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7-A+, High 7-A+ and 6-C for some characters (again...)

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Enryu_The_Red_Tower

Enryu_The_Red_Tower

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Well, in chapter 365, Baam was able to survive the Zahard Style: Arir Explosion Iron Fist by casual Zahard, yet I do not see how a Low 7-B manages to survive the hit of a casual 6-C and on top of that Zahard used a special technique and not a normal blow against Baam, and he was able to survive even with serious injuries, Data Zahard praised Baam's attack, while Base Maschenny who is a High 7-A+ was said to be weak, indicating that Baam was stronger than she, so I'm proposing new tiers for some characters:

Baam (Name Hunt Station Arc): At least 7-A+, likely higher (Although it is weaker than its Power of Souls version, it must have been stronger because of training with the God of Guardians), High 7-A+ with Thorn Boost (Stronger than its previous version it that could briefly contented 3 Soul Merged Hoaqin. Fought and defeated Lo Po Bia Elaine)

Baam (Hell Train Arc/Dallar Show Arc): At least 7-A+, likely higher (Should not be weaker by not using Thorn Boost. Comparable or superior to Koon Ran in Base), High 7-A+ with Thorn Boost (Manages to fight on an equal with those who hurt him, briefly contented 3 Soul Merged Hoaqin. Must be comparable to Data Koon Maschenny Zahard in Base)

Baam (Floor of Death Arc/Hidden Floor Arc (Pre-Training)): At least 7-A+, likely higher (Stronger than before ever since he trained with the God of Guardians for 1 month), High 7-A+ (Stronger than before, should be superior to Data Koon Mashcenny Zahard in Base)

Baam (Power of Souls): 6-C (It should not be weaker than Data Koon Maschenny Zahard improved by Redan. Fought and defeated 3 Soul Merged Hoaqin)

Ran (Name Hunt Station Arc): At least 7-A+, likely higher (Should be comparable to Baam without the Thorn Boost and killed Hesse), High 7-A+ (Fought Arie Inieta. Must be comparable to Lo Po Bia Elaine and Baam with Thorn Boost)

Inieta: High 7-A+ (Fought Koon Ran improved by Redan. Fought Lo Po Bia Elaine in the past, although she lost by lack of knowledge)

Elaine: High 7-A+ (Fought as equal against Baam with Thorn Boost)

Hoaqin (3 Soul Merged): 6-C (After absorbing the other 3 of his souls he became many times more powerful and fought Baam with Power of Souls)

Hoaqin (Normal): At least 7-A+, likely higher (Fought against Baam, should not be much weaker than Data Koon Mashcenny Zahard in Base)

Androssi (Name Hunt Station Arc/Floor of Death Arc/Hidden Floor Arc (Pre-Training)): High 7-A+ (Fought Lo Po Bia Elaine, although she lost only for lack of knowledge of her abilities)

Aguero (Hidden Floor Arc (Post-Training)): At least 7-A+, likely higher (Fought the enemy sworn of Baam, which proved to be comparable to Baam without the Thorn Boost)

You must be wondering, "why is At least 7-A+, likely higher here?" Remember that Redan has been said to increase strength a couple of times, and the minimum for several in multipliers is 3X, ie Base Mashcenny is three times weaker than its Redan version ie Base Maschenny Ap is: 2.89 Gigatons or High 7-A+ and Baam with Thorn Boost should be comparable to it, and Koon Ran Redan must have the same multiplier as the Redan of Mashcenny since they are equal techniques, ie Redan Koon Arn would be 2.8 Gigatons being comparable to Lo Po Bia Elaine who fought the same to Baam with Thorn Boost, and Base Koon Ran should be 3X weaker when not using the Redan, ie by dividing by 3 the AP of Ran in Base would be 963 Megatons or At least 7-A+, likely higher.
 
I still disagree. Firstly, you're using a feat in the Hidden Floor arc to backwards scale to previous arcs when Baam was clearly weaker at those points in the story.

Secondly, the attack being a named attack, while it does normally mean it's stronger, doesn't have to be the case. This could easily be a case of PIS, or the fact that Zahard was not actually trying to kill Baam, as Zahard wanted information from him.
 
What is the problem with the 8.6 Gigatons made for the previous Arcs? For example: Natsu DF and Jellal scales for a talent from Natsu LFDM who only has 3 Arcs later, Post-Dangai Ichigo and Trancendent Aizen scale to the Gremmy meteor or Kenpachi Zaraki Shikai, so ordering the bows will not be a problem.

It's not PIS, Baam literally managed to tanked this attack and soon managed to get up though the body bleeding and still think a Low 7-B tanked a special technique of a causal 6-C should have at least the durability High 7-A to survive, if Zahard had used a normal blow and I would understand as PIS, but in this case he used a special technique and Baam survived, so Baam before training should scale to Base Maschenny, as Zahard praised Baam's attack as opposed to Base Maschenny than Zahard said she was weak in contrast to the Baam attack suggesting by Zahard that Baam with Thorn Boost was stronger than Data Maschenny in Base that has AP of 2.8 Gigatons.
 
RegisNex1232 said:
I don't support backwardsscaling withoutdue cause, which isn't here.
Click to expand...
So you're supporting or not? Zahard praised Baam's attack before training, while Mashcenny who was using her needle was told by Zahard to be weak, this indicates that Baam before training is stronger than Base Mashcenny being High 7-A.
 
And it was not PIS because Baam was praised by Data Zahard and while Base Maschenny was said to be weak by the same, indicating that Baam before training was stronger than Base Maschenny that AP is from High 7-A, is not this proof more than enough? Even more so I find it strange that a Low 7-B can withstand a special technique of a casual 6-C, it's okay that Baam was badly injured, but still to survive the attack of a 6-C you must have at least the High 7-A durability.
 
The best it would scale to is Hidden Floor Arc Baam, but he was objectively weaker in the arcs before, unlike Post-Dangai Ichigo, who even at the point of Gremmy's meteor feat, was one of the strongest characters in the series and had statements to support it. Same for Natsu and Jellal, who were both far stronger than what the series had shown up until that point, and remained that way until later arcs.

I still don't think it should scale as Zahard still wasn't trying to kill him, so he was clearly taking it easy on him. And complimenting his attack is cool, but Zahard casually beat down a higher version of it later on. So the compliment was likely just on being able to use it in the first place, as he seems to have respect for the God of Guardians. Even still, someone complimenting an attack isn't enough to prove that it's a higher tier than what was calculated not even ten chapter earlier.
 
How so does this only scale to Hidden Floor Arc Baam? Baam during the Hell Train Arc to the Hidden Floor Arc were the same and had practiced almost nothing (except the Shinwonryu and his key Power of Souls). Even so, Post-Dangai Ichigo still scale to Gremmy's meteor, which was a feat that was made after 17 Months after the Arc Trancendent Aizen, and DF Natsu and Jellal scale the feat that LFDM Natsu did after Months in Tenrou Island Arc, so that does not change that feat which these characters scale only took place in later arcs.

Well, but Zahard praised Baam's attack (even saying it was weak), which compared to Base Maschenny who was said to be weak by Zahard (and she looks like she had used a special needle technique against him), indicating that Baam before the training was stronger than Base Maschenny this is no longer a valid justification? It's okay that Baam was not able to hurt Zahard, but he was praised, unlike Base Maschenny who was told by Zahard to be weak, indicating that both are comparable or that Baam is stronger. even though Zahard was not willing to kill Baam, it's still difficult for a Low 7-B to survive a special technique of a casual 6-C, and also when Zahard one-shot Redan Maschenny, he was also being casual just as he did against Baam, so we can support further Baam as High 7-A. Although Baam in Base Post-Training was able to withstand more casual Data Zahard attacks and make a cut in it.
 
@Teon

And also if Baam was fainted, immobilized or completely bloody after the attack of Zahard's special technique, I would accept that Baam would remain in the tier that is, since it is difficult for a Low 7-B to survive the special technique of 6-C, but in this case even though Baam after the attack, he could move normally and you saw it in this chapter, and if we do a backscaling from Baam to High 7-A it would not be exaggerated or meaningless, since we have Base Mashcenny as an example of High 7-A and we can scale to Baam being comparable or stronger than her, and you saw that Baam survived and was able to walk normally and carry a person normally.
 
Continuing my comment above.

https://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-2-ep-311/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=392

And this chapter serves to further reinforce the new Tiers I am proposing in the new chapter that came out today, Baam worried that Rak was trying to face Rachel who was joining Hoaqin, but then why would a 6-C worry about 7-C being a threat? This indicates that Baam in Base which is 6-C which is stronger than Redan Mashcenny, after the knowingly recognizes Hoaqin that both are comparable or that Hoaqin is stronger, and it is also a fact that Baam accepted the help of Androssi to fight against Hoaqin and did not refuse, further indicating that Hoaqin is a 6-C and Baam Power of Souls defeated the 3 Soul Merged Hoaqin, so explain to me why Baam that at that time that was a 6-C worried about Rak wanting to face Rachel who was with Hoaqin who is a 7-C and did not turn down Androssi's help? For a 7-C should not pose a threat to a 6-C slightly stronger than a 6-C twice the baseline.
 
First and foremost, this literally doesn't change any of what I said above. Zahard was going easy and didn't want to kill Baam. That's pretty clear cut. Baam was objectively weaker than he was in previous arcs, which is also clear cut. Characters grow stronger the more they fight, it's not always about specific training. Learning new techniques, gaining more experience, gradually increasing one's strength, all of these are things that happen as they climb the tower.

However, they're not the only ones climbing the tower. Hoaqin and Rachel's crew are also climbing the tower. Have they not gotten stronger as well? In addition to the fact that White did reclaim all of his lost souls at some point, and it's entirely possible that some residual power may reside within him.

Lastly, even if you are correct with regards to White, literally no one else would scale as Baam got a HUGE power boost in order to land several attacks on him, and even that didn't kill him. I'm not even sure if it actually rendered him unconscious. It knocked him back enough to allow Baam to save the last person. And afterwards the huge boost left him, as was evident when he need ignition in order to defeat Zahard, and called the two scenes comparable as he was gaining a huge buff to his power.

In the new chapter Androssi was the one who was worried. Baam was ready to charge in and bring hell to Rachel, Yura, White, and whomever else was there. And he seemed confident in doing so, which actually supports the scaling we already have. And the fact that Androssi is about to fight against White, also supports the scaling, though we'll see how the fight goes.
 
Baam, literally changed almost nothing during the previous arcs, he during the Hell Train Arc until the Dallar Arc Show he remained the same, we can not suppose that Baam was trained off the screens, and he in the bow of Name Hunt Station remained the same as his version of the two previous Arches, and Baam in the Floor of Death Arc and Hidden Floor Arc continued the same as their previous Arches versions, and it seems that the only thing he had learned of differently compared to these versions compared to the previous Arches it was the Shinwonryu, you can argue that Baam must have gotten stronger in a month's training with the God of Guardians, but literally the only thing he learned was Shinsoo's control that only the Irregulars can use, rather than training to increase their strength that has trained Baam to learn the control of Shinsoo that Zahard and 10 Great Families Heads have learned in the past.

Do you really think Hoaqin is the kind of person who trains? Hoaqin is very confident and he has practically remained the same since when you sucked 3 souls from his brother, he only doing all the dirty work for Rachel without training anything.

Baam was also concerned about Rak wanting to face Rachel and Hoaqin, meaning Baam is indicating that 3 Soul Merged Hoaqin is comparable to him, and Baam is the kind of person who carries the weight on his back that he does not want for his friends in danger and will do of everything to protect them, and in that case he did not refuse Androssi's help, indicating that he was worried about White being an obstacle, Baam after catching the "power" or the giant energy ball inside him at the beginning of his training in Rice Pot, managed to briefly contented 3 Soul Merged Hoaqin thus justifying his High 7-A with Thorn Boost.

So if Baam refused Androssi's help I would have recognized that Hoaqin posed no threat to Baam, but in that case he accepted Androssi's help by indicating that Baam treats Hoaqin as a person on the same level as him, and you know that Baam is a person who carries the weight on his back alone and wants to protect his friends at any cost, if Hoaqin did not pose a threat to Baam he would not have cared for White, and would do it all alone.
 
I literally said that training is not the only way to get stronger, please reference my previous reply.

The calculations placing Baam at 7-C, High 7-C and Low 7-B beg to differ with Baam not getting any stronger as well.

Rak is objectively weaker than Baam, and Baam is also concerned about his friends. And yes, Baam did accept Androssi's help, and yet he's not the one fighting White. Androssi is. So even with Baam perceiving White as a potential threat, we still have no reliable way of scaling the two unless White defeats Baam or gives him a good fight. I would rather just wait until either the scaling clearly changes, or White's power becomes more obvious. We're attempting to use statements and unquantifiable power boosts to scale, which isn't a good idea. Our best bet is to wait, as, until this chapter, it was pretty clear that White should be below the likes of Baam and Data Zahard.
 
Baam may have accumulated experience in the lengths of the Arches I quoted, but nothing he did or a remarkable training that was quoted off-screen, that Baam must have grown stronger, it's just that he gained more experience over he climbed the Tower, and Baam does not get stronger when learning a new technique, so experience and training for new techniques does not increase Baam's strength, for example what's the difference between the Baall of the Dallar Arc Show and the Name Hunt Station Arc? None, and its Name Hunt Station Arc for the Hidden Floor Arc? None, and we also can not assume that Baam may have gotten stronger off the Arcs screens I quoted, what you're talking about looks more like an assumption that Baam gets stronger by having a new technique or winning a new one experience, and as I mentioned about Shinwonryu training, Baam was not stronger than his version of the Name Hunt Station Arc, he only learned a new Shinsoo technique that only the Irregulars can learn.

There is no calculation placing Baam in 7-C, but a calculation that is almost the baseline of 7-C, we only assume that Baam and Hoaqin are vastly superior to Ran and Anak,

Does not that make sense, because Baam would ask Androssi for help so she could fight a weaker person than he? This does not make sense, and also if White was vastly weaker than Base Baam, he would not have asked for help for Androssi to face him, that means Baam recognizes Hoaqin as a threat even after learning Shinwonryu, Shinsoo Orb and Thorn Ignition, I do not understand how a 6-C a little stronger than a 6-C twice the baseline would ask for help to against a 7-C...
 
Firstly, that's objectively wrong. Characters grow stronger through continuous fights. Even in real life, if a person fought hard everyday, they would gradually grow stronger. So plainly put, Baam has been steadily increasing in strength since his battle with White by virtue of this. That's pretty cut and dry. And, once again, his tier going from 7-C to High 7-C during the Name Hunt arc, ad then to Low 7-B in the beginning of the Hidden FLoor arc literally prove your wrong if the aforementioned logic didn't already do so.

Secondly, Baam didn't ask for help. Androssi said that Baam would need help, and Baam accepted it. Two completely different things. Baam defeating Data Zahard is a rather huge deal, as it's entirely possible that he should be able to defeat lower tier rankers at this point. It's much better to wait and see what the next few chapters bring.

The point I made about White earlier still stands. Like Baam, he's also been through numerous battles since the Dallar arc, gradually gaining strength. And he got stronger after he ate Prince, though that amount is currently unquantifiable.

And, once again, even if White did scale, he would be the only one who would scale.
 
@Teon

And you always say that we can not rely on assumptions, so why Hoaqin and Baam 7-C are too much of the baseline without any basis? The time during the end of the Dallar Show Arc and the beginning of the Name Hunt Station Arc is practically in a few days, and Baam should not have gone from nothing from 7-C to High 7-C, and during 1 month training with the GoG, Baam spent all this time just to learn Shiwnonryu and Shinsoo's special control, he did not train in combat or his techniques during that time, and as Baam from nothing from one Bow to another he can pass High 7-C for a Low 7-B at the end of the Floor of Death Arc and the beginning of Hidden Floor Arc? This does not make sense because in the time difference from one Bow to another was a few minutes, and Baam did not have a match-up with someone during the Floor of Death Arc to be able to get stronger enough to reach the Low 7-B, then Baam during Hell Train Arc to the Hidden Floor Arc, had no training of any relevance to skip from Tier to Tier.

So why did Baam let Androssi go along with him? If Baam did not consider that Hoaqin was a threat he might have simply gone without worrying about Hoaqin, and could simply wipe him out, but that is not the case because Baam, a 6-C would let someone help to fight a 7-C? You know that Baam does his best not to involve them in his own personal affairs as in Rachel's case, and you know that Baam, when he deals with weaker enemies than him, Baam is quite confident that they will not be one threat or could easily beat them, then why would Baam who is currently a 6-C would let someone help him deal with a 7-C? This does not make sense and Baam must recognize that even after learning the Shinwonryu, Shinsoo Orb and Thorn Ignition consider Hoaqin a threat to the point of letting Androssi help him, even if he does not ask, and Baam did not defeat Data Zahard, they both tied, you saw that they both fainted with their strongest attacks, though Zahard only needed to use a Leviathan blow instead of a special technique to draw with Baam's strongest technique, Zahard only said that the victory was Baam because he recognized Baam and gave the artifact that Gustang wanted.

Why would Hoaqin grow stronger by eating Prince's soul? The Prince is not even that strong, and we can not assume without evidence that Hoaqin has been training or stronger since the Dallar Show Arc or that eating souls of weak people makes him stronger, and Hoaqin is confident and quite confident to the point of not training, and the objective of the Rachel group he participates in is to do the tests as soon as possible so Hoaqin would not have time for this, so he must have been with the same level of power in the Dallar Show Arc.

Why only Hoaqin would scale? Baam with the Thorn Boost briefly contented with 3 Soul Merged Hoaqin and should be comparable to Base Mashcenny which is a High 7-A, and this Baam was the same as Kaiser faced, we could scale to Baam (Power of Souls) for defeating this Hoaqin, and also if Baam was really a Low 7-B before training, it was not necessary for Zahard to have blocked that blow from him, he could have simply resisted that attack without any problem, you might even argue that Zhaard was overestimating Baam, but it is not In fact, Zahard had even praised Baaam's coup and blocked it as a sign of respect for Baam's strength so we had an idea that Baam at that time was comparable to Base Maschenny.
 
Firstly, please stop acting as though training is the only way for characters to get stronger. I can tell you from experience as a human that such a statement is objectively false.

Secondly, why are you assuming that, now, when Baam trains to learn a particular technique, that he's gotten no stronger. Is that not still training? And why are you assuming that he spent the entire month training to learn that one technique? And if this technique was so difficult to use, surely he would have had to build up to be able to use it. Or, if he used his power mimicry, he wouldn't had to have been strong enough to actually take the attack. We don't know exactly what kind of training took place, but we do know that he got stronger afterwards based upon the tiers, so clearly he got stronger somehow. You can't simply first say that characters get stronger through training, and then pick and choose when training makes them stronger and when it doesn't, that's not how it works.

Despite Baam agreeing to Androssi's help, they ended up splitting up anyway. If White is big a threat that Baam needs help, then why would they split up? If they were going to help each other fight then they should've stuck together.

Thirdly, did Baam actually really hurt White before he got the souls boost? I don't believe he did (If he did, it would be passive PIS, as Baam was objectively weaker then. Period).

Hoaqin grows stronger by eating souls. That's literally what he does. Even if it's a temporary power boost. It's how he got so strong in the first place. All those souls he ate that were condensed within Anna were fodder compared to Prince.

Lastly, you literally just said that Hoaqin and Baam are Low 7-C through being upscaled from being far stronger than Ran, who is already close to the border. It's not even a 2x increase in power, so it's likely to be fine. But, by all means, if you feel they should be, At least Low 7-C feel free to bring it up in the discussion thread for TOG.

I don't think either one of us are going to agree here, and I'd much rather wait for the new chapter, as well as input from other folk knowledgeable on the verse.
 
@Teon

Experience does not make anyone stronger, it just makes you smarter and helps during various situations.

Why would Baam be stronger when training to learn a technique? He is simply training to learn to control it and realize it, not how to get stronger. You literally know that Baam spent the entire month to learn Shinwonryu, and he did not train anything else, you know that even near the end of 1 month of training, GoG kept telling Baam that this was not yet Shinsoo's control especially indicating that Baam spent a full month training to acquire this special control of Shinsoo, but if we can say that Baam would have been stronger in this training, yet this does not prove that Baam with Thorn Boost during the Dallar Show Arc was briefly fight with 3 Soul Merged Hoaqin thus claiming their High 7-A.

Why then had Baam taken Androssi's help? He knows that Hoaqin is a strong people and that he would disrupt the subject he wants with Rachel, and so let Androssi take care of him because Baam knows that Hoaqin is strong and that he would disrupt his personal affairs with Rachel, and why would a 6-C worry about a 7-C getting in the way? Baam should treat Hoaqin as a person who is not a threat to him even after learning the Shinwonryu, Shinsoo Obr and Thorn Ignition.

I did not say that Baam had hurt that Hoaqin, and I just said that he had briefly fought with him, and a backscaling would not be meaningless since we have a High 7-A character to possibly climb to Baam before the Power of Souls boost and this would not be considered a PIS.

I know that getting stronger by devouring souls is the power of Hoaqin, but we can not assume that one soul would make him have a great boost, and Prince was a weak person and he clearly would not give a big boost to Hoaqin, and remember that Hoaqin was excited after learning that he had Rankers souls in the Room of Souls? This was indicative that depending on how strong the soul he devours he is stronger, and Prince is not strong enough to give a small boost, and Hoaqin was simply hungry and devoured Prince's soul.

Sorry, sometimes I say nonsense. ; (

PS: Do you know that you and I are the most active members of Tower of God? If we wait for more people this subject will only be to end next month, because rarely any members come to talk.

I have a Raw from the next chapter:

https://manhwa-manga.xyz/2018/07/tower-of-god-392-new-hg/

It seems that Yura made Baam in Base (Hidden Floor Arc (Post-Training)) be forced to dodge from her attack although he was on low guard at that time, indicating that Yura is High 7-A at baseline, and almost all characters of the work we know are a little weaker or stronger than her.
 
Okay, Yura being mountain level honestly sounds a bit far fetched to me.

I guess us being very active is true. However, I'd still like to wait for more chapters. Aside from personally not being very fond of this scaling (And I do apologize as without calcs I am hesitant to upgrade characters), I still think it would be inconsistent as Dallar Show Baam is objectively weaker than Hidden Floor Arc Baam.

Secondly, we do know that during his training with the God of Guardians, Baam acquired his black hole sphere technique. What we don't know, is exactly what kind of training he went through. When he learned shinsoo orb, did he not get stronger? We objectively know that he did, so why would it be so different when he learned shinsoo black hole? That would simply be inconsistent.

I'll also go back and find where Baam contended with three souls merged White, as if he did, I would still believe such to be an outlier, not matter how brief it was, for our current scaling makes logical sense.
 
@Teon

I mean, to make Baam that is a 6-C if dodge of an attack has to at least be a High 7-A (although Baam was of low guard at the moment), even if it is a baseline Hgh 7-A.

Baam Dallar Arc Show was not much weaker than Hidden Floor Arc Baam, he just had to wake up the Thorn Boost and he at least would be a bit weaker, the only difference they have, are experience and new powers (I am the one who really should apologize because it makes sense for Baam for 1 year to have become strong enough to be vastly stronger than Ran with Redan and Hoaqin without the three souls scale for him).

This is a different case, since Baam's training was not only to make him learn the Shinsoo Orb, but it was a training in general, because Baam had to stay strong to fight Zahard and a new technique would still not be enough. In the case of Baam having learned the Shinwonryu, we clearly realized that Baam was focusing on learning Shinsoo's special control of the Irregulars, and GoG even quoted near the end of the training that Baam still did not understand how to do it right, indicating that Baam was focused on learning the Shinwornyu and not how to get stronger, and if we say that he had gotten stronger, it does not change that brevemento disputed with Hoaqin, and he did it after Hoaqin absorbed the alams of his three brothers and during the test Last

It would not be a meaningless and inconsistent scaling as we have an example of a High 7-A character in the play, which is Mashcenny's Base Data and we can use it in comparison with other characters to claim the High 7-A for some characters, and we can use the Redan multiplier so we can have some 7-A+ characters.
 
It's inconsistent in terms of how the characters have gotten stronger so far. Baam has steadily gotten stronger over time, that much should be just pure fact. He was stronger when he fought Kaiser than when he fought White, and he's been gaining strength since then. I never said it was something huge, only that, as he climbs the tower, he's been steadily increasing in strength. This kind of backscaling is tricky for that reason alone.

We say Baam's training with the Shinsoo orb. Data Khun wanted Baam to primarily focus on using the orb, and he forced him to use only the orb in combat. His combat had a clear focal point, same as his training with the black hole sphere. They are not all that different. One month time skips essentially, where Baam trains in a new technique and gets stronger. He came to the god of guardians to learn how to be a god, it's one of the most iconic moments in the series. Of course he's going to get stronger through training with him. To say otherwise contradicts the majority of what you've said thus far.

Also, I didn't say experience itself made one stronger. Continuous fights do. Being placed in battle after battle after battle will make one stronger. Once again, even for humans, this is something that happens.

Once again, I still think it's best that we wait for the next few chapters. See what happens with regards to White.
 
Would not it be inconsistent because the, like the Baam who fought Kaiser was stronger than the Baam who fought with Hoaqin? The difference between these two Arcs was little time for Baam to jump from 7-C to High 7-C without any relevant training like the GoG and Data Eduan was quoted, for example from another work like Fairy Tail: Max Alors, Cana and Levy are scaled to be stronger or comparable to Precht, ie it is not strange to assume that Yura is a High 7-A per case of the examples I have shown, and this is an example of backscaling and why it would not work with ToG with the characters: Hoaqin, Kaiser, Inieta, Ran, Aguero, Androssi and Baam in the previous Arcs?

It makes sense, but does not change the fact that Baam with Thorn Boost had briefly fought with Hoaqin after absorbing the three souls of his brothers and during the end of the Dallar Show Arc, thus being able to make Baam with Thorn Boost be High 7-A being comparable the Base Maschenny and Ran with Redan being comparable to Baam with Thorn Boost, and so we can use the Redan multipliers to scale some characters, because Inieta was able to fight with Ran with Redan, and the Redan multiplier is 3X so we can assume that Base Ran would be 3X weaker than its Redan version, thus placing its Base as 7-A+.

Well, I mean, as an example what is the difference between the Baam in the Floor of Death Arc and Hidden Floor Arc? None because Baam had no fight with anyone relevant or to jump from High 7-C to Low 7-B within minutes of difference between these two Arches.

Okay, but I'll tell you a little spoilers from the chapter 393: Beta and Androssi can not make at least a small scratch on 3 Soul Merged Hoaqin.

PS: But speaking of it, I realized that almost all of the members of Tower of God are inactive, that means that it depends on the two of us or expect others opinions, that matter will only end in the next month.
 
I am unsubscribing to this thread. Send me a message when you have reached a conclusion.
 
And another example of backscaling that worked was Fairy Tail: Alvarez's Soldiers can put a City level+ stronger than 61 Megatons on the defensive or some of the soldiers can briefly compete with the Natsu City level+, but they are Low 7-B for scaling to be stronger than Prechet, this is an example of backscaling that worked and why can not we do the same with ToG? Since Baam with Thorn Boost also managed to briefly contented with 3 Soul Merged Hoaqin that if we accept that scale I proposed, then he Baam with Thorn Boost should be High 7-A+ and Baam without the Thorn Boost being an At least 7-A+, likely higher being comparable to Ran Base that if we use the Redan multiplier as an example it would be 3X weaker than its Redan version ie Base Ran would be 963 Megatons, which is comparable to Arie Inieta who fought against Kaiser in the past and only lost for lack of knowledge of her abilities and Androssi had the same case as Inieta for also losing for lack of knowledge.

And do not use PIS or is inconsistent as a way to not make that backscaling that did seem meaningless since the backscaling of the Alvarez Soldiers seems to be more meaningless than the backscaling I'm doing and was accepted and why could not that be accepted?

Now I agree that Baam Name Hunt Station is inferior to Baam Floor of Death Arc but its version of Hell Train Arc until Name Hunt Station does not hear relevant training for Baam to skip Tier, so I proposed that:

Baam (Hell Train Arc/Dallar Show Arc/Name Hunt Station Arc) were mixed because Baam had no relevant training or a relevant boost to jump from 7-C to High 7-C.

Baam (Floor of Death Arc/Hidden Floor Arc) will be merged because Baam also did not fight a relevant enemy to jump from High 7-C to Low 7-B.
 
I'm back.

So, I just reread the chapter when Baam "contended" with White post absorbing the three souls.

Baam actually didn't hurt White in the slightest during their brief encounter. He kinda just casually brushed off his attacks, Baam using his superior AoE as an opportunity to speed down to save Arkraptor. And then, right when White started to take things seriously as he was upset at Baam for violating the rules of the tower as he knows it, Anna steps in, stops the attack, and subsequently grants Baam her power.

This whole sequence kinda disrupts the scaling, as Baam actually wasn't able to contend with Hoaqin during their exceedingly brief encounter. Like, their encounter was literally like two or three attacks, all of which did nothing to Hoaqin, as he kinda, seemingly casually, cut through Baam's attacks.
 
Well, it was not saying that in order to contented a person it is necessary to hurt him but rather to be able to dispute a little with him in a small exchange of blows, for example: Natsu vs Erza, Natsu had simply exchanged 3 or 4 blows with Erza and what briefly contented, an exchange of a few blows, even though Baam was able to somewhat surprise the 3 Soul Merged Hoaqin after Baam had received the Thorn Boost saying that Baam had grown stronger, indicating that he recognizes the power of Baam, but that still was not strong enough to fight him without the Power of Souls.
 
Nothing of that sort really happened though. Baam threw out one or two attacks to prevent Hoaqin from stopping his descent. Hoaqin, rather simply, brushed aside the attacks, but was too late to be able to stop Baam from rescuing Arkraptor. The difference between here and what happened in fairy tail, is that Erza was genuinely giving it a good try. Hoaqin was honestly just toying around, going down just to spite Baam. He didn't take things seriously until he saw how Baam violated his personal beliefs with regards to the tower.

I literally reread the chapter right before I typed that. It wasn't really an exchange, Baam just tossed something out with the intent to save Arkraptor. You can clearly see that dispersing the attack actually required not much effort on White's part, and that he's not injured at all. It's nowhere near enough to say that Baam, "Contended with him" there.

Though, seeing as how this is true, we may need to change Baam's tier and justification for that point.

Also, literally right after this fight, Baam has a two day crash training course with the god of guardians. So he actually does train, and it's actually a hint to his horned form. Khun even remarks that Baam seems a bit different afterwards, and Baam himself says that he is tired, presumably from his training.
 
(Wait a bit because I'm playing Bleach Brave Souls Co-op)

You have forgotten that in one of the previous chapters Baam with Thorn Boost threw Hoaqin away made him speak "Ugh" as a sign that Baam briefly became strong enough to play Hoaqin away with his punch.

I was talking about Chapter 185, not Chapter 192.

Are you talking about which version of Baam?

I think a two-day training would not be enough to jump from 7-C to High 7-C, because even Aguero, who was watching the fight closely, did not feel the same pressure Hoaqin could do during the Dallar Show Arc, indicating that Kaiser is weaker than 3 Soul Merged Hoaqin, and he even cites that algae is missing to compare Kaiser with 3 Soul Merged Hoaqin. The Horned Form we call is the "True Self" that the GoG quotes several times for Baam?

Well I think we should change the name Horned Form to True Self Mode because it seems to make more sense because Baam had finally found his true self and gotten stronger.
 
Chapter 185? I'll have to take a look.

We can't say how strong a character will get. Ageha Yoshina trained for four days and leapt from an at least 8-C character (lack of good feats throughout the series) to a small country level one. The point is that he trained, and trained to the point of exhaustions as was evident by how tired he was. The God of Guardians even said that he would make it a crash course as Baam didn't have much time. You can't simply ignore this blatant piece of evidence simply because you think two days isn't enough time for a tier jump. That's not for neither you nor myself to decide. He got stronger, plain as day.

Perhaps. I think we should keep it as is until we get a better name for it.

Also, how good is that game?
 
Well, but that does not change the fact that Aguero and Baam did not feel the same sense of danger when they faced 3 Soul Merged Hoaqin when Baam was fighting with Kaiser, indicating that Kaiser is weaker than 3 Soul Merged Hoaqin, and that even if Baam got stronger during those two days I still bet that would not be enough to overcome the boost of the souls that Baam received to defeat 3 Soul Merged Hoaqin.

It is a great game, as long as you have more than 3 or 4 GB on your cellphone or tablet to get to play without the game leaving alone (my goal in this game was to get Trancendent Aizen or Kenpachi Zaraki Shikai...)

Horned Form does not seem an appropriate name since Baam clearly had discovered his True Self and gained his powers to fight on an equal against Data Zahard.
 
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