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Marvel Comics revisions: High 6-C to 5-A

Well, given that the Vision (Marvel Comics) and Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) should probably scale from the Grey Hulk, I think that this seems to make sense. However, we would have to figure out whether or not this is appropriate for all the characters of a similar power level, such as Iron Ma.

I would appreciate if somebody would be willing to ask the following members to comment here:

Matthew Schroeder, Sandman31, Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, Ryukama, Reppuzan, Shivansh Garg, KLOL506, Zensum, TheC2, Nether nine, Crimson Azoth, Eficiente, Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan, The Archdemon, Sera EX, Kepekley23, Huesito88.
 
Yes. The question is if we should ignore that and Carol Danvers' meteor feat, and scale them from the Grey Hulk instead.
 
I don't have a problem scaling Carol to Grey Hulk. I mean she pretty much took him down and made him go Green Hulk. I also have no problem scaling Vision to this either. His feats do show him punching quite a bit above his current rating.

Now scaling Iron Man's Model 9 armor to 5-A is different:

1. As Weekly pointed out, Iron Man's got his rating from a feat he preformed. Upgarding that introduces us to some complications.

2. Model 9 is not as advanced as say Model 45 and not as powerful going by their own feats. Tony's technology is constantly improving. We know this. If we upgrade a suit with lesser technology and ignore the feat that gave it that rating, we kind have to do that with his more advanced suit, I would think. It shouldn't be inferior to a model so far down the line from it.

3. Upgrading the Model 9 suit also upgrades Iron Patriot Norman Osbor as we hold him comparable to the Model 9 armor. Carol can oneshot this armor. While holding back. She even states that she could've killed him with that one strike if she had chosen to.

Based on that, I don't think we should upgrade Iron Man, unless his armor has other consistent feats to back it up.
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. I suppose that makes sense. Would you be willing to check through the following pages to see which of them that need to be updated?
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/S...tegory:Tier+6&limit=100&wpSubmit=Find+matches
Click to expand...
Sure. Would've had this done sooner but I had fallen asleep. Ok, going through them:

Angela- We put her in the same league as Carol, so she'll get bumped up to 5-A.

Captain Marvel- As stated, it's fine to bump her up to 5-A. Anyone who is comparable to her will get the same treatment.

Gambit- His Horseman of Death key gets upgraded due to being superior to Rogue, who should be comparable to Carol. Making him at least 5-A.

Hank Pym- Giant Man key is comparable to Carol.

Icema- I wouldn't scale him, he has his own feats, which even scale above this.

Iron Ma- Not getting upgraded.

Latveria- I can't see why it would scale. It has it's own feats.

Loki- He's from the Ultimate Universe which has completely different levels of power and their own scaling. As such, don't see why he should scale.

M.O.D.O.K- Due to overpowering Carol, he should have 'At least Large Planet Level' and we can drop him stalemating Iron Man, who is no longer relevant for M.O.D.O.K's justification.

Mandari- Iron Man villian and scales to him. No upgrade.

Moonstone- Comparable to Carol, so 5-A.

Norman Osbor- Iron Patriot key scales to Iron Man. No upgrade.

Rogue- She copied Carol's powers and should be comparable to her. So upgrade to 5-A.

Sunfire- He should actually recieve an upgrade to both his keys. He fought Namor in long, drawn out fight in his weaker key. So he should 5-A while being comparable to Namor.

Thanos, The Thing & Thor- All from the Ultimate Universe with thier own scaling. No upgrade.

Vision- Already agreed to be upgraded to 5-A.

War Machine- Scales to Iron Man, so no upgrade.

There's also one other Marvel character who scales into 5-A:

Vulca- Ultimately, he was able to fight and injure Black Bolt as seen here. Naturally, Vulcan's profile will need some more work as he has some other feats of his own for his travel speed and powers, but his scaling take priority for now.

Final Tally: Angela, Captain Marvel, Gambit, Hank Pym, M.O.D.O.K, Moonstone, Rogue, Sunfire, Vision & Vulcan need to be upgraded.
 
Okay. That seems fine, but you should ask Matthew Schroeder, Sandman31, Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, Ryukama, Reppuzan, Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan, Sera EX, and Kepekley23 to comment here first, so we do not act in an ill-considered manner.
 
You should also use appropriate examples from the threads linked in the beginning of this one when revising Carol and The Vision.
 
I am still uncertain about if Iron Man should truly not be upgraded though, as his armors have officially not grown all that much physically stronger over the years, just more advanced in other ways.
 
Antvasima said:
I am still uncertain about if Iron Man should truly not be upgraded though, as his armors have officially not grown all that much physically stronger over the years, just more advanced in other ways.
Click to expand...
That's why we need some more people to look this over. This is a good deal of profiles we'd be changing, Iron Man upgrade or no.

I'll reach out the people you've listed and we'll see from there. Really, all we can do at this point.
 
We cannot be too liberal with scaling everyone to a single 5-A feat.

Disagree with scaling so many people to Grey Hulk.
 
But they are officially supposed to be comparable to him, and we currently end up with massive power gaps otherwise.
 
There's also this consider: the reason that this change is so big is not only the scaling to Grey Hulk but because Captain Marvel, in particular, is also a benchmark in our scaling. A good deal of these characters scale to her.

Carol has decent argument because she laid Grey Hulk out in several blows and she oneshots characters to who scale to Iron Man Model 9 while holding back. Rogue copied her powers.

Then we have the characters who scale above Grey Hulk: Namor, the Thing and Black Bolt. Anyone who can hang with them in a serious fight, have a chance to scale.

That's Sunfire (potentially) and almost definitely Vulcan.
 
@Matthew

Hmm, well to be fair we kinda do that with virtually every other verse. I know, I know this is Marvel which is more inconsistent than Pokemon in terms of powerscaling but I think general powerscaling still applies, we just have to take into consideration that outliers are very much more common here than in most other verses.
 
Antvasima said:
But they are officially supposed to be comparable to him, and we currently end up with massive power gaps otherwise.
Click to expand...
We can get rid of those power gaps by recognizing Grey Hulk's feat for being the outlier that it is. It obviously causes plenty of issues with scaling.
 
We can get rid of those power gaps by recognizing Grey Hulk's feat for being the outlier that it is. It obviously causes plenty of issues with scaling.

Legitimately this. If the High 6-C scaling works relatively fine, but then we suddenly get a freaking 5-A feat, it's safe to say it's an outlier.
 
Well, The Thing has some 5-B feats, and Thor, Binary, Sentry, and the Silver Surfer have 4-B feats. I think that the scaling turns more neatly organised this way.
 
If we're really removing Grey Hulk's feat due to being outlier then Thing, Namor and Black Bolt go down to 5-B and all of this goes away.

The only things left to deal with:

Sunfire: We have him fighting Namor as a feat and justification for his AP. I'll assume that's an outlier. If so, him fighting Namor has got to go because it makes his profile send mix signals. I'll also, he's not 5-B.

Vulcan: I have another thread going for him but it ties into this as I have him scaling to Black Bolt. If Black Bolt gets downgraded, it would just change the proposal for most of his stats from 5-A to 5-B.
 
I still think that downgrading all of the 5-A Marvel characters to High 6-C seems like a bad idea, as the gap to 4-B would be far too wide. This was the best solution that I could come up with in this case.
 
What if we just deem Carol's feat of punching out Grey Hulk as the outlier? Most of the characters getting upgraded come from scaling to her, not from Grey Hulk himself.

EDIT: I'm just saying. Carol taking out Grey Hulk would have jumped her (and a lot of others) 9 tiers in retrospect. That seems a little much.
 
The characters in question are officially comparable to the Grey Hulk as well, according to the Marvel handbooks (he is only class 70), and The Vision has fought Wonder Man, and knocked out Count Nefaria (Marvel Comics) by dropping on him from orbit.

Then again, according to the Marvel handbooks Sandman (Marvel Comics) and Rhino (Marvel Comics) are also stronger than the Grey Hulk, and Spider-Man is sometimes able to handle them, so I don't really know the best course of action.
 
The Thing has some 5-B feats of his own and I think some other lesser characters also have feats on that level. Colossus has one last I checked.
 
Antvasima said:
But they are officially supposed to be comparable to him, and we currently end up with massive power gaps otherwise.
Click to expand...
Doesn't Iron Man have High 6-A feats. And some other characters as well. To me it seems obvious that we need something between High 6-C and 5-A
 
@Ant

I think on that front, we take it like we take WoG statements. We use it if it makes sense.

If they say Character A is comparable to Character B but B has feats that put them way above A, then we have to take that statement with a grain of salt.

I mean, we have a version of Hyperio who is listed as a Class 100 in terms of strength by the handbook, IIRC. Yet he has a legitmate feat of holding back two planets from colliding. Way beyond Marvel's rating.

Or Blue Marvel, who's listed as a Supersonic in terms of speed but can keep up with the like of the Sentry, who Marvel lists as Warp Speed.

Even further, if you want an example from outside of Marvel. George Lucas said that Darth Vader matches to 8/10ths of Darth Sidious ' power but we know that Vader is vastly inferior to Sidious based on feats.

At some point, especially with Marvel, we have to look at what they're saying versus what the actual characters are doing.
 
Yes, but that is easier said than done, given that their showings against each other and in general vary so much.
 
Anyway, the problem is that officially there is no great difference between, for example, The Vision and Wonder Man. The latter is stronger, yes, but not overwhelmingly so.
 
So how should we best solve this issue?
 
Help would be very appreciated.
 
I don't know what to do. I mean Iron Man has High 6-A feats if we can do anything with those. Unless there's any major opposition, I see no issue in just upgrading those that logically apply to 5-A. Again if there's any major opposition I'd like to hear it.
 
Well certainly our current Tier 6 characters are weaker than Tier 5 ones, but not that much.

If there are High 6-A feats they would probably be good to scale to.
 
They might be possible to scale from Iron Man, yes.
 
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