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Boruto Canon Discussion Thread v2

TheFinalOrder

TheFinalOrder

4,487
732
Ok.....so like the first thread, this has to be dealt with. HOPEFULLY, this one isn't forgotten. Should be linked to the verse page if you ask me...

So, Boruto is a complicated series interms of what's canon and what's not canon.

We have several different sources retelling the same events, in different fashions, adding stuff, and changing scenarios.

  • Anime
  • Manga
  • Novels
  • Movie
Each follows the same outline for the story, but does things slightly different in the details and such. Thus, all of these sources resemble that of alternate timelines as opposed to anything else.

What's 100% Canon?

  • At the very least, we know the Boruto's Academy Arcs (Nue Arc - Graduation) and the Manga (Written by Kodachi, Supervised by Kishimoto) are 100% Canon.
Everything else is up for debate, but here is the issue:

  • The Anime Post Graduation goes into filler (The Arcs between the Graduation and Momoshiki arc are not confirmed to be Canon by any other source except by Shueisha's timeline, iirc. Ontop of this, the Anime Changes entire scenarios and contradicts the Manga in certain aspects of arcs that are supposed to be adaptations of Manga arcs, thus the two cannot be canon. (NOTE: I understand using certain parts of the anime in calcs for feats that are not calcable by themselves in the manga so long as it has been screened and adequetly debated on and deemed acceptable on a case by case basis, but generally the manga should be the sole source such things, no matter what)
  • The Novels contradict the Anime by adding scenarios to them, not present in the Anime, such as the Momoshiki Star/Planet shenanigans.
  • The Movie has long been retconned by all other sources.
I believe it would be best to keep all of them separate. Let what we consider Canon be the Manga and Academy arcs only. It's better if we have a separate pages for characters also, like for example:

  • Momoshiki (Movie)
  • Momoshiki (Novel)
  • Momoshiki (Anime)
  • Momoshiki (Manga)
And the Manga Momoshiki would be Canon Momoshiki. This way feats for the same character that happens in one of the other mediums can be accepted as it's not canon and still used in Verses Debates.

Also, it's best to define what we consider canon to be. Unlike Marvel and DC, Mangaka still own rights to their characters and stories. So Shueisha doesn't own a character in full. Thus timelines and content made by Shueisha alone shouldn't automatically be considered canon.

That's why the George Lucas / Disney thing isn't comparable. Disney bought Star Wars from him. He nolonger owns any rights to the Star Wars franchise.
 
Yeah I agree with Frantzy. Also this would be much more controversial than adding a DBS Manga key for Goku. I'm thinking it'd be better to make a staff thread.
 
Maybe a staff thread would be a good idea. They can slso decide to ban upgrading Naruto characters based on novels and such without clear proof of canon.
 
I agree with Non Canon Keys. We already have Manga Momoshiki and Movie Momoshiki

We got Light Novel Kars as well and I think we got Light Vorl Dio

Nothing can be said about having Light Novels keys is wrong at al when we already have them because of how different they are to the main canon
 
I agree with having Momoshiki have his feats from the novels since they were never contradicted in manga, as I said in the other thread:

I say that whatever is not contradited and literally not explained in the manga is obviously canon. Big one being the srrival of momoshiki, kinshiki and urashiki. And what was happening before it.
 
Also DBS and Boruto can not be compared. DBS balantly has completely different things that happen. While the manga just balantly leaves things out.
 
How are they not contradicted tho when we don't see it happen in the anime or manga. Really wanna know unless I wasn't paying attention to the episode
 
AstralKing7 said:
How are they not contradicted tho when we don't see it happen in the anime or manga. Really wanna know unless I wasn't paying attention to the episode
Click to expand...
It not happening does not mean it is contradicted. For example. We are never showed where Momoshiki come from in the manga. It is filled in by the anime and novels. The novels coincide with the anime where it shows the world that Momoshiki destroyed with the dying Sun. Then the anime has changed Momoshiki's movie look to match the manga.
 
Yeah they are the same honestly,your arguing both manga and anime are canon.

DBS is the same case with both materials being technically canon and both manga variants are once a month releases lol.Boruto is worst since yall literally have like 5 different sources for 1 arc lol..
 
Okay then ƒæî but still did the Novel day that Momoshiki had destroyed the sun while he was eating the fruit or before he ate it. If it's before we don't see that in the anime and can't use it because it came after the anime. If we assume it was while he was eating the fruit it makes sense for that large celestial body to be in the atmosphere that close which means that was the Sun that got destroyed from the supernova that destroyed the surface of the planet
 
Frantzy12 said:
Yeah they are the same honestly,your arguing both manga and anime are canon.
DBS is the same case with both materials being technically canon and both manga variants are once a month releases lol.Boruto is worst since yall literally have like 5 different sources for 1 arc lol..
Click to expand...
Yes, I am arguing that because they are?

Yeah and 2 of them we know is definitely not canon(the movie and the initial novel). While the manga which the anime is following while adding extra details to make things make sense. And the novel that is supplementary to the anime and gives us descriptions. They all tell the exact same story totally different to DBS and its manga situation where the story is not the same at all.
 
Uhh the anime is canon to the manga we just don't use the chunin exams. You were even on the thread a couple of days ago where it was said ƒÿò
 
AstralKing7 said:
Okay then ƒæî but still did the Novel day that Momoshiki had destroyed the sun while he was eating the fruit or before he ate it. If it's before we don't see that in the anime and can't use it because it came after the anime. If we assume it was while he was eating the fruit it makes sense for that large celestial body to be in the atmosphere that close which means that was the Sun that got destroyed from the supernova that destroyed the surface of the planet
Click to expand...
Nope it is before he eats it and we do see it in the anime:

https://imgur.com/QSnb8py
 
DBS anime and manga are obviously not canon to each other because of the hugely freaking changes. The manga may been said to be canon but to the viewers it's not because of all the changes
 
Are we sure we can just use that light shining as to say that is the sun being extinguished. Really need to know if that can be acceptable @Rocker
 
Oh yeah I agree know but just so happens it that we don't get it passed we should just ask for a Movie Light Novel key because of momoshikis abilties and he is so different
 
Field
Everything before the anime gets to chapter 1 is definitely canon~
"The Novels contradict the Anime by adding scenarios to them, not present in the Anime, such as the Momoshiki Star/Planet shenanigans."

Not really contradicting, it's merely expanding upon the scenes, that's what the anime and novels are used for.
 
^ after reading deeper into the context of the novel where Momoshiki used the sun and in the anime we see the sun looks extinguished and the planet looks scorched and dead with no life, it's safe to say it happened. We don't gotta bring up if the anime is canon to the manga cause we know it is and we don't use the chunin exams at all
 
I don't really know about this star shenanigans, but stuff that doesn't blatantly contradict what we're shown in the manga - like Momoshiki draining the energy from the dimension he made and beyond - should be considered, in my opinion.
 
Like I said in the other thread, Ikemoto was the person Kishimoto personally picked to continue his story, not Ukyō Kodachi. Kodachi involvement was in large part, due to Shueisha.

Ikemoto worked with Kishimoto for 15 years, which is why Kishimoto didn't hesitate to pass his entire life work to him. Ikemoto even added in the link above, that Kishimoto is essentially like a family to him.

So, the fact Ikemoto illustrates the novel implies he acknowledges the contents, which makes it canon.

The novel hasn't contradicted the movie, not sure where OP got his idea. At ending of Nue arc, the anime depicted Momoshiki in unknown dimension. As I said at precedent, the impression was that he Momoshiki was probably in the Otsutsuki dimension. However, the novel revealed it was an unknown world he destroyed.

This revelation mirrored the anime depiction of the event. The anime depicted a planet in ruins, cosmic rubbles filling the space above, and huge star that's a reminiscent of dying star after a supernova. This creates a relationship between the anime, and the novel. The novel only differs because it's more detailed.

Furthermore, there are several novels being released every quarter of a year. Last month, several novels were released which was based on Sasuke and Naruto lives as father. There are also upcoming novels to be released next month, or so. Novels are now part of Boruto canonical makeup.

Are we going to ignore all these novels, because it's not written by Ukyō Kodachi or because it's not the Manga?

It should be noted the recent novels was illustrated by Kishimoto. They presented feats such as Sasuke using ice released to freeze a railcar after an explosion was observed in one of its compartment.

In Sasuke Shinden, Sarada was stated to awaken the three-tomoe Sharingan. The Manga has yet to reveal this, partly because it was holding out on the novels. In fact, Sarada hasn't used her Sharingan since the Momoshiki invasion in the Manga. What this proves is that the Manga obviates certain events for other aspects of Boruto to present, case in point; nue incident, mist arc and Sasuke Shinden (not the teenage one, this particular one was released last month).

To round this up, the novels is just as canon as the Manga. This is no longer Kishimoto's Manga, who opted to passed the touch to several people because he felt he couldn't outdo himself. Even the Yamashita, the director of Boruto movie in an interview, stated he wanted to add more things in the movie, but couldn't due to time constraints, and Kishimoto didn't even object this. That says a lot about the canonical spectrum of Boruto. The movie director, not writer wanted to change things, and Kishimoto said okay.

The point of this? The same person is now the director of Boruto Naruto Next Generation. The fact his input could have supercede the writer of Boruto movie (Ukyō Kodachi) shows, Ukyō Kodachi isn't even the supreme author of Boruto franchise. It also makes the anime canon since it's being directed by Yamashita, and by extension most of the events stems from the idea. The entire Momoshiki arc on the anime, and his fleshed out character is because of him, which he wanted to do on the movie, but couldn't because of time constraints. Logically, the scene of Momoshiki siting on the planet of unknown world is likely his idea, since it's part of fleshing out his character.

To be comprehensive, these are the important conclusions conceived;

Ukyō Kodachi involvement isn't of utmost value, stop citing him as the sole condition to make a material canon. He writes the Manga, yes, but that doesn't mean anything he's not involve is non-canon. His inputs can be replaced.

The anime is canon because it's directed by Yamashita. I'll maintain my initial stance it's an independent canon considering Yamashita was entrusted by Kishimoto to direct the anime.

The novels are canon, particularly Boruto 3 shinobi no yoru, which is based on the anime and illustrated by Ikemoto.
 
I don't think we are allowed to create different profiles for the same characters only because these "timelines" slightly differs from each other.

It is better to stick with composite manga/anime imo,they only contradict each other in very small aspects (Like the fight with Gaara's son,forgot his name,and the fact that Gaara arrived to Konoha later,without his son),in general they both go in the same way.

And I don't think it is bad to use novels in certain ways,for example for the moments that were not shown in the manga and anime and don't contradict each other,just to fill the "empty parts".
 
That's why the George Lucas / Disney thing isn't comparable. Disney bought Star Wars from him.

He 'nolonger' owns any rights to the Star Wars franchise

I know you obviously talking about me and taking what I said out of context

1. I have never said any of the Boruto Novels are canon.

2. I said the Shinden Novels are Canon, those are Naruto, not Boruto

3. im not going to over this time and time again, as I've constantly shown proof.

as for Disney thing. it still holds true, this shows you stubbornness to accept anything as canon outside of the author outrighting stated this is canon which 99.9 percent never done.

the moment Kishi pitches his idea of Naruto and it get's published it is owned by Shueisha.

Kishi cant take Naruto and get it published elsewhere. it's owned by Shueisha.

same way how Hideki Kamiya cant takes the DMC franchise and get it published somewhere else. and also why DMC 5 isn't now canon because Hideki isn't involved with it.

unless Kishimoto solely owns the rights to Naruto and self publishes it, Shueisha has just as much a say on it as him.

It's Obvious we cant see eye to eye so this will be the last time I address this in any current or future thread.

as for the rest of the thread

regardless of your feelings.

The Manga takes priority and is the Official continuation of Naruto while the anime is simply an adaption that adds stuff between arcs to make a larger cohesive story, whether this better or not it doesn't matter as it is at the end of the day an adaption.

as for the Momoshiki star thing

that comes from the Boruto movie novelization ... meaning it's canon to the movie which in itself has been retconned, making it completely moot.
 
Knightofannihilation666 said:
Yeah I agree with Frantzy. Also this would be much more controversial than adding a DBS Manga key for Goku. I'm thinking it'd be better to make a staff thread.
Click to expand...
This^^ Boruto shouldn't pretty as a special case. No composite anime/manga or non canon keys. Stick with the manga only!
 
We don't really need novel keys or whatever. Devoyant posted something on why novels can be used, and an example that doesn't contradict anime and manga stuff. I'm talking about this:

This revelation mirrored the anime depiction of the event. The anime depicted a planet in ruins, cosmic rubbles filling the space above, and huge star that's a reminiscent of dying star after a supernova. This creates a relationship between the anime, and the novel. The novel only differs because it's more detailed.

We should focus on his points, rather than talking about non-canon keys as if he has been debunked already.
 
Both the academy days series and the new shinden series of novels are canon. There's no way to disprove this. The anime leaves out much detail, that's why the novels are there. So it should be clear that the academy days series covered the exact same material the anime did leading up to the exams. The novels in this series each dropped roughly a mouth after the anime entered a new arc. They are canon. Not a separate canon, not a one shot, they are reveant to the anime's story. The main story.

I misspoke in the previous post when I said kishimoto passed the torch to kodachi. He passed it to Ikemoto, I was just typing to fast to catch my mistake. Ikemoto' stamp on boruto related content is the same as kishimoto' on Naruto related content. I dont get how that isn't known by now.

As I said earlier, the boruto movie-novel has part of it adapted into the current anime. Most notably is Sasuke' entire interaction while revisiting kaguya' ice demension meeting kinshiki and momoshiki. If you read this part of the novel, you would instantly recognize that the anime simply attched visuals to those events. Also there are instances of the anime reusing the movies animations, often without making much changes. Again we know the movie has been largely retconned, but aspects remain part fin the official story.
 
yeah after talking with ROcker i can now understand why the novel can be used and why it helps the anime.


Also if non canon keys have been debunked then what are we gonna do with Momoshiki's profile lol??
 
i actually believe the new SHinden novels are canon as well because of the same reason as the Boruto novel which we are talkin about how it dipicts moments in the anime with logiacl reasoning. like @Hag said the novels filling the details left out by the anime and manga
 
As for any possible Star level discussion regardless of what comes out of this thread, I think we should wait for the next databook before doing anything. If Momoshiki created the dimension with a star, and if he can really destroy a star, the Kishi I know won't hesitate to slap it into our faces. I mean, he did it for Kaguya...

Granted, he's likely not going to write it this time, but we should still wait for the next databook release.
 
when is the next DB released. Need that Jougan discritption lol since its in teh same Light Novel as the star feat. Who would have thought the is was the same novel i was talking about days ago that told us a little about the Jougan lol
 
@Shadow

You really need to read the last half of my post again. Abd no, I really didn't take what you said out of context. You'd know that if you payed attention to my post.

__________________

I don't understand the logic here to be honest...

You guys clearly know through reading and seeing with your own eyes, that the Both the Anime and the Novels, don't infact follow the Manga. I keep on explaining that they're following the outline of Boruto's story, but doing things their own way whether it's changing things to happen differently or adding things that didn't happen.

There really feels like there is this "Obsessive" need to have the feats from these other sources be considered canon to which the blatant changing and adding of content that did not happen in the original material is ignored or pushed as Expanded Material of stuff not shown in the Manga or Anime in favor of getting what looks cool or sounds awesome accepted as canon and I just can't understand that train of thought.

We have terms like:

  • Canon
  • Non-Canon
  • Filler
To categorize these things yet it seems most of you simply look at this material and refuse to consider ANY of it less than canon. That's how I feel at least, looking at all of these debates and conversations....it's turning Boruto's story into nothing but a convoluted mess, like where do you draw the line?

If a Novel comes out Tomorrow, adding things to the story that's not in the Novel, Anime or Manga, is that going to be considered as Canon? What about after that if ANOTHER comes out adding stuff? And another one? And another one? And another one?

Is your answers going to be "Well, it's supplimental material to Novels and/or Anime, so it's canon?"

Come on....

I believe the problem stems from Not having a set standard for what canon is to be considered.

______________________________

1.) The Anime

  • The only thing from the anime stated by Kodachi and Kishi, etc. That is to be taken as "Canon" is the Academy Arc, which is the Nue Arc - Graduation. Nothing else....
  • The only reason the Momoshiki arc is being continuously debated is because Yamashita, the Boruto series Director said they'd be using Kishi's full script from the movie in the arc. The only problem is, we as the audience don't know what dialogue or scenes in the Anime, are actually from Kishi's Script and not Original content from Studio Periot. Tge only thing we know for sure, is that Kishi wanted Toneri in the movie and had planned for Urashiki to be apart of the film. To what extent or capacity is unknown.
2.) The Boruto Novels of the Anime

  • This is quite simple. Neither Kishi or Kodachi has anything to do with the Novels. There is no statement of supervision nor endorsement from them about the Novels. The only endorsement comes from Shueisha, and even then, Shueisha doesn't own the story or characters in full, so they alone can't decide something is canon or not. Ikemoto is the only one who has anything to do with the novel, and he's only the illistrator.
So...the Novels are not canon, period. The Anime is only canon in part via the Academy arcs. Kishi and Kodachi have ONLY made statements regarding the ACADEMY ARC not the anime in full. Even then, Kishi is said to have stated the MANGA is the official continuation of his story and he heavily supervises it according to Ikemoto. This alone puts the anime using his old script into question as being the editor/supervisory, you'd expect the Manga to resemble the anime more than in outline fashion.

So the biggest question is, what are our standards for deciding canon? Just because story elements by a studio may not contradict a story (And yes, the Anime arc of Momoshiki does contradict the Manga), doesn't make their additions outside of the Original Source Material, canon!
 
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