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Ban Midou Vs Hircine

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Im sorry but, does this dude literally like resist nothing?

Also Ban is either n^Infinity (where n is an ungiven number depending on the number of choices there are) or Infinity! both of which are above Infinity^2. We are not sure yet so you guys are gonna have to give me some time. Doubt it's gonna come to it doe.

On a side note, im not one to talk about quality profiles, but is there only 1 key on his "powers and abilities" or am i just missing the line separating the 2 keys.
 
Firephoenixearl, His powers remain the same:

Also, this is basically GOd Tier resistance and Ban is not bypassing Tier 1-A immortality:

Regenerationn (True-Godly. Comparable to other Daedric Princes such as Asura, who could was still able to restore herself despite being totally erased by Vivec when he entered CHIM), Resurrection(As a God, Hircine is unbound by time and can freely resurrect himself should he remain in existence in even a single point in time. As shown with Mehrunes Dagon, Gods can return even after being completely erased from all of Time simultaneously), Acausality (Type 5. Gods and Daedra are eternal and immutable entities who only seem to be linear and bound by cause and consequence because they choose to appear as so)
 
Hircine aspect is just Hircine holding back so he won't instantly kill the Nerevarine so I would image he has the same powers.
 
@Nedge

None of them will help vs ban tbh. Without resistances Ban stomps here. His law just passively says "hah i win" and calls it a day.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
None of them will help vs ban tbh. Without resistances Ban stomps here. His law just passively says "hah i win" and calls it a day.
Click to expand...
Go further.
 
1) how does his Law manipulation even work? Can he even negate True-Godly regen?

2) I would have said "Go deeper", lol.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
@Nedge
None of them will help vs ban tbh. Without resistances Ban stomps here. His law just passively says "hah i win" and calls it a day.
Click to expand...
Hircine also has law hax, so can't he just respond "No"?
 
If I am being fair, Elder Scrolls gods/Daedra on Hircine's level can't really kill each other and have roughly the same abilities. So, Hircine would have resistance to all of his abilities.

You can contact Matthew Schroeder about this opinion since he is a primary expert.
 
Yeah, no. You literally cannot win against Hircine. Even if you somehow destroy or incap his aspect he can instantly spawn another, ad infinitum. The best you can hope for here is inconclusive.
 
DMB 1 said:
1) how does his Law manipulation even work? Can he even negate True-Godly regen?
2) I would have said "Go deeper", lol.
Click to expand...
1) It works by saying "ban wins no matter what". Yes it can because it doesn't need to kill.

2) Almost the same anyway xD

@Overlord

Nah, since it's Passive (Ban) vs Active (Hiricne) so Ban's law wins, no matter how potent Hiricne's law is, it being active makes it useless in this match.
 
Crabwhale said:
Yeah, no. You literally cannot win against Hircine. Even if you somehow destroy or incap his aspect he can instantly spawn another, ad infinitum. The best you can hope for here is inconclusive.
Click to expand...
Passive law says "no, Ban wins", true godly means jack if it's vs something that doesn't induce destruction or kill.
 
Dude, you can't just say "the rules ays that he wins", this isn't a video-game.

You have to specify how can he at least incapacitate him.
 
DMB 1 said:
Yeah, but how does he win? even if the law is passive, he can't possibly take him down.
Click to expand...
Killing is not our only means of win conditions. True Godly and resurrection only take care of "killing", BFR, incap, surrendering etc, all are win conditions. Under the effect of the law, Hiricne just does something that gives Ban the win. True Godly can only do so much, if Hiricine just decides to go home and watch Barney & Friends since they are pretty famous rn in the wiki xD.
 
That's an NLF.

Also, you seem to have ignored my point about incap. Again, as I said, even if you do something that disables his avatar, he can instantly spawn another. Unless you have a way to permanently disconnect them (spoilers: you can't do that), then this is just Inconclusive.
 
DMB 1 said:
Dude, you can't just say "the rules ays that he wins", this isn't a video-game.
You have to specify how can he at least incapacitate him.
Click to expand...
Unknown methods.

"The speed of light cannot be surpassed"

Try to find the "how" in that sentence. Or "Jill haxes her fate so that she wins", it doesn't matter how, when or why, she just will because it is already set in stone that she will. Same case here, Law says "Ban will be the victor" how that's going to be acomplished is unknown to us and everyone else.

But this is a passive hax, there are only 1 way around this: Resistance to this hax. That's just how fate, law etc hax works, don't look at me.
 
Crabwhale said:
That's an NLF.
Also, you seem to have ignored my point about incap. Again, as I said, even if you do something that disables his avatar, he can instantly spawn another. Unless you have a way to permanently disconnect them (spoilers: you can't do that), then this is just Inconclusive.
Click to expand...
The avatar just sits and does nothing causing a win for Ban, because Law says "no you can't". Im serious this is how law hax works. If there is a law that states that something cannot happen then unless you resist this law or have a greater law of your own then there is nothing you can do about it.

It's not NLF. Anything 5D and above just B-Slaps Ban's law, though anything 4D and below that doesn't have anyway to resist it gets owned. Hax needs resistance.
 
Yes, but Hircine's avatar is connected to Hircine himself, which would notice his incap and just respawn or simply say "no u" and negate. It's essentially a 4-D being protected by a 6-D (and likely far above) being.

That's why I say unless you somehow can bypass higher dimensional intervention (which, you can't), you can't do nothing against the avatar that incaps him for long enough.
 
Crabwhale said:
Yes, but Hircine's avatar is connected to Hircine himself, which would notice his incap and just respawn or simply say "no u" and negate. It's essentially a 4-D being protected by a 6-D (and likely far above) being.
That's why I say you somehow can bypass higher dimensional intervention (which, you can't), you can't do nothing against the avatar that incaps him for long enough.
Click to expand...
1) The 6D cannot come to fight himself. This is just the avatars fighting so it's a null point.

2) The 4D avatars are still subdued to the law hax as they are weaker than it and don't resist its effects.

The avatars just stand there unwilling to do anything or unwilling to win or just continuously commit die or something like that, because Law says they cannot win.

Im serious here i've discussed this and "Passive law/fate/probability hax > Active any hax of any level even above the passive hax when no resistances are present". Im not talking randomly here.
 
Yes, but the 6-D is tied to the nature of the avatars in a way that can't be separated.

It's like putting your finger in a tiny aquarium. All the fish can see is this godlike mound of flesh, but it's still connected to the rest of your body, and you can retract and put it back there whenever and however you like. That's how Hircine's avatars operate, meaning you're essentially fighting a 4-D that can be instantly recuperated by a 6-D every time.
 
Overlord775 said:
Don't Deadric princes resist each other's law hax ?
Click to expand...
That would only scale to their true selves either way.

@CrabWhale

Think of this. You're a child in between Muhammad Ali and Chuck Norris. Both casually stomp you. Chuck tells you to do sth, Ali tells you "don't" you can't defy neither, as you are incapable of doing so. Unless Chuck actually goes and beats Ali himself, you, a mere child cannot do anything but just stand in the middle. His true self is 6D, true, it has literally nothing to do with his 4D avatars resisting a much stronger Law.

Long story short, you need resistance to beat hax dude, you need resistance or something much stronger to beat the resistance and not tell you to do sth. A ball of paper thrown by Goku won't pierce rock, even though Goku is MUCH stronger than a rock, the ball of paper isn't, even when having goku's powers, it's still inately too weak.
 
I feel like we're both debating completely different things here tbh. I'm not saying his Law wouldn't work, I'm saying it doesn't matter.

Even if his Hircine's avatar is incap-ed, he will notice, and just spawn another avatar, or reform the current one, or whatever. Hircine's avatar needs to be incap-ed for at least a day before SBA kick in and Ban wins, whereas there is absolutely nothing to prove that Hircine himself can't just instantly un-incap his avatar.

This battle literally has no end. Ban incaps, true Hircine resets and it goes on ad infinitum.
 
Except that's a win for Ban, cus Ban is literally in a state where Hicine's avatar cannot harm him. Ban just stands there and Hircine is getting passively incaped (assumin that happens, cus law can also just make them not move because it hinders Ban's way to victory and there is not much to "un-incap" if he's unable to move due to passive Law continuously saying "don't move"), while Hircine is stuck reviving and coming back or unincaping or stuck and not being able to move.

It's a win condition either way.
 
@Overlord

You'd have to ask Matt.

Seriously, why hasn't anybody gotten him yet?
 
Just saying "'He can't win' Law GG" is not enough.

What does the law do to incap or kill?

Does it weaken the opponent? Does it physically impale him, what?
 
Law just makes it impossible for anything to win vs Ban. It's literally just a law that makes a certain even true or impossible. That's just how law hax works. It's not an attack. Think of someone reducing the probability of you winning to 0. It won't happen no matter what, the ways that the other party is going to win are meaningless as you have no chance to win. Or fate haxing your victory. Unless you resist this hax however it's impossible for you to win, they are not physical or direct attacks, they are indirect ways to win.

An example i already gave is. The avatars just sit there and can't do anything because the law is saying they can't. Like this there are tons of ways the law will accomplish it's goal, though the important and decisive part is that it will as long as the avatars don't resist the law.
 
Hircine has his own law hax, and IIRC, it's tied with his Low 1-C form which would overpower Ban's law would it not?
 
Warren Valion said:
Hircine has his own law hax, and IIRC, it's tied with his Low 1-C form which would overpower Ban's law would it not?
Click to expand...
If it were passive yes, it would causing a stomp in the other direction. In our case, no, because Ban's Law is passive while Hircine has to do his own laws.
 
I'm pretty sure that HIrcine has ways to circumvent that, but I don't really know the Elder Scrolls, get Matt and/or Ultima.
 
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