acausality (Type 2) is needed. So, @The Prince of Counters, can you bring scans from the novel and the manga to back up your arguments because depending on the evidemces, I could agree with the OP?

Elizhaa said:

From my experience, a more explicit statement for Acausality (Type 2) is needed. So, @The Prince of Counters, can you bring scans from the novel and the manga to back up your arguments because depending on the evidemces, I could agree with the OP?

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scans such as?

I'll need a moment to gather scans as I'm somewhat busy at the moment but yes there are in depth explanations.

@Sigurd Snake in The Eye, @The Prince of Counters stated in the OP that the LN provided additional evidence. I never read the LN so I need evidences like quote or scans from chapters with evidence relevant to this thread before I can agree.

Besides, there are Discussion Rules about providing evidences for CRT:

• When arguing for changing character statistics, do not assume that the staff will have in-depth knowledge about the fictional franchise in question. Make sure to explain your suggestions in a structured manner that is easy to comprehend. You will not be allowed to change any statistics if people cannot understand what you mean.
• To reiterate, when creating content revision threads, it is best to keep your suggestions as structured and simple to understand as possible, so the staff will have an easier time evaluating the text. Avoid writing upgrade threads mainly based on assumptions from a limited amount of information, with no additional context or evidence to support them.

The Prince of Counters said:

I'll need a moment to gather scans as I'm somewhat busy at the moment but yes there are in depth explanations.

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I am willing to wait.

After doing some more research into the statements from the light novel theres more evidence for the Soul King and Soul King absorbed Yhwach possessing type 2 AE.

"But the Tsunayashiro ancestor doubted even this non-resistance. Afraid of the Rei-o escaping from his seal by himself; he neither wanted the Rei-o to live nor did he want to kill him. Continuing this helix of contradictions, the Right Arm of 'stagnation' and the Left Arm of 'Progress' were torn off." During that age, all of creation was in a state of ambiguity. There was neither life nor death; progression and regression flickered to and fro. Swaying and swaying slowly; this waning and waxing world waited for a hundred million years to cool down. Eventually, Hollows became a part of the circulation of souls... But before long, Hollows began devouring humans. And so, the circulation ceased. All those souls came together to form a gigantic Hollow, a Menos. The world became completely still. But you know, it's a strange thing. A new life came into being. As if the world itself naturally rejected it, he destroyed it and turned it into sands of reishi; thus, circulation began once again."


Now I'll post what Imade said awhile ago regarding this topic.

The Soul King was a being not of life nor death while also not stagnant nor advancement. It was not of life nor death given that the concepts did not exist until the Soul King made those concepts possible later on. All of this circling back to Yhwach as he took in the Soul King for himself including the Right and Left Arms. He became the Soul King after doing so. Having Stagnation and Advancement while also not of life nor death

Most of the evidence for Mimihagi is given to us though the Manga but the Light Novel does expand on how he governs Stagnation and how Pernida governs Evolution. Mimihagi has no past nor future as his entire purpose is to never progress or regress instead to always remain the same in the present,whereas Pernida is the opposite. I think there's more than enough evidence to give Soul King & Mimihagi absorbed Yhwach, the Soul King and Mimihagi type 2 acausality given how they meet the criteria for it. Even adding it has a likely. I don't think its get more detailed than this as the Manga and the light novel both heavily suggest for this to be the case.

It has this quote too, I believe this will help ..


''Mimihagi-sama, the Right Arm of the Rei-o, whom Captain Ukitake had accepted into his body when he was young.

-Pernida Parnkgjas, a Quincy, was the Left Arm of the Rei-o.

-If the Right Arm governed 'stagnation' and the Left Arm governed 'progress', then why did the Rei-o lose both?

-That means the Rei-o is neither 'stagnant', nor is he 'advancing'. That means he is in between the 'static' and the 'dynamic'.

Hisagi's mind now turned to the fragment of a speech Aizen had uttered when he had defected from the Soul Society.

The problem however is that just because everything came to an abrupt halt, and never progress or regress, doesnt mean that there was never a beginning or "past" for them.

Even in the bolded paragraph, time is clearly stated to have proceeded (100 million years for the world to cool down), so that means there has to be a beginning for Mimiagi, which would mean he has a past.

so that means there has to be a beginning for Mimiagi, which would mean he has a past.


You do realize Mimihagi is the hand of the soul king correct? They existed before the universe was even a thing, regardless Mimihagi is the supporting evidence. The Soul King has a much better arguement for his type 2 Acausality.

if he can not regress or progress, does not that mean he exists only in the present, unable to go back or move forward? That is, he would still be living the present even in the past. That point about the mutilation of the king of souls is his creation and beginning as being stagnant. Sorry if what I said was not clear.

Sorry for the question that has nothing to do with the subject but the Soul King being between the static and dynamic is considered a transduality?

no not transduality lol

I understand, is that from what I read about transduality, the status of Soul King is similar but if it is not the case then let it go.

It makes sense, in a way. That would not apply to Aizen Transcendent - God ? would not it? He was not affected by the Dangai's time chains, which could be something similar.

It was said that Soul King appeared out of nowhere like if the old world (where life & death concepts didn't exist) rejected him all of a sudden and he appeared.

AppleLord said:

It was said that Soul King appeared out of nowhere like if the old world (where life & death concepts didn't exist) rejected him all of a sudden and he appeared.

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Wait, can you link the evidences. @FuuHouHou?

@Elizhaa Here it's the source just in case.

Reiokyu:- "The Tsunayashiro ancestor was a man with power; however, he was more suspicious than anyone else."

Thus spoke the monk; in front of the repeatedly affixed seal. The rest of the members of the Zero Division were gathered around him; silently listening to the story.

They were not the only ones present there, in front of what was both a throne as well as an altar. There were others who had recently joined as soldiers. The previous soldiers who guarded the temple had been killed by Pernida and the other members of Yhwach's Schutzstaffel; so it had been necessary to replace them.

Atop the throne, was 'sealed' the remains of Yhwach. The new soldiers, who were informed that this was the current Rei-o, were extremely confused. 'Looking at' the riot going on in the Kyogoku, the monk thought that perhaps this was a good opportunity for them to learn the Soul Society's secrets. After discovering that the soldiers guarding the Phoenix Palace had been violated, the monk had asked Oetsu and the others to assemble so that they could all delve into the past.

"During that age, all of creation was in a state of ambiguity. There was neither life nor death; progression and regression flickered to and fro. Swaying and swaying slowly; this waning and waxing world waited for a hundred million years to cool down. Eventually, Hollows became a part of the circulation of souls."

The monk spoke in a matter-of-fact tone; quietly reminiscing about the world that existed before the birth of Hueco Mundo and the World of the Living.

"But before long, Hollows began devouring humans. And so, the circulation ceased. All those souls came together to form a gigantic Hollow, a Menos. The world became completely still. But you know, it's a strange thing. A new life came into being. As if the world itself naturally rejected it, he destroyed it and turned it into sands of reishi; thus, circulation began once again."

"That was the Rei-o of the first era...?"

One of the new recruits involuntarily whispered; but he hurriedly closed his mouth for fear of having said something profane. But '''the monk nodded and told him not to worry.'''

"That's right. Others; with special powers, including myself; appeared, but it is fair to say that Rei-o stood out; his powers very close to omnipotence and omniscience."

The monk paused, recalling the former Rei-o who had already disappeared from this throne.

"As the Rei-o continued to protect the world from the Hollows by annihilating them; to prevent the world from stagnating, the world itself began to slowly sink into chaos."

The monk went on, stroking his beard.

"However, there were those who did not find this state of affairs agreeable. There were five of them. Although not as much as the Rei-o; they were strong. They were the original founders of the Five Great Noble Houses, including the Shiba family."

The monk told them.

Each of them had different motives.

The Tsunayashiro ancestor was afraid that this mighty power would someday be used against them.

The ancestor of the opposing clan said that it was necessary to have a world that would serve as the lid to cover up the 'pit' that would later be known as 'Hell'.

The Kuchiki ancestor believed that a new order was necessary to solidify the world more.

The Shihoin ancestor said that it was necessary to form a larger circulation to advance the stagnant world.

And the Shiba ancestor wanted to explore the path of purification of Hollows rather than destruction; since they too had hearts. But their widely varying motives strangely led to the same goal in the end; to split the world. A world of order, a world of implementation, also a paradise of sand where Hollows from two sides would end up in.

Perhaps another form of the world would be born, but the essential thing was the clear separation the world of the 'living' from the world of the 'dead'.

In order to turn this division into a reality, what was required was the power of a man who transcended everything.

"Although the Shiba ancestor tried to talk the Tsunayashiro ancestor out of it, it is said that the Rei-o was tied up and sealed within the crystal. The rest of Soul Society's history was witnessed directly by myself."

A man who was later named the Rei-o.

Using his powers of the Almighty as the 'keystone', the five of them created the foundation of a new world. Soul Society, the Material World and Hueco Mundo. Life and death were separated. The Soul Cycle ushered in a new era.

And then, one day, the ones who managed the Soul Society, came to be known as 'Shinigami's'.

"Perhaps it was because he could see the far-flung future.... Maybe he could not escape his fear; or maybe he found some hope in the new world.... I don't really understand... But the Rei-o dared not resist it."

The monk lowered his eyes and then repeated his first words. "But the Tsunayashiro ancestor doubted even this non-resistance. Afraid of the Rei-o escaping from his seal by himself; he neither wanted the Rei-o to live nor did he want to kill him. Continuing this helix of contradictions, the Right Arm of 'stagnation' and the Left Arm of 'Progress' were torn off."

The recruits drew in sharp breaths. The four members of the Zero Division, except for the monk, had unfathomable expressions on their faces; but they remained silent.

The monk then stated a cruel fact in a flat tone as if he was talking about the weather.

"Well; I suppose that still wasn't enough. The ancestors; including Tsunayashiro; gouged out his heart and internal organs; and dismembered both his legs. Doing so, they destroyed his power; creating a king convenient for themselves."

Upon hearing the monk's tale; Shutara Senjumaru, who had remained silent until then, opened her mouth with a smile. But that smile was heavy with traces of insurrection.

"Convenient indeed. He continues to remain the lynchpin without ever having a say in the workings of this world, while the real business is carried out by others."

The others all nodded at her words. But the monk said, "Oh, he most certainly had a will of his own. It might have faded with the passage of time, but I think he was aware of the general situation and thus guided Kurosaki Ichigo here to the Reiokyu. This shows that he possessed his own will. I could feel it. If the bone is the Oken, then a part of his soul is entrusted to this Reiokyu." Actually, long ago, the Right Arm and the Left Arm of the Rei-o did find their way back to the Reiokyu along with their respective 'wills'. The Right Arm had been enshrined within the Soul Society as a protector of this world, whereas the Left Arm as a Quincy under Yhwach's influence; was meant to restore this world back. As if agreeing with the monk's words, Tenjiro Kirinji raised his voice, his toothpick going up and down.

"Bloodline will always tell. The boy from the House of Shiba was supposed to be the next Rei-o. It's interesting." "The Shiba ancestor did rebel against the Tsunayashiro ancestor for sealing the Rei-o by force. He tried to find a way to sacrifice himself instead of the Rei-o. I had hoped that the sinless would be exempt from the other crimes."

"Ho..! That mentality certainly fits the House of Shiba." "In a sense, it was a most foolish thing for him to do. If he had not failed to persuade; then he would have had to prepare himself to be the cornerstone of the three worlds. It's ironic, really. The Shiba bloodline was allowed to thrive only because the Tsunayashiro ancestor decided to seal the Rei-o."

Hikifune Kirio shrugged her ample shoulders, thinking about the past.

"I remember Kaien-kun. He was like that too."

"And so, the Shiba ancestor was erased from history by the House of Tsunayashiro." The monk sighed, staring up at the ceiling.

"But when the descendant, Ichigo appeared, possessing all the qualities that made him fit to replace the Rei-o, I really thought that history was repeating itself. Perhaps the world needs someone like him."

As the monk's story drew to a close, he saw the pale, ashen faces of the newcomers. They were looking at each other nervously. But the Zero Division understood. The monk's words could also be interpreted this way: That is; the history of the Shinigami is built on far more cruel sins than murder and that the crime is being committed even today.

Elizhaa said:

AppleLord said:

It was said that Soul King appeared out of nowhere like if the old world (where life & death concepts didn't exist) rejected him all of a sudden and he appeared.

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Wait, can you link the evidences. @FuuHouHou?

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Well, the density of time in the Dangai is completely different where the worlds are. Literally, getting in touch with the Kototsu can throw you into another time (past or future), very far from your original, until you get lost in time. Aizen not only touched him, but completely destroyed the existence of Kototsu, and suffered no change in time.

(When I get home, I'll put the scans. I ask you to wait a moment.)

@FuuHouHou, I am willing to wait.

I quite certain anything regarding the topic was already posted by the OP.

I really saw a case for Type 2 Acausality, to be honest. But after reading more, I think Type 2 Acausality could be likely. I would also highlighted if the Soul King and Minihagi existed before the universe then they should Acausality Type 1 too; Yhwach would also scale as well from absorbing these characters.

idk about them existing before the "universe", this already existed. He just changed the world into something different.

Hmm so what would you suggest Elizhaa? I think theres plenty of evidence for type 2 Acausality at the very least.

FuuHouHou said:

Well, the density of time in the Dangai is completely different where the worlds are. Literally, getting in touch with the Kototsu can throw you into another time (past or future), very far from your original, until you get lost in time. Aizen not only touched him, but completely destroyed the existence of Kototsu, and suffered no change in time.

(When I get home, I'll put the scans. I ask you to wait a moment.)

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This however can always just be Aizen being resistant to Temporal BFR.

Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:

idk about them existing before the "universe", this already existed. He just changed the world into something different.

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He created another and it was at that moment that he lost his arms and the rest of the body was ripped out later, it was he who started the world of the living, Soul society, Dangai and the others. But you have the point, the old world existed before the Soul King.

That is something that needs to be discussed in the thread IMade makes, for now it doesn't have anything to do with what the OP wishes to add.

Sig is correct, Imade will handle the Soul Kings Separation stuff.

Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:

That is something that needs to be discussed in the thread IMade makes, for now it doesn't have anything to do with what the OP wishes to add.

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I agreed and depending on how it went he could have proved Acausality Type 4. Moreover, it is harder to prove Acausality Type 2 than Acausality Type 4.

Kaltias rejected type 4.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2762106

It seems there is more evidence for 2 in comparsion to 4.

Type 2 is safe than type 4 due to 4 being more complex but I'd also be fine with type 4.

I do not understand much of the subject, but it seems to have evidence about type 2, I agree with that.

Elizhaa said:

@FuuHouHou, I am willing to wait.

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Here's Scan I think he's referring to.

http://avidlivestock.com/bleach/407/4

http://www.avidlivestock.com/bleach/408/4

Elizhaa said:

@FuuHouHou, I am willing to wait.

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This one . If you need anything else, or have questions, just talk.

ProfessorKukui4Life said:

FuuHouHou said:

Well, the density of time in the Dangai is completely different where the worlds are. Literally, getting in touch with the Kototsu can throw you into another time (past or future), very far from your original, until you get lost in time. Aizen not only touched him, but completely destroyed the existence of Kototsu, and suffered no change in time.

(When I get home, I'll put the scans. I ask you to wait a moment.)

Click to expand...

This however can always just be Aizen being resistant to Temporal BFR.

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It may be, but it was very specific. Another hypothesis for this is that the Soul King was called the "Man Who Transcends Everything". Maybe Ichibei was referring to being beyond Hollows and Souls, so Aizen might be somehow catching up with his evolutions