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Clockwork vs Mogura

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For one, her potentially killing first, second, Nothing stops him. He doesn't have the Intel to know why his attacks are being retroactively erased, so he will need to figure it out before he successfully pulls it off in a way that doesn't get negged
 
1. Why did you give her Intel.

2. Time Stop isn't really an "attack", it's not a physical weapon so it isn't going to be erased like that guys nail. Also, is her ability passive or does she need to think. Lastly she can negate something on a low multiversal to possibly Multiversal+ scale?.

3. Kill him. I hope you know Danny Phantom ghosts are already dead right?. What in her arsenal can kill him?, Death Manipulation is useless unless she has been shown killing dead beings with it. Other than that I don't see what she has that can kill him.

4. Even if it negates it, Clockwork's abilities effects those who wear Specter Deflectors. A Specter Deflector is a device that completely negates the effects of a ghosts abilities. Rendering their effects null to the point where it never happened.

Example: when Sam was first introduced with the Specter Deflector she wished she never meet Danny. Desiree granted said wish and made it so. Everyone was effected by this, Danny didn't know who Sam was, neither did Tucker nor anyone knew. Danny never got his ghost powers, no ghost ever appeared yet because the ghost portal was never opened.

However, not only was Sam completely unaffected by the wish, everything that was apart of 'her history wasn't effected, like her book of memories. All the photos in said book were untouched by the wish. This means the Spectrer Deflector completely negated, blocked, nullfied however you want to put it, the effects said wish that altered history as tho it never happened.

Clockwork can effect the likes of Tucker, who around this time was wearing a Specter Deflector underneath his shirt.

Anyway, I'm about to go to sleep, gotta get up early and go watch my niece, see y'all tomorrow.
 
1. So that she knows that her only way to put him down is Death

2. She erases actions as well. It is passive, and her powers don't work on the axis of strength but instead reciprocation

3. Styles can work on the undead, and since souls aren't a thing in Medaka Box so it would make no distinction between the dead and the undead, yes it would definitely work

4. Styles bypass conventional resistence, since the only resistence that really matters to a style user is the resistence to empathic manipulation, or the inability to understand the user

Have a good night my dude
 
1. So you gave her Intel to try and give her a quick win?. Don't see the point in that since your assuming she negates everything he throws at her.

2. I find that hard to believe but sure, I'll deal with it.

3. Do you have a scan that proves all styles work on undead?. Also just because souls don't exist in a verse does not mean moves will instantly work, that foolish.

Also Death Manipulation is still useless even if it could work because another Clockwork will bring him back.

4. Again, do you have a scan that states all styles bypass conventional resistance?. Regardless, Clockwork has resistances to Empathy Manipulation.

I would also like to know how she was defeated in the verse.
 
1. I gave her Intel because she needs to know her options are limited. Simply declaring a phrase wont let her use her powers, she needs to use the words in a natural point in dialogue. She needs to know that if clockwork raises his voice that may be her only opportunity to win. It will basically be a race for him to figure out how her powers work and her to get an opening in the conversation for her to have him drop dead

3. They work based on reciprocation, and as long as they have a mind, one style being able to properly work on an intelligent undead should allow all of them to since they work on the same principle. I had discussed it with other staff members, and they said that if we assume soul based attacks will work on someone whose verse does not have souls, then we should assume that the verses attacks will also equalise to be able to deal with such beings

4. They bypasses the omni immunity of Iihiko, so they work on the resistences of the powers they use. He resist empathic manip? Well shit. What was the empathetic manip he resisted like?
 
1. But with Clockwork's Precognition he won't bother opening his mouth to talk to her because he'll see how her abilities work.

2. Ok then, I guess that's acceptable. Still tho, a past Clockwork will simply save him.

3. His resistance stems from ghosts being completely unaffected by Ember McLain's music which has Mind Manipulation and Empathy Manipulation. Her powers work off of those who he are her music and while we don't usually scale range to potency, Ember can control all everyone that was cought with her music or make them feel what she wants them to even if she's not playing music. Her influence stays inside the target once they hear her music. Thus the reason why she only had to really play her song once and all the kids at school began to listen to her music non stop.

So while she only can control the amount of people that can hear her music, once they hear it, she can make all of them do what she wants. Danny while in his human form was completely unaffected by her music and at that time, sha hand all the teenagers in Amity Park under her control, then after they said her name enough times the power of her music grew to the point where it effected him. She also took control of Amity Park's female population, Kitty and Penelope Spectra didn't even register her music's effect.

Danny was also completely unaffected by Pussycat's passive Empathy Manipulation which cought everyone in the movie theater and she was even going to effect everyone around the world. Ghosts powers give you resistance to the likes of Empathy Manipulation that can effect entire towns and possibly beyond.
 
1. Damn, I guess her only option would be to make him yell in pain or something then. I guess the only way he would be able to get around her power is to have her not be the one intended to be taken by the attack. Any moves that come to mind there?

2. Well, perhaps she can use Combine All to use one of his own abilities to put him down

3. I see. Styles work a bit differently than that. If you understand the feeling behind the words, or at least the meaning of them, then you get effected by the style. They are essentially weaponised writing styles if that makes sense. I think they would still work as long as he doesn't have some kind of berserk mode
 
1. So if she isn't the intended target, a move can effect her?.

2. If she's using Clockwork's powers then I doubt it because he's unaffected by his own time stop but she'll be in the same time zone like him so maybe but I'm not 100% on that. She could use his time travel to go and kill the oldest Clockwork and see if that works but they aren't just going to stand there and let her destroy them.

3. Well the Ghost Writer uses words to control reality and when he enraged all the ghosts to cause them to go into a blind fury, they stopped.

This was thought to be because Danny stopped the Ghost Writer from writing however it's revealed that the plot control was still going on it's own without the need of the Ghost Writer. So they had to stop themselves otherwise they would have continued to fight. Showing resistance to his writing Empathy Manipulation.
 
1. Her Style converts "Confrontation" into "Nothing." Combat as a whole is generall called confrontation, but if your intention is not to do her any wrong doing like damage or incapacitation, then you potentially could effect her. Passive abilities are the easiest way, but if, say, your intention was to destroy something else and she happened to be in the cross fire, then she potentially could be harmed

2. Is he uneffected in the way that DIO is? like he can move only because he is the one who stopped it?

3. Would you mind showing a clip of this? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Its been a long while since I saw Danny Phantom, and all I remember of this episode was the orange thing
 
1. Ok

2. Clockwork isn't stuck in the normal flow of time. As he states, for him time moves forward and backwards, he was going to say more but he decided it was a waste of time. Don't know if he can be effected by another's time stop but like I've said before, if she's use Clockwork's (this very Clockwork she's fighting) powers I don't think they would work.

3. You are correct, Danny finds an orange and it causes the ghost writer to get writers block, and the ghosts shake off the rage. However when Danny put the Ghost Writer in the back of the police truck he reveals the story is still going on. Maybe it was the plot just changing itself?, I won't us it as a feat then as it's just a possiblity.

We Guess I'll give a proper vote now. Replying back and forth like this is taking up the thread.
 
2. I see. Perhaps it would be inconclusive because it is unknown if the time stop would work or not

3. Ok, so the styles may work then

Whom do you wish to vote for? Don't worry about taking up the thread
 
I vote for Clockwork.

Clockwork sees everything and won't bother speaking, "Death" is unless because another Clockwork can easily reverse time and save him. "Cage" is useless because he can travel through Time and Dimensions. "Combined All" doesn't really help given I doesn't last forever and she wouldn't really gain anything to take him down and anything she did to him would be undone either by his Regenerationn or his past selves. If she tries to go after his past versions using his time travel it will result in the same thing as the present one.

She could avoid this by having his Precognition but she will just see that it's a waste of time to chase after them. Especially since the ability doesn't last forever, meaning if she travels through time and losses his powers, she would have BFR'd herself so she isn't getting anything good from his abilities.

Now comes the hardest part of the match, "Word Conversation". This is her real saving grace, however I'm still unsure if this can save her.

The ability is negating/erasing any confrontation/action against her. So in the sense, Clockwork freezing time as a whole as his action isn't against her specifically. This apparently cannot be used regardless because winning via freezing all of time is not legit. However he simply can just fast forward time as a whole which would passively result in her dying of old age. He never took any action directly against her, just moving the flow of time forward.

I am also still unsure if she can negate his powers because of the whole empathy thing and the Specter Deflector acting similar to her ability but still didn't work against Clockwork.

HOWEVER!!! let's agree and say Clockwork cannot effect her period. Aiming at something else doesn't work, all of it doesn't work, she negates his actions against her as I can see it's impossible for me to say it will work at all. Clockwork has one thing that would keep this fight from being inconclusive and that is... "Find out on the next exciting episode of Dragon Ball Z" lol just fooling around.

It's the fact that Clockwork is immortal, he doesn't age, she does. Even if she can copy his powers it isn't permanent. In the long run Clockwork will win via outlasting her.
 
I would like to point out that intention matters here. If he is not trying to do her harm, then the things will work, but if he stops time as a way to do her harm, or fast forward time as a way to harm her, then they will fail. As an example, she has a good match against Black Panther going because, he has moves that he uses to avoid confluct that will work. If, for example, it is in character for him to stop time because he doesn't want to harm her, then that would work fine

Btw, do you have clips of a past self saving him? I don't remember that in the original show but it has been a long time
 
His past selves showed up in the exact moment in time so they could all scar Danny into jumping into the portal Clockwork left open.

They all are him, so they can see the future as well and knew to come to that exact moment to help present Clockwork string Danny along. I don't see why they would just let the present one die/get destroyed. When they are him, he is them. He'll be saving himself which isn't outside help.

Here are the images of them showing up when they needed to.

Clockwork is everywhere
Clockwork's is everywhere
 
I see. So Mogura could potentially defeat them as well, good to know. That at least gives her a win condition so it isn't a stomp
 
This thread made me wonder if it wouldn't be more accurate to call the power of Style Users like Mogura or Yuzuriha actual Conceptual Manipulation instead of plain Reality Warping.

Other than directly interfering with words and ideas with their effects, Yuzuriha's was outright stated to alter Concepts
Style2
. Same for the Contradiction one which affects directly the Link between notions like Cause and Effect/Supperior Inferior/High Low and so on.
YuzurihaStyle
 
But yeah, Mogura's hax is pretty BS, especially the defensive aspect to it. She lost to Kumagawa because his Minus BM is technically "Wrong from the Start" so whatever she tried to do against it was like trying to put out fire by adding fire - thus rendering her style moot against his power of sealing.

...It's like Mogura lost because she fought the worst possible match-up for her in-verse (out of the main cast only, of course).
 
Oh she's one of those characters who got the short end of the stick and comes across that special person basically designed to defeat them.
 
@Fate

Yeah, I know the metonemy style is definitely conceptual. I'm not sure if the others are. She is basically a gender bent version of Kumagawa and got the same luck, ending up against the one dude in the whole main cast who could defeat her lol
 
That's like, the best definition of Mogura ever. lol But yeah, could be questionable for others. I wonder about it sometimes since styles technically work under the same fundaments/general rules most of the time. Maybe later down the road if I'm not as ded busy as I am atm, I'll try to see if can find any more decisive info for others as well.
 
@Pachi If it's aimed against her, he tries to think against Mogura and his Thought gets converted to Thonk, Tongue, Thorough or something and nothing happens.

She noped AF with that, which is also on thought, without even moving, so.
 
FateAlbane said:
@Pachi If it's aimed against her, he tries to think against Mogura and his Thought gets converted to Thonk, Tongue, Thorough or something and nothing happens.

She noped AF with that, which is also on thought, without even moving, so.
Click to expand...
I know.

Nulling AF is dope. I still think Nienami is za strongest style.
 
@Pachi Nienami was by far one of my favorites. o/

Mmm, I'm not sure. I think it depends on the situation/opponent. From the more practical standpoint, I agree - in every situation but specially against a stronger opponent, Nienami's would be definitely an all around solution. Considering Iihiko being OP, naturally hers would be by far the best bet. But in a fight where you might need to play more defensive, Mogura's might be more suitable (since as shown in the match against Iihiko, you still need to hit your opponent, as he and Zenkichi kept avoiding each others blows as it was a "First one to hit oneshots"). Just a thought, though, not sure.

I also like Momozono, since she has the "Seal with It!" mentality which lets her seal someone or seal them post death to prevent resurrection and is not afraid to use it.
 
FateAlbane said:
@Pachi Nienami was by far one of my favorites. o/

Mmm, I'm not sure. I think it depends on the situation/opponent. From the more practical standpoint, I agree - in every situation but specially against a stronger opponent, Nienami's would be definitely an all around solution. Considering Iihiko being OP, naturally hers would be by far the best bet. But in a fight where you might need to play more defensive, Mogura's might be more suitable (since as shown in the match against Iihiko, you still need to hit your opponent, as he and Zenkichi kept avoiding each others blows as it was a "First one to hit oneshots"). Just a thought, though, not sure.

I also like Momozono, since she has the "Seal with It!" mentality which lets her seal someone or seal them post death to prevent resurrection and is not afraid to use it.
Click to expand...
Hmmmm.

But what if I used her style as in "I surrender, therefore, I win". Ovo
 
Not related to this match but I just found evidence to boost DP ghosts resistance to Empathy Manipulation that passively can effect Hundreds of millions to possibly Billions of people.

It also can go with their Mind Manipulation resistance as well.
 
@Griffin Though the term haxxed wasn't even something I knew in my childhood, Danny Phantom is one of these stories that always struck me as "having eccentric/inventive powers", in the few episodes I got to see between helping with a few house chores and going to school.

Having borderline forgotten the series existed, I'm genuinely amazed to see now that they had a character to this extent of power, however.

This guy's powers are indeed OP levels as well and while her defensive methods are just as bs, the Clockwork's survivability powers are beyond reason for this tier.

Stamina is also a factor here, since I'm not sure if Mogura can keep fighting for the looooooooooooooooooooooooooooong battle of attrition that this may become while his is infinite. So I can actually buy that while even he might have trouble hitting her at all, he can outlast or outright outlive even if they ended up stalling each other for like 90 years or something.
 
@FateAlbane Same here, I didn't really know or even care about "hax" when I was younger watching Danny Phantom. I didn't go back to the series until saw this wiki and joined.

I had a thought "how strong would Danny Phantom be?". I went back and after several threads they are where they are now. I also seem to keep finding things everytime I look back on it.

Like now. I just found out the Ghost Zone naturally can keep ghosts from falling apart even if their Regenerationn got nullified.
 
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