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We Need to Talk About Ultra Necrozma

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Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

VS Battles
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I'd been putting this off for a while and had kinda forgotten about it, but I figured this needed to be done, eventually.

As you may know, Necrozma is currently rated as 4-B in all of its forms, as are pretty much all Gen VII legendaries. This is from scaling Solgaleo and Lunala to Ultra Necrozma, due to being able to restore Ultra Necrozma's light.

Upgrades happened here.

However, there is a major problem here that I brought up near the bottom of that thread, but that was never followed up on.

Ultra Necrozma's 4-B feat doesn't exist.

For a while, we've rated it at 4-B due to supposedly providing light to an entire universe, but this is an assumption we made when the game came out which was never proven. Or even supported. By like, anything.

I too fell victim to the hype and went along with this, but over time, I realized this was a mistake.

In the very thread used to upgrade everyone via scaling them to Ultra Necrozma, it's shown that when people mention it providing light to a world, they're referring to the planet. This honestly should have been our first assumption.

Considering Ultra Necrozma being 4-B comes from the idea that it simultaneously provided light to an entire universe, this all falls apart when we see that it wore itself out by providing light to individual worlds.

If people want to argue "well, it's probably different in the games", I would like scans explicitly stating that Necrozma lit up whole universes at once, because I can't find any. On the contrary, the anime, which we also take into account for our profiles, suggests something very different.

This would make Ultra Necrozma a much, much lower tier than we initially thought, and it would probably just be better to scale it to legendaries like Zygarde, as this feat wouldn't surpass Zygarde's tier.

In short, we currently have more than 10 pokemon scaled to like a megafoe based on absolutely nothing.
 
Should we even use luminic calcs when talking about magical/supernatural light? Not sure if it apply here, but the calc behind it involve potency and generating heat from a single source.
 
I completely agree with this, this was on my thread schedule but I'd never get around to it. Glad you made this.
 
Makes sense to me. Ant's question above may also want to be considered, for future reference.
 
Antoniofer said:
Should we even use luminic calcs when talking about magical/supernatural light? Not sure if it apply here, but the calc behind it involve potency and generating heat from a single source.
Not really an authority on this, but I assume a case could be made for or against.
 
@Triforce

I was trying to express that was where everyone else was upgraded due to scaling, but I worded it really poorly because I only slept for like three hours.
 
Wait a bit, Type: Null, Silvally, Ultra Beasts, Necrozma forms, Solgaleo and Lunala must scale to 5-B+ scaling to Complete Zygarde or 5-B to Zygarde 50%?
 
I can provide scans, in which it is stated that Necrozma provided energy to multiple worlds throughout Ultra Space and Ultra Wormholes.

But it's pretty late in my country, so tomorrow I guess.
 
We already know he did that, though.

But multiple worlds is multiple planets. Nowhere close to a 4-B feat, especially the level he's currently at.
 
Bump and all that.

This is pretty much unanimous, but we need to decide on exactly what these guys are getting downgraded to.
 
Between 5-B and "At least 5-B", yeah.

I don't know if we only scale them to 50% Zygarde or Complete Zygarde, which would actually make a bit of a difference since the "At least 5-B" for 100% has a + on the end of it.
 
Have they battled or have been stated to be comparable to other 5-B legendaries?.
 
It was suggested that Zygarde showed up because of the UBs, and that's also why it was trying to go 100%.

I believe there is some comment about Zygarde only going 100% if its 50% form can't do something, but I'd need to find it.

This would suggest 50% couldn't deal with the UBs, but we don't really know how they compare to 100%.

I believe this was sort of the reason they were rated as "Possibly 5-B" (or something like that) in the first place.
 
The 6-B feels kinda superfluous to be honest, considering Zygarde tried to fully assemble just to fight off the invading UBs and the fact that they were repeatedly mentioned to be more dangerous than any "normal" pokemon.
 
It is very likely that the classification of the Ultra Beasts may change slightly due to the SM to USUM manga Adventures, it is explicit that Zygarde will fight against the Ultra Beasts in the future, since Zygarde cells are in Alola being reunited by Sun and two people Sycamore sent there
 
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